Ripped off in a carpark, who cares

The Naddiks 1 October 2010 95

To : Airport Management
Cc: Canberra Times
Bcc : The RiotAct
Bccc: Unsuspecting BBP carpark users

Bcccc: anyone who will listen to a grumpy, upset whinning guy who is an Aussie battler trying to make the next payment on his over-priced house and gets ripped off on a daily basis.

This afternoon (Friday 1/10/10) at about 5pm, after a long arduous day at work in one of your semi-functional buildings at Brindabella Business Park, I was informed by one of your staff, a very ‘symapthetic’ bald gentleman that the weekly ticket I had paid $22:50 for on Tuesday (a nice little rise of another $2:50 per week by your airport group not so long ago – thankyou for that one) was not valid to exit the carpark with because I had, in a panic, taken a new ticket on entry to the carpark when I couldn’t find my weekly ticket and had a line-up of impatient motorists building behind me also attempting to gain access to your wonderful facility.

He (the bald carpark attendant) explained in a monotone voice that I would need to purchase a new ticket for $5:50 so I could get OUT of the carpark as those were the terms and conditions of entry….? I asked him where these terms and conditions were actually highlighted so unsuspecting suckers/motorists such as myself would be aware of such all-encompassing regulations and he simply stared at me with one of those ‘I’m not going to even attempt to explain that one’ sort of expressions that occur upon employees of the calibre who can only gain employment in carparks.

I therefore paid the additional $5:50 to get out because I couldn’t be bothered arguing with a bald robotic paraphrasing person and continued – no thanks to you – on my way home. However, realising that I had been forced into paying additional funds for my release from your facility, when, in truth, I had done nothing wrong started to weigh heavily upon my sense of fair play and common decency. In fact, by the time I actually got home, I was really infuriated by the whole ridiculous affair and decided to write this letter in the naive hope that you would;

    a) Warn other drivers that they would incur a $5:50 fine for not using their weekly ticket.

    b) Stop hiring people who so nicely advise you that they’ve got you by the balls and there’s nothing you can do about it.

    c) Have some common courtesy towards your paying customers if they make a silly mistake like forgetting where they’ve put they’re weekly ticket, then found it again AFTER gaining access to your carpark – why not do something basically humane, like, give them a break and finally, just to re-inforce this one a little…

    d) Stop hiring people who so nicely advise you that they’ve got you by the balls and there’s nothing you can do about it…..ooh – don’t get me wrong, he was very professional and courteous – in fact, I think you should probably fast track his career to … well, wherever you can get to as a car park thingy…

Regards

The battler


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95 Responses to Ripped off in a carpark, who cares
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The Naddiks The Naddiks 9:26 am 03 Oct 10

astrojax said :

can we have a prize for most posts to one’s own story? naddicks totally rocks on this!

while i agree, the man with the big corporate pockets is someone to fight and loathe, mebbe, but $5.50 is a relatively cheap lesson in ensuring you know where your towel is, hoopy frood.

still, eight post nutbag is surely a record?

HeHe – you caught me – let’s go for the ton!

The Naddiks The Naddiks 9:22 am 03 Oct 10

creative_canberran said :

The Naddiks said :

ok – I understand what you are saying, but let me invite you over to my place for a beer ok…. but there just might be a binding contract for conditions of entry stuck to the inside of my front door in clear view of anyone exiting – it will state that I have the right to reach into your pocket, pull out your wallet and take whatever I see fit for your having enjoyed my company – I’m certain you will be ok with this having read your diatribe, VB ok with you? (ps – nobody ‘PUT’ a contract infront of me – for such an intelligent person you really are pre-programmed aren’t you?)

You don’t seem to be cognisant of how contract works in even the most basic sense.
Inviting someone to your home is not going to create a contract unless you do something to create an agreement, such as handing them a ticket stating T&C apply, in which case they would have the opportunity to opt out. even if they don’t, any terms you create could not be unlawful or unreasonable, such as theft from someone.
Furthermore, you owe someone entering your property certain protections under Torts to protect them from harm, which again is something which applies whenever we go anywhere and is not something we think about. But if we spill a drink and someone slips on it at the shops because the centre didn’t clean it up, that is why we can get compensation.

With regards to knowledge of the conditions, the law does not require you be aware of the conditions for them to be binding on you.
Indeed this would be impossible given that for all the express conditions the carpark could list, there are implied terms from legislation such as the Trade Practices Act which may apply as well even if not listed in the carpark’s T&C.

