14 June 2009

respect for all creatures, as long as they don't smell bad or look ugly

| weeziepops
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My place of work has called in the exterminators to get rid of some mice who have made the office their home. The exterminators use bait stations which attract the mice, who eat the poison and run off to die. I understand the death involves internal bleeding, which doesn’t sound like a painless way to go.

I understand people not wanting to share their work places or homes with other creatures and am well aware that mice are considered to be a pest. But surely there is a way to either repel them from settling there in the first place or, if they do have to be killed, using a humane means of doing so. Old fashioned traps have the benefit of being quick if they work first time, but pose problems if the mouse is smart enough to try to take the bait with a paw only to find it smashed with a spring loaded metal bar.

Does anyone have any information to share on humane pest control in Canberra?

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Ultrasonic mouse repellant devices are on sale right next to the bait and traps in Magnet Mart, and Hardwarehouse. As to their effectiveness, who knows but it satisfies the ‘humane’ requirement as long as you can live with knowing you have produced all that CO2 it takes to power the device, and that the mouse is simply a NIMBY issue of yours.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Did you know that vegetarians are the number one cause of rodent death? Thousands of warm-blooded, innocent creatures are slain as combine harvesters – the thrashing, bladed mechanical army of the vegetarian industrial complex – rip up their habitats and murder all who stand in their way. Armies of men wielding flamethrowers, Bradbury’s nightmare incarnate, burn fields of cane to make sugar, incinerating multiple generations of smiling furry things. Demand cruelty-free cereals, legumes and sugar today!

LOL Woody!

Woody Mann-Caruso9:58 am 16 Jun 09

Did you know that vegetarians are the number one cause of rodent death? Thousands of warm-blooded, innocent creatures are slain as combine harvesters – the thrashing, bladed mechanical army of the vegetarian industrial complex – rip up their habitats and murder all who stand in their way. Armies of men wielding flamethrowers, Bradbury’s nightmare incarnate, burn fields of cane to make sugar, incinerating multiple generations of smiling furry things. Demand cruelty-free cereals, legumes and sugar today!

So Woody, as an apparent meat eater, eats no vegetables at all, and neither do the animals that he eats, or the animals that those animals eat, or …..

This from the RSPCA (thanks!):
There are a range of different poisons and traps used in Australia for rodent control.

The RSPCA is concerned that many of these methods are inhumane and involve a long slow and painful death to the mouse or rat. Today we provide advice on how to reduce the chances of mice or rats causing a problem in your house or surrounds, and where control is necessary, it outlines the most humane methods available.

Houses that are located close to bush or parkland or other open spaces are prone to mice infestations. In older buildings where there may be cracks or loose bricks, problems with mice and rats are also common. There are a number of things that you can do around the home to reduce the chances of mice and rats getting into your house and or sheds. Many of these tips are easy to do and don’t require expensive materials.

Ten tips for mouse and rat proofing your home.

In your cupboards and pantry store opened food in metal, glass or heavy duty plastic containers with tight lids.

Don’t leave extra pet food out, store it in a secure container. Also remove any uneaten pet food so that it doesn’t attract mice and rats.

Sweep up food remains, litter and other rubbish inside and outside your home.

Store rubbish in metal or heavy plastic bins with tight lids.

Place rubbish outside on the morning that it is to be collected; don’t leave rubbish bags or bins on the footpath overnight.

Remove weeds and debris near buildings and in yards; don’t give mice and rats a place to hide.

Make sure that you have screens on your windows and check the windows and screens for holes.

Keep outside doors closed; use metal trim to prevent rodents from gnawing and entering underneath.

Inspect your basement, garage and house for cracks and holes; seal them with mortar or ’spakfilla’ so mice and rats can’t come through the holes.

Don’t provide hiding places for mice and rats. Store materials such as firewood, garden supplies on raised platforms with an open area underneath. Remove unused materials and junk.

