21 March 2013

Simon Crean calling for a spill. AND IT'S OFF

| johnboy
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simon crean

Simon Crean’s just on the tv right now calling for a spill and asking Kevin Rudd to stand as leader.

So there’s definitely a thing on now.

Where the numbers lie remains to be seen.

Remember that a change of leadership will probably bring on an election and certainly massive ministerial changes so all our public service friends need to have their briefs up to date.

UPDATE 21/03/13 13:47: thatsnotme had this to add:

Grabbed this screenshot from the ABC re the leadership spill Apparently the stakes are even higher than simply leadership of the ALP.

screenshot

UPDATE 21/03/13 14:02: Leadership vote just announced by the PM for 16:30 this afternoon.

UPDATE 21/03/13 14:26: No confidence motion underway which could get hairy. Meanwhile CanMeme has come up with this:

canmeme

Also the BBC has a good piece on leadership challenges in Australia:

After eight years as prime minister, Hawke himself was “rolled,” to use another Australianism (that politics here has its own vocabulary of leadership challenges is in itself instructive).

UPDATE 21/03/13 14:50: No Confidence motion kept off the floor but probably would have failed based on the voting on suspending standing orders.

UPDATE 21/03/13 16:17: It has been pointed out that if Rudd gets up and is forced into an early election the Canberra Liberals won’t have much time to figure out their senate preselection war.

UPDATE 21/03/13 16:20: Rudd says he won’t stand for the leadership.

UPDATE 21/03/13 16:46: It’s over and off. PM returned unanimously an unopposed.

UPDATE 21/03/13 17:09: One practical outcome is the ACT can now await a new Minister for Territories.

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I heard some deadpan comedy genius (whom I can’t credit unfortunately) on ABC New Radio this afternoon. He said that we had become used to political coups being organised by faceless men. Now it appears that with with a high profile guy like Crean having organised a coup with no challenger and no visible supporters, he has produced the first coup by a manless face. I swear I chortled all the way home. 🙂

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

My point was, you cannot use the line: well such and such has a degree so that means they are smart.

No-one ever made that argument.

The point is that someone who wins a scholarship to study at Oxford, and obtains a master’s degree from that university, clearly isn’t a “halfwit”.

JimCharles said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Thumper said :

All you really need is wealth to get a degree

Sorry?

I was an ASOC4 with three kids and a wife at home not working while buying a house when I did my two degrees. Pretty much well below the poverty line. Oh, and I was working full time at the the time I was studying.

I’m sensing some I don’t have a degree envy….

Not my point at all. Of course there are loads of smart people with degrees. My point was, you cannot use the line: well such and such has a degree so that means they are smart.

And also…if you have wealth already, it’s a darn sight easier to get a degree when you don’t have to go out and work at the same time, or support a family.
If everybody had the same opportunity, a lot more people would have degrees and they wouldn’t be used as an example of how one person is better than another.

Yeah its also easier to get a degree if you’re smarter than other people or have a better work ethic. If only the lazy and unintelligent had the same opportunities huh?

In this country everyone has an opportunity to get a government subsidised tertiary education which they only have to pay anything towards once they start earning an income.

If you want a degree and are smart and dedicated enough then you can get one. If you choose or prioritise other things then that’s your own decision.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:25 pm 24 Mar 13

JimCharles said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Thumper said :

All you really need is wealth to get a degree

Sorry?

I was an ASOC4 with three kids and a wife at home not working while buying a house when I did my two degrees. Pretty much well below the poverty line. Oh, and I was working full time at the the time I was studying.

I’m sensing some I don’t have a degree envy….

Not my point at all. Of course there are loads of smart people with degrees. My point was, you cannot use the line: well such and such has a degree so that means they are smart.

And also…if you have wealth already, it’s a darn sight easier to get a degree when you don’t have to go out and work at the same time, or support a family.
If everybody had the same opportunity, a lot more people would have degrees and they wouldn’t be used as an example of how one person is better than another.

Exactly the point I was getting at. I apologise for being unclear.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:23 pm 24 Mar 13

chewy14 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

Nope, nor do I believe in a magical being who created everything and sent a zombie man to save us.
All you really need is wealth to get a degree but it takes a certain type of special to not put science first.

Can you show me where I name called anyone?

When you called a clearly intelligent individual a ‘halfwit’. Or perhaps it was the ‘bigot’ part? But all these are verified facts right and not simply your opinion right?

Maybe a bit of that book learnin is in order.

As I already said 3553355 times, I only deal in facts. If its my opinion I will say at the start or end of the post IMO.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Thumper said :

All you really need is wealth to get a degree

Sorry?

I was an ASOC4 with three kids and a wife at home not working while buying a house when I did my two degrees. Pretty much well below the poverty line. Oh, and I was working full time at the the time I was studying.

I’m sensing some I don’t have a degree envy….

Not my point at all. Of course there are loads of smart people with degrees. My point was, you cannot use the line: well such and such has a degree so that means they are smart.

