4 January 2011

Sensing weakness, ACTION drivers move in for the kill

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times has the dispiriting news that even though the ACT Government has capitulated in its efforts to get some labour flexibility into the bus driving workforce a new claim has arisen:

The Government says it is determined to achieve a seven-day roster to go with a seven-day bus service but the Transport Workers Union, representing the 600 drivers, wants members undertaking a weekend shift to be paid a 15 per cent loading for their entire five-day working week.

Weekend shifts for ACTION drivers are currently on a voluntary basis leaving some services short if the bus operator’s management fails to interest enough drivers to fill the Saturday and Sunday rosters.

ACTION bus drivers

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One word:- monorail!!

georgesgenitals3:56 pm 06 Jan 11

‘But they put up with so much’. Try telling that to a 17yo who works the counter at a McDonalds that’s open late on weekends, or a teacher who deals with special needs kids.

… or nurses, or cops, or checkout chicks, or call-centre staff, or aged carers, or butchers, or taxi drivers, or…

“it’s good to know you’re in favour of green staff consistently being given the prickly end of the pineapple while the old lags claim shift work loadings without doing shift work.”

Oh yeah, I’m completely in favour of the evil bus drivers who want to rape our women and murder our children and who put poison in the wells and worship satan.

Bussie said – Regaring weekend work for bus drivers, it is as many have noted entirely voluntary. The govt wants us to agree to compulsory weekend work with a) nothing extra in it for us and b) without telling us how it will be implemented.

(b) seems perfectly valid to me, I’d want to know how any change was going to take place as well.

(a) though, raises again the previously stated idea that the current hourly rate is calculated on the assumption that each workers week will (on average) include a certain number of evening and weekend hours. Seems to me that a mistake was made in the creation of this “composite rate”, because gave everyone the penalty rate without tying it directly to those penalty hours being performed. I get the feeling that the drivers union see this previously undertaken wage arrangement to be distant history, and that any change in the current status quo will require more money.

A comment of my own, I find it amazing that ACTION drivers are public servants at all, and not contractors like most other service industry tasks undertaken within departments, such as guards, cleaners, food workers, etc.

JJ, I was referring to Bussie’s persecution complex.

But hey, it’s good to know you’re in favour of green staff consistently being given the prickly end of the pineapple while the old lags claim shift work loadings without doing shift work.

In principle, it’s quite similar to the old practice of sending all new teachers out to country schools, and only allowing them to work in the cushy city schools once they’d spent sufficient time in less desirable locations. I believe it was about 10 years ago that this was ruled discriminatory in WA, and new teachers are now “encouraged” (i.e. paid extra) to take up these postings.

Sounds like there are a lot of issues with the application of Action’s current conditions of employment. Paying a shift allowance to people who aren’t required to work shifts is utterly ludicrous, for a start. Time for an overhaul of the entire system, I’d say.

“The reason everyone’s agin’ you lot is because you’re carrying on like a load of wankers and trying to hold the public to ransom in the process.”

Everyone?

Hell, even 30% of people voted against the loaded pushpoll with a predetermined outcome. Maybe you should stop confusing your own views with ‘what everyone thinks’.

Also while I’m here, Bussie, having done shift work myself I’ve never heard of anything as pernicious as your “seniority” system.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, but obviously you’re all beyond that.

No matter how long you’ve been in everyone should be willing to do the same work.

The reason everyone’s agin’ you lot is because you’re carrying on like a load of wankers and trying to hold the public to ransom in the process.

You can frame the questions any way you want to on your own website Jim.

“70% of Canberrans have extreme right winged views!”

Ah yeah, stats gleaned from a push poll are always so reliable aren’t they Johnboy?

Francois Dillinger1:38 pm 06 Jan 11

Agree somewhat with Neanderthalsis. Cant conflate the entirely two separate issues.

I’m no expert on the market rate for a bus driver and I dont claim to be. That said though, there is really no reason why a rate acceptable to each party cant be determined. I sure as hell wouldnt want to drive a bus and although $60kpa sounds generous, I know half of canberra is on more in far easier office jobs in the APS.

Cut out the digs on the individual bus drivers – the APS Union is a far bigger leach on the public purse and is actually far more unionised than many other sectors. Can’t blame bus drivers for wanting a cut of the action (3% real wage growth with no productivity gains) that most of us here get (lets face it – most Rioters would be in the APS).

