6 November 2012

South Tralee goes ahead

| johnboy
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The Village Building Company is celebrating victory in their long march to build a ghetto under the flight path of Canberra Airport across the border in NSW, which in turn is likely to shift the flight paths over Canberra.

“Home ownership is everyone’s dream. Queanbeyan has been starved of well-located affordable housing for seven years. This decision means that young families looking to buy their first home near Jerrabomberra can now get into the housing market. The rezoning of Tralee will restore jobs, growth and opportunity to the families and businesses of Jerrabomberra and Queanbeyan” Mr Winnel said.

South Tralee has been rezoned by the NSW Minister for Planning as the first stage of Queanbeyan City Council’s plan to develop houses and community facilities in the South Jerrabomberra region.

“The rezoning has only been achieved through the commitment and tenacity of the Member for Monaro John Barilaro. The project has also achieved strong support from Queanbeyan Council’s Mayor Tim Overall, all nine other Councillors, the Jerrabomberra Residents Association, the Queanbeyan Business Council and sporting clubs and community groups throughout Queanbeyan.

They’ve also produced a lovely fact sheet.

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Tetranitrate2:28 pm 11 Nov 12

HenryBG said :

Ignore the Greens, they’re finished. Sheikh is a nobody who won’t get any support.

If they start flying planes over Canberra, Humphries will be under real pressure. The two electorates not so much unless we have a Labor government at the time, (so, thinking ahead to about 2030 here) in which case it becomes a possibility.

Humphries won’t be the Senator by 2030 of coruse, anyway:
Under real pressure from who? Labor? If green support seriously erodes(which it probably will a bit) enough of it will splinter off toward the various minor parties that the libs could probably survive with 0.9 or 0.8 quotas before Labor really gets in with a shot of taking both seats. I mean to get both seats they effectively need to get just over two thirds of the vote after preferences – Canberra may well be a labor town, but it’s not that much of a labor town -only a small fraction of lower house seats in the entire country have margins that lopsided (Fraser is sorta close, but not quite, Canberra is nowhere near), and the senate is more likely to have votes going elsewhere well before they get to the major parties, allowing for leakage and preference deals regarding the tickets for above the line voting. It’s just not possible with Canberra’s demographics – there are too many other issues attracting peoples votes.

Tetranitrate said :

HenryBG said :

MrPC said :

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Canberra is a safe seat.
Fraser is a safe seat.
Eden Monaro is a marginal seat.

Figure out which lot will get crapped on first when it comes to federal politics.

Nevermind Canberra and Fraser, aircraft noise is more than enough to put Humphries’ seat in danger.

The last time Canberra elected a Liberal (Brendan Smyth), it was a by-election in the final years of the Keating government, triggered by the resignation of the sitting member over the Sports Rorts affair. Canberra subsequently elected Bob McMullan at the 1996 election when Labor was losing seats across the country. Fraser has never elected a non-labor member in its history.
A liberal federal government truly doesn’t give the slightest damn about what Canberrans think and a labor government can safely take them for granted.

The senate is really not in play either, the quota is only 33% and there’s enough leakage from Labor that even when the Libs have fallen under quota they’ve still ended up ahead. What’s more, I’d have imagined Canberrans would have been a lot more upset with the feds from 1996-1998, for obvious reasons than they could ever be over aircraft noise.
In 2007, with the Howard government on the nose had a the Greens, Labor, Getup and what was left of the democrats pouring resources into the ACT, the libs still handily managed a quota – and that was with Kerrie Tucker running for the Greens.
Who are they going to run now? Simon Sheikh? who’s lived in Canberra for mere months, knows nothing about the city and sees it as little more than a potential route into federal politics?

Ignore the Greens, they’re finished. Sheikh is a nobody who won’t get any support.

If they start flying planes over Canberra, Humphries will be under real pressure. The two electorates not so much unless we have a Labor government at the time, (so, thinking ahead to about 2030 here) in which case it becomes a possibility.

Tetranitrate11:11 am 11 Nov 12

HenryBG said :

MrPC said :

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Canberra is a safe seat.
Fraser is a safe seat.
Eden Monaro is a marginal seat.

Figure out which lot will get crapped on first when it comes to federal politics.

Nevermind Canberra and Fraser, aircraft noise is more than enough to put Humphries’ seat in danger.

