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Remembrance Day – Remember who to blame!

By John Hargreaves - 17 November 2014 46

remembrance-poppy-161114

Each ANZAC Day and Remembrance Day, I, like so many others, pay my heartfelt respect to the fallen and to the soldiers who survived. We think of their families and we are sad.

We are sad because the loss of life is usually futile. The lives of our soldiers, naval personnel and air force members have been lost in wars light years away, in defence of a policy which is at times incomprehensive.

I don’t buy the forward defence theory. I did in 1969 when told about the Red Peril coming down the Indo-China Peninsular. I did when I volunteered to do two years National Service because my number didn’t come up. I did when I knew that there was a good chance I would go to Vietnam and be asked to kill people.

I was fooled like so many others.

The bit that got my goat lately was John Howard at the Remembrance Day ceremony. He said: “let us remember that [our servicemen and women] stand on the shoulders of their Anzac forebears and they carry in their mission the same values of this country as did their forebears.”

Yeah? What values were those precisely?

In 1914, Australia was 13 years old. The old colonial mentality had not been replaced with any sense of oneness as a nation. We were still British! They sent our soldiers to fight the British War, under British commanders in British determined battlegrounds turned into mass graves!

Where was any threat to Australia which required that immense loss of life? Nowhere!

The blokes who died at Gallipoli didn’t die for Australia. They died for Britain. That they died at all is a crime. Brave they were, heroes they were, unnecessary victims of a polity of the time they were!

So, fast forward to the Middle East conflicts of recent times and the current War. The same John Howard sent our guys off to the Middle East to fix that “weapons of mass destruction” problem. Along with Blair and Bush, he should face a war crimes tribunal.

There were no weapons of mass destruction (and they knew it), there was no threat to Australia (and we all know it) and we saw our kids killed. For what?

Tony Abbott has done it again. He has started the Vietnam process all over again.

The process for Vietnam was to send advisors (the AATTV) in to “assist and train” the good guys to fight the bad guys. Then we sent in more SAS troops. Then we sent in battalions. Then we started the body count.

For what? Where was the threat to Australia before Mr Abbott aligned himself with the US? We were not in the frame. We were too small to worry about. Not now we ain’t!

In case people accuse me of being unpatriotic, I contend that when a real time threat to Australia is present, no-one here will baulk at doing his or her bit. But I, like so many others, am sick of seeing our kids killed in wars which represent no threat to our home soil, which have nothing to do with us, nothing for us to gain, and at the end of the day actually achieved nothing positive for the people there.

What was gained in WWI? It was an armistice? Political borders are still contested today and the result spawned the Second World War.

The Korean War had nothing to do with us, is not over either (again an armistice) and is a hotbed of conflict.
Vietnam was a disaster! And again, none of our business.

Afghanistan and Iraq were issues of our own making and we are making it worse.

The Middle East is a world away. It is horrible for those there. But why do we have to be deputy sheriffs? Where is the South American contingent? Where is the African contingent? Where is Asian contingent? Where is the eastern European contingent?

As we often say when we face adversity? Why me? Indeed, why us? And on top of that, we send the asylum seekers from that very region on to an unknown fate in a hostile country. We helped create the need for asylum then we turn out backs.

Good on you, Mr Abbott. Just like Menzies and Howard, you perpetuate the myth that we need to sacrifice our young for the good of what? The world? Democracy? Freedom?

Yeah right!

What’s Your opinion?


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46 Responses to
Remembrance Day – Remember who to blame!
magiccar9 1:54 pm 17 Nov 14

ScienceRules said :

magiccar9 said :

John you should be ashamed to merge these topics – ala Lambie recently. Not to mention the disgusting title of the article.

Remembrance Day is a sacred day to remember those who have fallen, not to bang your own political agenda and opinion.

This response is exactly what is wrong with they way we remember the wars we have fought in. Any sort of critical commentary or questioning the endless and pointless bloodshed is swatted down as “disrespectful”.