Where infestations are bad and you need to consider using methods for killing mice and rats, the RSPCA recommends that you use a method that ensures a quick and humane death. Many people use a rodent bait to kill unwanted pests. Often people choose this type of bait as the rodent goes off somewhere else to die and in most cases there is no body to have to deal with. These baits contain chemicals, called anticoagulants, which cause the rodent to die by slowly bleeding to death internally. This form of killing is not humane as it causes great suffering to the rodent which takes a long time to die. In addition, the poisoned body of the rodent presents a risk if it is eaten by other animals such as native birds.

A more humane and faster method is the use of a snap trap – the old fashioned type of mouse trap that our grandparents and parents used in their houses. The traps come in sizes that can be used for either mice or rats. When used properly, these traps ensure a quick death to the mouse or rat and can be re-used. When setting the trap you should place it at right angles to a wall or other solid object with the bait nearest to the wall. It is also best to set the trap away from furniture and other material, providing the rodent with a path to the trap. The types of bait that can be used include bacon rind, peanut butter, dried fruit and bread crusts. Bait should be changed daily to keep it fresh. If the bait is not attracting rodents you should switch to another type.

The use of live traps is a popular choice for many people who do not like the idea of killing mice and rats but want to remove them from their home or property. However, the humaneness of live traps depends entirely on how frequently the traps are checked and whether food, water or nesting material are provided to avoid starvation, dehydration or cold stress. Often animals are simply left to die slowly in the trap. Unfortunately, the available evidence suggests that the survival rate of relocated animals is very low — releasing animals into a new location is therefore not likely to be a more humane alternative to killing them.

Further information on domestic rodent control is available from your nearest local government health inspector.

peterh said :

I have deployed mouse traps from mortein in the roof cavity to remove some that were particularly noisy at night. they did the job, but the screaming was unbearable. we got a couple of the ultimate traps from powells’ stock feeds. they did the trick, and into the box freezer for a little sleep. much easier and not a problem in disposing the poor little buggers.

Mice can scream? Well, that settles it for me. Thanks for the humane suggestions

RSPCA do use humane methods. I have asked for the details so I can use that to address the problem. Will let you know…

Granny said :

peterh said :

They probably wouldn’t understand the idea of sending the cute mousey to sleep in the freezer – or why the cats don’t go in there…

lol

Heck, it is a tad confusing to sort these details out when you’re little!

Having kids has completely cured me of my arachnophobia (spelling?) because they freak out if I hurt any living creatures (including ants). So to spare them the anguish of seeing Mummy be a murderous monster, instead of whacking huge hairy spiders with my shoe, I now dutifully catch them in a tupperware container and gently release them outside. In doing this, I have actually come to realise that spiders aren’t so scary after all and I feel a lot better about removing them than killing them. Bless.

So? you would rather the building burned down due to mice chewing through cables? Or maybe a work mate with a phobia (heaps do) having an accident after seeing one.

If the baits were placed by Rento*** then they probably won’t work anyway, so don’t worry!

peterh said :

They probably wouldn’t understand the idea of sending the cute mousey to sleep in the freezer – or why the cats don’t go in there…

lol

Heck, it is a tad confusing to sort these details out when you’re little!

grunta123 said :

BTW… I still don’t understand the desire to put a rodent in your freezer next to good food??? Disgusting. Probably the same people that don’t wash their hands after going to the toilet.

if it was a freezer i used for food, I wouldn’t put a mouse in it. It sits in the garage, till the day that we decide to sell it or use it. very handy for vermin control, and it is kept out of sight from the kids. They probably wouldn’t understand the idea of sending the cute mousey to sleep in the freezer – or why the cats don’t go in there…

BTW… I still don’t understand the desire to put a rodent in your freezer next to good food??? Disgusting. Probably the same people that don’t wash their hands after going to the toilet.

I remember we had a bunch of rats having parties at our house when I was younger before I discovered this magnificent treacle like glue in a small can. Anyway… I ended up trapping and catching one of the rats in the kitchen with one of the straw brooms.

Little bugger bit me as I grabbed him around the neck to send him to sleep (1 all at that point) but I learned and used dad’s welding gloves for his little friend that I got a few days later.

Still leaves you with the job of knocking them on the head, but that is just something you have to do.