The last time Canberra elected a Liberal (Brendan Smyth), it was a by-election in the final years of the Keating government, triggered by the resignation of the sitting member over the Sports Rorts affair. Canberra subsequently elected Bob McMullan at the 1996 election when Labor was losing seats across the country. Fraser has never elected a non-labor member in its history.
A liberal federal government truly doesn’t give the slightest damn about what Canberrans think and a labor government can safely take them for granted.

The senate is really not in play either, the quota is only 33% and there’s enough leakage from Labor that even when the Libs have fallen under quota they’ve still ended up ahead. What’s more, I’d have imagined Canberrans would have been a lot more upset with the feds from 1996-1998, for obvious reasons than they could ever be over aircraft noise.
In 2007, with the Howard government on the nose had a the Greens, Labor, Getup and what was left of the democrats pouring resources into the ACT, the libs still handily managed a quota – and that was with Kerrie Tucker running for the Greens.
Who are they going to run now? Simon Sheikh? who’s lived in Canberra for mere months, knows nothing about the city and sees it as little more than a potential route into federal politics?

HenryBG said :

MrPC said :

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Canberra is a safe seat.
Fraser is a safe seat.
Eden Monaro is a marginal seat.

Figure out which lot will get crapped on first when it comes to federal politics.

Nevermind Canberra and Fraser, aircraft noise is more than enough to put Humphries’ seat in danger.

Is this your ‘gut’ feeling as a pundit?

MrPC said :

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Canberra is a safe seat.
Fraser is a safe seat.
Eden Monaro is a marginal seat.

Figure out which lot will get crapped on first when it comes to federal politics.

Nevermind Canberra and Fraser, aircraft noise is more than enough to put Humphries’ seat in danger.

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

Henry, henry, henry… you’ve got it all wrong. That noise will be shared with Canberra, thus reducing any discomfort to future residents to a minimum.

I think you will find that the results of democracy in Canberra will be a unanimous “no” to changing any flight paths to suit people who’ve stupidly chosen to go and live under them.

And I think you’ll find that flight paths are managed by a federally owned organisation who doesn’t care two hoots about ‘democracy in Canberra’.

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Google ‘marginal seat’ henry. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you…

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

Canberra is a safe seat.
Fraser is a safe seat.
Eden Monaro is a marginal seat.

Figure out which lot will get crapped on first when it comes to federal politics.

HenryBG said :

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

400000 voters in a safe seat < 20000 scruff-ville residents in a bellwether swing seat, if you're talking Federal. 400000 ACT residents = 0 if you're talking NSW State election.
I'm sure Queanbeyan will look upon the Ozymandian feet of HenryBG's wrathful democracy and piss itself laughing.

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

Henry, henry, henry… you’ve got it all wrong. That noise will be shared with Canberra, thus reducing any discomfort to future residents to a minimum.

I think you will find that the results of democracy in Canberra will be a unanimous “no” to changing any flight paths to suit people who’ve stupidly chosen to go and live under them.

And I think you’ll find that flight paths are managed by a federally owned organisation who doesn’t care two hoots about ‘democracy in Canberra’.

And I think you’ll find that 400,000 pissed off voters have far more pull than the 20,000 residents of scruff-ville.

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

Henry, henry, henry… you’ve got it all wrong. That noise will be shared with Canberra, thus reducing any discomfort to future residents to a minimum.

I think you will find that the results of democracy in Canberra will be a unanimous “no” to changing any flight paths to suit people who’ve stupidly chosen to go and live under them.

And I think you’ll find that flight paths are managed by a federally owned organisation who doesn’t care two hoots about ‘democracy in Canberra’.

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

Henry, henry, henry… you’ve got it all wrong. That noise will be shared with Canberra, thus reducing any discomfort to future residents to a minimum.

I think you will find that the results of democracy in Canberra will be a unanimous “no” to changing any flight paths to suit people who’ve stupidly chosen to go and live under them.

Deref said :

watto23 said :

Also how much money from Canberra actually pours into the Queanbeyan economy?

Wrong question.

It should be “how much money pours out of Canberra’s economy by treating Queanbeyan people at Canberra Hospital and taking Queanbeyan kids in Canberra’s public schools?”

