16 January 2013

Simon warns about extended warranties

| johnboy
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Simon Corbell is warning that extended warranties are mostly rubbish:

“Fair trading agencies across Australia have raised serious questions about the value of extended warranties, and whether they offer any greater protection than that already provided by the Australian Consumer Law (ACL).

Most consumers are offered an extended warranty, particularly when purchasing electrical equipment or whitegoods and for a fee this warranty can be extended beyond that provided by the manufacturer.

Mr Corbell said that in almost all cases consumers were already protected by consumer guarantees or ‘statutory warranties’ under Australian Consumer Law.

“Office of Regulatory Services inspectors will be surveying extended warranties in the market place in the coming months and assessing whether they measure up to the ACL and any claims made by retailers,” he said.

“In the meantime, consumers considering any extended warranties should ask what they offer above and beyond their existing rights, and decide if they are worth the extra money.”

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screaming banshee10:27 am 19 Jan 13

Insurance is for things you couldn’t afford to replace/repair out of pocket. If my MacBook dies once out of warranty and the cost to repair is more than a quarter of its original value I’ll just buy a new one.

Flippant said :

They way I see it, it is insurance, if your product breaks it will save you money, if your product doesnt break you have spent your money, You dont buy house insurance hoping your house burns down….. you buy it just incase it does.

If I bought a $600,000 TV, sure I’d pay $150 for warranty!

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Link?

Look it up yourself. Apple AU website would be a good start.
But if you didn’t already know this stuff, you obviously weren’t an informed customer in choosing to buy AppleCare, are in no position to say it’s an essential purpose. Fool + money = soon parted.

RedDogInCan said :

Any product that they are willing to discount by 25% without any haggling obviously has a pretty healthy profit margin!

Extended warranties are almost entirely margin. On many big ticket items now like televisions and laptops, warranty is where the profit comes from, not the product itself (due to heavy discounting). At Harvey Norman, the warranty firm is actually owned by Harvey Norman itself, so pure profit, while others like Good Guys contract it out. Either way, bulk of the money is margin for the retailer. Only a small fraction goes to the warranty ‘policy’.

Flippant said :

Its good to see that Simon Corbell doesn’t have anything better to do with his time than to kick retailers in the guts when they are already down, retailers are struggling to survive and he decides to create a witch hunt to make it seem like they are ripping people off.

What a joke, isnt there anything better he can do that will actually make a difference to Canberra.

I used to work in an electrical retailer and it really annoys me when people rubbish extended warranties, I buy them personally on purchases and occasionally they come in handy.

They way I see it, it is insurance, if your product breaks it will save you money, if your product doesnt break you have spent your money, You dont buy house insurance hoping your house burns down….. you buy it just incase it does.

If you wanted to make a ‘statutory warranties’ claim and the retailer didnt want to come to the party then your only legal option is to take them to small claims court, pay the lodgement fee which im sure is a couple of hundred dollars then wait to have your case heard which can take months… and in the end that decision is made by a single judge and can go either way depending on how they feel on the day, as the ‘statutory warranties’ under Australian Consumer Law is a very grey area and has been written that way so that it is open to interpretation.

What you are paying for in an extended warranty is assurance that it will be fixed or replaced as quickly and hopefully as painless as possible.

Someone also made a comment regarding commission on warranties, yes you are right salespeople do recieve commission on them as well as everything else they sell, which i hope comes as no shock to anyone…
I also hope that the same people are not shocked to hear that real estate agents get paid a commission as do car salesmen.

Biased much?

Also, saying your only recourse if you make a claim and the retailer doesn’t want to know about it is small claims court is bullshit. In the ACT, the Office of Regulatory Services deals with Fair Trading, and if you’ve tried to resolve your dispute with the retailer and failed, you can lodge a complaint with them. Jumping straight to small claims court isn’t necessary.

And please…comparing extended warranties to insurance is ridiculous. With some exceptions, insurance is about protecting yourself from accidents and disasters. Warranties are about being protected when at item that shouldn’t break, does. You shouldn’t have to buy extra protection just to make sure that something you’ve spent a lot of money on actually lasts a reasonable amount of time.