We also had small cat traps that we used to catch some of the bigger rats in the ceiling. They were harder to dispose of. A real struggle to get the cage open and get hold of the mongrel without it getting away.

Unless you are in a lab or have pet snakes, the only good rat is a dead rat I don’t really care how it happens.

I have deployed mouse traps from mortein in the roof cavity to remove some that were particularly noisy at night. they did the job, but the screaming was unbearable. we got a couple of the ultimate traps from powells’ stock feeds. they did the trick, and into the box freezer for a little sleep. much easier and not a problem in disposing the poor little buggers.

Mothy said :

I had a mouse problem at my apartment. Solved easily with the plastic re-usable traps. Though they did leave some little critters alive and pinned – those were rewarded with a trip to the big skip, alive.

Now, if you want to go right over the top, get all painless yet clean, there’s always the Rentokill RADAR system. http://www.rentokil-initial.com/press/item.php?id=271

A trip to the skip bin, alive?
shame on you.
Too gutless to finish them off yourself?

Spring-loaded traps do the trick. Once when I had concerns about killing them I caught one in an upturned ice-cream bucket with the corner raised on a small stick tied to a string which was then tied to a peanut-butter loaded cracker. I took it outside and let it go and it ran around like crazy in the sunlight for 1 minute until a magpie spotted it and scooped it up. The incident decided it for me.

I like the idea of the carbon dioxide. That probably just feels like having a general anaesthetic and not coming back out of it.

I had a mouse problem at my apartment. Solved easily with the plastic re-usable traps. Though they did leave some little critters alive and pinned – those were rewarded with a trip to the big skip, alive.

Now, if you want to go right over the top, get all painless yet clean, there’s always the Rentokill RADAR system. http://www.rentokil-initial.com/press/item.php?id=271

I already know of a humane way of killing a redback. Stomping on it with a boot is fairly effective. Make sure you grind your heel into the ground and the spider should die almost instantly.

Having said that, although I’m terrified of spiders I will always try to usher them out of the house with a broom rather than kill them.

Interesting news from the CRC though.

If you are worried about the old traps being ineefective, buy them and add a couple more coils to the spring using a pair of pliers. Takes few minutes out of your sunday, but in terms of humane it is the way to go.

Plus showing kids how to juice of mouse traps keep them occupied, rather than throwing fruit at the neighbours, robbing servos or being run over by a bus.

neanderthalsis1:02 pm 15 Jun 09

nicnacvb said :

Me? Nothing. Not my area of expertise. And I’m a squeamish vegetarian 😀

But there are organisations such as the Invasive Animals CRC and CSIRO which I would think should be part of the solution.

I do, however support animal welfare organisations who try to encourage more humane methods. And I don’t want to become one of those people who is happy to kill pests in any way without a thought towards the animals suffering.

Do you disagree with my line of reasoning on the issue?

So, would a redback receive the warm and fluffy treatment?

The invasive Animals CRC is doing some work to control numbers already:

The IA CRC (and formerly the Pest Animals Control CRC) spent considerable research effort investigating the feasibility of virally-vectored immuno-contraception for rodents. The overarching concept was that the genes for proteins that are critically involved in fertilisation or implantation could be inserted into a virus that would infect mice. The inserted genes would then be expressed in an animal infected with the recombinant virus and the infected animal would simultaneously raise antibodies to the virus and the reproductive protein. In this way, fertilisation or implantation would be prevented without affecting the animal’s sexual activity or social status in the population.

http://www.invasiveanimals.com/invasive-animals/rats-mice/index.html

Have you thought about using those electrical\magnetic pulse things you plug into the wall socket as a deterrent, you can get them off danoz direct but ill sell you mine for only 2 easy payments + postage 😉
I have a dog that eat’s mice, so its traps for me.

Peewee Slasher12:54 pm 15 Jun 09

Granny: “If you are anything like me, then there is nothing more traumatic or disgusting than a mutilated, headless rodent served up to you proudly for breakfast by some over solicitous feline. This is pretty much enough to make me reasonably hysterical. Blood and guts are not my forte.”

I sympathise or empathise?

