26 June 2013

Rudd returned as leader of parliamentary Labor Party. PM? Maybe?

| johnboy
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julia gillard

The returning officer has spoken and Kevin Rudd is now the leader of the Labor Party.

Final margin 57 to 45. (Bill Shorten decisive)

What happens next in the parliament will be exciting but the public servants of Canberra are well advised to tread very, very carefully.

There’s going to have to be a god almighty reshuffle for a Government that might not make it through tomorrow, let alone an election sooner than later.


UPDATE: It appears Tony Abbott is (for now) holding off process games in favour of the main event on polling day.

[Photo via Keep Calm Abbott is not PM]

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Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:37 pm 29 Jun 13

Darkfallz and mysteryman, maybe educate yourselves about the global financial situations before proving your ignorance.

And leave the jones sound bites at the door please.

Cheers.

triffid said :

…..epitomolgical….

Hey, Billy-Bob, put down that banjo. This here fellow who thinks he’s Michel Foucault can’t even spell epistemological!

Well you can call the devil Derrida, Jeb. I ain’t seen nothing like that this side of Queanbeyan in many a long year.

triffid said :

Whatever gets you through the night, howeph. If you need an intellectual wheelchair ramp and a hand rail to start get a handle on a proposition, then go for it. I must admit, I did ponder at the time if I was typing slowly enough.

I was merely trying to make an effort to add to collective knowledge and explain some ‘why’s’ (using one example). It was an invitation to RA-ers to think a little deeper. But, I guess you can only splash in the puddles. That’s fine, but you’ll miss out on critical nuances if that’s your only party trick.

Or are you one of those 23 year old advisors, who have done so much damage to policy development in this nation? The reduction of knowledge to the simplistic in a one-page Brief of dot-points? Back to uni for you and, this time, try and read some Scarbrough, or Reynolds, or any of the political sociologists who have examined the field in Westminster / Washminister democracies.

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

Being confrontational and obtuse doesn’t make you an intellectual behemoth, just a pompous wind-bag with a degree in the softest “science” there is.

triffid said :

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

Hi Triffid,

Actually I have a bone to pick with you over that one.

It was while feeding on your “Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. ” that my poor Babel fish died from a stress induced internal hemorrhage.

This is quite remarkable because it has been clearly demonstrated by Ford Prefect and Arthur Dent that Babel fish are hardy creatures, being able to translate Vogon poetry (the third worst poetry in the Universe) with ease.

Darkfalz and Mysterman . . . exactly. What remains for students of this stuff is to understand why that plays out in the mind of the electorate the way it does.

It’s like polling figures. Yes, they give an indication of how the electorate will vote and of what a possible election outcome will be. But, those numbers, of themselves, tell you precious little as to why those numbers are the way they are. (In crude terms, it’s ‘ideology’).

It was quite refreshing to hear the howls of outrage from the opposition as they were called by Rudd on the witless ‘policy’ positions they’ve been taking.

I hope the election is delayed as long as possible, much of the shadow front bench are dunces who need a shake up and to be made to think about what they are saying.

Whatever gets you through the night, howeph. If you need an intellectual wheelchair ramp and a hand rail to start get a handle on a proposition, then go for it. I must admit, I did ponder at the time if I was typing slowly enough.

I was merely trying to make an effort to add to collective knowledge and explain some ‘why’s’ (using one example). It was an invitation to RA-ers to think a little deeper. But, I guess you can only splash in the puddles. That’s fine, but you’ll miss out on critical nuances if that’s your only party trick.

Or are you one of those 23 year old advisors, who have done so much damage to policy development in this nation? The reduction of knowledge to the simplistic in a one-page Brief of dot-points? Back to uni for you and, this time, try and read some Scarbrough, or Reynolds, or any of the political sociologists who have examined the field in Westminster / Washminister democracies.

Feel free to plug the above into your Babel Fish with it set on ‘simplistic’ as well.

