16 June 2009

Should Alistair get a briefing? (And if he has how did he forget?)

| johnboy
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[First filed: June 16, 2009 @ 10:42]

The Liberal Alistair Coe is stamping his tiny feet due to the Chiefly Stanhope failing to take him seriously.

In a clever move Alistair is trying to conflate an apparent strategy of ignoring and belittling him personally with ignoring and belittling local Government responsibilities.

But in the end it comes down to why there have been so many questions asked in the estimates process:

    “Despite writing to the Chief Minister on numerous occasions since becoming the Shadow Minister for TAMS, I am yet to receive a briefing on the portfolio. There is little wonder we have a number of questions.

If giving him a briefing can save millions in the questions process maybe it might be worth treating the Shadow Minister for Urban Services just a little bit seriously?

UPDATE: The Chief Minister’s office has just fired a media release directly at us suggesting it may be of interest. A suggestion with which we agree.

    Mr Stanhope said the statement was false and that Mr Coe had in fact been briefed on four separate occasions by senior TAMS officials.

    Seniors officials who devoted their time to these briefings, which were apparently so unmemorable, included the Acting Chief Executive of TAMS, Executive Director of Environment and Recreation Network, Acting Executive Director of Enterprises Services, Director of Parks, Conservation and Lands, General Manager of ACTION, Manager of Heritage and Manager of Contracts at ACT No Waste.

    “Mr Coe must withdraw his comments and publicly admit that he has been personally briefed by senior TAMS officials – including the Acting Chief Executive of TAMS – on a number of occasions since being elected to office,” Mr Stanhope said.

    “His failure to withdraw these demonstrably false allegations – will show that the Liberals believe there is one rule for politicians, in relation to honesty, and another for officials.

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Hells_Bells7410:09 am 22 Jun 09

Me too! Finally a subject that makes politics fun – spanking.

Oh, I’m all for a good spanking!

James-T-Kirk3:35 pm 17 Jun 09

No NO No No no…

I have tried for about 30 minutes not to type this….

But I *have* to

He needs a *spanking*

😉

(Sorry – couldn’t resist)

James-T-Kirk3:08 pm 17 Jun 09

He is a polly – A briefing would be wasted!

farq said :

yeah we know, would defeat the purpose of the ‘rotation’.

What I meant was viki deserves to be the first lib candidate across the line (most votes within her column).

I agree 100%. Not that she deserves to be elected, just beat the rest of the dross.

yeah we know, would defeat the purpose of the ‘rotation’.

What I meant was viki deserves to be the first lib candidate across the line (most votes within her column).

There is no “top spot” under Robson Rotation.

not surprising, the amount of spam he put in the mailboxes around the electorate was really frightening caf.

i don’t know if his team was just picking on my street or something, but i swear we got 2-3 a week from him in the lead up to the election. more than any other candidate, from any party.

i guess he had scores of young libs out volunteering to deliver them for him, while the other lib candidates had to help themselves (or pay australia post to do the leg work).

lets see what happens next election, now the electorate has had a chance to see him in action.

again IMHO, viki really deserves the top lib spot in Ginninderra, she is a much stronger performer.

Inappropriate: Interestingly enough he garnered significantly more votes than each of the other 4 Liberals in his electorate – which seems to indicate that a decent number of Liberal voters were voting specifically for him.

Inappropriate11:32 am 17 Jun 09

Gah, forgot to think before writing!

I meant that Coe got in from the popularity of Zed and the Liberals i.e., people voted for Liberals, not Coe specifically. Frankly I think Coe is a puppet.

granny please act your age, it is much more becoming.

I’ll help …. Yeah, why don’t you get an age transplant, you big baby!

*chuckle*

well only if we have your consent of course granny.

Not on my account. Pray continue ….

Granny said :

So don’t vote for him. Easy!

Nice contribution Granny! Shall we end the discussion now?

So don’t vote for him. Easy!

deezagood said :

Oh I don’t know … I think that the ACT’s untalented individuals are EXTREMELY well represented in the ACT government!

As easy as it is to accuse the MLA’s of not being the sharpest knifes in the draw, the reality is it takes some level of aptitude (and viciousness) to play all the party political games well enough to get preselected.

Even if one of the parties did nominate someone truly thick, would you discriminate against them on the basis of their intelligence, even though that factor is outside their control? Of course you would.