And also…if you have wealth already, it’s a darn sight easier to get a degree when you don’t have to go out and work at the same time, or support a family.
If everybody had the same opportunity, a lot more people would have degrees and they wouldn’t be used as an example of how one person is better than another.

milkman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Can you show me where I name called anyone?

Post 93.

Please ask for a screenshot. Please ask for a screenshot. Please ask for a screenshot.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:08 am 24 Mar 13

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Nope, nor do I believe in a magical being who created everything and sent a zombie man to save us.
All you really need is wealth to get a degree but it takes a certain type of special to not put science first.

You do know that beliefs and scientifically proven facts aren’t actually the same thing, don’t you? However, if you have “facts” or “science” which prove that God doesn’t exist, I’d love to hear the details.

As for “all you need is wealth to get a degree” from Oxford…sounds like a scientifically provable case of sour grapes to me. Besides, Abbott was a Rhodes scholar.

Science doesn’t really work that way either. The one making the outlandish claims need to provide evidence.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd11:06 am 24 Mar 13

Thumper said :

All you really need is wealth to get a degree

Sorry?

I was an ASOC4 with three kids and a wife at home not working while buying a house when I did my two degrees. Pretty much well below the poverty line. Oh, and I was working full time at the the time I was studying.

I’m sensing some I don’t have a degree envy….

Not my point at all. Of course there are loads of smart people with degrees. My point was, you cannot use the line: well such and such has a degree so that means they are smart.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Nope, nor do I believe in a magical being who created everything and sent a zombie man to save us.
All you really need is wealth to get a degree but it takes a certain type of special to not put science first.

You do know that beliefs and scientifically proven facts aren’t actually the same thing, don’t you? However, if you have “facts” or “science” which prove that God doesn’t exist, I’d love to hear the details.

As for “all you need is wealth to get a degree” from Oxford…sounds like a scientifically provable case of sour grapes to me. Besides, Abbott was a Rhodes scholar.

All you really need is wealth to get a degree

Sorry?

I was an ASOC4 with three kids and a wife at home not working while buying a house when I did my two degrees. Pretty much well below the poverty line. Oh, and I was working full time at the the time I was studying.

I’m sensing some I don’t have a degree envy….

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Can you show me where I name called anyone?

Post 93.

justin heywood1:14 pm 23 Mar 13

FioBla said :

Labor has done the impossible:

Australia/RiotACT are rallying around the cyclist.

Red-light running road scholar…

I haven’t seen one post gushing about Abbott. But Gillard’s stature as PM is now so low that many in her own party have considered bringing back Rudd, himself a proven failure as PM.

I think it’s more accurate to say that, for many, Abbott may be preferable to either of them.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd12:50 pm 23 Mar 13

milkman said :

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

+1. “I deal in facts” then a ridiculous personal attack?

Care to explain how stating a fact is considered a ridiculous personal attack in your mind?

HiddenDragon said :

FioBla said :

Labor has done the impossible:

Australia/RiotACT are rallying around the cyclist.

Red-light running road scholar…

Yes, it’s a truly amazing achievement – imagine what else they can do between now and election day. Steven Bradbury is a luckless klutz compared to Abbott.

Last night I started using my turn indicators. And even parked between the lines!

Thanks, federal politicians!

IMO Crean is an bloody idiot particularly as Rudd realised he didn’t have the numbers and attempted to stop him.The sensible strategy would’ve been to wait a couple of months prior to the election to gauge voter sentiment which would have more likely swayed Labor to depose Gillard and reinstate Rudd regardless of the contempt many have for him.Crean should’ve known better which just goes to show age and experience doesn’t guarantee wisdom.There’s little doubt in anyone’s mind that this has pretty much ensured that Labor will be decimated come September.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

Nope, nor do I believe in a magical being who created everything and sent a zombie man to save us.
All you really need is wealth to get a degree but it takes a certain type of special to not put science first.

Can you show me where I name called anyone?

When you called a clearly intelligent individual a ‘halfwit’. Or perhaps it was the ‘bigot’ part? But all these are verified facts right and not simply your opinion right?

Maybe a bit of that book learnin is in order.

HiddenDragon11:28 am 23 Mar 13

FioBla said :

Labor has done the impossible:

Australia/RiotACT are rallying around the cyclist.

Red-light running road scholar…

Yes, it’s a truly amazing achievement – imagine what else they can do between now and election day. Steven Bradbury is a luckless klutz compared to Abbott.

Labor has done the impossible:

Australia/RiotACT are rallying around the cyclist.

Red-light running road scholar…

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd8:24 am 23 Mar 13

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

Nope, nor do I believe in a magical being who created everything and sent a zombie man to save us.
All you really need is wealth to get a degree but it takes a certain type of special to not put science first.

Can you show me where I name called anyone?

2604 said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

+1. “I deal in facts” then a ridiculous personal attack?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Actually all you do is name-call.

I also note that your “halfwit bigot” has a master’s degree from Oxford. Do you?