Countries get the governments/leaders they deserve, according to philospher/scholar Joseph de Maistre.

And, although I’m far less learned, I agree.

Rudd is a narcissistic, self absorbed lunatic. Sadly, this is emblematic of the polling majority, many of whom are uneduacated, unlearned and focussed on fat cheques (underwritten by the taxes of the few) and empty cheesey sound bites.

As a life-long Labor voter, I give up. The bogan majority has eaten its own young and now deserves everything it gets.

Darkfalz said :

I’m convinced that Rudd bogans all think the $900 cheques are coming back. I had people posting words to that effect on my Facebook yesterday. They’re that ignorant of the state of the economy that all started with Rudd’s irresponsible cash splashes in 2008. But that move has bought him so much goodwill with the great unwashed that he’s never completely lost his sheen.

What worries me is that people under the influence of such mind-numbingly wrong information qualify to participate in elections to choose our next government.

Here are a few facts Alan Jones has neglected to mention to you:
– the $900 checques were *internationally* recognised (with hindsight) as part of the Australian government’s world-leadingly successful response to the GFC
– Australia’s foreign debt isn’t just minute compared with other 1st-world nations, but our deficit is running *below* CPI, meaning it isn’t even a deficit in real terms
– The pink batts scheme was hugely successful, making a concrete difference to Australia’s energy budget, AND, houses it affected were *less likely* to experience house fires than houses having insulation installed outside the scheme
– The carbon tax resulted in increased profits for electricity-generating companies AND reduced CO2 emissions.

I could go on, but I think I will summarise the rest thusly: If Abbot or any of his fellow-goblins’ lips are moving, they are lying.

Darkfalz said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummm, you are a Alan jones listener, right?

Your supposed irresponsible cash splashes where whatever kept Australia out of recession.

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I don’t listen to Alan Jones. 300bn worth of debt (not just spending, but spending beyond intake) was not required to prevent recession. We should have run increasingly small, manageable deficits. We went into the GFC on the back of a decade of surpluses and zero government debt. The increase in debt since has been massive. Calling it “small” because it’s been building for 5 years and not 20+ like USA/Europe is stupid. It is the rate of increase and obvious unsustainability that is the problem – particularly as the resources boom winds down.

Gillard has a clear tin ear for politics. She made many blunders and refused to acknowledge any of them, even beyond the normal spin you expect from politicians. She broke several promises (including the carbon tax one) and similarly didn’t apologise and even pretended for some time she never lied. Her condescending, question avoiding manner in QT always irritated me. She refused to take any responsibility for her role on the AWU scandal, or even admit poor judgement, whilst metering it out to journalists who brought it up or other players involved. She hyped up a fake gender war again and again even when it started backfiring, going all the way to the US style “they’ll take away your abortion rights” levels of ridiculousness. I don’t think calling people ugly, poodle, misogynist, old horse, simpleton and so on are becoming of the parliament or prime minister. On top of this she frequently accused others of personal attacks. A nasty piece of work all around.

That’s a pretty accurate assessment, IMO. I’m glad you touched on her performances during QT. The contrast between her willful refusal to provide even a semblance of an answer, instead choosing to insult and ridicule, and Rudd’s performance yesterday in which he did (for the most part) provide answers and seek to highlight differences between government and opposition policy was both refreshing and astounding. She was the greatest purveyor of “reckless negativity” (a phrase she was ironically fond of) in the House, with the possible exception of Swan. The two of them definitely contributed their fair share towards lowering the overall tone of discourse in the chamber.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Ummm, you are a Alan jones listener, right?

Your supposed irresponsible cash splashes where whatever kept Australia out of recession.

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I don’t listen to Alan Jones. 300bn worth of debt (not just spending, but spending beyond intake) was not required to prevent recession. We should have run increasingly small, manageable deficits. We went into the GFC on the back of a decade of surpluses and zero government debt. The increase in debt since has been massive. Calling it “small” because it’s been building for 5 years and not 20+ like USA/Europe is stupid. It is the rate of increase and obvious unsustainability that is the problem – particularly as the resources boom winds down.