Your comment about being “pre-programmed” indicates that you have no respect for almost two centuries of contract law or really society itself. Rather, it’s all about looking out for number one.

cognisant ? I was just about to call you that

The Naddiks The Naddiks 9:21 am 03 Oct 10

BerraBoy68 said :

Naddiks,

We’re nt all brainwashed, we just accept how society works and do our best to fit in. Please spend some time googling what a contract is and how it can and cannot be enacted in law. Then you may realise that your expectations of society and its processes are a tad too high. No-one ever said life was fair or that you should actually ever get what you feel you deserve. But then again, just a little bit of information can gie you something to act on and ensure you aren’t ever again left with the feeling you’re being robbed on a daily basis.

Here’s a general tip, any time you have to pay somewhere to get in, there will be terms and conditions attached. You can either accept this or choose not to pay. You can even make a counter offer of a lower price, which the people who own the venue may or may not accept.

From what you’re saying you’re doing it tough and I can understand the frustration of loosing cash you may not be able to afford, but you still have a responsibility to understand your own rights. If there’s any ‘corporate trickery’ going on its that the big end of town know play on the fact that people simply don’t understand the law. Once you have this knowledge, however, you’ll have it all over them. Sorry but trite examples won’t win your case for you. If you seriously believe you have an issue with the owners of the carpark, then please take it further. That’s how laws get changed!

Mate – it simply doesn’t work this way, most of the time, when your caught in a situation, do you sit back and begin to negotiate the in’s and out’s of the contract you did or did not agree to enter into – no.
You are right about standing u for your rights though and I have beaten ACER by going thru Fair Trades and finally the threat of court action because they were in breach of statuatory warranty. Understanding contracts is NOT how the average person should have to lead their life…being ready to argue the validity of the legal rights of the consumer was the last thing on my mind last Friday afternoon when all I wanted to do was get home…

KB1971 KB1971 8:47 am 03 Oct 10

Rather pay for Mr Snow to get more rich & stop you from gettin “ripped off” you could ride your pushy to work.

If that is past you ability, park at Russell or Campbell for free & ride to Snowtown.

You & your body will feel better for it. Before you say “oh I can’t do that because…..blah, blah” really think about it, thousands of other people like myself do it every day all over the country, even the Premier of NSW does it.

I refuse to pay for parking at Snowtow since they stopped people doing pick ups at the terminal, I use the in & put in a few minutes I stead.

People really are married to their cars….

Gerry-Built Gerry-Built 8:38 am 03 Oct 10

beautiful piece of writing…

I think you are quite right to be a little agitated about the situation. You had the correct ticket when you wanted to leave, but because the machine didn’t validate it in the AM, they made you pay for a day of parking – that’s bloody rotten. Surely their machines are not beyond working this one out – even if the staff (obviously) are. Where’d the customer service go? A lot more than $5.50 damage has just been done to Brindabella Office Park on this site – a bit of customer service would have avoided it…

Interesting to see if terms and conditions are made more readily available as a result… although it is unlikely anyone will ever read them before entry (so situation ‘normal’).

Mulberry Mulberry 1:49 am 03 Oct 10

Ian said :

I’m with #14 WMC on this one. It wouldn’t have hurt the carpark guy to use a bit of commonsense in the interests of looking after a customer.

Clearly many posters work in those government departments where strict adherence to rules is valued more highly than results.

results – respect and decency (as an ex public servant of many yrs, I feel I have the right to admit this!!)

Mulberry Mulberry 1:46 am 03 Oct 10

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

You can live in this world:

“Sorry mate, couldn’t find my pass this morning. Here it is.”
“Oh. I see you’ve paid for parking for the week. These things happen. Enjoy your evening.”
“Thanks mate, see you next week.”

Or you can live in the world of the sad little f*ckers posting here tonight – small minds with small ideas just perfect for a career in a small booth pushing small buttons. That goes triple for you, arescarti42, you special, special waste of oxygen. Quick, run home and tell all your friends you pointed out a typo on the internet.

…Oh. Well, you know you’re awesome, and that’s what counts. I bet we all think twice about posting online now that we know you’re watching.

Brilliant post!!
Paid parking sucks – but there is nothing much any of us can do about that! But to have paid for parking and then have made such a small human error such as misplacing your ticket and then having someone who has absolutley no empathy – no sence of humanity, what a load of BS! I’d be whinging too!! Paid parking is a frigging joke – and alot of us struggle to afford such “small” things believe it or not!! What ever happened to a bit of understanding between people!!

