Self-defence claim in Kingston killing

Ari 15 December 2006 48

Tying in with the speculation found among the comments in this post, the Canberra Times reports that Ian Edward Hirst, 54, will claim self-defence over the killing of David Peter Bagnall, 53, at Fraser Court.

Hirst apparently met the “special or exceptional circumstances” requirement needed to gain bail after a murder charge.

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48 Responses to Self-defence claim in Kingston killing
Big Al Big Al 9:49 pm 17 Dec 06

There’s a diference between mad and fucked in the head.

j j 8:16 pm 17 Dec 06

And you guys call crazy chester mad

Big Al Big Al 6:27 pm 17 Dec 06

No idea – but if you post your address it might be possible to increase those figures by at least one.

j j 4:58 pm 17 Dec 06

How many times have the police killed some one and used Self-defence claim
Against a unarmed man.

j j 4:55 pm 17 Dec 06

We all know the ACT police only do work when is about raising money.”

I think everyone knows this statement is crap.

Every one know that it was planed in advanced.
so that means they were hopping to bust cars and make money.

j j 4:41 pm 17 Dec 06

leave me out of it .
Big Al has points that i made and i was insulted
for saying it.
And i dont have a problem with you VG you try to do your job but you cant win every time .
only when you are in Uniform and a badge.

Big Al Big Al 3:42 pm 17 Dec 06

Yeah that’s actually a bit of a worry really.

smack smack 3:39 pm 17 Dec 06

“unlike yourself who was actually involved in the cock-up”

Just a question, how do you know it was a cock up? Maybe all was going well with the negotations and he accidently shot himself. From what I understand you do need some training when around guns. Just a thought. I wonder if the angle was ever looked at.

“We all know the ACT police only do work when is about raising money.”

I think everyone knows this statement is crap. Not every cop is perfect, but I would think the majority try hard. In my opinion they are just as good as every other state I have lived in.

vg vg 3:36 pm 17 Dec 06

I deal with lame insults on a daily basis. Don’t flatter yourself

But then again Jim is now in your corner

Big Al Big Al 3:06 pm 17 Dec 06

Sorry to disappoint vg, but my position on violence as a way to try and prove your point is well stated here – All I am offering is the opportunity to demonstrate that I have no problem with calling you a fucked up little monkey to your face – If you cant deal with that in a non-violent way then don’t bother looking me up. On the other hand, if you want to sit down over a couple of beers and robustly discuss anything we disagree about then by all means seek me out.

And mate, it’s a bit rich for you to invoke the “scaredy cat” tag when you have so often sought to hide behind the caveat of “sporting contest” as a way of avoiding the otherwise logical consequences of your inability to deal with what is, by any standard, a fairly lame insult.

j j 2:29 pm 17 Dec 06

Big Al
I like what you are saying in some part BUT I WAS KICKED OFF THIS SITE.
We all know the ACT police only do work when is about raising money.
But i have seen some police that i know take there job real .
We do need a enquire it to policing in act and the
amount of complaints they get doesent help AS it is just used to start up a new program and waste tax payer money.
There was to be a task force to deal with problem areas but never seen it.
I dont hate Police but if there done there job and
stopped half for the crime canberra would be a nice place too live.

vg vg 2:16 pm 17 Dec 06

I don’t consider anything I do or don’t do at work a ‘trophy’ but suffice to say I’ve got a little more on my resume than a recovered Commodore, but I won’t bore you or others with the detail. On an education scale, well lets say that I am beyond under-graduate study.

Calling Joe Average a ‘fucked up little monkey’ to his face might invite a certain well-deserved response back. A response I expect most RAs would expect as well.

The fact that you’d like to caveat any possible meeting with a scaredy cat clause says a lot to me and others. To be honest I fail to see what any sort of meeting would achieve if your actions follow from what you say here. It would be nothing but a stream of vulgar, non-sensical invective. Something that comes stock standard from a City drunk on a Saturday night.

That and any form of disagreement by me would no doubt see you running to my employer with a complaint of some description.

