Should I move to Canberra?

vintage123 said :

First thing to explain the term “price fall” it has not actually been a reduction in price, it has just been a fall in the expected growth, and as that growth falls below inflation it is categorised by many as a price fall. When in fact it is not its just a reduction in growth rate. There are no properties in the ACT selling for 2009 prices. Far from it.

Nominal prices have fallen substantially. SQM’s data shows around an 11% fall in nominal prices (i.e. not inflation adjusted) over the last 3 years.

There are plenty of houses in the ACT selling for 2009 prices, e.g:

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/property-research/12-milari-street-ngunnawal-act-2913/20464014311
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/property-research/15-levine-street-evatt-act-2617/20201584111
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/property-research/30-gluyas-street-farrer-act-2607/20453412011
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/property-research/6-36-frencham-street-downer-act-2602/201316981711

Some good advice in here. Queanbeyan is worth a look and will result in fewer hassles (eg car rego) if and when you move, due to it being in NSW. The key to property prices is the public sector job market. This week another 1000 Defence job cuts were announced, most of which will be in Canberra. There are only so many cashed up Mr Fluffy buyers who can offset this trend. That said, if this year’s budget is not framed as harshly as last year’s (given what the PM said a few weeks ago), and if every problem is no longer seen as soluble only via more public service cuts, then things should stabilise. My personal view is that it isn’t a bad time to buy, because if I am wrong about the budget and the government does keep sacking public servants as the answer to every problem, they are likely to get turfed out next year. I bought in Queanbeyan last year, at a price that was 1-2 per cent higher than the property changed hands for in 2009. I’m still nervous about more cuts meaning I might be underwater for a year or two, but I can weather that. Good luck.

Hey OP, it’s good you’re considering moving to Canberra.

Firstly, as a resident of “new” Macgregor, it is not bad at all. I came to this house by way of my partner, and I used to live Inner North, so I thought it was the ends of the Earth. Having lived here a while now, it’s really not. It takes me 30-40minutes to drive to Barton to work, parking is $12 a day, which is far nicer than Sydney prices. We have a lovely 3 bedroom house, 3 years old, a really good sized garden – big enough for two paved areas to have meals, a veggie patch, and a proper washing line, plus a nice lawn. My brother lives in Gungahlin – he has a nice sized house, but his garden is pretty tiny – more like a courtyard.

Our neighbours here are lovely, mix of backgrounds, renters and first home buyers. We’ve never had any problems, quite the opposite. Everyone’s quiet, and does keep to themselves, but if there’s any issue, we’re all out there to help. Wind blowing stuff down the street – next door’s dog escaping, and I’ve had across the road knock on my door and let me know I’ve left the lights on on my car so many times I should really have learnt by now.

Then there’s the views. Beautiful Brindabellas, driving to work on William Hovel Drive gives you such amazing aspects, it’s worth the 40mins in the car to work for those sunrises. You get the most amazing sunrises and sunsets out this way, and paddocks are only a short walk away, there’s a horse track through the area, so I’m always seeing people out on their horses with their dogs, it’s brilliant. Great parks for kids, and Kippax shops is a 5 minute drive, plus schools and highschools pretty close and a new early learning centre operated by YWCA opening soon.

The downside is the public transport – which is about the same for anywhere in Canberra which isn’t Inner North, Inner South, or on the main red and blue lines. It would take me 1hr -1hr 30mins one way to get to work, sometimes 2 hours with the connections I’d need to wait for if I had to stay back at work past 6pm. So you really need to factor in two cars in Canberra if you have a young family and don’t live right in town (which will cost you more in mortgage.)

So I hope people aren’t dissuading you from new Macgregor. Canberra does have some less pleasant areas, but they’re mostly in the Government flats. I feel very safe here, the crime rates I think are pretty much the same, if not lower than Sydney.

As for work. I would job hunt first, move second. Most of Canberra is job hunting, I would say. Either through the redundancies or the fact a lot of positions are temp or non-ongoing, which means a lot of people are applying for only handful of jobs and you need more luck than skill to get noticed. It’s just the nature of Canberra at the minute. The Commonwealth pretty much dictates how everything else is.

As lovely as it is to live, it’s horrible if you don’t have a job, because work or study is where you generally make your friendship groups when you’re an outer-towner. And in winter, you can’t get anyone to do anything that doesn’t involve staying home with the heater, that wind can get pretty freezing.

Good luck with whatever you decide, though.

countach : don’t know if it was intended, but that last comment of yours about all the federal government money being taken to ACT & spent here, was quite incorrect.

Please understand, Federal government money does not fund the ACT – we are a self governing Territory. We pay our own rates & taxes etc.

My information is that the Federal Government does not even pay its legitimate rates etc because it has developed a system of “grant” which it applies instead of paying the normal rates & taxes. This is not equitable in the ACT because, what it is designed to cover, is about 5% elsewhere & is closer to 50% in ACT, but is calculated at the same rate. Not many people realise this.

Historically, the ACT exists to house the Federal or “common wealth” Government. In its conception & inception, as I understand it, it was never intended to be a self governing body. That came about as a cost cutting exercise by the Hawke-Keating government.

Sorry for the rant, but your comment really got under my skin. It’s so unfair. We operate on a very limited economic base here. And every time we get a federal government who wants to assert itself or save money or whatever, it makes drastic cuts across the Federal Public Service & the whole economy here goes into recession. Then insult is added to injury as we hear it’s ok because they’re just cutting the lazy fat cats in the Public Service. They are, after all, just other working Australians.

As for the ones in the house on the hill : the ACT is only responsible for 4 of them; the rest of Australia is responsible for the remainder !