If you get paid an allowance to work shifts then you should be rostered to do so. If you don’t like it you can do one of 2 things (a) work days and don’t get the allowance, or (b) get another job.

I’d hardly call what ACTION does ‘shift work’. Shift work is 24/7. Start complaining when you’re driving a bus on a rostered shift at 0330.

‘But they put up with so much’. Try telling that to a 17yo who works the counter at a McDonalds that’s open late on weekends, or a teacher who deals with special needs kids.

@43

“Being able to pick better shifts with longer service is pretty much the only career progression the vast majority of drivers have to look forward to”

This is precisely why there’s a driver shortage. New people start, can only get the crap shifts, leave for a better job. And really, it’s hardly a career; it’s a job. Maybe thinking it’s a career is why the union is so distanced from reality on this pay issue.

@35
No sour grapes. You got off the couch to get a job. Good work.

neanderthalsis12:03 pm 06 Jan 11

Just out of interest, how does this compare with other capitals? Iirc, Brisbane City Council drivers were on around the $22 an hour plus weekend/early & late penalty rates a year or two ago, Sydney drivers were striking over a 6% increase early last year. Maybe Action drivers can go work for Deanes and find out how employment in the real world works.

Inflated public service salaries and the continual dumbing down of classifications are another matter entirely.

Regaring weekend work for bus drivers, it is as many have noted entirely voluntary. The govt wants us to agree to compulsory weekend work with a) nothing extra in it for us and b) without telling us how it will be implemented. So if Stanhope could tell us exactly what system he’s suggesting for compulsory weekend work and maybe we’d get beyond the posturing stage and actually negotiate.

@38, Ian said:

“One of the problems has been that a % of drivers have decided they only want to work 9-5 5 days a week – so effectively are being paid penalty rates without having to work the penalty hours”

There are no shifts that start at or after 9am with a finish at or before 5pm. You don’t know what you are talking about!!!!

JustThinking, sorry I’d rather not describe my day as I don’t want to be identified. The Canberra Times and Riot ACT can tell all the lies about us that they want but if we say what we think we can get nailed under the Public Service ACT.

Newbie wrote at #30:
” It’s the pig headed men who have been there for donkeys years who won’t wake up to what the rest of the working world is doing. These are the same men who have maintained the seniority system to ensure working mothers can’t get a shift that allows them to manage their families. It’s time these dinosaurs were dragged into the 1980?s and beyond. Hats off to the Government for at least giving it a go.”

There is already a system in place for drivers to apply for a special shift allocation before the shifts are picked on seniority.

Anyone who becomes a bus driver thinking they’ll be working 9-5 straight away is a fool and I don’t see why they should be accomodated at the expense of those drivers who have waited 12-15 years to get a fulltime day shift. Being able to pick better shifts with longer service is pretty much the only career progression the vast majority of drivers have to look forward to.

Actually the varied shifts suit lots of drivers. There are several who work 1730ish-midnight looking after the kids during the day while their partners work 9-5. There’s also a couple who are both drivers with one doing fulltime nightshift and the other parttime mornings.

#39 what does your typical ASO4 do? Seeing as that is basically the entry level in the public service I suspect nothing of great importance.

JustThinking9:58 pm 05 Jan 11

Bussie,
What would a normal day be for you?
Start/breaks/finish etc.

I’m not for or against just curious about the hours etc.
AND work conditons..
I’ve caught a few buses and although most trips were OK one or two had some issues with ‘excited’ passengers.

georgesgenitals8:53 pm 05 Jan 11

Hey Bussie – I think we have a violin around here somewhere…

you get paid as an 4 for driving a bus ? you clowns should be grateful.

Rodneyrooster is the rate they are being paid is already a composite rate then they ARE ALREADY getting paid for said weekend work, but not actually being forced to work it. Seems a bit rich to ask for the same thing a second time round.

This is my understanding. At the time the composite rate was negotiated all the weekend, public holiday and shift penalties were rolled into the rate. While weekend work was stated as voluntary there was a clear expectation/understanding that drivers would continue to do reasonable amounts of weekend work to support the services provided.

One of the problems has been that a % of drivers have decided they only want to work 9-5 5 days a week – so effectively are being paid penalty rates without having to work the penalty hours.