I don’t think it is disrespectful to question why our young people and national treasury have been wasted in these futile and pointless conflicts. We send them into danger, destroy their bodies and minds and then all but ignore them when they return, probably because it might just make us question how easily we send our kids to fight at the behest of those more powerful than us.

The current manufactured nonsense in the middle east has only made us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, not safer. It’s a complete fiction to say that our soldiers (or anyone elses for that matter) are “fighting for our freedoms”.

Given the history laid out in the original post and the venom addressed to John for even having the temerity to bring it up, I can’t see the body count dropping any time soon.

I’m not saying the issue shouldn’t be discussed, what I am saying is that Remembrance Day (or anything associated to it) is NOT the time to do it.

What John is doing here is even worse because (as others have pointed out) he merely uses this site to tout his own political agenda and spout off about his oppositions while trying to disguise it as a piece about ‘remembering’.

dungfungus 1:46 pm 17 Nov 14

Canberroid said :

dungfungus said :

JC said :

neanderthalsis said :

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by.

I must have missed these attacks in western countries. Care to set me right by providing a few links?

The two coppers that were stabbed in Melbourne?
Surely you are not seriously requiring links for that.

That is a good reason to spend money locally on social and mental health services, not on a war in the middle east. Terrorists are the new Communists – an excuse for the government to use fear to wield power as the “protectors”, and the media to sensationalise the perceived threat to draw eyeballs. The real threats to our country are much more difficult to use for political point scoring.

“Terrorists are the new Communists”
Absolute rubbish!
I have a relative who is a communist and he doesn’t behead people or mutter about paradise and virgins while trying on his new suicide bomb vest.
These so called “home grown terrorists” have been raised in an environment to make them the way they are. The things they aspire to may be repugnant to us but to them it is normal behaviour.
The only way to change this is a bullet or if you want to waste money on mental health services for them then a frontal lobotomy may be an acceptable outcome.

StanTheMan 1:38 pm 17 Nov 14

Simple.

Edmund Burke — ‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing.’

jett18 1:35 pm 17 Nov 14

Irrespective of what our personal opinions are regarding why these wars / conflicts occurred and what was achieved, the fact of the matter is that Remembrance Day is set to remember those who lost their lives doing what was thought right at the time.

No matter what the circumstances that people are thrust into military conflict or under what guise, they deserve our respect for (if nothing else), putting their lives on the line.

Personally, I do not necessarily support any military action in recent history– and that is my choice, my personal opinion and one that I do not speak openly about with others out of respect to those who are currently serving– however, I will always support the brave personnel who deploy to areas that are in crisis– because I am respectful towards others choices and / or situations.

Conversely, John Hargreaves appears not to be either respectful of those who have served OR those who have lost loved ones due to conflict.
Shame. On. You.

Canberroid 1:17 pm 17 Nov 14

dungfungus said :

JC said :

neanderthalsis said :

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by.

I must have missed these attacks in western countries. Care to set me right by providing a few links?

The two coppers that were stabbed in Melbourne?
Surely you are not seriously requiring links for that.

That is a good reason to spend money locally on social and mental health services, not on a war in the middle east. Terrorists are the new Communists – an excuse for the government to use fear to wield power as the “protectors”, and the media to sensationalise the perceived threat to draw eyeballs. The real threats to our country are much more difficult to use for political point scoring.

dungfungus 12:42 pm 17 Nov 14

JC said :

neanderthalsis said :

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by.

I must have missed these attacks in western countries. Care to set me right by providing a few links?

The two coppers that were stabbed in Melbourne?
Surely you are not seriously requiring links for that.

ScienceRules 11:40 am 17 Nov 14

magiccar9 said :

John you should be ashamed to merge these topics – ala Lambie recently. Not to mention the disgusting title of the article.

Remembrance Day is a sacred day to remember those who have fallen, not to bang your own political agenda and opinion.

This response is exactly what is wrong with they way we remember the wars we have fought in. Any sort of critical commentary or questioning the endless and pointless bloodshed is swatted down as “disrespectful”.