My dog is forever bringing home mutilated cats, still meowing in his clutches. I shout at him “Kill them quickly” but he never listens.

Morgan said :

Or carry disease.

You have got to be kidding, clever mouse traps releasing them in the park? They are an introcuced species that are classed as vermin. Give me a break.

I don’t want to handle dead mouse bodies, especially when they have been half mashed by the old spring loaded trap. I’ve also heard a poisoned mouse in pain as it died, wasn’t nice. OK, I am a wimp.

Some of you have given me an idea. If I put the entire trap in the freezer after catching it the mouse would simply fall asleep and die. That could be an option, no pain for mouse and I am lowering the population. Then I could just tip the frozen mouse in the bin, too easy.

luther_bendross12:42 pm 15 Jun 09

Just stay up late with your potato cannon at the ready.

NB: do not use near small children.

Why kill them at all? (unless you really have a plague)

I set up an upside-down shoebox sitting on the lid, with crackers under a small stick which flimsily holds up one end of the box. (with some holes so it can close quickly)

Overnight the mouse goes in, nudges cracker, box falls down into its lid. (the edges of the lid prevent the mice from otherwise easily nudging under to escape).

Then just let them go in a ‘bushland’ area.

Works well if there’s only half a dozen mice or so, just takes a few goes but once you get rid of them that’s pretty much the end of the problem. peace 🙂

bren said :

Wow, really discussing the big issues here! Mice = pest = disease.

I have ‘catch and release program’ at home for non-dangerous spiders… but for mice? You’re kidding right? Why take them down to the local park, so they can run into someone else’s home – do some community service and terminate them.

Can I release them near your home so you can do your community service ?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:17 pm 15 Jun 09

In the words of Homer Simpson: “Can’t someone ELSE do it”?

Only if it gets the whole mouse; if it just gets a tail, leg or foot I imagine it might be pretty painful for the mouse…

Inappropriate12:05 pm 15 Jun 09

What’s so inhumane about the traditional spring-loaded trap? ‘Tis a swift death – nothing cruel about that.

The mice are pests and obviously need to be killed – but Weezie is just saying that there must be kinder ways to so this than allowing creatures to suffer in agony for up to a week.

Weezie – just google ‘humane kill mice’ and you will find a bunch of advice on methods of killing them with minimal long-term suffering. Catch them in the ‘kind’ traps and then employ the methods suggested by the animal liberationalists on the various blogs (dry ice, exhaust fumes, snap spine, freezer, brick etc…).

None of these are pleasant, but they are quicker and more humane than seven days of painful internal bleeding. The other suggestion I have is to contact a pet store that sells reptiles, as they probably have access to quick/humane killing methods for the mice that they feed to their snakes (they may even take the mice off your hands).

Good on you for caring enough to post about this issue.

Me? Nothing. Not my area of expertise. And I’m a squeamish vegetarian 😀

But there are organisations such as the Invasive Animals CRC and CSIRO which I would think should be part of the solution.

I do, however support animal welfare organisations who try to encourage more humane methods. And I don’t want to become one of those people who is happy to kill pests in any way without a thought towards the animals suffering.

Do you disagree with my line of reasoning on the issue?

I dont advocate suffering for any creature, but mice and rats are noxious pests that dont just inconvenience humans, they compete with native animals and damage the ecosystem. Im all for sacrificing noxious pests for the greater good of all, I dont understand why someone would catch and release a noxious pest into the wild, even if it is the local park. Humans bring with them many parasites and pets that further damage the fragile environment we live in. My bug bear is feel good environmentalism, I congratulate people who make conscious decisions to be humane to animals, become vegetarian, protect the environment etc, but always be aware of what you are doing and its impact further down the line.

It is a big issue for people like me who don’t want to cause suffering in others, whether they be mice or men. I am not saying there is no argument for population control. All I am saying is let it be done humanely and with as little suffering as possible. FFS.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:37 am 15 Jun 09

I have in the past used baits because unfortunately I had no alternative. But it would be good if people would put a bit more effort into finding a way to get rid of theses pests humanely and effectively.

