25 December 2008

Rudd's thousand dollar Chrissy present

| tastyjam
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A friend of mine recently got a cool thousand dollars in his bank account without knowing why or who. We considered that maybe his mother transferred it in as an early Chrissy present, or maybe just because she was a little high. We also considered that it could be part of Kevin Rudd’s thousand dollar economical security payouts, but given he’s 19 years old and not receiving benefits, it didn’t really seem to fit the bill. I googled Kev’s payout and couldn’t find anything that would indicate that he would be eligible.

Surely enough, though, soon he got a letter in the mail from Centrelink claiming responsibility for the thousand dollar payout. It claimed that he was eligible for this payout because he was receiving Youth Allowance on October the 14th 2008.

I then compared myself, who didn’t get the payout, to my friend who did. He is literally one day younger than me and we have both at one point in time, received Youth Allowance. The only difference between us is that I began full time employment last year and have been working full-time ever since, thus being ineligible for Youth Allowance, while he has a casual job at McDonalds and still gets the benefits.

My point in this rant is; why does the eligibility for this payment depend solely on whether the individual was receiving Youth Allowance on a particular date? Youth Allowance is paid to a variety of people, some mean well and are studying or just doing it tough, but others are just too lazy to get a full time job – and these people will be rewarded with a thousand dollar payout. To me, than plan is a little flawed.

[ED (Kramer) – Not entirely Canberra related, but it’s a really, really slow news day. So back to the beer and prawns!]

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Dexi, why don’t you go plant trees for landcare, indirectly they are part of the gov. who pay you, therefore you should be able to trust them……

I see it as improving our home lives, as well as creating employment.

What about just giving everyone one afternoon off a week = that shouldn’t send us all broke or ruin productivity.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:15 pm 30 Dec 08

France has a capped working week, and their productivity sucks. Making everyone lazy is not the answer.

PB, I wondered who else would pick up those two sentences, especially the last one.

Pommy bastard6:58 pm 30 Dec 08

sepi said :

But i am a fan of making everyone do a 4 day week.

Even Dexi?

BTW Dexi, how will you know if you’ve found an “employer you trust” enough to start working again?

Especially as you are; “long term unemployed who cant/wont participate in work.”

DJ, did I fail to indicate in my various posts as to whether or not the stand I take in general and thus did not ‘dob’ them in?

I’ve helped the system by ‘dobbing’ in the cheats. However the system doesn’t help itself with the information as I’ve then watched them still get the benefits.

So you tell me.

sepi said :

Dexi i think overtime is pretty much a thing of the past these days.

But i am a fan of making everyone do a 4 day week. It would open up more jobs, and also free up some childcare spots.

….and send wages through the floor. Subtract 1/5 of your salary and see how your mortgage payments go

nyssa76 said :

Genie, there are many who rort the system with medical certificates because they don’t want to work, however if you’re applying for 10 a week then kudos to you.

I know of a few people who have borrowed canes, wheelchairs etc just to get money from Centrelink. They are the ones ruining the process for others.

I also know of a few legit cases that were turned down because idiots like the ones I mentioned above rort the system.

Did you report them? While I see your point if you did nothing then you are not helping the system are you?

Dexi i think overtime is pretty much a thing of the past these days.

But i am a fan of making everyone do a 4 day week. It would open up more jobs, and also free up some childcare spots.

Genie, there are many who rort the system with medical certificates because they don’t want to work, however if you’re applying for 10 a week then kudos to you.

I know of a few people who have borrowed canes, wheelchairs etc just to get money from Centrelink. They are the ones ruining the process for others.

I also know of a few legit cases that were turned down because idiots like the ones I mentioned above rort the system.

fnaah – I have an injury that limits me to what I can and cant do. I have also applied for a wide variety of jobs of what I know are within my limits. (Yes even though I have medical certificates saying I shouldn’t be working, and what I am limited to doing – I still apply for up to 10 jobs every week, wanna know how many I hear back from – ZERO)

Hmmmm – You clearly have never worked in fast food places if you think they don’t involve heavy lifting. I spent my college years doing just that

There are a number of incorrect assertions about the military in the previous 2 statements (#69 and #70).