When I have been in Canberra Hospital, a large percentage of the patients were from areas of NSW from Young down to far south coast. The NSW government pays an amount to the ACT government for this service. I don’t know the amount, but I do know that Katy Gallagher was very happy with the new agreement she negotiated with the NSW Liberal government. If the ACT wasn’t treating these regional patients, we probably wouldn’t have some of the excellent facilities such as the world class neurosurgery theatres.

watto23 said :

Also how much money from Canberra actually pours into the Queanbeyan economy?

Wrong question.

It should be “how much money pours out of Canberra’s economy by treating Queanbeyan people at Canberra Hospital and taking Queanbeyan kids in Canberra’s public schools?”

My wife says ‘Vigorously Boning Canberra’.

Very Bad Citizens.

Venomous Bubonic Cancer.

Violent Beasts Copulating.

Velvet Beetroot’s Cerebellum.

farq said :

Do the initals VBC really mean Very Bad for Canberra?

Or Villians Building Crap?

No one has anything? Oh comes on, this is easy:
– Very Bland Construction
– Vilified By Canberra
– Violating Basic Common-sense
– Vexatious Bastards Consuming

Voted Biggest C***s.

What’s that word that word for the thing when you tell all your friends to avoid and not do business with a company because of how horrible they are?

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

Henry, henry, henry… you’ve got it all wrong. That noise will be shared with Canberra, thus reducing any discomfort to future residents to a minimum.

Thanks for the insightful comments, Gungahlin Al.

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Yes, the point has been made that some extraordinarily stupid and short-sighted people are planning a residential development under a flight path.

Here’s hoping Terry Snow can get hold of some good loud jets and have them flying in relay very low over Tralee all day every Saturday once the display homes are up.

And let’s hope the Canberra Airport has the balls to develop a specialised procedure for dealing with noise complaints from Tralee: straight in the bin.

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

The point’s been made. You’re just being deliberately ignorant, as usual.

Chop71 said :

maxblues said :

Green-Labor MLA Katy Gallagher is not so keen on Tralee development because even if she triples rates, she won’t see a single cent out of the 5000 home project,

…and have to provide the west Quangers residents with jobs, hospitals and school for their kiddies.

seriously, why don’t they just extend the border. (or put up a fence)

Are you suggesting that the only reason they put a fence around the luxurious AMC was to keep the Qbeings out?

maxblues said :

Green-Labor MLA Katy Gallagher is not so keen on Tralee development because even if she triples rates, she won’t see a single cent out of the 5000 home project,

…and have to provide the west Quangers residents with jobs, hospitals and school for their kiddies.

seriously, why don’t they just extend the border. (or put up a fence)

I can see why Labor MLC Steve Whan supports Tralee development. He is a good man, but only held his seat by 2% and desperately needs more urban (if not urbane) constituents.
Green-Labor MLA Katy Gallagher is not so keen on Tralee development because even if she triples rates, she won’t see a single cent out of the 5000 home project,

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

Change the name of Canberra to Greater West Queanbeyan.

An interesting article in the Telegraph this morning says that of the 30000 thousand complaints received in the last 12 months about noise at Sydney airport , 20000 came from one person.. Who lives 30km from airport…and not even under a flight path. Another 4000 complaints came from a second individual.

Just goes to show how one Nimby can really affect the numbers!

Do the initals VBC really mean Very Bad for Canberra?

Or Villians Building Crap?

milkman said :

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

You’re not making that point very well considering the issue here isn’t about how Tralee might impact Canberrans, but how Canberra might impact Tralee with its aircraft noise.

It is sad though that your scruffy town feels neglected and uncared-for by Canberrans – what would you like us to do to make it better?

milkman said :

Gungahlin Al said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

Dammit Henry stop it! That’s 3 times now. If I start agreeing with MrGillespie, someone just shoot me OK?

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

Not caring about Queanbeyan is a harse call to be honest. I mean both governments have worked to improve the bottlenecks out of jerrabomberra for a start.

Also the jail really is a case of nimbyism. So far how has the jail affected the residents of Jerrabomberra? I’d argue it affected users of the Monaro Hwy more because the speed limit got lowereed for an extra km or so and thats not really a big issue.

Also how much money from Canberra actually pours into the Queanbeyan economy? You can complain about the slowness of the ACT government to release land etc. And the fact that across the border they seem to have less of an issue.

Gungahlin Al said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

Dammit Henry stop it! That’s 3 times now. If I start agreeing with MrGillespie, someone just shoot me OK?