Just like I discriminate against someone too young, without any real life experience.

IMHO, the only life experience coe has had has comes from all the shenanigans that come with being a hack within the young libs.

If the preference system was ignored, who would be in power in the ACT government now?

While it would be a pretty silly thing to do, if we ignored preferences and just gave seats to the 5 highest voted candidates in Ginninderra and Brindabella (and 7 highest in Molonglo), the results would have been:

Brindabella: No change.
Ginninderra: Mark Parton (Independent) elected instead of Mary Porter (ALP)
Molonglo: Frank Pangallo (Pangallo Independents) elected instead of Jeremy Hanson (Liberal)

So overall ALP and Liberal would have each lost one seat to Independents.

This is entirely notional of course – the entire idea of combining first-past-the-post with multi-member electorates is braindead. The perverse outcomes you would get can be seen from these results – the ALP notionally lose a seat in Gininderra because of the personal popularity of Stanhope, and the Liberals lose one in Molonglo because of Zed’s personal popularity.

Roslyn Dundas was young, and I thought she was a quite good MLA (democrats – a couple of terms ago.)

Is this covered by the mainstream media yet?

farq said :

Talent/intelligence is a factor outside a member’s control too, still we want talented representatives. Is it unfair that the un-talented individuals in society are not represented!

/quote]

Oh I don’t know … I think that the ACT’s untalented individuals are EXTREMELY well represented in the ACT government!

Wrong electorate Inappropriate.

With no strong Liberals in Ginninderra Alistair can claim to have been elected off his own bat (although perhaps due to lack of choice in the conservative column)

Inappropriate said :

BerraBoy68 said :

BTW: don’t get me wrong here, I have no idea what the hell people were thinking when they voted for a person with no real life experience and who apparently wants to be a career politician without any real foundation on which to place his ideals, other than mummy and daddy vote liberal, to be their elected representative.

Sorry, but I call”s it as I see it.

I think his votes came from the redistribution of Zed’s overflow of votes. I don’t think Coe got many first preferences.

maybe that is the biggest problem. perhaps the vote should be for the majority party, ignoring preferences. If the preference system was ignored, who would be in power in the ACT government now?

Inappropriate10:21 am 17 Jun 09

BerraBoy68 said :

BTW: don’t get me wrong here, I have no idea what the hell people were thinking when they voted for a person with no real life experience and who apparently wants to be a career politician without any real foundation on which to place his ideals, other than mummy and daddy vote liberal, to be their elected representative.

Sorry, but I call”s it as I see it.

I think his votes came from the redistribution of Zed’s overflow of votes. I don’t think Coe got many first preferences.

Talent/intelligence is a factor outside a member’s control too, still we want talented representatives. Is it unfair that the un-talented individuals in society are not represented!

I agree height is not really important, but age/life-experience is (at least to me as a voter).

I think it is really good to have a good mix of folks on any team that represents the broader society; mature, experienced, young, old, married, male, female, single, gay, straight, conservative, left-leaning, greenies, unionists, born here, born elsewhere etc. I am quite disappointed with the apparent fixation on Coe’s age and height; these types of barbs, made purely on the basis of factors beyond his control (his age and height) are frankly discriminatory.

Simon Corbell does have the loveliest smile, though!

BerraBoy68 said :

I’m also extremely dubious about anybody that wants to enter politics at so young an age. Politics as a career choice for its own sake seems to be all about wanting power and this is very bad to me.

Hit the nail on the head. Without any life experience beyond the young libs and school what could he possibly offer ordinary voters?

Granny said :

I think it’s a mistake to assume that people have nothing to contribute because they are younger. The youngest ever Prime Minister in Britain presided over the abolition of slavery in that nation.

We are still dealing with a young gifted entrant to the ACT Legislative Assembly, one Simon Corbell. Give the boy a few years of panel beating from the other MLA’s and we’ll see what he morphs into.

BerraBoy, I think people of all ages bring something to the table.

Everyone needs to vote for the candidates they think will best represent their views. We have the system we have, and as a result some candidates are elected.

Personally I don’t think anybody else is truly in a position to make an informed judgement about a person’s motivation for seeking a particular career path, or what knowledge or beliefs they may or may not possess.