Oh yes, and as for coming to Canberra? My advice is think twice. I think that if this government goes ahead with a tram that is looking like costing $1B – (before we start paying interest on that loan – about another $2B) & deal with the Mr Fluffy houses (& the interest on those loans), I doubt we’ll have hospitals, schools, roads, parks, or any other facilities. I also expect the rates, electricity and all taxes levied here will be off the scale. You are really welcome, but be careful.

I wouldn’t sell your house up there until you’ve been working here for a couple of years and are sure your wife likes it.

Every year the government collects taxes from all over the country and spends it in Canberra. So it’s like Canberra is a massive net exporter of bureaucracy. That means that usually Canberra real estate does quite well. You can’t keep collecting money from everywhere and spend it in a city and that city not do well. My prediction is the Canberra market will move up soon, but we’ll see.

Buy low, sell high. Sydney is high now, and Canberra has been stagnant, but might make a move up soon. Rent first so you understand where you like, then sell in Sydney is my opinion.

You will love moving from Sydney to Canberra. I’ve never been out of work in IT. But Find a job first so you have security clearance. Best to line up the job first.

Hi Sydney Sider,

I work in the property industry, Id be more than happy to give you some advise on real estate in Canberra and as a local (born and breed in Canberra) I’ve got fairly good knowledge of Canberra. Feel free to email me shevy85@live.com and if I can assist I will 🙂

I love it here in Canberra and enjoy helping people settle into our great City.

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

thatsnotme said :

Canberra location slang:

“Tuggers” = Tuggeranong
“Belco” = Belconnen
“Gunners” = Gungahlin
“Quangers” = Queanbeyan
“Jerra” = Jerrabomberra
“Civic” = Canberra City

There are probably more, but they’re the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Actually “Civic” is official, not slang. Government droogs attempted to make “Canberra City” the official title but had to reverse the decision a year or so later.

You sure about that?

The official title for the suburb referred to as “civic” is “city”. Civic isn’t official.

The suburb is Canberra City:

http://www.planning.act.gov.au/tools_resources/place_search/

Civic comes from Civic Square which is in the heart of Canberra City and has a Post Office of the same name.

dungfungus said :

Masquara said :

Sydney house prices are rising and Canberra house prices are going to fall due to public service cuts. So don’t sell up! You will need Australian citizenship to take a (rare) job in the federal public service. You can rent out your Sydney house and rent a house in a nice part of Canberra (inner north) until you decide what you want to do …

Err, house prices are going to fall because a few thousand public servants get culled?
If this is the case why is our government working overtime to encourage the market to be flooded with more homes to deliver the “added value” component of the light rail project?

Canberra has already had our fall, mainly over the last 18 months, but the market has not gone up meaningfully since about 2011.

Most of the cuts are now done, and some departments are even recruiting again. Private companies, especially IT, are also recruiting. I’d expect another 2-3 years of stagnation, then some pretty solid increases.

Masquara said :

thatsnotme said :

Canberra location slang:

“Tuggers” = Tuggeranong
“Belco” = Belconnen
“Gunners” = Gungahlin
“Quangers” = Queanbeyan
“Jerra” = Jerrabomberra
“Civic” = Canberra City

There are probably more, but they’re the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Actually “Civic” is official, not slang. Government droogs attempted to make “Canberra City” the official title but had to reverse the decision a year or so later.

You sure about that?

The official title for the suburb referred to as “civic” is “city”. Civic isn’t official.

Cook / Macquarie have easy access to all city, also 1 bus to city.

Masquara said :

Sydney house prices are rising and Canberra house prices are going to fall due to public service cuts. So don’t sell up! You will need Australian citizenship to take a (rare) job in the federal public service. You can rent out your Sydney house and rent a house in a nice part of Canberra (inner north) until you decide what you want to do …

Err, house prices are going to fall because a few thousand public servants get culled?
If this is the case why is our government working overtime to encourage the market to be flooded with more homes to deliver the “added value” component of the light rail project?

rubaiyat said :

SydneySider said :

Please also suggest is it better to buy a new house in Macgregor or an old house in Ngunnawal?

Should I wait one more year and get my citizenship and then move to Canberra?

Macgregor and that corner of Belconnen are the cheaper and seedier parts of Canberra. No way as bad as the worst parts of Sydney, but by our standards almost Housing Commission level. My son in Spence nearby, would really like to move away. He has been broken into and the neighbour is a piece. Every suburb however has its good and bad, even Spence and Macgregor will have better houses.

Macgregor’s prices are depressed because it is so far out, in a city of such small population.

Ngunnawal is not that old so the houses can’t really be that old either. Just watch out for construction quality. If it is possible to have worse than Sydney, Canberra has managed.

One thing you have to allow for in Canberra is prices for most things are higher than Sydney. Petrol is at least 10¢ more a litre, rates are high and also because it is a cold climate heating takes up a lot of your energy bills. Especially as few houses are actually built for this climate or facing north. Groceries are also higher. We do get cheaper Internet though.

If you are intending on starting a family it is a good place though, far better than Sydney.

G

My house in spence was broken into too recently. Little horrors! Karma will get them I’m sure.

thatsnotme said :

Canberra location slang:

“Tuggers” = Tuggeranong
“Belco” = Belconnen
“Gunners” = Gungahlin
“Quangers” = Queanbeyan
“Jerra” = Jerrabomberra
“Civic” = Canberra City

There are probably more, but they’re the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Actually “Civic” is official, not slang. Government droogs attempted to make “Canberra City” the official title but had to reverse the decision a year or so later.