You do see the point I’m making, though… right? The ACT hasn’t cared one iota about its neighbour, but expects NSW to consider how their decisions might impact Canberrans…

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

This post illustrates exactly why NSW doesn’t care. If you trivialise the concerns of your neighbours (ie with the gaol and new industrial estate) then you can expect your neighbours to trivialise your concerns in return. Queanbeyan isn’t worried about noise – it can be shared with Canberra.

This post illustrates exactly why Canberrans show such contempt for the intellectual capabilities of Quangerites.

No, it illustrates how self-focussed people like you are. You are the NIMBY queen.

You obviously have utterly failed to grasp this issue. It is very much about *not* being self-focussed like the Jerrabombers with their spurious complaints about Hume, but rather it’s about looking at a bigger picture, taking a long-term view and hoping for some sensible oversight of planning decisions for the benefit of all the residents of the region.

It’s pretty ironic that the raceway that used to exist there, which was closed largely due to noise complaints from a housing development created next to a raceway, will be replaced by a housing development sure to make noise complaints.

Gungahlin Al10:28 pm 08 Nov 12

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

Dammit Henry stop it! That’s 3 times now. If I start agreeing with MrGillespie, someone just shoot me OK?

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

This post illustrates exactly why NSW doesn’t care. If you trivialise the concerns of your neighbours (ie with the gaol and new industrial estate) then you can expect your neighbours to trivialise your concerns in return. Queanbeyan isn’t worried about noise – it can be shared with Canberra.

This post illustrates exactly why Canberrans show such contempt for the intellectual capabilities of Quangerites.

No, it illustrates how self-focussed people like you are. You are the NIMBY queen.

I think the Tralee development is a terrible idea, and that they should have got the hint 10 years ago when it was first knocked back.

Besides the being near a flight path that could potentially become busier and take bigger planes in the future, there is also the fact that it will be poorly served.
No buses, no police, no fire station, no shops and plonked behind an industrial zone
Jerrabomberra residents struggled for over a decade of only having a single road in and out, a single shop, no school and no services, and it was closer to Queanbeyan, and it only resolved some of the issues fairly recently as it grew much larger than Tralee is planned to be.
Will they start pushing to build a Tralee North, which will be even further under the flight path?

Surely there are better uses for the land that reflect it’s industrial/rural surroundings?
There was once a speedway at Tralee, we could rebuild that bigger into a proper track and use it to teach Canberrans how to drive when it’s not being a tourism attraction for race meets.
How about putting in another large scale solar farm development? Solar panels don’t care about the noise, and with Hume right there I don’t think any neighbouring farmers can really complain that it’s ruining the view.
Wasn’t there a plan to build a gas powered power plant in that area? What happened to that?

Glen Takkenberg
My own opinions, not those of Pirate Party ACT.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Well I flew into Adelaide recently. Nuthin but houses for about 10 minutes before we landed

And they’re all serial killers. Contrails made ’em do it.

Chemtrails, Woody, chemtrails…

milkman said :

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

This post illustrates exactly why NSW doesn’t care. If you trivialise the concerns of your neighbours (ie with the gaol and new industrial estate) then you can expect your neighbours to trivialise your concerns in return. Queanbeyan isn’t worried about noise – it can be shared with Canberra.

This post illustrates exactly why Canberrans show such contempt for the intellectual capabilities of Quangerites.

Woody Mann-Caruso6:30 pm 08 Nov 12

Well I flew into Adelaide recently. Nuthin but houses for about 10 minutes before we landed

And they’re all serial killers. Contrails made ’em do it.

HenryBG said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

This post illustrates exactly why NSW doesn’t care. If you trivialise the concerns of your neighbours (ie with the gaol and new industrial estate) then you can expect your neighbours to trivialise your concerns in return. Queanbeyan isn’t worried about noise – it can be shared with Canberra.

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

WTF impact does a gaol nowhere near Jerrabomberra have on anybody? That’s got to be the stupidest complaint ever.

In case you missed it – the ACT isn’t objecting to any development on account of the impact it will have on the ACT, we’re pointing out the short-sighted stupidity of developing land that will be subject to aircraft noise.