Rudd was definitely up to his eyeballs in yesterday’s mess. Some of my colleagues were at the Hyatt yesterday, and watched Rudd (in a tracksuit) scuttling about with phones glued to each ear, his minders doing the same, in a high state of excitement.

justin heywood said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

‘ripped the working man to pieces’ ?

Ridiculous hyperbole. And apparently, the voters ARE willing to elect Abbott, which if nothing else is a sign of how low Labor’s stocks are.

Currently we are led by an ex-union lawyer with a fairly dodgy past, fighting off a challenge by an ex-PM who was so bad his own party rolled him during his first term.

The alternative is a party led by a former Rhodes scholar, who may have punched a wall during his student days, and will likely (hopefully) soon be replaced by another Rhodes scholar, who, unlike almost all others on the hill, had a successful career before politics.

I don’t think the sky will fall if the Liberals get in.

Well with your obvious talents for self-delusion, I’m not surprised you see things that way. Sounds like a dream match: In the red corner: ex-union lawyer with dodgy past versus, in the blue corner, the crown favourite: Rhodes Scholar. Ridiculous hyperbole indeed.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd2:44 pm 22 Mar 13

Mysteryman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Scary scary times. First time I’m acfually going to vote, and it will be for labour.

Everything is scary when you don’t bother looking for the facts. It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve never voted, but I do find it quite comforting.

All I do is deal in facts.

Having a halfwit bigot whose only concern is pleasing his magic sky fairy, in charge of the elected party running the country is incredibly frightening to me.

Madam Cholet12:46 pm 22 Mar 13

I would not be at all surprised if she does eventually stand down – prior to the election. If the poll ratings get even worse it’s certain destruction, and even though they may not be able to counter a defeat at this stage, surely they should try to act to try and hang on to some of the furniture at least?

No doubt there will be a bounce in the polls because she has stared down another badly organised revolt. All those women out there who get excited when she does her Godzilla impression will be responding in droves to surveys on MammaMia, but it will go the way of all the Labor results eventually, which is down.

Holden Caulfield12:17 pm 22 Mar 13

Madam Cholet said :

I don’t think that Rudd cares if Labor gets obliterated at the election whatever he says. He might pass himself off as the new messiah then. He’s young enough to do another 10 years in opposition if needs be.

You’re right. But while the public seems to think Kevin is better than Julia, one fact seems pretty clear and that is caucus pretty much hates him.

Those that say they support Rudd are probably only saying so because they, somehow, think he might keep them in government. After the election I expect the few remaining ALP pollies to relish the freedom of opposition by despising Rudd with relative impunity.

I can’t see Rudd wanting to be opposition leader again, although he might enjoy the chance to rip into Abbott I suppose.

Opposition for the ALP is likely to be at least two terms and maybe more; will Rudd really want that? Better to take the approach that served him well last time, put a lamb to the slaughter and then strike when things are on the improve.

Election night, whenever it is, will be a very dark place for the ALP. There’ll barely be a skerrick of light at the end of a very long tunnel. The numbers they have left in parliament will shock them to the core I expect.

Their only hope of a quick return is that the Libs in government follow the ALP play book of self-destruction, which given the results of a few conservative state governments around the country may be a hope worth clinging to.

johnboy said :

I’m not sure this isn’t Simon Crean’s way to get to the backbench where he can snipe freely.

That or get to call the shots in the party.

Win win for him to a point.

100k less in his pay packet

Beautiful work Crean, you stood up for the best part of half an hour talking about how you’re a servant of Labor, you’re working to protect Labor and then you totally, stupidly, screwed over Labor.

Well done!

Set up a modern day Burr-Hamilton dual but forgot to load the guns. So everyone ends up looking foolish and spends the next few days clubbing each other.

Diggety said :

Gillard definitely played that well though, she is a tough and tactful politician. Unfortunately she has to waste those talents on keeping herself where she is, and not much else to the detriment of her party.

No she didn’t, she played it terribly.

Caucus forced a spill for 4pm, after they had done so, she then declared a spill for 4:30pm. So she looked like she was playing catch up, was nervous, and not in command.

She should have just spilled straight away, first thing in the morning, and declared that it’s her party, she is in control.

Instead, she declared the exact opposite.

HiddenDragon11:40 am 22 Mar 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

vet111 said :

And that, my friends, is a dish of revenge served cold.

Indeed.

It’s a shame the government couldn’t put their obviously well developed intelligence into running our country sensibly.

It is looking more and more like the intelligence of self-referencing student politicians – idiot savants of internal party machination, but generally clueless about retail politics. They seem to be blinded by their dislike of, and contempt for, Abbott in much the same way that an earlier generation of Labor were by Howard – “surely the Australian people couldn’t vote for that awful/ridiculous (etc. etc.) little man”. If only (for Gillard’s sake) the Australian voting public were as easy to herd and hypnotise as the federal Labor caucus.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Scary scary times. First time I’m acfually going to vote, and it will be for labour.

Everything is scary when you don’t bother looking for the facts. It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve never voted, but I do find it quite comforting.