Myself, I would prefer a middle-ground approach. Make them not military, but allow the military to help them*. Disciplines such as personal hygiene, ironing, cooking, cleaning, sewing, and mustering the strength to get my sorry ass out of bed at 6am in the morning were things I LEARNT while in the military. These attributes have been quite beneficial in a job opportunity sense, when looked at in context.

On point of semantic – Every role in the ADF with the exception of Defence Civilian comes with the requirement to use a weapon proficiently. That they use a weapon regularly, appears to be more appropriate #70.

*I’m deliberately being vague as I am not engaging further on this topic. My input here is merely in defence of Military life.

Unemployable? Why so?

Perhaps if you’re very short or cannot lift things due to medical reasons, shelf-packing may not be an option, but it looks like you have a working knowledge of the English language – have you looked at help desk/call centre? Practically every fast food joint has a “staff wanted” sign out the front these days, and those jobs don’t involve lifting.

Why is everyone relating the ADF to giving people guns !? There are 1000’s of job opportunities in the ADF and very few of them use guns.

The ‘poor me’ excuse doesn’t cut it. There are jobs out there but not many people want to stack shelves or worse because ‘it’s below them’. A job is a job. A job gives people dignity and does not tie them to the dole.

Nyssa – do you know what its like to be told your unemployable !? I would quite happily stack shelves if I could – I have several mates who do it and earn more than what an APS job could offer, and I’m a night owl so I wouldn’t even have a problem with the hours. I would do any job if I could get one. Unemployment is my only option at the moment. I’d like to think I am in the minority of people who actually deserve to be on the dole at the moment.

we need more people in the ADF

Um, what for? Oh, right, to hold back those ravenous imperialist Indonesians who are constantly invading. Of course.

Instead of “volunteering” people into the Army so they can get fit and learn how to shoot things, why don’t we volunteer them into a SCHOOL so they can LEARN things. We need bright minds and creative thinkers, not riflemen who have had every skerrit of independent thought hoovered out of them.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:25 am 30 Dec 08

I wasn’t suggesting we make all the unemployed join the military – the last thing many of these people need is access to guns!

Im well aware of people holding their own thoughts. The thought that we should lower/abolish the dole and force people into work/army is as old as the penny. Its not a different thought just the same OLD rhetoric. What’s different about that thinking. If challenging this makes me not nice, then I guess VYbelina or santa will sort me out.

I see a total lack of interest in debating dropping wages and overtime as a solution to creating real jobs. Not just the jobs a teenager would find dull. Some people might find this idea insulting.

Who am I. I am long term unemployed who cant/wont participate in work. So I guess that makes me all thing not nice. But it does allow me to make statements about what its like to be on welfare. You can call me lazy but I’m not a bludger. Ill return to work when I find an employer I trust.

I’m ok with being drug free and unemployed.

With the GST, does not the government get back 10% of the 10Billion when it’s spent (except for dexi’s friends who don’t pay tax on drugs). I just read all the above, and just who IS this dexi person? Doesn’t sound very nice, and certainly does not like anyone to think differently. One of those peolle I call a statement maker … not many questions come from there. I saw a show on ABC’s Catalyst the other week and they showed how-and-when (thru tests) kiddies had the penny drop and realised that oher people did not think exactly the same as them … mind awareness, I think they called it. Penny dropped yet dexi?

oh, and for the record, I was in the ADF. I was a blue grunt.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

How many military people are there? How many are uneducated, crazy torturers?

Thin argument.

quite the contrary. the people who are in the adf are not randomly accepted. if we threw all the unemployed people into the forces, would we have another hoddle street? I agree with thumper. if I am in a foxhole, I want to be sure the bloke next to me won’t shoot me between the eyes as soon as look at me. there are stringent requirements and psych / physical tests to get in. They are there for a reason.

making the unemployed join up won’t get us anywhere. getting the unemployed into skills programs that address our current skills shortages has a better outcome – we gain the skills we need, and the unemployed get a job.

win win.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:32 pm 29 Dec 08

How many military people are there? How many are uneducated, crazy torturers?

Thin argument.

It was the untrained former low income military (ex maccas workers) who turned into torturers at Gitmo Bay.