Tetranitrate said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.
This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

Bingo.
NIMBYism at its hypocritical finest. I’m really enjoying the angst here.
“RAAAHHH MY EQUITY! OINK OINK”

Perhaps if we’d seen more development in the ACT over the past 10 years this wouldn’t even be viable.

How is it NIMBYism to not want a massive piece of infrastructure and possible economic growth area to be curtailed by short term and short sighted developments that will only benefit a tiny amount of people and mainly one developer?

The airport benefits the entire region not just the people in the ACT. Seems like a few councillors think a quick buck is worth more than long term economic growth.

Tetranitrate said :

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.
This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

Bingo.
NIMBYism at its hypocritical finest. I’m really enjoying the angst here.
“RAAAHHH MY EQUITY! OINK OINK”

Perhaps if we’d seen more development in the ACT over the past 10 years this wouldn’t even be viable.

“But we’re Canberrans, dammit! Can’t somebody do something?”

Tetranitrate8:26 pm 07 Nov 12

milkman said :

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.
This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

Bingo.
NIMBYism at its hypocritical finest. I’m really enjoying the angst here.
“RAAAHHH MY EQUITY! OINK OINK”

Perhaps if we’d seen more development in the ACT over the past 10 years this wouldn’t even be viable.

Pork Hunt said :

JimCharles said :

DrKoresh said :

Can someone correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but Tralee will be part of QBN/NSW won’t it? And the airport is here in the A.C.T so residents complaining of noise in Tralee will have no-one to complain to. The government here doesn’t have to worry about what residents of a NSW town have to say, so won’t it merely be a case of “tough titties, you messed your bed now lay in it” rather than flight curfews or increased aircraft traffic over Canberra’s northern suburbs?

Airports and the activities carried out both on the ground and in the air are under Federal arrangements (Commonwealth land). This is why Snowtown has been able to carry on without interference from the ACT gov regarding buildings etc on the grounds of the CA.
Further, I believe that ABC666 stated the other morning that airports when privatised, were given 50 year leases from the Commonwealth.

Isn’t it just that NSW will then be put in a different position when/if negotiating about future expansion of Sydney and maybe coming to an agreement with ACT?

Either way it seems like grubby, short-sighted politics. With all the stupid amounts of available land around here it just seems unnecessary to create more self-inflicted problems which are going to fall into the lap of future politicians to untangle.

Something seriously wrong with the quotes system here.

What I said was this:

Airports and the activities carried out both on the ground and in the air are under Federal arrangements (Commonwealth land). This is why Snowtown has been able to carry on without interference from the ACT gov regarding buildings etc on the grounds of the CA.
Further, I believe that ABC666 stated the other morning that airports when privatised, were given 50 year leases from the Commonwealth.

I can’t believe the dumb decisions governments make at time. Why put in a new suburb over a flight path knowing full well the end result will be to share the pain around to those living in suburbs where there is currently no aircraft noise. This is the way it always works, so why not use some commonsense and keep the corridor free of residents. Why do developer interests always win out over sensible policy. I hope the ACT government will act in the interests of residents to ensure this does not go ahead. There could have been a referendum on this (and other issues) in the last election. Even though the area is NSW the ACT could have made things difficult with associated infrastructure development.

Stupid is as stupid does. Apologies to Forrest Gump

JimCharles said :

DrKoresh said :

Can someone correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but Tralee will be part of QBN/NSW won’t it? And the airport is here in the A.C.T so residents complaining of noise in Tralee will have no-one to complain to. The government here doesn’t have to worry about what residents of a NSW town have to say, so won’t it merely be a case of “tough titties, you messed your bed now lay in it” rather than flight curfews or increased aircraft traffic over Canberra’s northern suburbs?

Airports and the activities carried out both on the ground and in the air are under Federal arrangements (Commonwealth land). This is why Snowtown has been able to carry on without interference from the ACT gov regarding buildings etc on the grounds of the CA.
Further, I believe that ABC666 stated the other morning that airports when privatised, were given 50 year leases from the Commonwealth.

Isn’t it just that NSW will then be put in a different position when/if negotiating about future expansion of Sydney and maybe coming to an agreement with ACT?

Either way it seems like grubby, short-sighted politics. With all the stupid amounts of available land around here it just seems unnecessary to create more self-inflicted problems which are going to fall into the lap of future politicians to untangle.

