SIEVX memorial looks as if it will go ahead.

Thumper 24 July 2007 45

IBN News is reporting that the controversial SIEVX memorial is going to go ahead on the shores of lake burley griffin.

Frankly I think this is wrong although it is only a temporary structure.

Yes it was a tragedy. Lots of people died, this is not good. But to somehow twist this into an anti Howard, anti Australian handwringing leftist black armband ideal is not right.

It will open at Weston Park in Yarralumla on September 2.

Supporters of the memorial say their long-term goal is to create a permanent structure.

I hope not.


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45 Responses to SIEVX memorial looks as if it will go ahead.
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sepi sepi 2:13 pm 25 Aug 07

Today’s Age has a relevant link about the huge cost of offshore refugee processing (500 thousand per refugee!).

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/solution-branded-a-costly-flop/2007/08/24/1187462524633.html

Pandy Pandy 8:59 pm 26 Jul 07

Today I had a Vietnamese taxi driver take me home.

He has been here 13 years (well he was a bit hard to uderstand). He said, you have to live somewhere, save and buy a house and raise your kids. He is happy to be an Australian because we are free, the government is not corrupt, no one shots you for thinking the wrong way, the medical system is fair.

He said he has been back a few times to Vietnam but could not live there under the “Russian” government.

I asked him were there not a lot of western companies going there to set-up businesses? He replied that yes there were but they usually had to deal with lots of corruption and often gave up aftera year or so leaving many out of work.

Makes you wonder if the Tampa reffos had come to Asutralia, would they had not made a useful contribution to the economy?

BTW I hate que jumpers

caf caf 5:16 pm 26 Jul 07

Indonesia not accepting refugees absolutely makes a very real difference – it means that settling there is not an option!

VicePope VicePope 3:47 pm 26 Jul 07

Ralph – for most people there are no legitimate ways of coming here. A few thousand get picked up from the camps that hold millions. We cherry pick from that lot.
Maelinar – I don’t know what colour these people were and I know of nothing to stop people of any colour claiming asylum. If the SIEVX people included Afghans and Iraqis, there may have been some as “white” as, say, the PM. Colour is immaterial, and the only issue is whether a person wants to make a claim that he or she falls into the category (helpfully quoted by Caf). The convention is a concrete expression of human decency and a recognition of respect for the dignity of the individual. With that said, there may be some room for tweaking it to deal better with the changing nature of refugees.

Indonesia as a non-party does not have a convention obligation to refugees (although it presumably provides support as a matter of discretion and custom).

Ralph Ralph 4:06 pm 25 Jul 07

This country is not an international doormat. If people want to come here there are legitimate means of doing so.

We don’t have to accept any international riff raff wanting to shack up here, and nor should we.

Funny most of the EU countries are now shutting down their humanitarian migration programs. Ask yourself why that is? If I need to spell it out to you then you really are living in some sort of utopian fantasy world.

Maelinar Maelinar 3:57 pm 25 Jul 07

and VicePope, if they had family here, they should have applied for a visa like all the white people have to do.

My comment is intentionally racist. Dumb white people… following rules and things…

Maelinar Maelinar 3:56 pm 25 Jul 07

Those posts, while nice, do not answer Bonfire’s question. It does not matter if a nation ‘accepts’, ‘recognises’ or otherwise disregards all knowledge of refugees, they CEASED being refugees the moment they LEFT A COUNTRY OTHER THAN THEIR ORIGINAL ONE, and continued on their merry way to Australia.

From my own knowledge of Indonesia, they could have landed pretty much anywhere and set up a home.

Thumper Thumper 3:21 pm 25 Jul 07

Which, by definition, pretty much means anyone who is breathing.

caf caf 3:17 pm 25 Jul 07

Indonesia isn’t one of the signatories of the convention on the status of refugees (ie, they don’t acccept refugees). Incidentally the definition of a refugee according to the Convention is:

person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events,is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it..

sepi sepi 3:01 pm 25 Jul 07

Kramer I was referring to comment on the previous SIEVX thread, which I did find extremely offensive and quite sick.

Kramer Kramer 1:48 pm 25 Jul 07

I don’t think consideration and respect for people are necessarily traits of an “advanced Western-style country”. Look at the US, and their blatent disregard for human rights.