A few points.
1. House prices.
Prices at the moment are inflated compared to just a few months ago.. Why – as stated by others up to 800 families have accepted government terms and a lot of them are looking to buy in the same suburb. Result, house for sale in those suburbs are almost all via auction at the moment which is driving prices up. This will be a short term impact but no one is sure whether prices will return to normal as demand drops off. My opinion – this is not a time to buy in Canberra

2. Employment
Since the election there has been a large decrease in recruitment for permanent positions across the board. The level of work has not deceased however and many government departments are in the middle of large ongoing IT projects to improve capability as the government moves towards a shared services model. Current impact ..the contract market is very hot and even average contractors are in demand (sadly). A good example of the impact is DSS given contractors make up 50% of the IT workforce. Yes, 50% and that was several months ago – its likely to be higher now.

3. Travel time
If you work in town, or work on the other side of town from where you live then yes, you could have travel times from 30-45 minutes depending on what time of day you travel. But Canberra has large government departments outside of Civic, DHS and DSS are in Tuggeranong and with the new DSS building coming in 2 years, the number of staff will only increase (they are leaving Woden). I live in Weston and work in Tuggers; door to door it is 15-25 minutes and I park across the road on top of the shopping centre.

For initial stability contact one of the larger private IT companies that pay a salary but hire you out as a contractor to government. Find your feet. Later on you can move out as an independent contractor (higher wage but higher risk) or eventually get a permanent public service job. Lots of options if you are good.

Good luck.

Canberra location slang:

“Tuggers” = Tuggeranong
“Belco” = Belconnen
“Gunners” = Gungahlin
“Quangers” = Queanbeyan
“Jerra” = Jerrabomberra
“Civic” = Canberra City

There are probably more, but they’re the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Sydney house prices are rising and Canberra house prices are going to fall due to public service cuts. So don’t sell up! You will need Australian citizenship to take a (rare) job in the federal public service. You can rent out your Sydney house and rent a house in a nice part of Canberra (inner north) until you decide what you want to do …

“Would I be able to get a newish 3 bed room house with bit of a backyard?”
There are no backyards Gungahlin . People can pass toilet paper between houses.

Looked for the original reference, seems like they are talking about Gungahlin.

SydneySider said :

(What is Gunner by the way? Slang for Gungahlin?)

Gunner is Gunderoo a small rural NSW town north of Canberra.

Some people live in regional towns like Yass, Murrambateman, Hall, Tharwa, Burra, Sutton, Bywong, Gunning, Gunderoo, Bungendore, Michelago etc and commute in.

Queanbeyan and its satellite suburbs of Jerrabombera, Googong and Tralee are also popular and affordable. Some of these are closer to people’s work in Canberra than many of Canberra’s outer suburbs.

Our heads are spinning, and so far we have got the following points from this fabulous feedback in comments, and we have decided to :

1) Not to sell in Sydney for now and wait for our citizenship
2) Don’t limit ourselves to Gungahlin and Belco. (What is Gunner by the way? Slang for Gungahlin?)
3) We want newish property with small yard or small playarea for kid, but we don’t want to exceed our budget as I cannot live with much of mortgage stress.
4) Property market may likely slowly grow over the next 1 to 2 years so we have time to do more research and wait for citizenship.
5) Cold is not much of problem as we can adapt
6) Will research about Oracle dba job market more as I don’t want to remain unemployed and live on dole (No disrespect intended to those who live on that please).
6) Keep researching and reading about Canberra as that is where our heart is.

And what a community this is. Very helpful, very kind and realistic. We are speechless with gratitude for all this help. I intend to take part in discussions here and be part of this awesome community. Please feel free to direct message me if that facility is available here. If anyone of you drop by to Oxley Park Sydney, we would love to host you. Thanks again and keep guiding us.

arescarti42 said :

SydneySider said :

If anybody has any info/data about expectations of 1-2 year future of Canberra realestate market then it will be great to hear about it. I understand that its hard to predict, but any educated guesses? Will it go up, down, or stay put? Thank you again.

My best guess is prices will continue to fall here.

For context, prices in Canberra peaked around late 2011, and have since fallen steadily, and are now about where they were in 2009.

The weak job market and substantial new housing supply in areas like Gungahlin and Molonglo Valley are weighing heavily on the property market, despite record low interest rates.

We also haven’t experienced the speculative investor mania which is driving prices in Sydney and Melbourne.

I don’t think any of this is likely to change any time soon.

sqmresearch.com.au have free data on Canberra for the last few years if you are interested.

First thing to explain the term “price fall” it has not actually been a reduction in price, it has just been a fall in the expected growth, and as that growth falls below inflation it is categorised by many as a price fall. When in fact it is not its just a reduction in growth rate. There are no properties in the ACT selling for 2009 prices. Far from it.

In terms of what’s happening at the moment, there has been around 4% growth in the last quarter and around 1.5% in the preceding five quarters prior.

The Mr Fluffy crisis has stimulated some areas of the market, but principally this is the effected suburbs. The majority of this was initially offset by those who received redundancies from public service cuts selling their homes and moving out of canberra. This looks to continue with defences first principles review with another 1000 jobs to move from canberra.

With interest rates low and those still employed on high wages there has not been a huge stimulation to the market. Given that a state election is due next year, a federal election the year after, the huge interest in tax reform, especially negative gearing, capital gains concessions and home owner grants I would expect there to be a movement in the housing space.

My guess is a gradual increase in values in the vicinity of 4% per year with over the next two with a spike somewhere in between of 10% with a rush before negative gearing is changed and/or jobs released. If labour wins the federal election then I would envisage rises of 10% to 20% per year until the medium price regains Australia’s highest cost.

See this thread is what Canberra is all about– helping people out with useful info.
Well done everyone.