Flippant said :

If you wanted to make a ‘statutory warranties’ claim and the retailer didnt want to come to the party then your only legal option is to take them to small claims court, pay the lodgement fee which im sure is a couple of hundred dollars then wait to have your case heard which can take months… and in the end that decision is made by a single judge and can go either way depending on how they feel on the day,

Pretty easy to see which side your bread is buttered on…

Taking a retailer to the small claims court is simply. Yes, you pay a small lodgement fee but that fee plus any other costs are added to the amount claimed. The judge however doesn’t make arbitary decisions – their default judgement is always with the claimant unless the defendent presents a solid case against the claim, in which case it is decided on its merits. And the good thing is that the sheriff will enforce the judgement for you.

I recently overheard the following conversation between a salesperson and a consumer:

SP: I would recommend taking an extended warranty on that item.
C: How much is it?
SP: $75 for three years.
C: No thanks.
SP: What about $60?
C: Err, no.
SP: I could do it for $50.

Any product that they are willing to discount by 25% without any haggling obviously has a pretty healthy profit margin!

Its good to see that Simon Corbell doesn’t have anything better to do with his time than to kick retailers in the guts when they are already down, retailers are struggling to survive and he decides to create a witch hunt to make it seem like they are ripping people off.

What a joke, isnt there anything better he can do that will actually make a difference to Canberra.

I used to work in an electrical retailer and it really annoys me when people rubbish extended warranties, I buy them personally on purchases and occasionally they come in handy.

They way I see it, it is insurance, if your product breaks it will save you money, if your product doesnt break you have spent your money, You dont buy house insurance hoping your house burns down….. you buy it just incase it does.

If you wanted to make a ‘statutory warranties’ claim and the retailer didnt want to come to the party then your only legal option is to take them to small claims court, pay the lodgement fee which im sure is a couple of hundred dollars then wait to have your case heard which can take months… and in the end that decision is made by a single judge and can go either way depending on how they feel on the day, as the ‘statutory warranties’ under Australian Consumer Law is a very grey area and has been written that way so that it is open to interpretation.

What you are paying for in an extended warranty is assurance that it will be fixed or replaced as quickly and hopefully as painless as possible.

Someone also made a comment regarding commission on warranties, yes you are right salespeople do recieve commission on them as well as everything else they sell, which i hope comes as no shock to anyone…
I also hope that the same people are not shocked to hear that real estate agents get paid a commission as do car salesmen.

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

No apple care is a great service!

The comma is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle Jack, off a horse.

Did you mean “No, apple care is great service”?

No screen shots please. Uncle Jack is clearly a busy man.

POK said :

I treat extended warranty as being a bit like insurance. Yes its extra, but if I can’t afford the warranty, maybe I need to rethink what Im buying. There are a lot of laws out there meant to protect us, but good luck invoking them the correct way. An extended warranty is pretty hard to argue with, especially with consumer laws right behind it. But Id never buy extended from any business whose longevity was in question. Thats just throwing money away.

On the off-topic of Apple-Care, thats not just a warranty but a service. Chances are an Apple user is either not an IT Professional, or they are and don’t like wasting their time debugging their equipment. In either case there’d be benefit to having someone else do it.

I would suggest that you read the fine print of the extended warranty agreement very carefully. Pay particular attention to the exclusions in the agreement, the ways and means they can use to invalidate the agreement, and the conditions on who the gear needs to be sent to for warranty repair.

I think you’ll find that extended warranty agreements are very easy to argue with if you know what you’re doing. They have actually been written that way deliberately. You’re paying good money for an agreement that isn’t really woth the paper that it’s written on.

The other thing to remember is that these extended warranty companies have no relationship to the equipment manufacture at all, and are not endorsed or recommended by them.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:56 am 18 Jan 13

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Can you also explain the costs to replace MacBook battery’s or hdd on your own?

Macbook Pro 15″ AppleCare – $429

Macbook Pro 13″ AppleCare – $399

Covers only original defects in manufacture of equipment. Excludes battery (except manufacture fault). Excludes plastic components of connector ports. Excludes defects expected with normal wear and tear and age of device.
___________________________________________________

Apple battery replacement for 13 and 15″ models, both built in and non built in – $149.
(Not covered by AppleCare anyway so will always be in addition to)

Power Brick (covered by AppleCare is included with notebook) – $99
(I’ve toasted two in 5 yrs, only the original would have been covered anyway).