Yeah. Let’s all take a quiet minute and think about the prospect of Barnaby Joyce becoming the deputy Prime Minister.

I’m sure that will help calm things down.

Well, I assume that’s why Rudd’s not scared about annihilation this election. Abbot is not stupid, a knucklehead certainly but not stupid. Where as Barnaby is in the Bob Katter school of wild-eyed loons.

Two weeks over Xmas while Abbot is on hols will make us forever glad we don’t have a red button.

Madam Cholet said :

I prefer the Rudd revenge theory. I think that is the way he might operate. Crean has longevity, a well known name, a union following etc, but not much of the grey matter to devote to shenanigans. And I think he tries to play a straight game. Unlike Rudd.

I don’t think that Rudd cares if Labor gets obliterated at the election whatever he says. He might pass himself off as the new messiah then. He’s young enough to do another 10 years in opposition if needs be.

Yes but for the revenge theory to be true, Crean would have actually had to lose something of importance and he would have had to be doing secret deals with Rudd who he greatly dislikes which I think is extremely unlikely.

Crean knows the government is going to lose the next election, so really he’s given up five months of ministerial pay by taking one for the Gillard team. Completely irrelevant to him.
The possibility that he could have been deputy prime minister for five months would have been ridiculously low on his priority list.

You’ll notice that Crean has also come out and attacked Rudd for not challenging as well, saying he’s not “a fighter”. Just throwing a few little barbs in there because he organised the whole thing.

Rudd hasn’t really lost anything either, he’s definitely playing a longer game.

Who in their right mind would want to be leading the Labor party at the moment? They are heading for a massive defeat and the leader at the time will be tarred for the rest of their career with defeat by Tony Abbott of all people.

Madam Cholet10:59 am 22 Mar 13

I prefer the Rudd revenge theory. I think that is the way he might operate. Crean has longevity, a well known name, a union following etc, but not much of the grey matter to devote to shenanigans. And I think he tries to play a straight game. Unlike Rudd.

I don’t think that Rudd cares if Labor gets obliterated at the election whatever he says. He might pass himself off as the new messiah then. He’s young enough to do another 10 years in opposition if needs be.

Here_and_Now10:21 am 22 Mar 13

vet111 said :

Here’s my take on this whole debacle (not a noun):

I’m pretty sure “debacle” is a noun. What do you mean?

Holden Caulfield10:13 am 22 Mar 13

JimCharles said :

I think that politicians should be judged on their policies and beliefs, but with Abbott he seems to be hiding that all away and hoping to get the mandate by virtue of just keeping his head down while the other lot destroy themselves. That’s pretty dangerous for people, it could be like turkeys voting for Christmas. Be careful what you wish for.

Zing!

Although, unfortunately, Tony does seem to be slowing getting the message that he needs to sell sunshine and not just thunder storms.

Holden Caulfield10:09 am 22 Mar 13

chewy14 said :

…it was simply about removing the leadership speculation for the election.

I thought that’s what February 2012 was supposed to do?

That said, I think both theories, even though they are opposite, on Crean’s motives could be correct. It’s quite puzzling to understand what he was really trying to do, so I don’t think any theory, no matter how bizarre, can be ruled out!

While Gillard is PM and Rudd is in Parliament the media will ensure there is speculation over the leadership.

vet111 said :

Here’s my take on this whole debacle (not a noun):

Crean helps Gillard roll Rudd. Rudd challenges, Crean is a big part of the reason he’s not successful. Crean says a lot of quite nasty things about Rudd in the press. Rudd sits back and waits…

Labor are up the s*** in the polls. Crean is starting to get a bit nervous – he likes this Minister bizzo, and he’ll be buggered if he has to go back to being in Opposition. He starts asking around about Rudd’s appetite for a change….

Rudd sees an opportunity. He tells Crean he’ll challenge if he’s got the support, and to thank him for his troubles he’ll promote Crean to be his right hand man. Crean gets all excited, and starts rallying the troops. Meanwhile, Rudd rubs his hands together with glee….

Crean sees that the numbers are pretty close. He decides to up the ante and make a public declaration of his support for Rudd, hoping that others will follow his lead. Rudd is encouraging him, telling him they’re going to do it this time. Gillard calls the leadership spill. Rudd rubs his hands together with glee…

Gillard is understandably pissy with Crean, and demotes him. He doesn’t care – he’ll be deputy soon. The numbers are close, but Rudd will get there with his support. Off they go to the caucus room, waiting for their shining leader to sweep in and save the day…

Rudd makes his move. His ultimate objective was achieved – Crean is punished, and as an added bonus he’s managed to get a count, piss Julia off and look like that rarity, an honest politician. He announces he won’t stand because he’s a ‘man of his word’, and you can just imagine the look on Crean’s face.

And that, my friends, is a dish of revenge served cold.

I think it’s almost the polar opposite of that.