Gillard has a clear tin ear for politics. She made many blunders and refused to acknowledge any of them, even beyond the normal spin you expect from politicians. She broke several promises (including the carbon tax one) and similarly didn’t apologise and even pretended for some time she never lied. Her condescending, question avoiding manner in QT always irritated me. She refused to take any responsibility for her role on the AWU scandal, or even admit poor judgement, whilst metering it out to journalists who brought it up or other players involved. She hyped up a fake gender war again and again even when it started backfiring, going all the way to the US style “they’ll take away your abortion rights” levels of ridiculousness. I don’t think calling people ugly, poodle, misogynist, old horse, simpleton and so on are becoming of the parliament or prime minister. On top of this she frequently accused others of personal attacks. A nasty piece of work all around.

Rudd is a complete wanker. Narcissist, egotist, psychopath are all accurate descriptions of this guy. I’ve never seen anyone quite so sanctimonious, or to use so many words to say so little. I like a plain speaker that speaks their mind, even when it’s not particularly popular, and whose actions are consistent with their values, not an actor playing the part of statesman (and one with unlimited money to hand out).

I still think the Libs will win, not quite as comfortably but considering the changes in rhetoric on asylum seekers and the carbon tax I suspect the the current incarnation of the Labor party will be less resistive to the changes the Libs will push through. Could be wishful thinking but we will see. I’ll be furious if the election is pushed out any later than September 14 though.

Translation:

triffid said :

I reckon I can, and in terms consistent with the work of Elinor Scarbrough (and the scant few other surviving political sociologists). For instance, north of the Rio Tweed, there were many people — who might be regarded as Labor ‘sympathisers’, or who were more predisposed to voting in that manner — who regarded the Gillard takeover as a demonstration of reprehensable behaviour. Those same people were prone — in recent weeks — to point out that Rudd’s primary polling rarely dragged below a 41 average, while Gillard’s remained moribund and flat-lined at 33 for well over two years.They view Rudd’s ‘reinstatement’ as the ‘righting of a gross wrong / injustice.’

Many Queenslanders didn’t like the way Gillard replaced Rudd, a fellow Queenslander. Rudd’s reinstatement fixed that.

triffid said :

They were put on the back foot from the outset and regarded many of her supporters in Cabinet with similar derision. (As an aside, it is reasonable to entertain the notion that, as Treasurer, Swan faced a real battle in Lilley. Now, as simply Wayne from Clayfield, the Labor incumbent, he’ll probably be over the line safely).

They [Queenslanders] also didn’t like most of her Cabinet misters either for the same reason. Wayne Swan (also a Queenslander) should find it easier to get elected again now.

triffid said :

The policy pronouncements of Gillard didn’t resonate with those people either. Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. The affect of which serves to ‘dial up’ the effects of cognitve dissonance. Everything that thus came from the Government was rejected until, finally, they even stopped listening.

Nobody can give any reasons why people didn’t like the Gillard government’s policy announcements. They just rejected everything and stopped listening.

triffid said :

Did they hate her? It’s a strong word, but many of the peolple I interact with in those parts did and with a passion. Do they have sympathy for her now? Funnily enough, yes.

They hated her. Now they don’t.

triffid said :

Not a complete answer, ‘cos that’d be a PhD. And a dull one at that. Because it’d need to be couched in the concepts of ideology in a reference frame that would befuddle those who’s only understanding of that term is linear.

No body knows why they hatted her so much, but you could use some really big words to make it sound like you do.

triffid said :

And while I these days merely sit back and observe the machinations of politics (being an operative is a mug’s game I decided), the thing that drives me insane is the general lack of sophistication of thought by most observers of that game, who have little actual qualification (mine’s in Poli Sci and stil, only a decade old) knowledge, experience, history (five decades and counting), memory and, thus, wisdom to make a comment (I’m looking at you, you 23 year old advisors who can’t be told anything and have experienced even less).