Obviousley the car-park employee who was “doing his job” was just over it or case-hardened and thats what sucks, he’s probably been ripped off that many times that he doesnt give a stuff when someone genuine is apon him….

who’s to blame? IMO our stupid greedy government!

troll-sniffer troll-sniffer 12:17 am 03 Oct 10

Hmmmm. Even at the minimum wage Naddicks series of replies must have well and truly used up $5.50 of his time, and I suspect there’ll be even more to come.

I suspect Mr Naddicks will be a little more cognisant of the need to keep track of said parking ticket in future.

If Mr Naddickws was truly a battler he’d be cycling to Brindabella, so as far as I’m concerned his whole story has no credibility anyway.

BigDave BigDave 9:10 pm 02 Oct 10

Isn’t it totally hilarious and typical of today’s society when, like in this case, the OP is the one in the wrong but wants to blame everyone else but themselves! They’ve even got the audacity to think that they should be done a favour! WTF?
SUCK IT UP IDIOT!

ConanOfCooma ConanOfCooma 8:37 pm 02 Oct 10

FFS Naddiks, combine your replies…

peterepete peterepete 8:07 pm 02 Oct 10

Naddiks – i feel your pain. Like WMC pointed out I think it would have been pretty reasonable to accept that you’d already paid.
I’m not saying this was good behavior but I once had a situation in a Sydney carpark (2 hours free) where I put my ticket in the centre console of the dash. Sadly the ticket slipped between two panels and was lodged somewhere behind my dashboard. When exiting after 30 mins they wanted to charge me for a lost ticket (full day) to which my response was its not lost its just behind my dash and I’d rather not disassemble it but was willing to if they insisted. The queue of cars behind me helped them not be so concerned.
They (like brindabella) would probably have been in their rights, but would not be in their right mind to enforce them. Thankfully they extended some grace to me which I thought pretty reasonable.

creative_canberran creative_canberran 8:03 pm 02 Oct 10

The Naddiks said :

ok – I understand what you are saying, but let me invite you over to my place for a beer ok…. but there just might be a binding contract for conditions of entry stuck to the inside of my front door in clear view of anyone exiting – it will state that I have the right to reach into your pocket, pull out your wallet and take whatever I see fit for your having enjoyed my company – I’m certain you will be ok with this having read your diatribe, VB ok with you? (ps – nobody ‘PUT’ a contract infront of me – for such an intelligent person you really are pre-programmed aren’t you?)

You don’t seem to be cognisant of how contract works in even the most basic sense.
Inviting someone to your home is not going to create a contract unless you do something to create an agreement, such as handing them a ticket stating T&C apply, in which case they would have the opportunity to opt out. even if they don’t, any terms you create could not be unlawful or unreasonable, such as theft from someone.
Furthermore, you owe someone entering your property certain protections under Torts to protect them from harm, which again is something which applies whenever we go anywhere and is not something we think about. But if we spill a drink and someone slips on it at the shops because the centre didn’t clean it up, that is why we can get compensation.

With regards to knowledge of the conditions, the law does not require you be aware of the conditions for them to be binding on you.
Indeed this would be impossible given that for all the express conditions the carpark could list, there are implied terms from legislation such as the Trade Practices Act which may apply as well even if not listed in the carpark’s T&C.

Your comment about being “pre-programmed” indicates that you have no respect for almost two centuries of contract law or really society itself. Rather, it’s all about looking out for number one.

gtim108 gtim108 7:34 pm 02 Oct 10

CONDITIONS OF ENTRY & LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY

http://www.brindabellabusinesspark.com.au/bbp-toandfrom/images/BBP_termsweb.pdf

2. Entry to this car park is only available via:
(a) a casual ticket received prior to entry;
(b) a pre-paid ticket; or
(c) a pass card issued to you by Canberra Airport.

3. Any exit without a valid and paid ticket or pass card may result in additional parking and administration fees being levied against you.

10. You agree to:
(a) produce and display when requested by us, your valid parking ticket or pass card as proof of payment of the parking fee;
(b) not to cause any obstruction;
(c) not to park anywhere that we designate as a no parking area; and
(d) not to use this car park other than in accordance with instructions that an authorised officer may give.