Not really a ringing endorsement for slinging anyone you can find into the military.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:35 pm 29 Dec 08

The ‘poor me’ excuse doesn’t cut it. There are jobs out there but not many people want to stack shelves or worse because ‘it’s below them’. A job is a job. A job gives people dignity and does not tie them to the dole.

I agree. I did some really scummy jobs as a teenager and younger man, while I was studying. I tell teens I know now about one particular job I did, and they almost always respond with “I’d NEVER do that job”. What a bunch of sad, soft weenies, we’ve raised. Doing scummy jobs was one of the main things that motivated me to get through uni and get a job that is really well paid, and I like doing. How are people ever supposed to be hungry enough to get off their arses if they won’t start low?

dexi, no I won’t be on the dole.

I won’t demean myself. I’d scrub toilets before I’d get the dole.

I’ve got enough qualifications – I will get more – and experience in various areas outside my current job, to assist my ‘job seeking’ should I choose to leave teaching. However, I will make sure I have a job to go to beforehand, thus negating the need for the dole.

The ‘poor me’ excuse doesn’t cut it. There are jobs out there but not many people want to stack shelves or worse because ‘it’s below them’. A job is a job. A job gives people dignity and does not tie them to the dole.

For some jobs you don’t need qualifications and nowdays people are hiring mature apprentices.

Here’s a novel thought, anyone who works should get a tax break thus negating the dole 🙂

As for the world really needs more people with the discipline to take a human life. are you serious?

The ADF teaches people how to defend our country and in such gives you the democratic right to slag them off.

FYI shooting someone is a LAST resort.

To get back to my original post in this thread, there is no excuse for someone like my sister (who is 30yo) with a child in school to be sitting on her arse getting Govt assistance because she is too LAZY to work.

Oh and the world really needs more people with the discipline to take a human life.

I think more people in the ADF is a good idea and would provide much needed discipline and work ethic that is missing from society plus a good dose of reality would harden up some of the pathetic softies out there not to mention the hard and enforced stand regarding drugs.

Oh DJ you are awesome ! This is what my sad little brain has been trying to put into words !!

Sure you do Nyssa, but you still feel the need to kick fellow subsistence dwellers.

“general aren’t ‘rewarded’ for working anymore.”
Then in general workers should see their scumbag bosses.

Working people are doing alright in this town. I would say they are well rewarded. They could easily afford 15% less. Yet its the poor stupid you want to have less and give more.

When stuff falls apart and you can’t work the dole will feed you. Long live the dole.

Oh and I should say PRIORITISING – food vs. Plasma TV.

DJ, no I’m not living beyond my means. In fact, I’m saving up for a deposit on a house.

In order to get to my work from home, I’d have to leave at 6am to start at 8:30am, but I can afford to put petrol in my car. It’s called BUDGETING.

nyssa76 said :

dexi, what about the ‘working poor’?

I for one can’t afford to go to the dentist at all and I work. This is despite my taxes paying for the cheap dentist that most people on benefits attend.

If I was on benefits I’d have no problem.

Perhaps that’s the way to go. No one is ‘rewarded’ for working anymore, it’s all a cop-out. Why work when it’s cheaper to dole bludge?

For a person of your profession I think you may need help – are you living beyond your means?

Today you pretty much have to have private health cover so you should get what feels like 5% back (depending on what you get done) and since your workplace is on a bus route you miss out on some expenses there…

I think more people in the ADF is a good idea and would provide much needed discipline and work ethic that is missing from society plus a good dose of reality would harden up some of the pathetic softies out there not to mention the hard and enforced stand regarding drugs.

Genie, here here. However with the ADF they wouldn’t last long as it would require them to actually work

Yeah so true…. !!!

Coz what the military really want Genie is a bunch of unmotivated people who really don’t want to be there and are using up all the training resources of those who do.

You’d be surprised… Maybe not force them to sign up, But at least manditory attendance to seminars or open days to try it out themselves. The method works in the US, recruiters get gang bangers to sign up off the streets for a minimum of 6-12months. They love it and stay in the service.

If I could pass the medicals, I myself would join the defence force over currently being on unemployment benefits.