It’s all to hard.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd12:12 pm 28 Jun 13

Yes but what did she do, besides dumb party in fighting, what did she do that half wits blindly hate her? Look how we’ll Australia is going.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

Gillard need more Borgen and less bogan.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Don’t get me wrong, I dislike all pollies, but I dislike even more, morons who ejaculate lies, misinformation and pure ignorance.

I agree with your other comments, but I just want to pull you up on the above.

We hear a lot of general statements like “I dislike all pollies” or that “they are all liars”, “just in it for their own self interest”. We daily hear unsubstantiated claims that politicians are hopeless, untrustworthy, incompetent, dishonest, laughable or dysfunctional.

I don’t think this level of mistrust is warranted. Take the time to listen or read some of the valedictory speeches given over the last couple of weeks from members of both sides of Parliament and the cross benches. It is clear that these are coming from people who entered politics with heartfelt desires to make Australia a better place. They proud of their successes achieved and regret the failures.

There is an unhealthy, irrational level of scepticism present, and growing, in Australia.

Statement like “I dislike all pollies” gives license to the Allen Jones’, Howard Sattlers’, Ray Hadley’s and their supporters to make the untruthful, pillorying statements that you dislike. However if we want to raise the standard of debate, then we must walk the walk, not just talk the talk. These statements also set low expectations for the politicians themselves, making it harder to effectively call out truly bad behaviour by a politician when it really does occur.

Everyone should question their politicians policies, statements and actions; but we should avoid making it personal – especially general, sweeping statements of disdain.

* http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4070694.html

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

I reckon I can, and in terms consistent with the work of Elinor Scarbrough (and the scant few other surviving political sociologists). For instance, north of the Rio Tweed, there were many people — who might be regarded as Labor ‘sympathisers’, or who were more predisposed to voting in that manner — who regarded the Gillard takeover as a demonstration of reprehensable behaviour. Those same people were prone — in recent weeks — to point out that Rudd’s primary polling rarely dragged below a 41 average, while Gillard’s remained moribund and flat-lined at 33 for well over two years.They view Rudd’s ‘reinstatement’ as the ‘righting of a gross wrong / injustice.’

They were put on the back foot from the outset and regarded many of her supporters in Cabinet with similar derision. (As an aside, it is reasonable to entertain the notion that, as Treasurer, Swan faced a real battle in Lilley. Now, as simply Wayne from Clayfield, the Labor incumbent, he’ll probably be over the line safely).

The policy pronouncements of Gillard didn’t resonate with those people either. Those announcements represented something — mainly in a semiotic sense — that ‘jarred’ with their ideological / ontological / epitomolgical predisposition. The affect of which serves to ‘dial up’ the effects of cognitve dissonance. Everything that thus came from the Government was rejected until, finally, they even stopped listening.

Did they hate her? It’s a strong word, but many of the peolple I interact with in those parts did and with a passion. Do they have sympathy for her now? Funnily enough, yes.

Not a complete answer, ‘cos that’d be a PhD. And a dull one at that. Because it’d need to be couched in the concepts of ideology in a reference frame that would befuddle those who’s only understanding of that term is linear.

And while I these days merely sit back and observe the machinations of politics (being an operative is a mug’s game I decided), the thing that drives me insane is the general lack of sophistication of thought by most observers of that game, who have little actual qualification (mine’s in Poli Sci and stil, only a decade old) knowledge, experience, history (five decades and counting), memory and, thus, wisdom to make a comment (I’m looking at you, you 23 year old advisors who can’t be told anything and have experienced even less).

Darkfalz said :

howeph said :

The electorate – wrongly in my opinion – hated Julia Gillard. The electorate likes Kevin.