OP, the bottom line is when it comes to relocating to Canberra there are so many choices available to you. What I would suggest is working out what you want in a house and a community. Are you looking for big house with a small back yard? If so, you’re looking at the newer developments in Canberra, if you’re looking for a medium sized house with a bigger back yard, you are looking at the more established areas in Canberra.

I absolutely agree with the suggestion that you rent for a while– what looks good on paper in terms of a suburb may not fit what you want, so renting is an excellent way to feel your way through it. Like wise coming and visiting in June / July when it colder just to see what it’s like to live in a city that can top out at 4degrees during the day and get to -10 at night, during the winter (lets be a little clear on that, Canberra has the ability to have 50degree temperature range (-10 during a very cold winter and up to mid 40’s in the middle of summer).

Mostly though, don’t believe everything you read about Canberra– 20min commute is not always achievable, it really does depend on distance from work to home–the 20min thing is more a nod to the fact that in the ACT we don’t have to spend hours on the road like in larger cities like Sydney to get anywhere. Likewise, don’t believe everything you read about the “bad suburbs” in Canberra– yes, there are bad suburbs, however, you have to also remember that there is a certain percentage of housing in ALL suburbs in Canberra that are set aside for government / affordable housing, which does attract a certain rougher demographic– I know people who live in charnwood (considered by some to be a ghetto in Canberra) who have never had an issue, never had a break in and feel completely safe in the area, conversely I know people who moved into Nicholls (considered by some to be very high class real estate and an extremely safe area in Canberra) who couldn’t wait to leave because they were constantly broken into or generally unsafe walking the streets.

The only real way to feel your way through this is to come visit and see what’s what.

Good Luck and hopefully, Welcome to Canberra.

Postalgeek said :

I’d also be looking at the new Molonglo developments. Canberra has an elongated north-south layout. You could do worse than to position yourself in the central west with easy access to many great outdoor facilities such as Stromlo and the arboretum.

The OPs budget was 460k including expenses, for a home with a backyard, 20 minutes commute from work. Home ownership in molongolo on that budget is not achievable. Land only is over 400k.

I’d also be looking at the new Molonglo developments. Canberra has an elongated north-south layout. You could do worse than to position yourself in the central west with easy access to many great outdoor facilities such as Stromlo and the arboretum.

Dont get fixated on Belco/Gunners. In the 23 years I have lived in Canberra I have lived all over except Gungahlin as it wasn there before I settled in Tuggereanong. I boubt I will be looking to move out there either as there is little to attract me to the area.

There is Weston, Woden and Tuggeranong.

Weston is is a pretty good area with no “bad” suburbs so to speak and a lot of new development to the north which will bring change. It has a central location, 10 minutes to Woden (large mall with everything you need) and 10-15 to the City. Public transport is a bit of an issue though as you generally have to take two buses with the transfer being in Woden.

Woden has a bit of new development with regards to apartment living but you may struggle with finding something in your price range. Again, Woden has all you need and is 10 minutes drive from the City from the roundabout at the Start of Yarra Glen.

Then there is Tuggers, pretty well all the northsiders bag Tuggers but most of them have never lived down here (a bit like Canberrans Canberra bashing). Yep there are a couple of bad suburbs (Richrdson, some areas of Kambah) but they are no worse than Charnwood or Macgregor. Public transport is pretty good for the most, the route service buses take 1/2 an hour and go direct to the city via Woden. The commute in a car to the city for the most part is 25-40 (25 being non peak to 40 being peak). There are no real traffic hold ups at peak times like Northbourne Ave.

Real estate would be affordable for you at well, you will be able to set yourself up into a 3 beddy or even a 4 beddy at a stretch depending on where you look.

Kambah, the northern most suburb:

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/sale-residential/kambah/121477510

Gordon, the southern most suburb:

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/act/sale-residential/gordon/121499510

The other thing, there is the Dept of Human Services down here, a number of my friends live in Tuggers and work there so they dont have to do the commute into the City. There are jobs outside the parliamentary triangle.

My circumstance ATM, I live in Lanyon Valley, work in the City. My wife works in Mitchell. We travel in the earlier part of the peak times and it takes her 30 minutes to get to work (drive, public trasport is out for her) and I can get to work in the City in 25. This morning I left home at 7:25 and pulled into the car park at the Canberra Centre at 8:10 after getting fuel at Costco which is a bit out of the way. It only takes me nearly an hour if I have to pick the kids up (they are in different schools but that will change next year).

Anyway, have a look south, you may be presently surprised.

Oh, I forgot buses, the public transport is a bit sketchy in Canberra, I can get an express bus that takes 35 minutes into the City but if you live in say Monash its a PITA as you have to go into the Tuggers bus interchange. Mind you, this is not unique to Tuggers, other sections of the city have the same issue.

Hard to say if it will go up or down. Based on anecdotal evidence and some commentary in the Canberra Times, Canberra may experience a mini housing boom over the coming few years. Primarily as a result of 1200 homes purchased by the ACT Government due to Asbestos issues. Google Mr Fluffy Canberra.
Basically there will be 1200 families looking for a place to buy/rent over the next few years and this may stimulate that mini boom.

With regards to obtaining a clearance and how long it takes, again difficult to predict, there are a number of factors that can cause delays. I’ve seen anything from a few months to on average between 6 and 12 months and out to two years. Some factors include the clearance type, Protected, Secret etc and also your past, criminal record, past work experiences, previous countries of residence etc.

I agree with a few other comments here, keep your home in Sydney. Once you sell in Sydney you can never go back. House prices in Canberra are unlikely to ever grow as quickly or to the same levels as Sydney.

Good luck.