History:

Crean helps Gillard roll Rudd.
Crean says lots of nasty things about Rudd.
Rudd starts becoming more popular and gaining supporters.
Crean and Gillard pre-empt Rudd gaining the necessary numbers by calling a leadership spill.
Gillard Beats Rudd.

Fast Forward to the Present.

Rudd starts becoming more popular and gaining supporters.
Crean pre-empts Rudd gaining the necessary numbers by calling for Gillard to have a vote for the leadership. Says that Rudd must challenge.
Gillard calls for a spill
Gillard Wins unopposed and secures the leadership until the election.
Crean goes to the back bench to be reinstated to the front bench most likely in opposition after the election, no big loss for him.

Deja vu anyone? we all got played, it was simply about removing the leadership speculation for the election.

Mysteryman said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Scary scary times. First time I’m acfually going to vote, and it will be for labour.

Everything is scary when you don’t bother looking for the facts. It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve never voted, but I do find it quite comforting.

Yeah. Let’s all take a quiet minute and think about the prospect of Barnaby Joyce becoming the deputy Prime Minister.

I’m sure that will help calm things down.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Scary scary times. First time I’m acfually going to vote, and it will be for labour.

Everything is scary when you don’t bother looking for the facts. It doesn’t surprise me that you’ve never voted, but I do find it quite comforting.

thebrownstreak699:22 am 22 Mar 13

vet111 said :

And that, my friends, is a dish of revenge served cold.

Indeed.

It’s a shame the government couldn’t put their obviously well developed intelligence into running our country sensibly.

Here’s my take on this whole debacle (not a noun):

Crean helps Gillard roll Rudd. Rudd challenges, Crean is a big part of the reason he’s not successful. Crean says a lot of quite nasty things about Rudd in the press. Rudd sits back and waits…

Labor are up the s*** in the polls. Crean is starting to get a bit nervous – he likes this Minister bizzo, and he’ll be buggered if he has to go back to being in Opposition. He starts asking around about Rudd’s appetite for a change….

Rudd sees an opportunity. He tells Crean he’ll challenge if he’s got the support, and to thank him for his troubles he’ll promote Crean to be his right hand man. Crean gets all excited, and starts rallying the troops. Meanwhile, Rudd rubs his hands together with glee….

Crean sees that the numbers are pretty close. He decides to up the ante and make a public declaration of his support for Rudd, hoping that others will follow his lead. Rudd is encouraging him, telling him they’re going to do it this time. Gillard calls the leadership spill. Rudd rubs his hands together with glee…

Gillard is understandably pissy with Crean, and demotes him. He doesn’t care – he’ll be deputy soon. The numbers are close, but Rudd will get there with his support. Off they go to the caucus room, waiting for their shining leader to sweep in and save the day…

Rudd makes his move. His ultimate objective was achieved – Crean is punished, and as an added bonus he’s managed to get a count, piss Julia off and look like that rarity, an honest politician. He announces he won’t stand because he’s a ‘man of his word’, and you can just imagine the look on Crean’s face.

And that, my friends, is a dish of revenge served cold.

Hawke and Keating must be beating their heads against a wall watching the performance of these numpties as they seriously trash the Labor brand.

And the frightening thing is, they still have another five months to really ensure that the ALP is completely decimated.

They might as well give Abbott the keys to the lodge now.

Well after yesterday’s farce Rudd is finished and Labor is so damaged that come September they will be history for decades to come unless the Lib’s implode as well.It’s clear that bloody minded personal ambition and belief has the potential to destroy a party.

justin heywood said :

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

‘ripped the working man to pieces’ ?

Ridiculous hyperbole. And apparently, the voters ARE willing to elect Abbott, which if nothing else is a sign of how low Labor’s stocks are.

Currently we are led by an ex-union lawyer with a fairly dodgy past, fighting off a challenge by an ex-PM who was so bad his own party rolled him during his first term.

The alternative is a party led by a former Rhodes scholar, who may have punched a wall during his student days, and will likely (hopefully) soon be replaced by another Rhodes scholar, who, unlike almost all others on the hill, had a successful career before politics.

I don’t think the sky will fall if the Liberals get in.

That’s pretty much what i said wasn’t it ?
The UK cabinet is full of Eton students with degrees in all sorts of useless rubbish, it doesn’t mean they could run a newsagents or know the price of a bottle of milk….their Chancellor has never had a proper job in his life and lives off a tax-free trust fund !
Abbott seems to have been a trainee priest, worked “in journalism”, worked at a concrete plant, then spent a year working at some monarchist organisation. Rather than enjoying a successful career, that seems to me that he’s never known what he wanted to do, or discovered what he was good at?

The fact that he recently spent time in the UK engaging with these Tories should be pretty worrying for any Aussies….the mess that place is in beggars belief.
I think that politicians should be judged on their policies and beliefs, but with Abbott he seems to be hiding that all away and hoping to get the mandate by virtue of just keeping his head down while the other lot destroy themselves. That’s pretty dangerous for people, it could be like turkeys voting for Christmas. Be careful what you wish for.