So what are you planning to do about this?

Wow, really discussing the big issues here! Mice = pest = disease.

I have ‘catch and release program’ at home for non-dangerous spiders… but for mice? You’re kidding right? Why take them down to the local park, so they can run into someone else’s home – do some community service and terminate them.

(The jar lid method gets used on a part of a farm where we rarely set foot, so is a fire & forget method of getting rid of bulk lots of mice, where by the time I find them they are shrivelled little husks of mousefur.)

Springtraps and a regular check ftw if you don’t want rotted corpses.

I think it’s disgraceful that we humans are the idiots that introduced these pests and yet the animals are the ones that suffer for it.

I believe that pests should be controlled (killed if necessary), but that we should be responsible enough to conscientiously research ways of doing it humanely rather than being lazy and sticking with the cheapest (which just happens to be the most painful, unpleasant) way.

I have in the past used baits because unfortunately I had no alternative. But it would be good if people would put a bit more effort into finding a way to get rid of theses pests humanely and effectively.

The old spring loaded mouse traps are as close to cheap, effective and humane as you’re likely to get.

Putting the bodies in the compost makes it a green choice too.

Cardboard soaked in a vegetable oil is as effective as just about any other bait.

You do need a LOT of traps. You also need to ensure they aren’t put anywhere where a non-target animal (like children) might do themselves a damage.

We had a mouse problem earlier this year.

I tried many methods of trying to irradicate them, and after about a fortnight of being kept awake by them trying to get to my dogs kibble I bit the bullet and went for the baiting solution, they have not returned.

Anyone who disturbs my slumber deserves to die a painful death.

In all seriousness, I am an animal lover, but not a pest lover. These things have a brain the size of a grain of rice, they are severly incontinent and they pee everywhere. They pose a serious risk to health and hygeine and the only thing that drives them is food and the unquenchable urge to breed.

Think about this…

– The female mouse will give birth to 4-6 litters a year, which will contain 5-10 young. These young can reproduce three months after birth, so it is calculated, that within one year, a single pair of rodents can be responsible for as many 400-700 pests.

– They contaminate more of your food than they eat and carry disease-causing organisms such as salmonella, rickettsial pox, tapeworm, trichinosis and hantvirus just to name a few.

Kill em! Kill em all!!!

Cheap, effective, or humane. Pick two.

For mine, a bit of milo mixed with some corn meal\flour & plaster of paris, in an upturned jar lid.

neanderthalsis10:27 am 15 Jun 09

Having once lived in an area in the grips of a mouse plague, I have an abject hatred of the little bastards. The grain silos would be full of them but once the grain was gone, they’d go on a rodent rampage and eat anything. When there was nothing left to eat, they all died and left rotting carcasses everywhere. A thorough spraying of Baygon kills them.

I’d suggest a python, put it in the kitchen overnight.

Cyanide. It is a very fast death, and according to the one person I have met who experienced cyanide poisoning (didn’t die obviously), it is not very painful.

I think mice are rather nice;
Their tails are long, their faces small;
They haven’t any chins at all.
Their ears are pink, their teeth are white,
They run about the house at night;
They nibble things they shouldn’t touch,
and, no one seems to like them much,
but, I think mice are rather nice.

We learnt this when I was at Primary School. And I still do think mice are rather nice and we refuse to use mice poisons in our home. There are humane ways to kill these creatures rather than letting them suffer and die slow, miserable deaths. I’m with you on this one Granny and Weezie.

Whatsup said :

We purchased some “Clever Mouse Traps” from Bunnings. They capture the mouse alive and well so you will need to check them every morning, if they are full we drive to a local park, where we let the little beasties go. No critter handling required, just open the lid and away they run. We use peanut butter as a bait which attracts them nicely.

It’s views like yours that in the past contributed to numerous other problems we face in this country in relation to introduced pests. Get a grip man – these things are a serious problem in our country.

http://www.cse.csiro.au/research/rodents/Mouse_Plagues.pdf

I’d say go for the “Clever Mouse Traps” mentioned by Whatsup.