Hard disk –

Default config for upper spec 15″ Macbook Pro has a 2.5″ 750GB, 5400rpm HDD.

Replacing it with a retail Seagate 750GB, 7200rpm, 2.5″ drive – $90.

Going for a higher spec or higher capacity drive, perhaps a 1TB SATA 6G/s would be closer to $200.

Screen –

If the screen is dodgy, then it will be apparent in the first year. If it breaks, chances are it’s due to accident or wear and isn’t covered anyway. Up to $700 for a 15″ screen in Australia if replaced by Apple.

RAM –

Under $100.

So even if I had a battery + the HDD + the power brick + the ram, all fail once each, I would have spent as much, or less, than the AppleCare. And given the stats, it’s unlikely that much would fail unless I damaged it accidentally, which isn’t covered anyway.

Link?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Can you also explain the costs to replace MacBook battery’s or hdd on your own?

Macbook Pro 15″ AppleCare – $429

Macbook Pro 13″ AppleCare – $399

Covers only original defects in manufacture of equipment. Excludes battery (except manufacture fault). Excludes plastic components of connector ports. Excludes defects expected with normal wear and tear and age of device.
___________________________________________________

Apple battery replacement for 13 and 15″ models, both built in and non built in – $149.
(Not covered by AppleCare anyway so will always be in addition to)

Power Brick (covered by AppleCare is included with notebook) – $99
(I’ve toasted two in 5 yrs, only the original would have been covered anyway).

Hard disk –

Default config for upper spec 15″ Macbook Pro has a 2.5″ 750GB, 5400rpm HDD.

Replacing it with a retail Seagate 750GB, 7200rpm, 2.5″ drive – $90.

Going for a higher spec or higher capacity drive, perhaps a 1TB SATA 6G/s would be closer to $200.

Screen –

If the screen is dodgy, then it will be apparent in the first year. If it breaks, chances are it’s due to accident or wear and isn’t covered anyway. Up to $700 for a 15″ screen in Australia if replaced by Apple.

RAM –

Under $100.

So even if I had a battery + the HDD + the power brick + the ram, all fail once each, I would have spent as much, or less, than the AppleCare. And given the stats, it’s unlikely that much would fail unless I damaged it accidentally, which isn’t covered anyway.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd9:04 pm 17 Jan 13

c_c™ said :

I note that toe pro-AppleCare and pro-warranty people are using wording that is almost identical to that used by some retailers and Apple’s own training materials.

What a surprise.

As for this insurance comparison and if you can’t afford warranty, don’t buy the product. What crap.

Work out the cost of buying extended warranty on all the gadgets in your house, and then work out the cost of repairing the one or two that may fail statistically speaking. You end up ahead paying for repairs, way ahead, compared to paying for warranties.

Your laptop for example only has a 1 in 5 chance of failing, and a good deal of those failures, about 1/3 are from accidental damage, specifically excluded by extended warranties.

Laptop hard disk – cheaper to buy your own replacement than buy warranty on the tiny chance it fails inside when the extended warranty would reply.

Laptop battery – these by their very nature fail, hence most extended warranties exclude them.

Can you also explain the costs to replace MacBook battery’s or hdd on your own?

I note that toe pro-AppleCare and pro-warranty people are using wording that is almost identical to that used by some retailers and Apple’s own training materials.

What a surprise.

As for this insurance comparison and if you can’t afford warranty, don’t buy the product. What crap.

Work out the cost of buying extended warranty on all the gadgets in your house, and then work out the cost of repairing the one or two that may fail statistically speaking. You end up ahead paying for repairs, way ahead, compared to paying for warranties.

Your laptop for example only has a 1 in 5 chance of failing, and a good deal of those failures, about 1/3 are from accidental damage, specifically excluded by extended warranties.

Laptop hard disk – cheaper to buy your own replacement than buy warranty on the tiny chance it fails inside when the extended warranty would reply.