DrKoresh said :

Can someone correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but Tralee will be part of QBN/NSW won’t it? And the airport is here in the A.C.T so residents complaining of noise in Tralee will have no-one to complain to. The government here doesn’t have to worry about what residents of a NSW town have to say, so won’t it merely be a case of “tough titties, you messed your bed now lay in it” rather than flight curfews or increased aircraft traffic over Canberra’s northern suburbs?

Isn’t it just that NSW will then be put in a different position when/if negotiating about future expansion of Sydney and maybe coming to an agreement with ACT?

Either way it seems like grubby, short-sighted politics. With all the stupid amounts of available land around here it just seems unnecessary to create more self-inflicted problems which are going to fall into the lap of future politicians to untangle.

Gungahlin Al said :

dungfungus said :

I agree with this analysis. Airlines will always fly the most direct route to their destinations with minimum deviation from a straight in approach. This is to save fuel and minimise passenger discomfort. The worst aircraft noise emitted by passenger jets approaching Canberra from the South is around Googong and Burra where the terrain is higher. Then over the Harman MUD it is very intrusive (I wonder if is this going to be a future problem with whatever they are building there now) The noisiest aircraft over Tuggeranong are the Cessna 206s climbing on full fine pitch loaded with thrillseekers who jump out over Deakin at 10,000 feet.
I think that at the end of the day the Canberra Airport and their wish list for the future can peacefully co-exist with the Tralee development.

I think you are missing the point. The “most direct route” is NOT what flights from the north coming in to the south are currently flying. They have to go a LONG way further south than they’d like to minimise noise. Ditto for the reverse of north/south. Time in the air costs money. A LOT of it.

If there becomes no advantage in fewer noise complaints, their case for coming in/leaving closer to the airport starts to outweigh the airport’s/community’s case for the longer routes.

No matter what direction they are flying from, the aircraft have to land into the prevailing wind which is generally coming from the North. They usually take off into the wind also.

watto23 said :

If noise sharing is ever required, the simple solution is to share it with the council who built the houses in the first place 🙂

WIN!

If politicians were required to endure the consequences of their own decisions we’d live in a very different world.

So everyone is up in arms that ACT might have to noise share, yet no-one gave a crap when the gaol was put near Jerrabomberra and the new industrial estate less than 100m from NSW homes.

This is why NSW isn’t so concerned about ACT’s objections.

bundah said :

poetix said :

Ah, 60 and 61 know their stuff!

The rest of you deserve punishment, so here’s arguably the worst YouTube video ever with a hideous version of the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIslA_ZCcxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ooh what sort of punishment did you have in mind?

Aaaargh! What has been heard cannot be unheard.
What concerns me is that there are 48 likes and 0 dislikes for it on the Tube.

If noise sharing is ever required, the simple solution is to share it with the council who built the houses in the first place 🙂

I work in Fyshwick and I don’t hear the planes much during the day. Stay back at night and I can hear them. Less noise pollution for a start.

It may be borderline as to whether the noise would affect the houses in Tralee, either soon or in the future. The point is why take the risk. As the population increases so will the size of the planes. Maybe they’ll get quieter, maybe not. It just seems like a developer trying to make money out of people who will buy because of the cost. Yeah Snow and Byron are seen as money grabbing as well, but we need the airport. We also need houses, but houses are far easier to build in alternative locations.

poetix said :

Ah, 60 and 61 know their stuff!

The rest of you deserve punishment, so here’s arguably the worst YouTube video ever with a hideous version of the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIslA_ZCcxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ooh what sort of punishment did you have in mind?

I’ve lived in Macarthur for just over 8 years now and for the first few years, I don’t think I ever heard any aircraft noise, (with the exception of the SouthCare helicopter, which doesn’t really bother me, because it’s only in the air if someone really needs help).
However the whole “aircraft noise over Jerrabomberra” issue was raised, again, a few years ago, and I believe that flight paths were changed slightly to appease some of the complaints.
Now, every so often, I do hear aircraft, particularly on quiet evenings, occasionally loud enough to be heard inside, with the TV on.
It’s not what I’d call “unbearable” at the moment, (and given the occasional nature, I suspect that it may be pilots veering slightly off route sometimes), but, the fact that you can hear it makes me wonder how it would affect your life if you lived right under it.