Coz what the military really want Genie is a bunch of unmotivated people who really don’t want to be there and are using up all the training resources of those who do.

dexi, I have two jobs. There are jobs if people want to work. I used to delivery drive and stack shelves at night. I also work 60hrs on a wage – being unpaid for 22hrs as God forbid teachers were paid for the hours they actually worked and I also work another 10hrs a week as a tutor.

A 12 month waiting list for free dental paid for by the taxpayer? Poor thing.

Here’s one for you dexi, try $450 a fortnight with FULL rent (not Govvie housing either) and 5 people to support.

I did it, so stop whinging. Oh and I did it without Govt handouts and without going to a dentist for three years.

I don’t feel unrewarded for my work, if you read it carefully I said workers in general aren’t ‘rewarded’ for working anymore.

They should be rewarded as without their taxes, your $412 wouldn’t be there each pay day.

Genie, here here. However with the ADF they wouldn’t last long as it would require them to actually work.

Nyssa be thankful you can work. Dental takes twelve months on a health care card to be put on a waiting list. At $412 a fortnight you do the maths and I doubt you would be ahead.

But using your sentiments, you sound like a working poor bludger. You should work harder longer and have good teeth. You could look elsewhere to cast your blame. Instead of calling for a 25% cut in benefit and a forced $10hr working supplement (not a very well thought out plan vybelina) maybe the working average could take a 15% cut in wage and reduce their overtime. You might find that the working poor would benefit from that.

If you feel unrewarded for your work take it up with your scumbag boss.

How many times do you all need to be told. The dole/sickness benefits are crap and offer nothing more than food and maybe shelter. Your welcome to try it out. I can guarantee you wont enjoy the experience.

Forcing people (at gunpoint?) to work or into the army? Forcing mothers into the workforce after their children reach school age? Sounds like a bit of whacky, totalitarian fun.

What is wrong with ‘pushing’ people towards the defence force !? We need more people in the defence force. Naturally they would still need to go throught the proper recruiting channels by passing medical and physicals etc….. But there is no harm in suggesting to people who have been on the dole for WAY too long – get your arse into the ADF.

As for forcing mothers back into the workforce as soon as the children reach school age…. HELL YES this should be happening !!! Why should they still be entitled to full benefits while their children attend school? Parenting payments are there to help people out while they ARENT working to look after their children, One the kids go back to schoool they can quite easily go out and get a part time job during school hours. Or a few days a week… Most schools have after school care available.

Pommy bastard1:44 pm 29 Dec 08

I agree with the post above

dexi, what about the ‘working poor’?

I for one can’t afford to go to the dentist at all and I work. This is despite my taxes paying for the cheap dentist that most people on benefits attend.

If I was on benefits I’d have no problem.

Perhaps that’s the way to go. No one is ‘rewarded’ for working anymore, it’s all a cop-out. Why work when it’s cheaper to dole bludge?

fnaah said :

However, seeing idiots get money hand over fist for doing nothing really pisses me off.

… what, like the big banks?

The banks do something with the money. They return to investors, pay bonuses, and invest it in more money making. This produces all kind of luxuries for the few that benefit.

On benefits you do nothing. That’s right nothing. $210 buys you nothing but food and maybe shelter. When its gone there is nothing left. Everything costs money that you don’t have. When something breaks you go with nothing. When your tooth hurts you wait it out. All you have is time and nothing. That and cheap crap from china.

I would love to replace the screaming nothingness inside, if only for a day or an hour. But I cant because I have nothing to replace it with. So I guess Ill sit here and wait another week with my hand out, with nothing in the bank, and nothing to do.

I could spend the week needlessly attacking the weak and stupid for being weak stupid bastards. That would be something.

However, seeing idiots get money hand over fist for doing nothing really pisses me off.

… what, like the big banks?

Pommy bastard7:13 am 29 Dec 08

Of course govt payments should instead go to those who would spend it on tobacco, alcohol and cheap crap from China.

Government payments to people who spend the money on consumer items is middle class welfare. Tax money should go to those who are REALLY struggling. not those who think struggling means less eat-out meals per week and not being able to have the latest plasma.

2604 said :

Applause for tom-tom @38 & Deadmandrinking @39. Nice to see some sanity return to this thread.