Laptop battery – these by their very nature fail, hence most extended warranties exclude them.

I treat extended warranty as being a bit like insurance. Yes its extra, but if I can’t afford the warranty, maybe I need to rethink what Im buying. There are a lot of laws out there meant to protect us, but good luck invoking them the correct way. An extended warranty is pretty hard to argue with, especially with consumer laws right behind it. But Id never buy extended from any business whose longevity was in question. Thats just throwing money away.

On the off-topic of Apple-Care, thats not just a warranty but a service. Chances are an Apple user is either not an IT Professional, or they are and don’t like wasting their time debugging their equipment. In either case there’d be benefit to having someone else do it.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

if you’d don’t get it on any apple computer then you are poor and probably should not be spending that cash on a top market product or a dumbass

haha, you’re a sucker. A total sucker. Maybe you don’t how to do maths, maybe you haven’t looked at industry failure rates. Either way, SUCKER!

And seriously – ‘top market product’ – I like Apple computers, I’ve sold them and use them myself, but they’re just circuit boards and cases put together in a Foxconn sweatshop.

Don’t really know much about computers, huh?

Your money sucker.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:16 pm 17 Jan 13

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

if you’d don’t get it on any apple computer then you are poor and probably should not be spending that cash on a top market product or a dumbass

haha, you’re a sucker. A total sucker. Maybe you don’t how to do maths, maybe you haven’t looked at industry failure rates. Either way, SUCKER!

And seriously – ‘top market product’ – I like Apple computers, I’ve sold them and use them myself, but they’re just circuit boards and cases put together in a Foxconn sweatshop.

Don’t really know much about computers, huh?

RadioVK said :

I don’t see what your problem is with their warranty service. Of course you’ll have to take it in to the repair agent to be assessed. They don’t know if you’ve tried to give the unit a drink of bourbon, or if your 3 year old has tried to play a piece of toast in it, or so on. All of this would void the warranty, obviously, and the manufacturer has the right to determine if something like this has happened.

Generally, when you take a piece of gear in for a warranty assessment there will be a fee, but it’s only payable if the warranty claim is rejected.

Your problem seems to be that they wouldn’t just accept your warranty claim without question. No manufacturer would.

On a similar note though, that is another issue with extended warranties. The warranties normally specify the item has to be taken to one of the extended warranty company’s own agents for repair, not the manufacturer’s. Normally these are centralised outlets serving large area, in Canberra, you have to send stuff to Sydney at your own expense. For bulky items like AV receivers, it can cost more to send it for assessment than to pay for a local repair out of your own pocket.

Buckaroo_Banzai4:37 pm 17 Jan 13

Leon said :

Several yerars ago we bought a TV from Harvey Norman, with an extended warranty.

It died after the standard warranty had expired.

Harvey Norman couldn’t repair the TV or replace it with the same model, so they gave us back our money. That was enough to buy a new TV.

The point Simon Corbell is making though is that even if Harvey Norman hadn’t sold you extended warranty, they would have had to repair/replace/refund it anyway under Australian law. If they can’t repair or replace, they have to refund. Ergo, the extended warranty was a waste of money.

EvanJames said :

Deref said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Region locking is bad bad bad.

I can’t remember that last time I had a DVD player that took any notice of region encoding. I seem to have a recollection that there was a court judgement some years ago that it was a “restrictive trade practice” and therefore illegal in Australia. Of course, since then we’ve signed the so-called “free trade agreement” (never was there a greater oxymoron) with the US.

The ACCC seems to have pulled back from taking strong action on this one. Some years back, the ACCC appeared as a witness in a case involving the PS3 (I think), during which appearance the ACCC said that in its opinion, region encoding was anti-competitive practise and therefore contravened our laws. It also said region encoding was clearly there to benefit the seller, not the buyer. Most retailers and some manufacturers took notice of this, and some took pro-active steps like Pioneer.

Oddly, the Samsung cheapie I got from Costco was actually manufactured to be region-free, and Costco in their American wisdom then had Region 4 installed. There were instructions on the web for getting rid of that. I later bought a Sony Blu-ray which according to the web was impossible to unencode without a special remote or a firmware upgrade, so I took it back.