HiddenDragon10:19 pm 21 Mar 13

Tudor history, in the breathless, histrionic tones of Dimbleby, Starkey et.al. can be quite entertaining. Re-enacted in the Australian federal parliament, in a grating, ersatz-ocker accent, it is something which I, and, apparently, about 55% of the voting public, can do without.

“I am Richard II, know ye not that”.

“Bill Shorten, after the Budget. Anyone care for a bet?”

Too early. Bill doesn’t want to be Leader of the Opposition. He wants to be PM at some stage and is smart enough to know that would be highly unlikely at the next election.

poetix said :

Bill Shorten, after the Budget. Anyone care for a bet?

I think it’s settled until the election. Maybe Shorten as opposition leader after September though …

justin heywood9:13 pm 21 Mar 13

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

‘ripped the working man to pieces’ ?

Ridiculous hyperbole. And apparently, the voters ARE willing to elect Abbott, which if nothing else is a sign of how low Labor’s stocks are.

Currently we are led by an ex-union lawyer with a fairly dodgy past, fighting off a challenge by an ex-PM who was so bad his own party rolled him during his first term.

The alternative is a party led by a former Rhodes scholar, who may have punched a wall during his student days, and will likely (hopefully) soon be replaced by another Rhodes scholar, who, unlike almost all others on the hill, had a successful career before politics.

I don’t think the sky will fall if the Liberals get in.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd8:53 pm 21 Mar 13

JimCharles said :

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Scary scary times. First time I’m acfually going to vote, and it will be for labour.

Bill Shorten, after the Budget. Anyone care for a bet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_2013#Election_period

Does this mean the lib’s got a whole swing of air time now?

Jivrashia said :

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.
.

Just what they were saying about Cameron in Britain…very similar to Abbott, little or no policy detail publicised, he just sat back and let the Government hang itself, then got elected by default.
Then turned round with his rich mates and ripped the working man to pieces.

Deref said :

Mysteryman said :

harvyk1 said :

I’m not quite ready to say that we’ve seen the end of Rudd on this one. He used some pretty deliberate words prior to going into the meeting.

I agree. If you were in his position, would you want to be handed a crumbling government? If I was in his shoes I’d rather until after the election.

He will. Then he’ll be back in the leadership and, hopefully, will defeat the Mad Monk at the next election.

The gods help us until then.

He didn’t do too brilliantly last time he was PM. I doubt he’ll do any better if there’s a second time. Labor deserve to sit the opposition benches for a term or two.

This wasn’t about the leadership of the Labor party. I think Crean just wanted to up the ante in his game of “Simon Says” 🙂

Roll on s### governance!

Gillard definitely played that well though, she is a tough and tactful politician. Unfortunately she has to waste those talents on keeping herself where she is, and not much else to the detriment of her party.

Ah well, minority government with the Greens was always gonna be a killer.

Mysteryman said :

harvyk1 said :

I’m not quite ready to say that we’ve seen the end of Rudd on this one. He used some pretty deliberate words prior to going into the meeting.

I agree. If you were in his position, would you want to be handed a crumbling government? If I was in his shoes I’d rather until after the election.

He will. Then he’ll be back in the leadership and, hopefully, will defeat the Mad Monk at the next election.

The gods help us until then.

Masquara said :

johnboy said :

All over and nothing happened!

Nothing much in the room – but today played right into Gillard’s hands politically – no-one has noticed that Labor’s media bill has been kyboshed. That was the biggest liability she had on her hands today.

It won’t take long til someone picks up on it

milkman said :

johnboy said :

All over and nothing happened!

Makes you wonder WTF Labor are up to. Today has been a debacle.

A massive dummy spitting tanty that added zero value to the Labor brand.

harvyk1 said :

I’m not quite ready to say that we’ve seen the end of Rudd on this one. He used some pretty deliberate words prior to going into the meeting.

I agree. If you were in his position, would you want to be handed a crumbling government? If I was in his shoes I’d rather until after the election.

johnboy said :

All over and nothing happened!

Nothing much in the room – but today played right into Gillard’s hands politically – no-one has noticed that Labor’s media bill has been kyboshed. That was the biggest liability she had on her hands today.

johnboy said :

All over and nothing happened!

Makes you wonder WTF Labor are up to. Today has been a debacle.

Can’t see this doing any good for Labours long term prospects. A party divided, with massive trust issues, it’s no wonder their ratings are through the floor. One must wonder if Kevin meant for this to happen all along, he comes off looking like the only honest politician in Canberra and Julia is headed for the scrap heap.

Seems the only real losers here are the Australian people.

Holden Caulfield4:39 pm 21 Mar 13

Madam Cholet said :

Oh dear. Julia will now have to be tapped on the shoulder and stand aside. Sounds like they want Kevin, so they’ll have to beg him.

No. I think if there was an “overwhelming majority” of “they” then Julia would have been tapped on the shoulder, much the same as Rudd was in 2010, allowing Rudd to stand for leader unopposed.

Rudd didn’t stand because he didn’t have the numbers.

All over and nothing happened!