Forcing people (at gunpoint?) to work or into the army? Forcing mothers into the workforce after their children reach school age? Sounds like a bit of whacky, totalitarian fun.

and so it begins….

you cannot force people into the ADF. the nutjobs that could get in would make it far more dangerous for everyone else. Forcing mothers into the workforce? already happening. childcare is way too expensive. My wife and I received, as I have already mentioned, 3k from this scheme. My wife works weekends, I work days and 4 and a half hours at night during the week. I am a ghost to my children during the week. I am with them full time at weekends.

and the dole isn’t great, not by a long shot. try out the following situation and see if you can hack it:

red cross kitchen used to be open every single night. I know, I ate there. I had no money for rent, so they put me on the “emergency list” and chucked me into ainslie village.

The village takes a half of your dole. $212 a week, try that amount per fortnight. now, take away half, and then try and catch buses to interviews, dry cleaning, lunch during the day, toiletries, etc, etc.

not a lot of fun. the people who are raking in big bucks, are cheating the system. big time. good luck to them. I hope they get caught. rudd’s present went into the bank against our mortgage. If I have a lean month, and no big sales, I am covered a payment.

I have mentioned previously that I have a medical condition. the cost of treatment from the US is over $11k per annum. needs to be done. PBS doesn’t cover it.

Applause for tom-tom @38 & Deadmandrinking @39. Nice to see some sanity return to this thread.

Forcing people (at gunpoint?) to work or into the army? Forcing mothers into the workforce after their children reach school age? Sounds like a bit of whacky, totalitarian fun.

Deadmandrinking10:09 pm 28 Dec 08

So, from what I can establish here…do you people earn about $212 a week? Bloody hell! I think I’ll avoid the PS!

You may not get all the miniscule benefits that people on PENSIONS (yes, that’s what the payout was for)get, those bloodsucking veteran disabled scumbags – but, um, aren’t you earning money? You cannot tell me that you end up with the same amount of money these people do after you’ve paid for all the little benefits that pensioners and veterans get for free. Remember, they still have to pay the rent (rent assistance doesn’t cover most rent – max you’ll get is about $100 a fortnight I think), the bills (a minor concession does apply) and feed themselves.

i work and pay taxes and dont get any govt assistance but in return i got an education, roads, hospitals and a defence force so i think i’ve gotten a pretty good deal. if the govt. wants to give any leftovers to people who need it more than i do then i’m okay with that too.

VY – I agree 100% !!

Pommy bastard8:50 am 28 Dec 08

I agree with post 32 above.

What about those eligable for youth allowance.. and yet arent taking it?

less than 1000 bucks that is…

they should have given the thousand bucks to all taxpayers who paid more than 10g in tax last year and recieved a return of less than 100 bucks…….at least that would have made me eligible….LOL

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy7:52 pm 27 Dec 08

What is needed is a way to motivate people. Make the dole cheap – say $150 a week, and offer $80 a day for every day someone turns up to work 8 hours. Get the dole workers to do community projects, and their attendance can earn them training credits. Give them sick leave. For people with a genuine medical injury or disability, give them a decent amount and look after them properly, that’s our responsibility as a civilised society.

Finally, get the people who really just won’t work, and put them in boot camp. How do we decide who goes to boot camp? Give me that job. After the BS I saw growing up in a working (and not) class neighbourhood, my sympathy for these people will extend to one chance. Screw it up and your outta here…

When is the Govt going to stop being a dependent parent and stop paying these fools? Why would they ever want to help themselves when they can get ‘FREE’ money from the Govt every fortnight?

I agree that Centrelink really need to get off their arse and change the system… I have been unemployed (well unemployable due to injury) for 3 months now – I FINALLY got approved for centrelink only a week ago. After having NO income for 3 months I am ever so grateful that I can finally get a handout.. HOWEVER for all the endless hours I spent attending appointments and assessments I swear that more than 50% of people should NOT be on benefits.

I know of soooo many people who screw the system, and it doesn’t matter how many times they are dobbed in or reported to the fraud line they still receive their money.

Personally I think that after 3 months on unemployment benefits you should be cut off, forced into work/study/armed forces… I also agree that once children reach school age – mothers should have to go back to work. (which I believe they enforced a while ago??) Earn their own bloody money, plenty of jobs offer flexible hours between 9-3pm…

It is annoying that some fairly well off people are getting this money, and some druggies.