SydneySider said :

If anybody has any info/data about expectations of 1-2 year future of Canberra realestate market then it will be great to hear about it. I understand that its hard to predict, but any educated guesses? Will it go up, down, or stay put? Thank you again.

My best guess is prices will continue to fall here.

For context, prices in Canberra peaked around late 2011, and have since fallen steadily, and are now about where they were in 2009.

The weak job market and substantial new housing supply in areas like Gungahlin and Molonglo Valley are weighing heavily on the property market, despite record low interest rates.

We also haven’t experienced the speculative investor mania which is driving prices in Sydney and Melbourne.

I don’t think any of this is likely to change any time soon.

sqmresearch.com.au have free data on Canberra for the last few years if you are interested.

Shad0w said :

Hey SydneySider

You will be welcome, and remember there are plenty of people that have made the same journey as you and love our city. We’ll look forward to welcoming you!

How nice!!!

We are overwhelmed by the genuine, sympathetic, realistic, and selfless help in comments here. Thank you so much. We will follow the advice and will stay put in Sydney until I get my citizenship. Our future seems to be in Canberra. And this discussion is helping us a lot about deciding where to buy when the time comes.

If anybody has any info/data about expectations of 1-2 year future of Canberra realestate market then it will be great to hear about it. I understand that its hard to predict, but any educated guesses? Will it go up, down, or stay put? Thank you again.

Back to your original post, you mentioned two prime inferences as to why you thought canberra would suit you. One, that you are fascinated by the 20 minute commute that canberra offers and two, that sydney is too crowded and the real estate is too expensive.

To be honest not many people in Canberra have a 20 minute commute. Definitely not in peak hour. However few people have a 90 minute commute. Some do though like commuters from yass and breadbox.

When you compare apples to apples in real estate terms canberra is just as expensive as sydney. You may find the prices are lower in some suburbs however it just means the houses and land is smaller. I remember when I was running my property development company that Canberra was nearly twice as expensive to build identical design when compared to sydney. Things have changed a little recently, mainly Sydney prices have risen but real estate in the capital is by no means cheap.

Most of my staff who have moved from Sydney to Canberra have compromised on housing, weather and entertainment, that said the most successful and longstanding are usually professional couples who are both employed full time. Canberra does have a high cost of living. The average weekly income per person is $1665. Couples twice that.

What I found was the standout attraction to move to Canberra was wages. For me I was earning $150k in Sydney for ten years and within twelve months in Canberra I had doubled my salary. However with current job freezes this is not the norm any longer. That allowed me to purchase a holiday home at Batemans bay, like a lot of other Canberrians and spend time off work by the beach.

Hey SydneySider

Watto23 and Ryoma summed things up really well. I think the suggestion of rent your place there and rent a place here for a while would be a particularly good idea. It would help you get a feel for Canberra and where you might like to live longer term. Also the point about the weather is a good one – the biggest complaints from outsiders is the cold, however Canberra is really exquisite on a crisp, cold but sunny day in winter.

Despite some people’s experiences and anecdotes about Canberra, I have usually always worked with people who were happy to head out for a picnic on a weekend, invited me to BBQs or suggested ways to get involved in the Canberra community. Like moving to any city, it takes some research & initiative to seek these activities out, and a willingness to speak up and say to people ‘we’re new and keen to get involved and make friends’. As Ryoma said, Meetup is a great resource for that and you could even start your own group for your own area of interest. Schools are also another great connector, and there will always be people in a similar situation to yourself who are new and looking for the same thing. If you’re positive, friendly and have a good attitude, you’re going to make the best of where ever you go.

Do take on Watto’s advice about work and clearances. It might take some time – however, if you’re already working from home, perhaps you could continue to do so from Canberra until citizenship/clearance comes through. I’d be hitting up some agencies/companies for info about the process and what’s involved. Perhaps you can already get the ball rolling on a clearance prior to the finalisation of your citizenship. If you’re a good Oracle DBA, then you would be in demand – and you might find some contract agencies willing to assist you with your clearance if it means they can place you in a role. Really, this is probably the sticking point for you at the moment – once that obstacle is overcome, the rest should fall into place.

In terms of housing, the newer dwellings are almost exclusively on the north side of the city – Gunghalin and some outer parts of Belconnen. But as others have noted, if you’re willing (like many of us living here are) to accept an older place, there is plenty to choose from to rent all over Canberra – the advantage being more gardens, trees, etc. $500 per week will get you something decent in most suburbs north or south. I would say don’t exclude the south side as an option, but that’s because I’ve tried both and prefer it south of the lake.

If you really like it here, find a way to make it work. It’s a beautiful place. You will be welcome, and remember there are plenty of people that have made the same journey as you and love our city. We’ll look forward to welcoming you!

Maya123 said :

Are there any really bad areas in Canberra, as least in areas with private ownership? I was told that (lower) Narrabundah was bad when I moved there years ago, but I never had any problems.

No most suburbs have about 10% public housing and Canberra is generally demographically similar for most suburbs except for a few of the wealthier ones.

Maya123 said :

Are there any really bad areas in Canberra, as least in areas with private ownership? I was told that (lower) Narrabundah was bad when I moved there years ago, but I never had any problems.

Narrabundah should in theory at least be already gentrifying. It is a lovely location, not far from the city, Manuka, Griffith and Kingston. Very handy in fact. It has some very nice restaurants in the shopping centre and the local facilities are not bad.

Historically it was cheap because it was next to Fyshwick, and rather low lying.

First place I ever saw about twenty mattresses, springs only, being used as a fence. 😉

Are there any really bad areas in Canberra, as least in areas with private ownership? I was told that (lower) Narrabundah was bad when I moved there years ago, but I never had any problems.