I’m not quite ready to say that we’ve seen the end of Rudd on this one. He used some pretty deliberate words prior to going into the meeting.

PantsMan said :

johnboy said :

Confidence motion killed off.

But she lost a simple majority vote on her leadership on the floor of the House!

If you look at all past voting patterns, the independents always vote to allow discussion/a vote on something substantial. So they have just stuck to their traditional voting, it wasnt a confidence vote but a vote on whether to have a confidence vote. So the cross benchers may well have voted to allow the vote, but voted against that motion.

Even if JG wins, you can bet that TA will put forward a no confidence motion tomorrow to test this out again

If someone calls an election now, what happens to the budget…

Madam Cholet4:28 pm 21 Mar 13

Oh dear. Julia will now have to be tapped on the shoulder and stand aside. Sounds like they want Kevin, so they’ll have to beg him.

Rudd says he won’t stand.

Wonder who’ll nominate?

bundah said :

I’ve got $100 on Rudd by a nose!

Damn i spoke too soon!

Holden Caulfield4:20 pm 21 Mar 13

Rudd just announced that he will not stand.

I’ve got $100 on Rudd by a nose!

Mysteryman said :

nsn said :

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

Did you read the main article? A Cabinet Minister has called for a leadership spill, and declared his support for Rudd, and you ‘wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon’?

I did. I also knew that one of two things had to happen for any *actual* spill to take place – a petition that met quota, or the PM herself calling a spill. At the time I commented, neither of those things was on the table.

But thanks for your well thought out reply.

The snark wasn’t really intended. Sorry.

Masquara said :

p1 said :

He He, SBS, in their excitement, have left their feed live….

Thanks for the tip! Apparently Katter is with Tony Abbott according to someone overheard on the live feed!

How come all the tecchies are such hotties? : )

p1 said :

He He, SBS, in their excitement, have left their feed live….

Thanks for the tip! Apparently Katter is with Tony Abbott according to someone overheard on the live feed!

Holden Caulfield3:27 pm 21 Mar 13

PantsMan said :

johnboy said :

Confidence motion killed off.

But she lost a simple majority vote on her leadership on the floor of the House!

He needs to get to 76, a total majority of the house. The nays could have been one and it still wouldn’t have mattered if he could only get 73 ayes.

Madam Cholet3:25 pm 21 Mar 13

Creans office have confirmed he has been sacked from his ministry.

The indies sided with the opposition on the motion of no confidence. Things will get interesting with them if Kevin wins. It was only Slipper and Thompson who saved her. Maybe Crean knows that Rudd won’t actually stand. Oh who knows!!

Can we have an RA poll before the real vote gets underway? And if Rudd gets back in I might register my dog as a candidate in the election as I think he’s have a good chance.

johnboy said :

Confidence motion killed off.

But she lost a simple majority vote on her leadership on the floor of the House!

neanderthalsis3:14 pm 21 Mar 13

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway decent government, who were willing to stick to their guns instead of folding every time the minutest amount of pressure is put on them and their policies either.

Indeed. We constantly get the “blame the media” line thrown at us, but the reality is that they are just reacting to the snippets of information they get fed by those who stroll the corridors of power. Yes we deserve better media, more than the “he said she said” regurgitation of media releases or rumours stemming from a quiet drink with a back-benchers acting assistant deputy media advisor. Successive governments are to blame for creating the media beast which we all despise because they are the ones feeding the beast.

Does it get any better or more hysterical than this? My memory is not what it used to be but has Labor been in greater disarray than with this current crop? The voters are likely to crucify them come the next election!

johnboy said :

Jim Jones said :

They would be excited. They created the leadership spill in the first place.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

You can hardly blame the media for shambolic policy development.

Most of it hasn’t been much worse than previous gummints.

Media regulation was a notable exception, and by god didn’t News Ltd squeal about that. ‘Death of Free Speech’ … ‘THEY’RE ALL NAZIS’. The most hysterical crap they’ve come up with to date.

Regardless, the mainstream mass media hasn’t shown the slightest interest in policy.

Holden Caulfield2:57 pm 21 Mar 13

Madam Cholet said :

Crean not that long ago was rippng into Kevin cos he thought he was safe with Julia. Seems he got it wrong. Now he’s hedging his bets with Kevin again. Can you have a deputy who is also a backbencher cos that’s what Kevin might seek to make him!

It’s going to be a pretty vacant front bench if Kevvie wins. Who’s out? Who’s in would be easier to answer – Albo, Smith?, Fitzgibbon. Is that it?

I’m not 100% sure that Crean is totally backing Rudd, has he actually said “I will support Mr Rudd”?

I think he’s just trying to end all the leadership talk. History has shown that won’t happen, seeing as that’s what was supposed to happen a bit over 12 months ago.

Madam Cholet said :

Crean not that long ago was rippng into Kevin cos he thought he was safe with Julia. Seems he got it wrong. Now he’s hedging his bets with Kevin again. Can you have a deputy who is also a backbencher cos that’s what Kevin might seek to make him!