But that is the way government works. They wanted this money to go out into the economy quickly. So they picked a date, and picked an existing set of people: Families getting FTB, pensioners etc.

It isn’t a perfect system, but it was able to be administered quickly. There is no way the govt could assess every person for whether they deserve the money. they’d have to employ another thousand public servants to try to do it, and noone would see any money for years.

Here’s hoping it works to stimulate the economy anyway – which will benefit us all – otherwise a whole lot more of us will become evil ‘dolebludgers’.

Pommy bastard1:00 pm 27 Dec 08

2604 said :

Don’t you think that these social benefits make it more likely that they will have a roof over their heads and food to eat?

Don’t you think that it was the fact that they were available,free of charge and free of work, that fostered this dependence and wrong doing in the first place?

2604, if all ADF left because the ‘pay out’ is inadequate, there’d be no ADF. They are screaming out for more people. ADF get ‘benefits’ because they do the job that most people wouldn’t do or couldn’t be arsed but will have a go at because they can.

I never said it was about the money btw. He gets ‘compensation’ because he works for it. Not because he sits on his arse all day playing X-box or Wii.

As for my sister, why yes, I would deny her my taxes.

She uses her son’s PBS medication as a seller for other druggies. She pays $3.50 (or there abouts) for it and sells it for a hell of a lot more.

She goes ‘shopping’ at my mother’s house for her groceries. My mother is dying of pancreatic cancer btw and can no longer walk. She spent her $$$$ on a special chair. We have to make sure she has food every day due to that ignorant cow.

My sister lives in a 3br Govvie house on the cheap but it only contains her and my nephew – you do the math on that one.

My sister also gets given money from her father, my step-father, every day and he goes as far as to give my nephew $50 per day.

So yes, give the money to her if it makes you feel ‘better’, but sure as hell don’t take it from my taxes.

Nyssa, you can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that all of the benefits I mentioned are available to people serving in the Army, Navy and Air Force. I’m also pretty sure that the free medical and dental doesn’t cease once people have done their final active deployment – again, happy to be corrected if this is wrong. I take your point about him being deployed, but don’t you get $$$ compensation for that, as well? If the “pay off” is as inadequate as you imply, why doesn’t he find another job?

Sure, these are benefits that your husband receives as part of his job, but there are plenty of people who I’m sure work just as hard as your husband and have to pay for all of these things themselves, rather than having them paid for by the taxpayer.

The saddest thing for me about the discussion above is that you have a drug-addicted, unemployed sister, with children, and you begrudge her a portion of your taxes. Don’t you think that these social benefits make it more likely that they will have a roof over their heads and food to eat? Would you rather your niece/nephew were on the streets and starving, if it meant you would save a few dollars in tax per week? They didn’t ask to be in their current situation, and the fact is that these payments make it much more likely that they will receive the basic necessities of life.

dexi, true.

However, seeing idiots get money hand over fist for doing nothing really pisses me off.

The Govt should cut the financial umbilical cord for those who aren’t willing to seek employment.

PB, yes, yes. Thatcherism at its best.

I’d like you to meet my sister who thinks the world owes her something. Perhaps you can change her mind that at 30yo she should have had at least one job since leaving school. That using the Centrelink loopholes for more money is wrong and that it really isn’t her money but those who work to feed not only their families but hers.

“We’re talking the dole bludgers, the drug addicted single parents etc.

When is the Govt going to stop being a dependent parent and stop paying these fools? Why would they ever want to help themselves when they can get ‘FREE’ money from the Govt every fortnight?”

Because they are fools and dependant. They get 400 odd dollars a fortnight to live in miserable poverty. Count your self lucky you can support your self and leave the retards alone. If your worried about free money there is plenty of it in high end business. Maybe you could concern your self with the large scale environmental rip off by corporate Australia or the unbalanced use of world resources that support our consumer rich western life style. It is easier to bash the stupid than tackle real waste.

Pommy bastard8:46 am 27 Dec 08

nyssa76 said :

My point being this: There are people out there who sit on their arses and do NOTHING for themselves or society and they get a handout. We’re talking the dole bludgers, the drug addicted single parents etc.