Due to the APS jobs freeze, jobs are tougher to come by at the moment. I personally wouldn’t move down here until you have registered with temp agencies and secured a contractor role.

On the other hand, right now the ACT has the second lowest unemployment rate in Australia, after the NT. That shows that people are still finding work.

As for the [lifestyle/property/everything else] equation, I wrote something about this a few years ago. Suggest you take a look: http://the-riotact.com/a-tale-of-two-cities-canberra-vs-sydney/73816

mmmich said :

I live in Ngunnawal and certainly wouldn’t call it dodgy. It’s a fairly big suburb though so perhaps there are worse areas.

Please mention the worse areas. Thanks.

I live in Ngunnawal and certainly wouldn’t call it dodgy. It’s a fairly big suburb though so perhaps there are worse areas. There’s a lot of new construction and is full of young families and couples mostly.

I work in the city and it takes me less than 20 mins to drive in in the mornings and maybe 25 tops to get home. If I get the bus from Gungahlin town centre it’s about 25 mins and there’s a free park n ride carpark.

I bought out there because of affordability but it’s quite a nice place to live. Because so much of the region is new there are heaps of good facilities and you’re pretty spoilt for choice.
I would certainly choose something in the Gungahlin region over west Belconnen.
In terms of jobs, there are certainly some APS jobs you can get without citizenship, though I believe it’s on a case by case basis for those with PR heading for citizenship. You could talk to some employment agencies re clearances – they are definitely a more difficult thing to combat. Without a job they’re hard and expensive to get and hard to get a job without one. But if your skills and experience are sought after there’s usually always a way.

Canberra’s house market, after years of being on top, is now falling behind Sydney and the other capitals, so hanging onto Sydney might pay, but there are never guarantees.

There was a recent arson attack in Ngunawal and my son mentioned a stabbing.

http://localstats.qpzm.com.au/stats/act/canberra/gungahlin/ngunnawal

The comments are very helpful in getting the expectations, preferences, and perspective realistic and right. Couple more questions please:

1) Whats the outlook for Canberra property market for the next 1 to 2 years? Is it expected to go up, down, or will stay put especially in Gungahlin area and Queanbeyan?

2) By job freeze, it means even the contractors who work for government are not hiring too?

3) Is Ngunnawal a suburb to be avoided too as mentioned by one commentator? or are there any streets or area within that? Please mention the streets or roughly the area to be avoided.

Employment picture is pretty much clear too as was mentioned here http://ozmashup.com.au/oracle-jobs-in-canberra/ as it says the same thing. How much time does it take to get security clearance?

Thanks again. Highly appreciate the help.

To get a better handle on the ACT Land Rent Scheme:

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSbmTJxRlVB.0AxzwL5gt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydmltOXB0BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw–/RV=2/RE=1427781194/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.beyondbank.com.au%2fdms%2fdocument-repository%2fHome-Loan-documents%2fLand-Rent-Scheme-FAQs%2fLand%2520Rent%2520Scheme%2520FAQs.pdf/RK=0/RS=6VtKtkmPBsBw4JG3NQWRrVm6V.g-

The ACT does not have freehold land as in other states. Freehold you buy and own the land forever.

Most land in the ACT is Leasehold which is a 99 year lease from the ACT Government. In practice this is treated as if it is freehold.

I don’t know of any case where the lease had to be renewed after 99 years, although logically there must be land that has had the lease expire. Canberra is now 101 years old. Someone may enlighten us on what happens at the end of the 99 years.

If you’d like my opinion. Opt for this. Keep your house in Sydney and rent it out. (Frankly, if you sell out of the Sydney market, you’ll never be able to afford to get back in.)

However, come to Canberra for a try before you buy type scenario & rent for a year or two. Perhaps even try living on North and then the South to see which you prefer.

That way you’re not putting all your eggs into the one basket.

But, I’d also agree – at the moment jobs are a bit thin on the ground here.

All said and done though – it leaves Sydney for dead!

Good luck though.

On the security clearance side of things, keep in mind that clearances can take a while to process, which means you probably won’t be able to find work.
To obtain a clearance you need to be a citizen and you have to be sponsored for one. I do believe you can self sponsor, but I don’t know the details of how it works, other than the cost is about $1500.
Most companies and recruiters won’t consider you for roles without a security clearance.
Obtain a clearance first if possible and then consider a move.

You won’t get a newish 3 bedroom freestanding house in Harrison for $460k including expenses. They usually go upwards of $520k in that area. You occasionally see a townhouses around the $475k mark, however they are fairly compact and crammed in out there. The strata and body corporate fees are higher than in Western Sydney due to the higher cost of doing business in the capital, along with the higher cost for tradies.

Be careful not to be misled by some of the advertising on allhomes, particularly regarding house and land packages using the land rent option. In bonner and moncreif for example there are a tonne of listings for house and land packages for say 399k or 449k. THIS PRICE DOES NOT Include the land, it is just the build cost. The land rent scheme is only used in the ACT, so you would not have heard of it in Sydney. For example the place on allhomes at bonner 137 Ida west west is the land rent price, this is the build only cost, you pay that price but you don’t own the land, you have to then pay rent for the land. To buy this place outright would be around $750k to $800k. The problem with the land rent scheme is it is skewing the data on canberra home prices, making them look cheaper than what they really are.

Aragornerama said :

There are no really bad suburbs in Canberra, so you’d be ok wherever you go.

Not quite true. We like to think so. Otherwise I agree with everything else you say.

SydneySider said :

Thank you for the responses. I and my wife are glued to these responses as we don’t know anybody in Canberra and would appreciate as much info as possible.