VicePope VicePope 1:32 pm 25 Jul 07

Bonfire – At least some needed to come because they had, or thought they had, family here. Some may have expected to be treated with consideration and respect given that we are supposed to be an advanced Western-style country. At best, we ignored them for too long and at worst ……

Kramer Kramer 12:48 pm 25 Jul 07

In these instances I wish this site was more heavily moderated.

Myself and the other admins cruise the site regularly – the only things we edit or delete are defamatory or highly offesive comments. Nothing mentioned thus far in this thread contravenes our policy. Sure some comments may have hurt a few people’s feelings, but that’s the usual effect when you have a free and open debate. What would you prefer? Editorial review of every comment before it is posted, like the big news sites? and only the comments fitting their political alignment are published?

We are here as the real voice of Canberrans for a free and open debate on the issues relevant to us. Remember the RiotACT golden rule… You have the right of reply.

bonfire bonfire 11:36 am 25 Jul 07

they were not refugees.

they were illegal immigrants.

if they were refugees, why didnt they stay in indonesia ? nice place, cheap, pleasant weather, same cultural hygiene/dietary requirements etc.

why did they NEED to come to australia ?

Thumper Thumper 7:55 am 25 Jul 07

Ah Shauno, I was taking the mickey with that comment.

Cheers.

shauno shauno 7:38 am 25 Jul 07

“Oh come on Caf, everyone knows that the reason that Howard won all those elections was because of issues such as the Tampa, the SIEVX, 9/11, terrorism, etc.

Not the fact that the opposition had no policies and no idea.”

Um I’m not sure if that’s right. I along with a lot of people I know didn’t take any notice of that emotional left wing bullshit and sensationalism.
It was entirely due to silly ALP policies and lack there of. Same can be said for this coming election I’ve seen nothing of note to want me to vote for the ALP. My feeling is that if Howard gets kicked out it will be because people want a change that’s all and because Howard should be doing more.

Oh and I cant be blamed for anything because I didn’t actually vote last time I was stuck in the middle of no where in West Africa at the time.

Meconium Meconium 11:56 pm 24 Jul 07

It’ll end up just being another memorial-cum-work of art which few remember the significance of. Kids will probably play on it, hopping from log to log. I’m not against having a memorial there – it’s not like they’re destroying native bushland or anything – and if it gives some bleeding heart peace of mind then fine, install the damn memorial.

Apart from the question of “whether the memorial should exist”, which is by now moot, I think that at least the designs on the poles are fairly attractive. It’s been an excellent medium for the schoolkids to experiment with, and some of the poles are really well-drawn (such as a couple of memorable ones of the Taj Mahal). It’s here and it doesn’t bother me – perhaps it shouldn’t be in Canberra, but so what if it is.

sepi sepi 11:21 pm 24 Jul 07

I understaood that some of the relatives of the deceased children lived in Canberra.

Anyway – why not Canberra. I’m not opposed to it.
The vile comments the last thread about SIEVX attracted turned me off this site, and this thread is shaping up to be just as depressing.

In these instances I wish this site was more heavily moderated.

I too think the SIEVX event was very suspicious.
I hope anyone who could have done something and did not has seen the error of their ways.

Kramer Kramer 10:09 pm 24 Jul 07

OK, so we’ve justified that this ‘disaster’ warrants a memorial. So why Canberra? Why the shores of LBG? Why Weston Park? Isn’t Weston Park a play area for kiddies, and not a quiet place for reflecting the tragedy and great loss of life (unless the memorial will be suitable for kiddies to safely play on).

VicePope VicePope 8:39 pm 24 Jul 07

Ralph. There isn’t a queue. There are millions of refugees around the world and Oz takes a few thousand of the best qualified ones every year. Most just rot in crummy camps, unable to return home. Some, more savvy and better connected, arrive by plane as “students” or “tourists” and then claim asylum – they get treated better than the boat arrivals. The process is chaotic, and I cannot blame people who try to get through it faster by taking some initiative. It is not, and never has been, a crime to be a refugee or to claim asylum.

Scumdorg et al. Grow up. These were humans, who had families and friends and hopes. One family at least already had a husband and father here. They were trying to make the best lives for their families, and the only wrong they did was to think we might believe the second verse of the national anthem (“for those who’ve come across the seas/we’ve boundless plains to share) when it’s manifest that we are a pack of self-indulgent hypocrites.

I also recommend the Marr/Wilkinson book and, in fact, reading the whole of the transcript and the submissions of the Certain Maritime Incident committee. There is a smell about the thing, and its one that cannot be explained away.

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