I assume many other readers heard the Jerrabomberra resident on the ABC radio morning show yesterday proclaiming that the noise in Jerra was negligible and that anyway, it was time to start noise sharing and see how Canberra liked having to put up with it.
Kind of shooting himself in the foot, I thought.

The other outstanding concern I have with the way this is being promoted it the fact that there are strict guidelines in place concerning the use of double glazing and insulation to reduce the non-existant noise.
Seems like a lot of expense for “Affordable Housing”.

Here’s my course of action.
1/
I’ll be agitating for a 100 year lockdown of the flightpath.
When I bought my house, it wasn’t under a flight path, if it ends up under one because some fool has built under it then squealed until it was moved, there’s going to be some kicking and screaming.
Lock the flight path for 100 years, make it clear to any potential resident that it won’t be moved, and we’ll see how many properties are sold.

2/
Apparently, complaining is the way to go, so I’ll be lodging a complaint every time I hear an aircraft now, and would encourage all residents in the Tuggeranong area to do the same.
It’s not that the noise really bothers me at the moment, but I want the authorities to know that more noise will bring more annoying complaints.

P.S.
I never thought I’d find myself on the same side of an argument as Mr Snow, but there you go.

Diggety said :

If however, Tralee residents start to complain, we can only hope we have politicians/bureacrats willing to tell them to go f**k themselves.

Can’t imagine anyone at the Federal level willing to tell a significant pocket of voters in the bellwether Eden-Monaro division to go fuck themselves.

Like some Rioters have mentioned, the noise over Hume is not much to deal with for southern approaches. Adding in Tralee, sure this region is directly in a lot of the SW aircraft approaches, but aircraft altitude would be even higher (so no surprises it passes noise standards).

If however, Tralee residents start to complain, we can only hope we have politicians/bureacrats willing to tell them to go f**k themselves.

The only ‘noise sharing’ scenario I could see happening is a second runway, and IF that happens, any Tralee developed will be irrelevant.

Gungahlin Al12:53 pm 07 Nov 12

dungfungus said :

I agree with this analysis. Airlines will always fly the most direct route to their destinations with minimum deviation from a straight in approach. This is to save fuel and minimise passenger discomfort. The worst aircraft noise emitted by passenger jets approaching Canberra from the South is around Googong and Burra where the terrain is higher. Then over the Harman MUD it is very intrusive (I wonder if is this going to be a future problem with whatever they are building there now) The noisiest aircraft over Tuggeranong are the Cessna 206s climbing on full fine pitch loaded with thrillseekers who jump out over Deakin at 10,000 feet.
I think that at the end of the day the Canberra Airport and their wish list for the future can peacefully co-exist with the Tralee development.

I think you are missing the point. The “most direct route” is NOT what flights from the north coming in to the south are currently flying. They have to go a LONG way further south than they’d like to minimise noise. Ditto for the reverse of north/south. Time in the air costs money. A LOT of it.

If there becomes no advantage in fewer noise complaints, their case for coming in/leaving closer to the airport starts to outweigh the airport’s/community’s case for the longer routes.

farq said :

You have to admire Bob’s work. He gets to make a tidy sum pumping out crappy houses on tiny blocks, while he robs our children of the oppurtunity to expland an important part of our economy.

I would not feel so bad if VBC actually produced a quality product, but they won’t. You know they are just going to s*** out another s***ty slum.

This is unfair criticism. The developers paid out a lot of money for the Tralee land a long time ago and unlike governments, a private developer has to pay interest with his own money. Most people are happy to have anything for their first home; it is a compromise between regulated standards and affordability. Value is more important than quality.

Pork Hunt said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Pork Hunt said :

Aircraft have approach and departure paths that are directly related to the orientation of the runway. Aircraft using only runway available for larger aircraft (17/35) will fly over the Majura Valley or Jerra and Hume as they do now.
How noise sharing will occur is a mystery to me.

It would help the debate if people got a handle on some of the spatial facts on this, so please have a quick look at this quarterly noise report from ASA: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/Canberra-2012-2nd-Quarter.pdf
Just jump straight to the maps on pages 13, 14, 18 to 20, and particularly for people in the north page 23. Remember the tracks shown are for 3 months only.

So with that baseline info, to answer your question: how would noise sharing work?

Currently Canberra approaches and departures take unusually long routes so that they sweep out and around major population areas (read: potential sources of noise complaints) – much longer than the planes actually need. The airlines largely co-operate with the airport because low complaints make everyone happy. There is a lot overhead with dealing with noise complaints for all parties.