All you clowns whinging that we get paid too much should bear in mind that in public service terms we are ASO4s. Just looked at the ACT govt job ads and hear we are: Administrative Services Officer Class 4 – $54,956-$59,668 (see: http://www.jobs.act.gov.au/all_vacant_jobs). So the top end of an ACT ASO4 is about $600/yr more than the minimum for a full time ACTION driver ($29.90/hr * 38hrs/wk * 52wks/yr = $59082/yr). I don’t reckon too many ASO4s have to start work at 5am or finish after midnight for their money.

Re: the public holidays we get paid if we work them but if we don’t work the only ones we get paid for are Xmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year’s Day, Good Friday and Family’n’Community Day.

“These are the same men who have maintained the seniority system to ensure working mothers can’t get a shift that allows them to manage their families.”

May I ask where you get such information, I am aware of at least one driver who has stayed part time to fit in with their kids being at school.

I also don’t see why Canberra needs a 7 day timetable. Sure minor changes could be made to the weekend Network to cover Canberra tad more, but the patronage isn’t there to warrant every route running 7 days a week.

@13, @17, @23, @24, @25, @26 – It is funny to see that many armchair warriors complain about the job being “too highly paid” for what they call “relatively easy work”. Yet funnily enough, ACTION are still suffer a chronic shortage of drivers despite its recruitment campaigns.

Do I detect some sour grapes?

Another reason why I got off the couch and signed up as a driver.

@32: Good to see someone else here has actually seen an industrial agreement negotiated before.

Thoroughly Smashed2:42 pm 05 Jan 11

Also, the 2011 ridiculous johnboy poll award has an early and strong leader.

Thoroughly Smashed2:41 pm 05 Jan 11

#3 “Unions are always making unreasonable demands”

It’s called bargaining. I’m sure you’ve done it when buying a car, it’s a fairly straightforward concept. I start with a position you don’t like (and will loudly accuse of being “extreme” or “thuggish” or “unreasonable”) and you start with a position I don’t like (while saying similar things). We will then both try to negotiate a position that neither of us likes more or less equally, and once that’s over we’ll both go back to our respective camps to declare victory before planning for the next round gets under way.

If that doesn’t work, well mass layoffs or strikes are always good ways to take a gamble on your own importance.

“These are the same men who have maintained the seniority system to ensure working mothers can’t get a shift that allows them to manage their families.”

Check out the Fair Work Act then, they have to allow it unless certain situations dictate otherwise. A bit of time in court usually sorts these ‘hard men’ out

It’s the pig headed men who have been there for donkeys years who won’t wake up to what the rest of the working world is doing. These are the same men who have maintained the seniority system to ensure working mothers can’t get a shift that allows them to manage their families. It’s time these dinosaurs were dragged into the 1980’s and beyond. Hats off to the Government for at least giving it a go.

Otto can drive a bus ffs

Rodneyrooster is the rate they are being paid is already a composite rate then they ARE ALREADY getting paid for said weekend work, but not actually being forced to work it. Seems a bit rich to ask for the same thing a second time round.

Some people have mentioned other workers get weekend penalty rates etc. Well this is not quite true. Some organizations, including a couple of Federal government departments I know enter into agreements whereby the compensation for weekend or night work is included in a fixed loading that is applied to all hours worked or like the drivers factored into their base rate.

I don’t mind them getting paid the extra 15% on weekends, and even if they added the same for early mornings and late nights (say before 6am and after 9pm or something like that). I worked in a $16/hr job with 15% on Saturdays, before 7am and after 8pm (IIRC), and double-time on Sundays.

But for the entire week? That’s just greedy. Sure, they have a job which sucks in a lot of ways, but there’s a lot of other jobs out there that pay even worse, and have far bigger drawbacks!

Piratemonkey6:12 pm 04 Jan 11

They get paid what?!?! and for not having to work weekends… No wonder I pay 4 bucks for a bus on the weekend to take 90 minutes for a 10 or 15 minute trip in a car.

I think the solution is a new ACTION bus driver temporary visa. Said visa holders can fill weekend, night and short shifts at ACTION and be paid minimum wage plus meals and accommodation. The visas should be set to expire when the next round of wage negotiations take place. Upon expiration they will have the option of permanent residency if they take up a job with action on slightly better rates.