There are those who have refined this to a fine art too.

In the words of M Thatcher..

“I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.”

He’s also not in the Air Force so you link doesn’t really follow the argument.

Anyone who works is entitled (by law) to get Superannuation. But why bother? You’ll only get a Govt pension, if you aren’t working, for the rest of your life.

My point being this: There are people out there who sit on their arses and do NOTHING for themselves or society and they get a handout. We’re talking the dole bludgers, the drug addicted single parents etc.

When is the Govt going to stop being a dependent parent and stop paying these fools? Why would they ever want to help themselves when they can get ‘FREE’ money from the Govt every fortnight?

2604, isn’t it nice to get work entitlements. Funny how you actually have to work to get them. My husband also spends 18 months out of 24 months away from his family. What a pay off huh?

Now if we weren’t both working, we’d get cheap housing, medical, rego (and the use of the roads), free university (HECS isn’t paid back until you earn a certain amount and I could do my PhD stress free) and free health care.

Not much of a positive to want to work is is?

Oh and only defence members get free medical and dental – to keep them healthy for any form of combat or duty, not their familiies.

But I do have one question, where are you getting your figures from?

nyssa76 said :

Really 2604?

I’ve paid about $14K in tax (one of my jobs) so far this financial year. Another ‘lay about’ relative scored $7K from ol’ Kevin.

Which, if we look at it as a two person system, means that half my taxes went to her. Yet I still pay full medical, medicines, rego etc. Who’s better off? Not the hard working taxpayer.

But Nyssa, it’s not a two-person system. People receiving social benefits of this kind are greatly outnumbered by taxpayers, so the percentage of your tax going to pay these benefits is much less than 50%.

Besides which, the tax payer also gets benefits as a result of his or her own tax payments. For example, he or she drives on federally-funded roads, is protected by the defence forces and federal police, can participate in (federally-funded) higher education and can or will receive health care (hospital, nursing home and PBS) which is partially federally funded.

In any case, you mentioned that your husband is in the ADF. If so, isn’t he eligible for rental assistance, assistance with buying a house, free medical and dental, defined benefit super (to which the Commonwealth contributes a minimum of 18 per cent), and many other untaxed fringe benefits, all at taxpayer expense? I don’t want to detract from your husband’s work, but I’d still say you guys are getting some of your taxes back by way of all these benefits.

The people creaming off all these “working families” subsidies and other handouts are no doubt the ones also complaining about long waits at hospitals, lack of services, having to pay extra to their kid’s school etc etc. I wonder when the penny will drop? Taht money pouring into their pockets and coming out again to buy the latest toy at Hardly’s is not being spent on enabling our hospitals to cope with the growing population. That’s what it should be spent on, but it’s not.

Hmmm, Ms Thumper says exactly the same thing…..

In fact, she says she’s sick and tired of paying taxes and finding out that it goes to working families or whatever….

when do we see the end of the ansett tax? surely they have enough cash now?

I love how working singles with no kids always miss out on any sort of extra benefit.

Also annoying how if we travel anywhere we have to pay a “surcharge”.

Really 2604?

I’ve paid about $14K in tax (one of my jobs) so far this financial year. Another ‘lay about’ relative scored $7K from ol’ Kevin.

Which, if we look at it as a two person system, means that half my taxes went to her. Yet I still pay full medical, medicines, rego etc. Who’s better off? Not the hard working taxpayer.

Pommy bastard said :

2604 said :

What, give taxpayer’s money back to taxpayers? You mean those that actually work for a living and create the country’s wealth? What an absurd notion. Far better to give it to junkies and dole claimants so they can waste it…..

Fortunately, PB, very little of our hard-earned taxpayer’s money actually goes to “junkies and dole claimants”.

In answer to your “Why a particular date?” question, because thats the date that the announcement was made on, so it will use Centrelink\FAO\Disability Support census data as at that date. 😛

From the eligibility criteria:

The Economic Security Strategy Payment is a lump sum payment from the Australian Government to eligible seniors, pensioners, people with disability, veterans, carers and families.

Who is eligible for the payment?