I don’t think it is disrespectful to question why our young people and national treasury have been wasted in these futile and pointless conflicts. We send them into danger, destroy their bodies and minds and then all but ignore them when they return, probably because it might just make us question how easily we send our kids to fight at the behest of those more powerful than us.

The current manufactured nonsense in the middle east has only made us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks, not safer. It’s a complete fiction to say that our soldiers (or anyone elses for that matter) are “fighting for our freedoms”.

Given the history laid out in the original post and the venom addressed to John for even having the temerity to bring it up, I can’t see the body count dropping any time soon.

JC 11:31 am 17 Nov 14

neanderthalsis said :

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by.

I must have missed these attacks in western countries. Care to set me right by providing a few links?

dungfungus 11:28 am 17 Nov 14

“Where was the threat to Australia before Mr Abbott aligned himself with the US?”

John, you really are living in la-la land.
The plots by Islamic jihadists in Australia to kill and maim defence personnel that were discovered and diffused by ASIO happened BEFORE Tony Abbott became PM.
Next thing you will be claiming that the WTC destroyed by Islamic jihadists (9/11) was situated in the Middle East or it didn’t happen at all.
You are wrong about asylum seekers as well.
Did you also forget to say “I feel ashamed to be an Australian?”
John, when are you going to learn that hating somebody takes twice as much energy as liking someone.

house_husband 10:56 am 17 Nov 14

Why single out the Liberals for your vitriol? In recent years Labor has supported quit a few deployments including the current one against ISIS and Afghanistan.

Most of your posts contain similar cheap shots at the Liberals and it just smacks of petty bitterness. Collectively it appears you are taking some very serious subjects in vain merely as a means to exact political revenge against the Liberals.

Ben_Dover 10:39 am 17 Nov 14

Revisionist lefty claptrap from Mr H.

justin heywood 10:25 am 17 Nov 14

And here’s me thinking that Remembrance Day was about remembering Australian serviceman who died.

But no, apparently it’s just another segue for John Hargreaves ex-MLA to launch into another tiresome spray against his political enemies.

John Hargreaves Ex M 10:18 am 17 Nov 14

neanderthalsis said :

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by. Victories and displays of strength by ISIS in the middle east translate into new recruits in Australia, Canada, Great Britain, the US… There is also the mass murder bordering on genocide being committed by ISIS against other Islamic sects, Christians and any one in their way as they advance through Syria and Iraq. I’m quite certain that you and your ilk would be hand wringing and saying something must be done to save the poor folk being slaughtered if we weren’t already over there.

War is bad, people die. But sometimes it is necessary.

I agree with much of what you say but wonder why we, so remotely removed from that theater, must be the deputy sheriff in this.

Articles in the media recently talked about this being a geopolitical a religious conflict. (My interpretation). It is also a regional one.

I don’t see regions closer, more at threat from ISIL, rushing in to help. What I do see is a Western Alliance involved. As I said, where is the African effort? Where is the Asian effort, Where is the South American effort?

If this ends up a global conflict out of a regional one,I know we have only ourselves to blame for meekly following the US, whose global interference has cost so many lives.

magiccar9 9:08 am 17 Nov 14

John you should be ashamed to merge these topics – ala Lambie recently. Not to mention the disgusting title of the article.

Remembrance Day is a sacred day to remember those who have fallen, not to bang your own political agenda and opinion.

neanderthalsis 8:50 am 17 Nov 14

John,the poor ABC reception in your ivory tower may have meant that the numerous terrorist attacks under the ISIS banner in western countries may have passed you by. Victories and displays of strength by ISIS in the middle east translate into new recruits in Australia, Canada, Great Britain, the US… There is also the mass murder bordering on genocide being committed by ISIS against other Islamic sects, Christians and any one in their way as they advance through Syria and Iraq. I’m quite certain that you and your ilk would be hand wringing and saying something must be done to save the poor folk being slaughtered if we weren’t already over there.

War is bad, people die. But sometimes it is necessary.

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