If you are anything like me, then there is nothing more traumatic or disgusting than a mutilated, headless rodent served up to you proudly for breakfast by some over solicitous feline. This is pretty much enough to make me reasonably hysterical. Blood and guts are not my forte.

Traps. Bleah! Same problem.

If you have a small child you may be able to bribe them five dollars or even ten to dispose of the splatted mouse corpse. If you are very unlucky they will still turn you down and you will have to do it yourself whilst pretending that you’re awfully grown up and don’t mind at all, like when you have to take them along for your bloodtest.

Watching them shiver to death with internal bleeding is also not a favourite of mine. The children look at you with big, solemn eyes like you are Adolph Hitler, Ghengis Khan and Ivan the Terrible all rolled into one. Your boss may not do this to you, however the mouse will, especially if it’s a baby.

Perhaps you can donate the mice you catch to a school science lab where they will gas them before dissection. This would probably be pretty painless.

In short, weeziepops, it’s like contraception. There’s no really good solution. They all suck a little bit one way or the other. Just go for the one you find the least horrible.

Best of luck with it all!

This is a joke thread, right?

Get peanut butter to attract them, then tie little Timex watch bombs to them, and then send to an enemies house. You may or may not require Angelina Jolie for this.

grunge_hippy9:42 pm 14 Jun 09

my dog must think its a cat, because it is always catching mice.

Internal bleeding – caused by eating the chemical Warfarin.

Wait until your dimmer years, and you too will probably end up on it! Well you’ll be prescribed it anyway.

(I’m serious.)

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:50 pm 14 Jun 09

A vet euthanasing a mouse?

Use a chunk of wood. If they’re already asleep they won’t know about it anyway.

I’ve only ever had to deal with rodents once, and I found Mr Talon did the job nicely.

Felix the Cat8:32 pm 14 Jun 09

Maybe some sort of food laced with a drug that puts the mice to sleep and then you can retrieve them and take them to the Vet to be euthanased. Would be a costly way of going about it though.

I often find that mice (not sure if they’re exotic mice or native mice) are living in the compost (one of those bottomless plastic things). They are quite useful, they shred up all the big leaves and things so they compost faster. I realised they were there when I was watering the compost to get it to compost faster, and a very wet mouse appeared and glared at me. Only problem is, it attracts the snakes (as I also discovered the unpleasant way).

I’ll give SheepGroper’s advice a try, I think. Cats aren’t an option, unfortunately, as a colleague is allergic. Thanks to those who have taken my post seriously and respected my views.

farnarkler said :

I’ll lend you our cats. They’ll soon get rid of the problem.

Hey weeziepops , glad to hear you’re being considerate of even those creatures most consider to be pests, but I’ll say I agree with farnarkler. Cats are the natural solution. It might not be clean and pain free, but it is the ‘green’ solution. Tell your boss that an RSPCA cat and catfood costs less than an exterminator, and they’re fun too.

The best way would be to make work unattractive to mice, that is by making sure there’s little to attract them in the first place. Could food scraps be luring them in? Dirty kitchen areas inside, food litter from people lunching outside?

Death by cat wouldn’t be a nice way to go. Plus one of the people at work is allergic. I understand that some people want to reduce the number of mice which share our world. I don’t agree but am only asking that the killing be done as humanely as possible. It would be good if the RSPCA could offer some advice that would minimise pain to these creatures when humans want to get rid of them.

barking toad6:17 pm 14 Jun 09

I assume this thread is a piss-take.

So I’ll suggest AK47s.

If it’s a serious thread, I am embarrassed for reponding.

I inquired on this exact topic with the RSPCA. They use inhumane pest control themselves, they said.

I’ll lend you our cats. They’ll soon get rid of the problem.

Or carry disease.

You have got to be kidding, clever mouse traps releasing them in the park? They are an introcuced species that are classed as vermin. Give me a break.

We purchased some “Clever Mouse Traps” from Bunnings. They capture the mouse alive and well so you will need to check them every morning, if they are full we drive to a local park, where we let the little beasties go. No critter handling required, just open the lid and away they run. We use peanut butter as a bait which attracts them nicely.

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