Blu-Ray region encoding is hardware based and cannot be over-ridden on any device without actually opening the unit and modifying the circuit, not even with a special remote or firmware upgrade. Many Blu-Ray players will play DVDs from any region, but only local region Blu-Rays.

When you see a unit advertised as an all region Blu-Ray player, what they usually mean is that it’s a Blu-Ray player that will play DVDs from any region.

EvanJames said :

c_c™ said :

Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. They’re good for one thing and that’s dollar signs for the retailers.

agree. If you want a good extended warranty, buy from Costco.

Regarding statutory warranties, getting them observed by manufacturers is the tricky bit. I paid more than usual for a DVD player from Pioneer, because all Pioneer players have region encoding removed before shipping to the retailer, as standard (all should do it, but don’t).

A few months out of the 1 year warranty, the player died quietly in the night.

I contacted Pioneer, full of zeal about my rights under implied warranty etc, and they said I should take it to the Pioneer repairer (some mob in Belco), and when the repairer found what was wrong with it, they MIGHT cover it under warranty. But to book the gadget into the repairer cost about twice the price of a new cheapie DVD player. So I thought stuff it, and got a cheapie from Costco (which WAS region encoded but that was easily removed).

We have a lot of rights, but getting them enforced is sometimes quite problematical. But I won’t buy Pioneer anything ever again. And I’ve just told a bunch of people about it too.

I don’t see what your problem is with their warranty service. Of course you’ll have to take it in to the repair agent to be assessed. They don’t know if you’ve tried to give the unit a drink of bourbon, or if your 3 year old has tried to play a piece of toast in it, or so on. All of this would void the warranty, obviously, and the manufacturer has the right to determine if something like this has happened.

Generally, when you take a piece of gear in for a warranty assessment there will be a fee, but it’s only payable if the warranty claim is rejected.

Your problem seems to be that they wouldn’t just accept your warranty claim without question. No manufacturer would.

Several yerars ago we bought a TV from Harvey Norman, with an extended warranty.

It died after the standard warranty had expired.

Harvey Norman couldn’t repair the TV or replace it with the same model, so they gave us back our money. That was enough to buy a new TV.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

if you’d don’t get it on any apple computer then you are poor and probably should not be spending that cash on a top market product or a dumbass

haha, you’re a sucker. A total sucker. Maybe you don’t how to do maths, maybe you haven’t looked at industry failure rates. Either way, SUCKER!

And seriously – ‘top market product’ – I like Apple computers, I’ve sold them and use them myself, but they’re just circuit boards and cases put together in a Foxconn sweatshop.

Deref said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Region locking is bad bad bad.

I can’t remember that last time I had a DVD player that took any notice of region encoding. I seem to have a recollection that there was a court judgement some years ago that it was a “restrictive trade practice” and therefore illegal in Australia. Of course, since then we’ve signed the so-called “free trade agreement” (never was there a greater oxymoron) with the US.

The ACCC seems to have pulled back from taking strong action on this one. Some years back, the ACCC appeared as a witness in a case involving the PS3 (I think), during which appearance the ACCC said that in its opinion, region encoding was anti-competitive practise and therefore contravened our laws. It also said region encoding was clearly there to benefit the seller, not the buyer. Most retailers and some manufacturers took notice of this, and some took pro-active steps like Pioneer.

Oddly, the Samsung cheapie I got from Costco was actually manufactured to be region-free, and Costco in their American wisdom then had Region 4 installed. There were instructions on the web for getting rid of that. I later bought a Sony Blu-ray which according to the web was impossible to unencode without a special remote or a firmware upgrade, so I took it back.

thatsnotme said :

c_c™ said :

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

When I entered my most recent contract (for a Samsung phone) I asked about extending the warranty to cover the life of the phone, as I’d done with my previous iPhone. I was told that I didn’t need to do that any more, because consumer law (not sure if this is just the ACT or nationally) now says that the warranty must cover the contracted period.

Which seems like a rare win for common sense.