The electorate turned on Gillard. Knifing sentiments aside, they didn’t start off hating her. But she gave us all plenty of reason and then refused to back down or apologise for any of them.

Rudd is a true car salesman. Sells you an absolute lemon and sends you away thinking you got a great deal – until it all blows up in a few months or year time.

I’m convinced that Rudd bogans all think the $900 cheques are coming back. I had people posting words to that effect on my Facebook yesterday. They’re that ignorant of the state of the economy that all started with Rudd’s irresponsible cash splashes in 2008. But that move has bought him so much goodwill with the great unwashed that he’s never completely lost his sheen.

LOL,
I think you’ll find most of the great unwashed are right behind Abbott and his magical wand waving surplus making, tax cutting and boat turning ability.

Rudd and Gillard did some ridiculously silly things but their overall economic performance hasn’t been one of them. Sure we could be doing better but we are in a relatively good economic position.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:25 pm 27 Jun 13

Darkfalz said :

howeph said :

The electorate – wrongly in my opinion – hated Julia Gillard. The electorate likes Kevin.

The electorate turned on Gillard. Knifing sentiments aside, they didn’t start off hating her. But she gave us all plenty of reason and then refused to back down or apologise for any of them.

Rudd is a true car salesman. Sells you an absolute lemon and sends you away thinking you got a great deal – until it all blows up in a few months or year time.

I’m convinced that Rudd bogans all think the $900 cheques are coming back. I had people posting words to that effect on my Facebook yesterday. They’re that ignorant of the state of the economy that all started with Rudd’s irresponsible cash splashes in 2008. But that move has bought him so much goodwill with the great unwashed that he’s never completely lost his sheen.

Ummm, you are a Alan jones listener, right?

Your supposed irresponsible cash splashes where whatever kept Australia out of recession.

Also, can you give actual reasons why Australians supposedly hate Gillard.(if you use the term juliar you are automatically banned from the interwebs).

Don’t get me wrong, I dislike all pollies, but I dislike even more, morons who ejaculate lies, misinformation and pure ignorance.

Faced with obliteration what choice did Labor seriously have,after all the prospect of losing 30 to 40 seats was just unthinkable. Better to have a megalomaniac at the helm who has the capacity to limit the damage than commit seppuku!

Kevin finished off his spiel with a wooden “…and now let’s start cooking with gas” or some similar awfulness. :rolleyes: It was worse than any of Gillard’s wooden spiels. It was so wooden and rehearsed I felt like I was getting splinters from being near the TV.

He obviously felt he didn’t get a fair shake of the sauce bottle! Nobody has sucked his saveloy! As a connoisseur of the Australian vernacular I shakes me head in dismay.

howeph said :

The electorate – wrongly in my opinion – hated Julia Gillard. The electorate likes Kevin.

The electorate turned on Gillard. Knifing sentiments aside, they didn’t start off hating her. But she gave us all plenty of reason and then refused to back down or apologise for any of them.

Rudd is a true car salesman. Sells you an absolute lemon and sends you away thinking you got a great deal – until it all blows up in a few months or year time.

I’m convinced that Rudd bogans all think the $900 cheques are coming back. I had people posting words to that effect on my Facebook yesterday. They’re that ignorant of the state of the economy that all started with Rudd’s irresponsible cash splashes in 2008. But that move has bought him so much goodwill with the great unwashed that he’s never completely lost his sheen.

wildturkeycanoe4:58 pm 27 Jun 13

Grrrr said :

It does not matter which way you vote. Either way your planet is doomed. Doomed. Doomed!

Agreed. As long as Kevy57 can sugarcoat our impending apocalypse so I feel good about it.

It does not matter which way you vote. Either way your planet is doomed. Doomed. Doomed!

I was watching it all unfold last night, and by the time K-Rizzle finally came out to give a media statement at 10:45 I was reminded of his talent for public speaking. I don’t know if this is a magic Abbott-killing bullet, but at least we’re less likely to have to Libs mob the upper and lower houses, so hopefully in the event of a Coalition government they won’t have free reign to pass whatever they want.