All I know is that people who have lived a lot less years have made contributions to groups or committees I have served on that have been every bit as valuable as the members who have lived longer and experienced more.

Sometimes it’s not a matter of experience so much as a fresh perspective, or of doing something anyway because you’re too young to realise you can’t.

But I really don’t want to argue with you. You have a right to your opinion, as I do to mine, and they’re not always going to coincide. That’s ok with me, and I hope it is fine with you too. I would rather lose an argument than lose a friendship.

This probably just shows that we all vote for people ‘like us’, hence the expensive election-time marketing campaigns. For some people, age is one of the important factors.

As an aside, how old was Stott Despoja when she was elected?

kowpow said :

BerraBoy68,

Why shouldn’t young people have the right to elect people who represent the kind of society ‘they’ want to live in?

Mr Coe is just 1 in 17 and represents a portion of the community – young or old, it doesn’t matter.

I could extend your argument and say that, as a person under 30, and as someone who will inherit the mess left by the politicians of today, we should stop people over 50 becoming MPs because they are old, stuck in their ways, not in touch with the future, and focussed only on ensuring they can live well in retirement.

Why is the society that ‘you’ want to live in any more worthy than the people who voted for Mr Coe, or any of the other 16 MLAs? We live in a democracy and what you’re proposing it to somehow screen candidates based on a subjective criteria that you believe in. Where do we stop? What other kind of people do you want to screen out from standing to represent our community? You do get that right – and that is your one vote. Exercise it based on your own beliefs and values – but respect the choices of others.

In any case, Mr Coe seems to be a well-adjusted and educated member of our community. I enjoy fresh ideas and a new way of thinking, rather than some stale middle-aged fuddy duddy who is cynical and only interested in themselves.

\

Good for you. But please read my post again as you are ascribing arguments to me that I never made. I never suggested screening, stopping anybody from running etc… I merely stated my own view that I’d rather have more experienced people running for office and having an impact over my life and that of my family. Nor did I ever say my views were more worthy of those of others, again I merely put my own views forward. so dont put your words into my mouth to support your own argument, just argue them on their own merits. I always respect the views of others but are you going to practice what you preach and respect mine?

Granny said :

The UN believes that even children should have the right to influence decisions about their city.

Why shouldn’t a young man be entitled to do the same?

Many people do their best work before 30.

His electorate have chosen him to represent their interests in the Territory.

That’s democracy.

It should be simple really. If a shadow minister is entitled to a briefing he should have it. If not he shouldn’t.

I don’t pretend to know any more than that.

You’re confusing points:

1.I stand by my statement that I’d rather have people with some practical experience in life making decision that impact our lives;
2. young people can influence events but, as I stated above, their views should be based on experience rather than just relying on someone else’s thoughts and experience (ideologies have been developed over many years based on people often hard earned experiences, not just fancy book learning);
3. Not everybody voted for Coe in his Electorate, or in fact anybody in the Assembly, so it’s fair to say a number people in his electorate voted for him rather than just ‘his electorate’ (small point but hey, its the mood I’m in);
4. I’m not against young people running for elected office but I’d rather a 27 year old who’s worked two or three jobs, is paying a mortgage, understand what it’s like to be unemployed or run a business, fed a family and understand from expereince why things need to change to have an influence over my life (and that of my family) rather than someone that runs for office as soon as they can purely as it seems a cool career choice.

5. Regardless of my beliefs as stated, Coe in his current position should still be entitled to a Briefing. As I’ve already said, Coe may well have had brieifing’s on individual issues, but he should still get one on the whole portfolio.

Granny said :

You’re beginning to sound scary.

jo? nothing compared to whoever posted the tosh that just got moderated out of existance

You’re beginning to sound scary.

kowpow said :

BerraBoy68,

Why shouldn’t young people have the right to elect people who represent the kind of society ‘they’ want to live in?

Not that anyone suggested that young people shouldn’t vote, but you can bet they didn’t vote for Boy Coe. If your question meant to ask why shouldn’t young people have the right to be elected, the answer is obvious; Boy Coe

The UN believes that even children should have the right to influence decisions about their city.

Why shouldn’t a young man be entitled to do the same?

Many people do their best work before 30.

His electorate have chosen him to represent their interests in the Territory.

That’s democracy.