It’s going to be a pretty vacant front bench if Kevvie wins. Who’s out? Who’s in would be easier to answer – Albo, Smith?, Fitzgibbon. Is that it?

I disagree – front bench will be filled by Kev – no-one knocks back power, and Kev has been doing the rounds indicating that he is a “changed man”.
My god Gillard looks stressed.

Madam Cholet2:49 pm 21 Mar 13

Crean not that long ago was rippng into Kevin cos he thought he was safe with Julia. Seems he got it wrong. Now he’s hedging his bets with Kevin again. Can you have a deputy who is also a backbencher cos that’s what Kevin might seek to make him!

It’s going to be a pretty vacant front bench if Kevvie wins. Who’s out? Who’s in would be easier to answer – Albo, Smith?, Fitzgibbon. Is that it?

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

They would be excited. They created the leadership spill in the first place.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Of course. Clearly it’s all the media’s fault and not the party failing to hold themselves together.

thebrownstreak692:45 pm 21 Mar 13

Jivrashia said :

I don’t think this matters.

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.

Now Malcolm on the other hand…

Australians.

Forget the personalities.

Confidence motion killed off.

Jivrashia said :

I don’t think this matters.

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.

Now Malcolm on the other hand…

+1

I don’t think this matters.

Who in their right mind would elect Tony, even if they were disenfranchised with Labor.

Now Malcolm on the other hand…

nsn said :

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

Did you read the main article? A Cabinet Minister has called for a leadership spill, and declared his support for Rudd, and you ‘wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon’?

I did. I also knew that one of two things had to happen for any *actual* spill to take place – a petition that met quota, or the PM herself calling a spill. At the time I commented, neither of those things was on the table.

But thanks for your well thought out reply.

Bells are ringing on suspension of standing orders to bring on no confidence motion.

HardBallGets2:30 pm 21 Mar 13

In true Labor style, they’ve done themselves slowly.

Masquara said :

Is riotact on twitter?

Speaking off which, seems Christian Kerr may have been on to something last week.

Masquara said :

Is riotact on twitter?

https://twitter.com/The_RiotACT

Is riotact on twitter?

I called this a week ago – as soon as I saw that Simon Crean had “had work done” on his appearance …

Holden Caulfield2:20 pm 21 Mar 13

johnboy said :

No confidence motion being moved right now.

Unlikely but might actually get up all things considered.

If Mr Rabbit ever finishes his soliloquy. 😆

I wonder if the return of Rudd might awaken Turnbull’s ambitions?

No confidence motion coming up.

already underway

Jim Jones said :

They would be excited. They created the leadership spill in the first place.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

You can hardly blame the media for shambolic policy development.

No confidence motion being moved right now.

Unlikely but might actually get up all things considered.

Holden Caulfield2:08 pm 21 Mar 13

chewy14 said :

Jim Jones said :

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway decent government, who were willing to stick to their guns instead of folding every time the minutest amount of pressure is put on them and their policies either.

A bit from column A and a bit form column B, I think.

The ALP has folded on a number of policies, true, but they’ve also stood firm on a few.

Jim Jones said :

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Also not helped by the fact that coverage is directed by the commercial and partisan agenda of their owners.

Holden Caulfield2:03 pm 21 Mar 13

Spill at 4:30pm today according to 666 news.

so, early election? june 1, anyone? any other tips?

Prime Minister Gillard’s just announced in Question Time a leadership vote for 16:30 this afternoon.

Didn’t one or more of the independents say they were there to support the current Pm only ? They may bring on an election if Julia gets the A ?

Jim Jones said :

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway decent government, who were willing to stick to their guns instead of folding every time the minutest amount of pressure is put on them and their policies either.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd1:43 pm 21 Mar 13

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

They would be excited. They created the leadership spill in the first place.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

too true.

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

Did you read the main article? A Cabinet Minister has called for a leadership spill, and declared his support for Rudd, and you ‘wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon’?

Mysteryman said :

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

They would be excited. They created the leadership spill in the first place.

Wouldn’t be happening if we had a halfway intelligent media who could engage in policy analysis instead of obsessing about personalities. The difference between the national news media and celebrity magazines is hard to pick these days.

Things are VERY busy at PH right now. Journos have been getting around all morning on the phone to staffers and anyone else who can give them any piece of info about the leadership situation. I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens very soon.

It won’t be a landslide if Rudd wins the spill, it’ll be close. The real fun will be if he does win, it’ll be a political bloodbath with a heavy dose of retribution.

There’ll be a few that will never see a ministry position again depending on who wins.

This will be pretty much the last stand of Rudd. If he doesn’t then he won’t get the position until the inevitable labor defeat.

I’m not sure this isn’t Simon Crean’s way to get to the backbench where he can snipe freely.

That or get to call the shots in the party.

Win win for him to a point.

HiddenDragon1:16 pm 21 Mar 13

Some long overdue plain speaking.

He seems to be trying to have his cake and eat it.

Oh lawd, here we go.

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