I’ve been there. Had a 15 month old phone with an issue and took it back to the Telstra dealer. The young salesman tried to tell me it had a 12 month warranty. I told him that I was paying off the phone they provide over a fixed term and that if the phone no longer functioned then a phone plan was worthless to me. They could either fix the phone or cancel my contract so that I could sign up for a new one. He spoke to someone with an idea and they had no hesitation in fixing the phone. I’m sure it wasn’t their first time doing that.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd9:21 pm 16 Jan 13

Pork Hunt said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

No apple care is a great service!

The comma is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle Jack, off a horse.

Did you mean “No, apple care is great service”?

😉

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

No apple care is a great service!

The comma is the difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle Jack, off a horse.

Did you mean “No, apple care is great service”?

c_c™ said :

p1 said :

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

Well that’s what I want to know, do they mean that in a good or a bad way.

AppleCare is way overpriced but they push it hard, mainly because the retailers have attachment targets on AppleCare.

p1 said :

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

When I entered my most recent contract (for a Samsung phone) I asked about extending the warranty to cover the life of the phone, as I’d done with my previous iPhone. I was told that I didn’t need to do that any more, because consumer law (not sure if this is just the ACT or nationally) now says that the warranty must cover the contracted period.

Which seems like a rare win for common sense.

Spykler said :

Myself and Mrs Spykler bought a 55′ LCD LED TV from the Guys who are Good in Belco, after a 20 minute lecture/snow job about the evils of malfunctioning TV’s from the assistant we purchased an extra 2 years of warranty..As we were walking out, I turned around and he was virtually high-fiving his colleague and laughing our way…Its all about the $$$..Nothing more.

Unfortunately, now you know why. You paid for something that you already get for free. Things like TV’s are sold with razor thin margins these days, so to be able to sell an extended warranty along with it increases that margin hugely. If the guy you dealt with is working on commission, he probably earned at least double the commission he’d normally get from your sale simply by getting you to purchase the extended warranty.

Mr Gillespie8:19 pm 16 Jan 13

For once, Simon Corbell is offering good advice. This is exactly why I no longer accept “extended warranties”. Good to see the Office Of Regulatory Services are doing something useful, instead of waving the big stick around for the crime of giving out free plastic shopping bags.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd8:08 pm 16 Jan 13

c_c™ said :

p1 said :

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

Well that’s what I want to know, do they mean that in a good or a bad way.

AppleCare is way overpriced but they push it hard, mainly because the retailers have attachment targets on AppleCare.

Maybe not worth it on a phone or iPad, but if you’d don’t get it on any apple computer then you are poor and probably should not be spending that cash on a top market product or a dumbass

p1 said :

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

Well that’s what I want to know, do they mean that in a good or a bad way.

AppleCare is way overpriced but they push it hard, mainly because the retailers have attachment targets on AppleCare.

Myself and Mrs Spykler bought a 55′ LCD LED TV from the Guys who are Good in Belco, after a 20 minute lecture/snow job about the evils of malfunctioning TV’s from the assistant we purchased an extra 2 years of warranty..As we were walking out, I turned around and he was virtually high-fiving his colleague and laughing our way…Its all about the $$$..Nothing more.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd6:40 pm 16 Jan 13

No apple care is a great service!

Jivrashia said :

I really can’t see anything more than the obvious being stated here.

Unless, manufacturers are forced to provide 5 year warranty as a minimum on expensive television and white goods. Otherwise extended warranties will still be popular to avoid the tragedy of your investment dying on the first day of the fourth year (assuming 3 year warranty).

Or will ACL go in there and fight for me? I seriously doubt it.

The relevant section in that document is on page 13, under the test for acceptable quality, particularly an item being durable:

durable – for example, the toaster must function for a reasonable time after purchase, without breaking down.

It’s still a little grey, and the following sections in the document outline some of the considerations applying, including:

This test takes into account:
> the nature of the goods – for example, a major appliance such as a fridge is expected to last longer
than a toaster
> the price paid for the goods – for example, a cheap toaster is not expected to last as long as a top-of the-range one

So if you went and bought a brand new washing machine, and it had a 1 year warranty, and then it broke down after 13 months, you’d have a strong case for a warranty repair. Nobody expects a washing machine to only work for a year before needing to be repaired or replaced, and consumer law safeguards us against that happening outside of a manufacturer warranty period. If you’d bought the best money could buy, you may have an argument for warranty repair 5 years later, where if you bought a cheapo one, maybe 3 years would be what you could argue (pulling numbers out of thin air here btw).