I am as pro worker as they come, but that is far too much money for a such a simple job when you consider what cops and nurses get paid. Especially at the expense of a real public transport system in canberra.

$62,000pa is a shed load of money when you compare what someone like, say a 2 or 3 year police officer, has to put up with.

What do bus drivers have to ‘put up with’ that’s different to any other member of the public? They drive buses, not find a cure for cancer. When the going gets tough who do they call? Maybe someone getting paid less than them, as described above

@ 22- $62,000 p.a. with no HECS debt or low apprenticeship wages is a lot of money.

If drivers were to start recieving penalty rates, then it would be appropriate to lower the standard rate.

I have colleagues with PhD’s on less (>7 years low income + HECS debt).

colourful sydney racing identity3:57 pm 04 Jan 11

$62,000 p.a. with no penalty rates for night work, weekend work, public holiday work etc is not a lot of money to have to put up with what ACTION drivers have to put up with IMHO

@19 Yup, nothing to see here, move along

@19 – in this case, yes.

If they considered their existing position in comparison to other more qualified professions, I’m sure they’d be very lucky & appreciative to maintain the status quo.

colourful sydney racing identity2:34 pm 04 Jan 11

@17 – so people should not try and better their employment terms and conditions? They should accept it or get another job?

On one hand i agree and the other i disagree. Personally I don’t get paid penalty rates like most in the private sector. I get paid more than $30 an hour but i also studied and recieved an engineering degree.

While I have sympathy for the drivers, $30 seems a damn good pay assuming they work a 40 hour week. Its slightly above average salary in Australia. My assumption here is that if someone worked a Saturday or Sunday they would have another day off in its place. If not then it is unfair IMO to expect people to work 6 or 7 day weeks.

The full time 7 day roster sounds good to me. They would probably only need to work 1 sat or sunday a month maybe. But still they could have a day off in lieu, which a lot of peoiple I know find useful for things like doctors appointments, banking etc etc

That said I also feel the bus service isn’t great so paying more wouldn’t improve it, just cost more to run.

You are bus drivers, not Medical professionals, tradies, teachers etc. You have done a course in how to drive a large vehicle and i’m sure it didn’t take 3-6 years of your life on minimal wage to complete. (you probably did it over 3 months).

If you think you’re getting shafted, go drive a overnight truck or move into the mining industry (you may get paid more there)

Light rail would fix the problem, move more people with less drivers.

georgesgenitals1:29 pm 04 Jan 11

Oh, and Canberra is the most whiny, whingey greeny lefty place in the universe.

georgesgenitals1:28 pm 04 Jan 11

“Let’s cut the political spin. The facts are:
(A) Action Driver’s $30 per hour sounds good, but it needs to be understood that this is a composite rate, which means that there are NO additional penalty rates working outside standard 9-5 type hours – i.e. no additional penalties for weekend work, no penalties for working to midnight etc and NO pay at all for most public holidays!
(B) In addition, Drivers who work on weekends do so on a voluntary basis and NOT get paid any Superannuation!
(C) When Action previously operated a full 7 day a week service, it paid it’s Drivers an additional allowance for what they called “6 and 7 day rosters”. When they eliminated, these rosters, they ceased paying the allowance. This allowance was never factored into in the “composite rate”, because weekend work was to be voluntary. What the real argument is about is Action wanting to reintroduce compulsory weekend rosters, but without reintroducing the allowance.
(D)40% of Drivers are part-timer and are only guaranteed 20 hours a week work. Many of them need to “volunteer” for weekend work. Compulsory weekend rosters would see weekend work built into the shift structure, meaning that part-timers would not be able to top up their hours.

Johnboy’s extreme right winged views and poll demonstrates an extreme lack of understanding of the issues.”

Translation: Work 40 hours per week and make more than the national average full time working income. For driving a bus.

These strike me as strange

Weekend work is voluntary

“NO pay at all for most public holidays!”

So people volunteer to work on weekends for no extra benefits and don’t get paid ‘at all’ on public holidays.

Obviously being incredibly stupid is part of their collective agreement, when you work public holidays for free.

Here’s what you’ll end up with if its a true composite. Lets say 22% is added to your base salary. That 22% encompasses shift work and weekends. If you refuse to abide by the flexible conditions under the 22% you no longer get the 22%. Then everyone’s happy

@Thumper – and the conflict there is…?