It should be simple really. If a shadow minister is entitled to a briefing he should have it. If not he shouldn’t.

I don’t pretend to know any more than that.

bd84 said :

I wish the Chief Minister would stop misusing the “Chief Minister media release” for his own political BS. If he wanted to have spray his own political rubbish he should be issuing media releases under the Labor party banner.

I wish bd84 woould stop posting as bd84 when making polotical points – it’s such a gross misuse of his/her posting name.

Perhaps we should also ask whether Mr Seselja’s office, those of the other Liberals or of the Greens are to likewise be banned from any ‘political’ work.

The idea is a nonsesense.

BerraBoy68,

Why shouldn’t young people have the right to elect people who represent the kind of society ‘they’ want to live in?

Mr Coe is just 1 in 17 and represents a portion of the community – young or old, it doesn’t matter.

I could extend your argument and say that, as a person under 30, and as someone who will inherit the mess left by the politicians of today, we should stop people over 50 becoming MPs because they are old, stuck in their ways, not in touch with the future, and focussed only on ensuring they can live well in retirement.

Why is the society that ‘you’ want to live in any more worthy than the people who voted for Mr Coe, or any of the other 16 MLAs? We live in a democracy and what you’re proposing it to somehow screen candidates based on a subjective criteria that you believe in. Where do we stop? What other kind of people do you want to screen out from standing to represent our community? You do get that right – and that is your one vote. Exercise it based on your own beliefs and values – but respect the choices of others.

In any case, Mr Coe seems to be a well-adjusted and educated member of our community. I enjoy fresh ideas and a new way of thinking, rather than some stale middle-aged fuddy duddy who is cynical and only interested in themselves.

I wish the Chief Minister would stop misusing the “Chief Minister media release” for his own political BS. If he wanted to have spray his own political rubbish he should be issuing media releases under the Labor party banner.

Whether or not he has a point is another story, the CM claims that Coe has had briefings, but what the briefings were for is another story.

Granny said :

I think it’s a mistake to assume that people have nothing to contribute because they are younger. The youngest ever Prime Minister in Britain presided over the abolition of slavery in that nation.

The example you make is a valid one, Granny, but I doubt any issue of the same importance as slavery exists in the ACT that would cause us all to rally behind Mr Coe. I’m not saying Coe can’t contribute as yet but what can his, as yet, limited life experience add to his arguments? Does he know what’s good for people because he was told it was so by his folks or at school, or has he actually lived enough to know and really understand the realities of life for average folks? I’m a firm believer in life education but I’m also extremely dubious about anybody that wants to enter politics at so young an age. Politics as a career choice for its own sake seems to be all about wanting power and this is very bad to me. No, there has to be deeper meaning of what you want to change and why. Again, you can’t get this solely from a book or your parents.

For the record I used to believe I had to vote for the same party as my parents as they had good solid arguments for supporting their party of choice. Also, Politics can become like a football club with tribal allegiances strictly enforced regardless of the tactics employed or who’s picked to play on the team. Any dissent at home against my folks party of choice was met with swift and often violent argument.

Now I’m older, I’ve gone 180 degrees on what I thought I believed just 10 years ago. Not because my parents have changed their views but because I’ve grown up, gained a lot life experience and can make my own mind up on what I see as priorities in the ACT and the kind of society ‘I’ want to live in.

In short, I’d prefer my elected representatives to have some solid practical, as well as theoretical, understanding of how their decisions will effect people. ‘Book learning’ is great but it only goes so far.

BTW: This isn’t to say that there there aren’t some very important issues in the ACT than need to be addressed. We both know there are!

Granny said :

I think it’s a mistake to assume that people have nothing to contribute because they are younger. The youngest ever Prime Minister in Britain presided over the abolition of slavery in that nation.

Don’t give the little fella any ideas Granny, he might seek to re-introduce it. Oh sorry that’s already been tried; Workchoices

To quote little Thumbalina:

“I asked a range of questions in relation to ACTION buses, roads, paths, street lighting, parking fees, efficiency dividends, shopping centres, and other topics.

“Despite writing to the Chief Minister on numerous occasions since becoming the Shadow Minister for TAMS, I am yet to receive a briefing on the portfolio.