You may receive the one-off payment if, on 14 October 2008, you were eligible to receive one of the payments listed below:

Age Pension
Disability Support Pension
Carer Payment
Wife and Widow B Pension
Partner, Widow and Bereavement Allowance
Veterans’ Affairs Service Pensioners
Veterans Income Support Supplement.

You may also receive the one-off payment if, on 14 October 2008, you:

held a Commonwealth Seniors Health Card
held a Veterans’ Gold Card and were also eligible for Seniors Concession Allowance
were of age pension age and eligible to receive Parenting Payment, Special Benefit, Austudy or ABSTUDY Living Allowance.
If you received Carer Allowance for 14 October 2008, you will receive the one-off payment for each eligible person in your care.
How much is the payment?
If you are eligible, you will receive $1,400 if you are single, or $1,050 for each eligible member of a couple. Carer Allowance customers will receive $1,000 for each eligible person in their care.

When will it be paid?
The one-off payments will be paid in the fortnight beginning 8 December 2008, with most payments received by 19 December 2008.

Jonathon Reynolds11:50 am 26 Dec 08

A flyer I picked up in Myer on Wednesday: http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9771/myerli8.jpg
Those who got the “Pennies from Kevin” could make it worth an additional 10%

People on youth allowance weren’t entitled to the $1k payout…

I believe it was only given to people who have children and the oldies, disabled etc.

Pommy bastard9:29 am 26 Dec 08

2604 said :

Generally, though, the $10.4 billion would have been far better spent on income tax relief – preferably combined with an increased tax on consumption.

What, give taxpayer’s money back to taxpayers? You mean those that actually work for a living and create the country’s wealth? What an absurd notion. Far better to give it to junkies and dole claimants so they can waste it…..

Thats just Rudd&co (aka Robin Hood and his merry men in tights) pandering to their vote-bank.

They probably give it to youth allowance-users because they know they’ll blow it all on boxes of cheap noodles, video games and a hellva lot of booze. None of this squirreling it away for a rainy day business that the oldies would do with it!

While I am not sure why youth allowance recipients are getting this cash, I don’t begrudge them the handout. The majority of them are students and I can still remember being a student and having $4 in hand after paying my rent, transport and groceries for the week.

Generally, though, the $10.4 billion would have been far better spent on income tax relief – preferably combined with an increased tax on consumption.

Could anyone link the eligibility requirements? I had a look but couldn’t find anything about youth allowance payouts. A thousand dollars would really come in handy. Thanks!

agree, Nyssa. This whole handout thing is out of control, and it’s not going to end well. I resent big bundles of money going to people who don’t actually need it, while people like the pensioners are really struggling. I resent my tax money being given to people who have mortgages that I will never be in a position to afford, while people who contributed to this country can’t eat meat every week.

It’s all wrong, but it will be a brave government that cuts off the cash to the greedy people with their grasping hands.

I know someone who apparently spent the vast majority of the money on drugs. I guess he was technically doing exactly what Kevin Rudd asked of him.

Incidentally, this is yet another reason why I am a libertarian…not to harp about it or anything…

Steady Eddie and to think someone had nothing else to do on Christmas Day than to whinge about ‘whingers’.

Oh and my Christmas Day was two days ago with the rellies due to a family member going interstate to see their in-laws.

Not everyone celebrates Christmas Day on December 25th and some celebrate it at least three times.

YES!! on that day, i didnt earn youth allowance, because oh, the week before was school holidays, and i had worked too much.

So yes..i can agree completely with this 🙁

Steady Eddie4:24 pm 25 Dec 08

Boy, to think someone had nothing else to do on Xmas Day but to post these whinges.

It’s worse when the money goes to known drug addicts because they ‘have a child’ who hasn’t been taken off them by Care and Protection yet.

AND if that child has a special need, they get another $1000 per child.

For point of reference, see my sister.

On the other hand, I have an 80yo grandfather who has fought in two wars for this country, paid taxes and has never broken the law. Both him and his wife (my step-grandmother) received $1400.

They are the type of people who do deserve some extra cash, particularly at Christmas.

On a personal note, I have 3 kids. I work 2 jobs and my husband is in the Defence Force. We didn’t get the money nor did we need it or want it.

The system is flawed when lazy bludgers, who’ve never had a job in their lives, get a handout.

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