Jethro Jethro 7:22 pm 02 Oct 10

creative_canberran said :

Actually, High Court precedent regarding automated parking stations allows someone to take the ticket and leave immediately if they do not choose to accept the terms of the parking station. This is because unlike situations where a ticket is manually dispatched, there is no opportunity to reject the ticket where it is automated. The law recognises this and allows you to leave without penalty so long as it is without delay.

And this is how one can pick up people from Canberra airport without having to pay the mandatory parking fee that has been imposed due to their security restrictions banning curbside pickups.

astrojax astrojax 7:04 pm 02 Oct 10

can we have a prize for most posts to one’s own story? naddicks totally rocks on this!

while i agree, the man with the big corporate pockets is someone to fight and loathe, mebbe, but $5.50 is a relatively cheap lesson in ensuring you know where your towel is, hoopy frood.

still, eight post nutbag is surely a record?

BerraBoy68 BerraBoy68 6:59 pm 02 Oct 10

Naddiks,

We’re nt all brainwashed, we just accept how society works and do our best to fit in. Please spend some time googling what a contract is and how it can and cannot be enacted in law. Then you may realise that your expectations of society and its processes are a tad too high. No-one ever said life was fair or that you should actually ever get what you feel you deserve. But then again, just a little bit of information can gie you something to act on and ensure you aren’t ever again left with the feeling you’re being robbed on a daily basis. Here’s a general tip, any time you have to pay somewhere to get in, there will be terms and conditions attached. You can either accept this or choose not to pay. You can even make a counter offer of a lower price, which the people who own the venue may or may not accept. From what you’re saying you’re doing it tough and I can understand the frustration of loosing cash you may not be able to afford, but you still have a responsibility to understand your own rights. If there’s any ‘corporate trickery’ going on its that the big end of town know play on the fact that people simply don’t understand the law. Once you have this knowledge, however, you’ll have it all over them. Sorry but trite examples won’t win your case for you. If you seriously believe you have an issue with the owners of the carpark, then please take it further. That’s how laws get changed!

The Naddiks The Naddiks 6:36 pm 02 Oct 10

BerraBoy68 said :

The Naddiks said :

BerraBoy68 said :

Interesting thread.

Sad as it is, tt seems to me that you entered into a contract with the carpark’s owners and they enforced their rights under the contract. I’m not saying the attendant couldn’t have been more understanding, it does sound like he could have been, but the point is people generally aren’t getting ripped off by big corporations as you sem to beleive.

What is actually happening is that people simply fail to understand that they enter multiple contracts with big corporations on a daily basis. The onus to understand the Terms and Conditions of these contracts falls on both parties. However, when people don’t understand they’ve entered a contract they feel hard done by when things don’t work out as they intended, whereas the big corporations know their stuff and are simply enforcing their legal rights. Not everyone can be a lawyer and understand this stuff (I’m no lawyer but I do work in the contracting world and always read the small print) but it’s an ever increasing fact of life. Lesson is, if you read the small print in future you may be able to argue your way out of these things with a fact-based argument rather than emotion (as hard as that is to do at the time).

Good luck!

and your ok with these daily enforced laws/contracts – do you read the small print (if it is visible anywhere) which alludes to more small print which then points to a three page contract every time you enter and leave a carpark? P L E A S E….

but I do take your point and that is precisely my point – where are our rights ending up.. $2 atm fees, intentionally miscalculated bank fees, rip-off carparks especially in places where they have a ‘captive audience’… but thanks for the tread :]

In most cases, it’s just life. Every time you buy something at the shops, e.g. including newspaper, chewing gum, etc. you enter a contract. Am I OK with this? I certainly am, it’s life in the 21st century. If you’re not OK with it then you are in serious trouble as a life full of major disappointment awaits you. Do you seriously think Banks and other big corporations sit around thinking of ways to rip us off with scams every time we choose to spend our money? I don’t. If you do, then your simple complaint about a specific car-parking issue has now escalated to the point where you’re starting to sound like a ‘conspiracy theorist’, and good luck with that.

As for right’s you have loads of them, in fact probably more than the big corporations. What you might like to do is research them,I think you’d feel reassured that you can make choices. For example, you can choose not to enter any contract someone puts in front of you, you could stop using car parks, grow your own food, keep your money under the mattress, etc. You can be an informed customer or remain uninformed and keep feeling as if you are being ripped off, the choice is actually yours.