If after being briefed on four occasions in a little over six months by the Acting Chief Executive of TAMS, Executive Director of Environment and Recreation Network, Acting Executive Director of Enterprises Services, Director of Parks, Conservation and Lands, General Manager of ACTION, Manager of Heritage and Manager of Contracts at ACT No Waste, the school boy still doesn’t understand, he should avoid drawing his inadequacies to public attention.

I think it’s a mistake to assume that people have nothing to contribute because they are younger. The youngest ever Prime Minister in Britain presided over the abolition of slavery in that nation.

Who say’s he got it wrong? From my reading of the Labor Press release it appears that Mr Coe may well have been briefed on four individual and specific issues, not the on the ‘Portfolio’ as a whole as claimed by Coe. While the shadow Ministry deserve to be properly briefed on the portfolio to which their position relates, I am also informed that Coe isn’t the only Shadow Minister to request, but be denied, proper briefing’s from various ACT Gov’t Departments on Ministerial instruction.

BTW: don’t get me wrong here, I have no idea what the hell people were thinking when they voted for a person with no real life experience and who apparently wants to be a career politician without any real foundation on which to place his ideals, other than mummy and daddy vote liberal, to be their elected representative.

Sorry, but I call”s it as I see it.

YapYapYap said :

Come on Young Libs – PM and housebound – tell us how the young savant got this so wrong.

I am not young (sadly). I am not a Lib. I am not Young Libs. Never have been, never will. I am also not Labor. I swing, usually an election too early as it turns out.

But in this town, NOT attacking Libs constantly seems to mark one out as a Howard supporter.

I don’t come from ACT, so maybe that’s why I don’t really get it. Why does it make one a young libs to say the following very Coe-‘supportive’ comments:
Surely a shadow minister should get a briefing, unless you think that being young or a member of non-ALP disqualifies you from even being given the chance to do what you’re paid to do. AND … people would be critical if the Libs/Greens were silent, and critical if they weren’t.

Come on Young Libs – PM and housebound – tell us how the young savant got this so wrong.

Mr Evil said :

I’m sorry, but I just can’t take Coe seriously – he reminds me too much of Pitt the Younger from Blackadder the Third.

Oh god that’s spot on.

“I now call on the Leader of the Opposition to test me on my Latin vocab…” (with thanks to imdb).

Gosh, who do we believe in this ‘he said, he didn’t say’ scenario?

Interesting update…

I’d like to know whether these were briefings of a shadow minister level, or the briefings that all MLAs receive. For example, I’m aware that a number of MLAs were briefed on the Belconnen Town Centre changes, but I wouldn’t place that in the same class as a proper portfolio briefing.

Inappropriate3:35 pm 16 Jun 09

Mr Evil said :

I’m sorry, but I just can’t take Coe seriously – he reminds me too much of Pitt the Younger from Blackadder the Third.

+1

MrMagoo said :

Regardless of your political leanings, you’d have to say that the amount of bleating that comes from Messers Coe, Hanson and Doszpot its any wonder the Liberals can’t win office. Everyone is so tired of listening to them whine and moan.

I don’t think so – I’m not tired of it!

MrMagoo said :

Regardless of your political leanings …

… people would be critical if the Libs/Greens were silent, and critical if they weren’t.

Regardless of your political leanings, you’d have to say that the amount of bleating that comes from Messers Coe, Hanson and Doszpot its any wonder the Liberals can’t win office. Everyone is so tired of listening to them whine and moan.

let the baby have his bottle, give him his briefing, that’ll shut him up …for a while.

Surely a shadow minister should get a briefing, unless you think that being young or a member of non-ALP disqualifies you from even being given the chance to do what you’re paid to do.

Woody Mann-Caruso12:19 pm 16 Jun 09

+1

I’m sorry, but I just can’t take Coe seriously – he reminds me too much of Pitt the Younger from Blackadder the Third.

amarooresident211:57 am 16 Jun 09

Even if he’d had a briefing I doubt TAMS officers could answer his questions right there and then. He would still have had to put them in writing.

That’s the Stanhope I know and love.

To not have received a briefing after this amount of time is pretty bad, isn’t it?

Also, I’ve heard that the number of questions may have been inflated because some wanted data suburb by suburb ie each suburb counts as a question.

Inappropriate11:14 am 16 Jun 09

Perhaps Alistair should bring a note from his mother?

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