What was the nature of the previous agreement? Did it include a flat (but ostensibly higher) single rate for both weekday and weekend work, spreading both the work and the penalties across the whole week? If so, why are they now asking for higher rates?

If not, they should be paid penalty rates for weekend work.

Yes, 70% of Canberrans have extreme right winged views!

Or maybe asking for a weekend rate for a whole week, if any weekend work is done, is simply so outrageous an ambit claim that an otherwise sympathetic public are not well pleased?

rodneyrooster12:04 pm 04 Jan 11

Let’s cut the political spin. The facts are:
(A) Action Driver’s $30 per hour sounds good, but it needs to be understood that this is a composite rate, which means that there are NO additional penalty rates working outside standard 9-5 type hours – i.e. no additional penalties for weekend work, no penalties for working to midnight etc and NO pay at all for most public holidays!
(B) In addition, Drivers who work on weekends do so on a voluntary basis and NOT get paid any Superannuation!
(C) When Action previously operated a full 7 day a week service, it paid it’s Drivers an additional allowance for what they called “6 and 7 day rosters”. When they eliminated, these rosters, they ceased paying the allowance. This allowance was never factored into in the “composite rate”, because weekend work was to be voluntary. What the real argument is about is Action wanting to reintroduce compulsory weekend rosters, but without reintroducing the allowance.
(D)40% of Drivers are part-timer and are only guaranteed 20 hours a week work. Many of them need to “volunteer” for weekend work. Compulsory weekend rosters would see weekend work built into the shift structure, meaning that part-timers would not be able to top up their hours.

Johnboy’s extreme right winged views and poll demonstrates an extreme lack of understanding of the issues.

What is that saying about having cake and eating it???

Didnt the government, the drivers and the unions all have a big debate on salary and conditions not 6 months ago that resulted in a strike? Surely this was the time to include the issue of additional money for weekend work.

I have a suggestion – contract all drivers as FULL TIME salary paid permanent employees, give them all 7 day rotating rosters and set a rate of salary that is fair and equitable in comparison to other ACT public service roles.

This 7 day roster is certainly not unusual practice in a lot of commercial industries, gives the employee drivers more confidence in their hours and regularity in salary, and the benefit of being able to work their lives around a regular set schedule.

The benefit of full time bus drivers for the system is that buses could run later / earlier. AND give a better reliability to the financial stance of Action, hopefully resulting in the ability to purchase more buses. (I know, pipe dreamer)

Have to say though, $30 per hour I think is quite a good hourly rate, and if I was a driver I wouldnt be complaining for fear they reduce my regular hourly rate to give the ‘double time’ provision of the weekend work that is done ‘every other’ weekend.

Another day, another pushpoll.

It is reasonable for employees to be paid more on weekends. Currently, ACTION drivers do NOT get paid a higher hourly rate (or any other pay loading) for working on weekends.

The lack of overtime on weekends is part of the reason why ACTION cannot fill the weekend shifts and have to rely on ‘volunteers’. (The other reason is that the weekend routes are unpopular, with impositions such as no time for toilet breaks.)

As many drivers choose not to work weekends for the above (reasonable) reasons, the Govt is now trying to force them into a position where they must work weekends for no extra pay. I suspect that drivers are unable to get a higher hourly rate due to a previous ‘pay deal’, and are now trying to obtain some other form of recompense if the new arrangements force them to work weekends.

Seems to me the ‘unreasonable demands’ are on both sides – Govt and union. JB, perhaps you could reword your poll options? Seems to me the Govt are being thuggish by making unreasonable demands without fair compensation.

far_northact9:19 am 04 Jan 11

They should be paid loading, for the shifts actually worked during a weekend…just like other employees.
Unions are always making unreasonable demands – thats why most people agree they are thuggish etc
I also think it’s important to not blame the workers, for the governments overall failure to deliver efficent bus services.

it’s fair enough to be paid a loading for working on the week ends , but it’s a bit rude to expect to be paid extra on normal working days.

How’s about ‘drivers should be allowed to exercise their diminished power in the face of unreasonable demands’?

‘flexibility”thuggish collectivism”reward’ – do I smell a neoliberal? Or maybe just a member of the ALP.

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