Oh, and while I do read the small print when entering an important contract (house, car, phone bills, internet, etc.) I don’t always read it when entering a car park, buying food etc, but if something goes wrong with this I know enough about my rights to know what action I can and can’t take. Seriously, if you’re a battler, and I have no reason to think you’re not, see someone about getting legal aid and seek redress. In fact, get in touch with A Current Affair, they love helping people take on the big corporations.

ok – I understand what you are saying, but let me invite you over to my place for a beer ok…. but there just might be a binding contract for conditions of entry stuck to the inside of my front door in clear view of anyone exiting – it will state that I have the right to reach into your pocket, pull out your wallet and take whatever I see fit for your having enjoyed my company – I’m certain you will be ok with this having read your diatribe, VB ok with you? (ps – nobody ‘PUT’ a contract infront of me – for such an intelligent person you really are pre-programmed aren’t you?)

The Naddiks The Naddiks 6:31 pm 02 Oct 10

Freddyp said :

The Naddiks said :

Freddyp said :

I’m sympathetic to any poor bastard who has to work at the abomination that is Snowtown but, in this case, you forgot your ticket and you paid the price. Stiff.

misplaced my ticket Freddy, explainned it Freddy, then got stiffed Freddy – but thanks for the sympathetic comment…

You’re right – I apologise.

At least they should have offered you a refund if you presented your misplaced ticket.

it’s cool Freddy – we’re all in this at some stage – just beware entering into a binding contract when you enter a seemingly innocent and simplistic place such as a carpark :]

BerraBoy68 BerraBoy68 5:39 pm 02 Oct 10

The Naddiks said :

BerraBoy68 said :

Interesting thread.

Sad as it is, tt seems to me that you entered into a contract with the carpark’s owners and they enforced their rights under the contract. I’m not saying the attendant couldn’t have been more understanding, it does sound like he could have been, but the point is people generally aren’t getting ripped off by big corporations as you sem to beleive.

What is actually happening is that people simply fail to understand that they enter multiple contracts with big corporations on a daily basis. The onus to understand the Terms and Conditions of these contracts falls on both parties. However, when people don’t understand they’ve entered a contract they feel hard done by when things don’t work out as they intended, whereas the big corporations know their stuff and are simply enforcing their legal rights. Not everyone can be a lawyer and understand this stuff (I’m no lawyer but I do work in the contracting world and always read the small print) but it’s an ever increasing fact of life. Lesson is, if you read the small print in future you may be able to argue your way out of these things with a fact-based argument rather than emotion (as hard as that is to do at the time).

Good luck!

and your ok with these daily enforced laws/contracts – do you read the small print (if it is visible anywhere) which alludes to more small print which then points to a three page contract every time you enter and leave a carpark? P L E A S E….

but I do take your point and that is precisely my point – where are our rights ending up.. $2 atm fees, intentionally miscalculated bank fees, rip-off carparks especially in places where they have a ‘captive audience’… but thanks for the tread :]

In most cases, it’s just life. Every time you buy something at the shops, e.g. including newspaper, chewing gum, etc. you enter a contract. Am I OK with this? I certainly am, it’s life in the 21st century. If you’re not OK with it then you are in serious trouble as a life full of major disappointment awaits you. Do you seriously think Banks and other big corporations sit around thinking of ways to rip us off with scams every time we choose to spend our money? I don’t. If you do, then your simple complaint about a specific car-parking issue has now escalated to the point where you’re starting to sound like a ‘conspiracy theorist’, and good luck with that.

As for right’s you have loads of them, in fact probably more than the big corporations. What you might like to do is research them,I think you’d feel reassured that you can make choices. For example, you can choose not to enter any contract someone puts in front of you, you could stop using car parks, grow your own food, keep your money under the mattress, etc. You can be an informed customer or remain uninformed and keep feeling as if you are being ripped off, the choice is actually yours.

Oh, and while I do read the small print when entering an important contract (house, car, phone bills, internet, etc.) I don’t always read it when entering a car park, buying food etc, but if something goes wrong with this I know enough about my rights to know what action I can and can’t take. Seriously, if you’re a battler, and I have no reason to think you’re not, see someone about getting legal aid and seek redress. In fact, get in touch with A Current Affair, they love helping people take on the big corporations.

creative_canberran creative_canberran 3:20 pm 02 Oct 10

I couldn’t remember the case name but the original poster’s predicament did remind me of a case:

Balmain New Ferry Co Ltd v Robertson (1906) 4 CLR 379

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