Shouldn’t they have photoshopped his head onto Jamie Lannister’s body?

HiddenDragon11:50 am 27 Jun 13

The positive things which have been said about Julia Gillard suggest that she could have been a very good chief of staff for a Prime Minister who was actually palatable to the Australian public – a state of grace which she achieved fleetingly, and in her efforts to regain it, only compounded her problems.

Just hurry up and call an election date to allow Australian’s to make a decision and not faceless self-serving public servants.

johnboy said :

You think kevin’s still got integrity after the last three years of unbridled lust for power?

Gollum Gollum

No, I don’t think that he’s still got much integrity left after three years of undermining his own party. But that doesn’t matter.

What matters is what the electorate thinks.

The electorate – wrongly in my opinion – hated Julia Gillard. The electorate likes Kevin. The electorate doesn’t like Abbott.

I think that it stinks, but Labor made the right decision last night in the interest of putting up a decent fight at the upcoming election. It’s called pragmatism over idealism.

wildturkeycanoe said :

I think this is the best thing for the Labor party. Julia was not going to win after her backflips and lies, not to mention the backstabbing that put her in charge. Kevin won the last election on his integrity and got us through the GFC pretty much unscathed. Why do people think that he has no chance with a proven record of great governing? He’s a much better choice for PM than anyone else out there at the moment and Mr Abbot should be scared.

backstabbing – you mean, just like Rudd has done (and, for that matter, Abbot did)

great governing… depends on whether you listen to the public servants/people who work with him, or people residing in far far away Queensland

Still, I agree that JG wasnt going to win and that Ruddbot has a far better chance. Whether I can cope with Abbott and Rudd at the same time I’m not sure

The way i see it, Rudd is a step up from either Abbott or Gillard winning the election. The brush they use to tarnish each other regarding lies etc can be applied to all politicians. it is extremely naive to think Abbott or Gillard never said anything that was untrue, purely to aid in improving their chances to become or keep being the PM. Most of politics has very little to do with what is good for the country, because often what is good for the country is not popular and thus never legislated.

wildturkeycanoe9:43 am 27 Jun 13

I think this is the best thing for the Labor party. Julia was not going to win after her backflips and lies, not to mention the backstabbing that put her in charge. Kevin won the last election on his integrity and got us through the GFC pretty much unscathed. Why do people think that he has no chance with a proven record of great governing? He’s a much better choice for PM than anyone else out there at the moment and Mr Abbot should be scared.

You think kevin’s still got integrity after the last three years of unbridled lust for power?

Gollum Gollum

interesting poll on Fairfax media least night

72% of respondents believed Rudd could win the election. That was out of 30,000 responses.

Obviously not representative but Abbott is right to be nervous. He knows it will soon become obvious that he is now the most hated leader in Australia, not the second most hated

johnboy said :

Well Napoleon has returned from Elba, but will he get 100 days before Waterloo?

Will there be a Kink in his Waterloo sunset?

Dirty old river, must you keep rolling?

I’m impressed Labor thinks it can disown its own train wreck performance, bungle after bungle and temeritous in-fighting and with a second last minute “someone else did it” leader change in as many elections. They are playing the electorate not just for fools, but for complete morons.

I hope the Australian people are better than to fall for that (and deliver anything but a crushing defeat of Labor) but I am sadly not assured of it.

If you believe any incarnation of the current Labor government deserves to lead the country, good luck to you.

It appears Tony Abbott was crapping himself. Guy looked nervous as hell, he was rocking back and forth on the balls of his feet at one point, sure sign of anxiety.

Not much has changed in three years……

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OTV6TW93hs

The Traineediplomat9:09 pm 26 Jun 13

My money is on President Kodos

Well Napoleon has returned from Elba, but will he get 100 days before Waterloo?

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