This Saturday I came to Canberra and looked at few properties in Bonner, Ngunnawal, and also in Macgregor. We were surprised to see that prices in Macgregor for 3 bed room house in new condition were around 400K, whereas in Bonner similar properties were around 460K.

Real estate agent told us that Macgregor, especially new Macgregor is like St Marys in Sydney and Bonner is like Strathfield in Sydney. Is that right? Is new Macgregor not a good area to live?

Please also suggest is it better to buy a new house in Macgregor or an old house in Ngunnawal?

Should I wait one more year and get my citizenship and then move to Canberra?

regards

I live in Old Macgregor, and don’t know a whole lot about what living in New Macgregor’s like, but we’ve never had any issues at all living here. In the old part, I think it does depend to some extent what street you live in – there are some streets that obviously have a lot of Government, or ex-Government housing, that look a bit messier and rougher. My street has lots of privately owned places, including a handful of owners who were here when the suburb was originally built in the early 70’s and have stayed ever since. It’s quiet, safe, with good facilities nearby. The commute into the city’s not bad either.

As for employment though, and especially seeing as you’re not a citizen yet, hold off. I’d say you should look for and secure a job before you sell up and move. You can always rent for a while, before finding a new home down here. 99% of your employment opportunities as an Oracle DBA will be in Government – we don’t really have much of the big private business that might use your skills down here, and as others have mentioned it might be tough to get a clearance as a non-citizen.

Good luck – I love living in Canberra, and can see why you’d want to move, but you really need to set it all up before making the decision.

Sydneysider, I concur with what is being said by the other posters here.

I’d suggest two other things, too. Firstly, come and visit during winter. I don’t know what your background is, but the climate here is quite different to Sydney. It is a lot drier all year round, and (at least where I am, in the northern part of the city, weeks can go past without rain. The winter is also a lot colder than anything much of coastal Sydney experiences, but if you live out west in Sydney, then it won’t come as such a shock. Canberra is windy in spring, (along with magpies swooping), summer is usually warm to hot (though not as humid as Sydney, autumn is just delightful, and winter is cold, although often clear and sunny.

But my real point here is that visiting in winter will give you a better perspective on life here. If you have only visited during the warmer parts of the year, then you will have seen people out and about a lot more. In winter, while there is activity, it tends to be less visible….and, depending upon where you are, it can feel like a ghost town at times.

Also, keep in mind that there is a lot of population turnover here. What this can mean socially is that it is not always easy to make new friends. On one side because some people feel that they are only here for a limited time, so they keep to themselves. On the other side, it can also mean that those who are well established see no need to make new friends. If you are newcomers here, it really will be up to you to join clubs and get involved in various interests. Using http://www.meetup.com/ will help too.

My second suggestion is that you actually rent for a time. That way, you have some capital to live on while you check out the job situation, without finding you have bought a giant millstone and no way to pay for it. As others have said, employment here is very soft at present and the city lacks other sectors beyond those paid for by public monies (i.e. government and universities) big enough to generate economic growth on a larger scale. As such, there is no guarantee that buying housing here would generate a return. I have seen my rent drop by 20% in the last 18 months…

If things turn out well for you after a year, then you’ll know more about if you wish to stay, and if buying a house is a good idea. If not, you will have more flexibility in making your next move.

In any case, good luck with whatever you decide 🙂

There are no really bad suburbs in Canberra, so you’d be ok wherever you go. That said, unless you’re really hankering for an isolated country vibe I’d skip Macgregor. Ngunnawal is better located, with the Gungahlin Town Centre and Gungahlin Pond within walking distance.

If you’re willing to compromise slightly on the size of your garden, some more central suburbs should be within reach. Harrison is the closest Gungahlin suburb (probably a 15 minute drive to Civic; perhaps more in traffic), is within walking distance of central Gungahlin, and has plenty of nice looking places inside your budget. The inner Belconnen suburbs (Bruce, Aranda, Macquarie, Page and Cook) are pleasant and should have the odd house/townhouse you can afford. All are only a quick drive from the centre of Canberra. Finally, Watson in the inner North is worth considering. It’s close to Dickson, an easy drive/bike ride to Civic, and is nice enough. The houses there are likely to be older than Gungahlin, but it’s the most central location within your price range. They’re all good options, so I’d encourage you to check out the neighbourhoods yourself and go with your instincts.

Regarding employment, most jobs in Canberra are in the public service. You won’t be able to get in until you’re a citizen. They’re also not hiring at the moment, due to a hiring freeze applied by the current government. I’m not sure how much longer it’ll last, but you’re unlikely to find a job here until you get citizenship anyway.

Good luck!

You’ll find it heaps easier to get a job in Canberra once your citizenship comes through. Despite what some say, there are plenty of IT jobs if you’re good at what you do.

Also, don’t just look at houses northside, there are lots of options for well-priced homes. Don’t discount Queanbeyan, either. It’s closer to the city time-wise than half of Canberra, has some very nice streets, and thanks to it’s reputation as being ‘struggle-town’ a couple of decades ago is still well priced compared to most of ACT.

SydneySider said :

Please also suggest is it better to buy a new house in Macgregor or an old house in Ngunnawal?

Just spoke to my son. I wasn’t aware of Ngunnawal as a place to live, but apparently it has a really rough reputation. Check it out carefully.

Back to whether you should move to Canberra? Get that job first, then move, as close to the job as you can afford. Rent temporarily whilst you settle in then after having got a feel for the place, buy.

SydneySider said :

Please also suggest is it better to buy a new house in Macgregor or an old house in Ngunnawal?

Should I wait one more year and get my citizenship and then move to Canberra?