So in short, yes, consumer groups will fight for you, because the law is on our side – without the need for paying extra for extended warranties.

I bought 6 larger items a couple of years ago and was also talked into extended warranties. Surprisingly I’ve managed to use them for everything except the fridge. I’ve had 4 repairs and 1 replacement on what should have been good quality products from leading manufacturers. At the time I wondered if it was a waste of money but I’ve ended up getting several thousand dollars worth of repairs and replacements for a few hundred dollars. They don’t make things like they used to.

Apple Care is an oxymoron. A bit like Microsoft Works.

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

I assume it also is pretty worthless? If they sell a phone on a 24 month contract, I should have a reasonable expectation it will last 24 months.

c_c™ said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

Would you like a screen shot with that?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

Want to be more specific?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Region locking is bad bad bad.

I can’t remember that last time I had a DVD player that took any notice of region encoding. I seem to have a recollection that there was a court judgement some years ago that it was a “restrictive trade practice” and therefore illegal in Australia. Of course, since then we’ve signed the so-called “free trade agreement” (never was there a greater oxymoron) with the US.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd4:47 pm 16 Jan 13

Region locking is bad bad bad.

I mostly say no to extended warranty but recently got one for new washer.

Also, two words APPLE CARE!!!!!!

EvanJames said :

c_c™ said :

Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. They’re good for one thing and that’s dollar signs for the retailers.

agree. If you want a good extended warranty, buy from Costco.

Regarding statutory warranties, getting them observed by manufacturers is the tricky bit. I paid more than usual for a DVD player from Pioneer, because all Pioneer players have region encoding removed before shipping to the retailer, as standard (all should do it, but don’t).

A few months out of the 1 year warranty, the player died quietly in the night.

I contacted Pioneer, full of zeal about my rights under implied warranty etc, and they said I should take it to the Pioneer repairer (some mob in Belco), and when the repairer found what was wrong with it, they MIGHT cover it under warranty. But to book the gadget into the repairer cost about twice the price of a new cheapie DVD player. So I thought stuff it, and got a cheapie from Costco (which WAS region encoded but that was easily removed).

We have a lot of rights, but getting them enforced is sometimes quite problematical. But I won’t buy Pioneer anything ever again. And I’ve just told a bunch of people about it too.

What value does your rant about region encoding add to the story?

c_c™ said :

Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. They’re good for one thing and that’s dollar signs for the retailers.

agree. If you want a good extended warranty, buy from Costco.

Regarding statutory warranties, getting them observed by manufacturers is the tricky bit. I paid more than usual for a DVD player from Pioneer, because all Pioneer players have region encoding removed before shipping to the retailer, as standard (all should do it, but don’t). A few months out of the 1 year warranty, the player died quietly in the night.

I contacted Pioneer, full of zeal about my rights under implied warranty etc, and they said I should take it to the Pioneer repairer (some mob in Belco), and when the repairer found what was wrong with it, they MIGHT cover it under warranty. But to book the gadget into the repairer cost about twice the price of a new cheapie DVD player. So I thought stuff it, and got a cheapie from Costco (which WAS region encoded but that was easily removed).

We have a lot of rights, but getting them enforced is sometimes quite problematical. But I won’t buy Pioneer anything ever again. And I’ve just told a bunch of people about it too.

…and this would be a busy day for Simon

Mr Corbell said that in almost all cases consumers were already protected by consumer guarantees or ‘statutory warranties’ under Australian Consumer Law.

I really can’t see anything more than the obvious being stated here.

Unless, manufacturers are forced to provide 5 year warranty as a minimum on expensive television and white goods. Otherwise extended warranties will still be popular to avoid the tragedy of your investment dying on the first day of the fourth year (assuming 3 year warranty).

Or will ACL go in there and fight for me? I seriously doubt it.

Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. Don’t buy them. They’re good for one thing and that’s dollar signs for the retailers.

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