I’m sorry that this has become so boring for others, but I’m guessing Al is feeling a little miffed that, once again, he has been made to look a little petty and silly.

Big Al Big Al 2:00 pm 17 Dec 06

vg if all you’ve got as a trophy is a recovered commodore then you’re a sad little monkey indeed …

In terms of catching up – I’m certainly not going to be bothered arranging anything specific but I do enjoy a Sunday afternoon ale at front bar of the Mawson Club from around 1600 and when the inclination arises I have been known to drop by the Irish Club in Weston Creek on a Tuesday evening around an hour or so before closing. Obviously absolutely nothing I’ve posted here in any way constitues and invitation of, or consent to, violence so come prepared for a verbal bollocking sucker.

vg vg 1:52 pm 17 Dec 06

Lets remember how it started.

I won’t lie down when someone gets personal

nyssa76 nyssa76 1:50 pm 17 Dec 06

Puh-lease, get a room or stop the pissing contest.

vg vg 1:34 pm 17 Dec 06

“My comment on Thumpers thread was a piffling barb, nothing more and you don’t do yourself justice by raising it”

Made to look even more stupid by the fact that you were, once again, incorrect when it comes to what I do for a living

vg vg 1:33 pm 17 Dec 06

“I’m more than happy to get together and call you a fucked up little monkey to your face “

Name the time and place. I have a feeling you will be looking up quite a way to call me that to my face

Big Al Big Al 1:19 pm 17 Dec 06

vg as I’ve said before, your consistent suggestions that I don’t have the intestinal fortitude to repeat my observations about your character in person are in fact veiled threats of violence – I’m more than happy to get together and call you a fucked up little monkey to your face and let the legal system deal with the consequences or otherwise of your inability to deal with reality – none of this fair sporting contest bullshit you like to trot out, no little guy playing big at the Police and Citizens Club sorry mate, you can keep that macho bullshit posturing all to yourself – It’s a simple fact that you don’t have the balls be told what you are and not resort to violence … deal with it dickhead and move on.

Now I assume that when you say “…the way you crumbled last time when asked to put up or shut up really did prove the queslity [sic] of man/woman/child you are.” You must be talking about the thread that resulted from those negotiations you fucked up with the punk who shot himself. Now I don’t know about you, but I would have thought that pointing out that if the only tool police have is a hammer, then you don’t have to be a rocket surgeon to realize they’ll end up treating every problem as if it were a nail was a fairly reasoned observation from an outsider – unlike yourself who was actually involved in the cock-up. I didn’t bother following up your twaddle about police procedures for such situations because I read elsewhere that one of the lead people involved in preparing the guidelines you were supposed to be working to had publicly pointed out that many of the options canvassed in the RA thread – including allowing family members to assist with resolving the stand off – were acceptable approaches. I figured you’d become a soft target on that one and that you didn’t need me heaping more shit on you.

You seem to suggest that being a cop somehow makes you better informed on matters of the law – whereas all I point out is that when your stock in trade is revenue raising on the ACTs roads, dealing with petty criminals and domestic matters then you’re really no better placed than I or anyone else to have an opinion. As a result the fact that we disagree cannot be resolved on the assumption that you are right and I am wrong – You like to pretend that you’re the crack intellectual – and hey you may well seem smart when your at work, but simply telling someone they have no idea what their talking about does not make for interesting dialog. My comment on Thumpers thread was a piffling barb, nothing more and you don’t do yourself justice by raising it

vg vg 12:52 pm 17 Dec 06

It would be very hard to establish a prima facie case either way at a bail application. Thats what a commital hearing is for.

Funnily enough the magistrates in this town seem to have the insight to be able to detect this at a bail application.

Prima facie or otherwise is somewhere well down the track, not for a magistrate to discuss at a bail hearing. They decide whether the person is suitable for bail, nothing else. Another case of a Canberra magistrate overstepping their authority

terubo terubo 12:32 pm 17 Dec 06

Good to see some of you enjoying the Christmas spirit(s).

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