Macgregor and that corner of Belconnen are the cheaper and seedier parts of Canberra. No way as bad as the worst parts of Sydney, but by our standards almost Housing Commission level. My son in Spence nearby, would really like to move away. He has been broken into and the neighbour is a piece. Every suburb however has its good and bad, even Spence and Macgregor will have better houses.

Macgregor’s prices are depressed because it is so far out, in a city of such small population.

Ngunnawal is not that old so the houses can’t really be that old either. Just watch out for construction quality. If it is possible to have worse than Sydney, Canberra has managed.

One thing you have to allow for in Canberra is prices for most things are higher than Sydney. Petrol is at least 10¢ more a litre, rates are high and also because it is a cold climate heating takes up a lot of your energy bills. Especially as few houses are actually built for this climate or facing north. Groceries are also higher. We do get cheaper Internet though.

If you are intending on starting a family it is a good place though, far better than Sydney.

watto23 said :

Same for commutes from Belconnen. These would be the 3 places to buy in that price range. The inner suburbs are not likely to be available for the amount you suggested, but look on http://www.allhomes.com.au and do some research.

Belconnen is no better than Gungahlin, in fact probably worse, depending which part of Belconnen. The traffic jams start in the west and wind their way all the way to past Civic for my son, and he is an earlier starter.

The lesson in all this is, is this is just the beginning. The bad town planning with limited winding main roads and the dependency on cars for long commutes has been a recipe for the same traffic snarls the world over.

The crazy thinking of people who have become hooked on cars is that this is somehow temporary and/or is someone else’s fault and will somehow get better.

It won’t.

Do something now about public transport or suffer the consequences.

Thank you for the responses. I and my wife are glued to these responses as we don’t know anybody in Canberra and would appreciate as much info as possible.

This Saturday I came to Canberra and looked at few properties in Bonner, Ngunnawal, and also in Macgregor. We were surprised to see that prices in Macgregor for 3 bed room house in new condition were around 400K, whereas in Bonner similar properties were around 460K.

Real estate agent told us that Macgregor, especially new Macgregor is like St Marys in Sydney and Bonner is like Strathfield in Sydney. Is that right? Is new Macgregor not a good area to live?

Please also suggest is it better to buy a new house in Macgregor or an old house in Ngunnawal?

Should I wait one more year and get my citizenship and then move to Canberra?

regards

Madam Cholet said :

vintage123 said :

….and the commute is better but not by that much…..

Wow. Where are you communting from/to? I come into the City from Calwell every day – three days in a car and 2 days on a bus. My trip even on the bus is only 35 minutes. When I use the car I’m leaving my son at school at nine and walking into my office at 9.30. That to me is quite a bit different from 90 minutes one way.

To the OP…if you don’t want to spend time commuting I would not go far North. If you look at Allhomes you will find a reasonable amount of houses/townhouses (not necessarily new), that will fit in your price bracket…but it is of course about adjusting your expectations, especially if you want to move cities without a job. Renting will not be easy if you have no work to speak of, and buying I would hazard a guess would put you in a similar boat.

I think you have the right take on Canberra. But I would say that as I detest Sydney (having lived there for 10 years).

I was basing the morning drive from gungahlin to the airport which now takes my friends over an hour. On the 460k budget including expenses I would think the OP will be either way north, East or way south. Same old story limited budget, backyard expectations and don’t want to commute. If they move to banks it will take ages, if they move to Dunlop it will too. They could land rent a place at moncreif however the commute to city is 45 mins and to the airport it’s an hour. Was just saying I don’t think its the 5 minute cheap housing solution people think it is.

I can say that good Oracle DBA’s are hard to find. The company I work for was looking for them recently and didn’t find too many. There will be jobs in Canberra for that skill set. The real issue for you is you will need to be a citizen in order to get a security clearance. Pretty much all jobs in Canberra in IT require clearances, because the clients are mostly government. Now I have no idea on your nationality, but I do know of an Indian immigrant who got their clearance, within a few months of being a citizen.

I’d suggest any move shouldn’t be made lightly so by the time you get your citizenship, you’ll possibly be ready to move. Also Gungahlin is the newest part of Canberra. The houses are typically more crammed in with smaller yards. There is a lot of traffic issues with the area, but it does have the NBN and at this stage is the first area to get light rail in 2019. That said my commutes from Tuggeranong are often as quick or quicker because we don’t have the traffic congestion. Same for commutes from Belconnen. These would be the 3 places to buy in that price range. The inner suburbs are not likely to be available for the amount you suggested, but look on http://www.allhomes.com.au and do some research.

vintage123 said :

….and the commute is better but not by that much…..

Wow. Where are you communting from/to? I come into the City from Calwell every day – three days in a car and 2 days on a bus. My trip even on the bus is only 35 minutes. When I use the car I’m leaving my son at school at nine and walking into my office at 9.30. That to me is quite a bit different from 90 minutes one way.

To the OP…if you don’t want to spend time commuting I would not go far North. If you look at Allhomes you will find a reasonable amount of houses/townhouses (not necessarily new), that will fit in your price bracket…but it is of course about adjusting your expectations, especially if you want to move cities without a job. Renting will not be easy if you have no work to speak of, and buying I would hazard a guess would put you in a similar boat.

I think you have the right take on Canberra. But I would say that as I detest Sydney (having lived there for 10 years).

Not sure about Gungahlin, however “New” Macgregor in Belconnen is relatively new, has all amenities nearby and might not be as terrible to commute into Civic of a morning.

I would stay in Sydney. Jobs are scarce in canberra at the moment, houses are more expensive than your budget and the commute is better but not by that much. Yes it’s more relaxed here and there are some better services such as education and health but it’s probably not the fantasy land you think it is.