But if complaints soar (see what I did there?) from one area under that current long route, airlines will find it easier to turn into approach paths and out of departures closer to the airport. The degree of closer determines how much the noise is shared, and how many people are effected.

And for those who work in Hume during the day and reckon the noise isn’t that bad, remember two points:
* much of Tralee is significantly closer to the route than most of Hume, and every 100m makes a big difference
* noise perception during the day is vastly reduced as opposed to nighttime perception.

As evidence on the metres=difference point, at one noise committee meeting a few years back, I suggested that the airlines look at using their new GPS approach guidance systems (called RNP) to deviate slightly west from the approach path at the point of closest approach to Jerra. They did bring in this dogleg (not for planes without the gear obviously) and it made a huge difference to complaints from Jerra residents. You can see the path on page 17 of the report above. Jerra residents aren’t going to like it if the path is straightened up again…

In other words, nothing will change. The long routes will continue thus minimising noise complaints.
If the residents of the utopian Tralee development complain, why would that force a change to the flights paths causing further complaints? After all, they were forewarned.
In any case, I can’t envisage aircraft skimming the tree tops of Yarralumla, Deakin or Forrest while on approach to the CA.

I agree with this analysis. Airlines will always fly the most direct route to their destinations with minimum deviation from a straight in approach. This is to save fuel and minimise passenger discomfort. The worst aircraft noise emitted by passenger jets approaching Canberra from the South is around Googong and Burra where the terrain is higher. Then over the Harman MUD it is very intrusive (I wonder if is this going to be a future problem with whatever they are building there now) The noisiest aircraft over Tuggeranong are the Cessna 206s climbing on full fine pitch loaded with thrillseekers who jump out over Deakin at 10,000 feet.
I think that at the end of the day the Canberra Airport and their wish list for the future can peacefully co-exist with the Tralee development.

I think it works like this

N.S.W. is near broke. Lets turn $7M of land into $400m worth of land then add house prices on top and there is a nice lump sum of stamp duty and state taxes being paid to us. All in favour say “aye” .

You have to admire Bob’s work. He gets to make a tidy sum pumping out crappy houses on tiny blocks, while he robs our children of the oppurtunity to expland an important part of our economy.

I would not feel so bad if VBC actually produced a quality product, but they won’t. You know they are just going to s*** out another s***ty slum.

Gungahlin Al said :

Pork Hunt said :

Aircraft have approach and departure paths that are directly related to the orientation of the runway. Aircraft using only runway available for larger aircraft (17/35) will fly over the Majura Valley or Jerra and Hume as they do now.
How noise sharing will occur is a mystery to me.

It would help the debate if people got a handle on some of the spatial facts on this, so please have a quick look at this quarterly noise report from ASA: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/Canberra-2012-2nd-Quarter.pdf
Just jump straight to the maps on pages 13, 14, 18 to 20, and particularly for people in the north page 23. Remember the tracks shown are for 3 months only.

So with that baseline info, to answer your question: how would noise sharing work?

Currently Canberra approaches and departures take unusually long routes so that they sweep out and around major population areas (read: potential sources of noise complaints) – much longer than the planes actually need. The airlines largely co-operate with the airport because low complaints make everyone happy. There is a lot overhead with dealing with noise complaints for all parties.

But if complaints soar (see what I did there?) from one area under that current long route, airlines will find it easier to turn into approach paths and out of departures closer to the airport. The degree of closer determines how much the noise is shared, and how many people are effected.

And for those who work in Hume during the day and reckon the noise isn’t that bad, remember two points:
* much of Tralee is significantly closer to the route than most of Hume, and every 100m makes a big difference
* noise perception during the day is vastly reduced as opposed to nighttime perception.

As evidence on the metres=difference point, at one noise committee meeting a few years back, I suggested that the airlines look at using their new GPS approach guidance systems (called RNP) to deviate slightly west from the approach path at the point of closest approach to Jerra. They did bring in this dogleg (not for planes without the gear obviously) and it made a huge difference to complaints from Jerra residents. You can see the path on page 17 of the report above. Jerra residents aren’t going to like it if the path is straightened up again…

In other words, nothing will change. The long routes will continue thus minimising noise complaints.
If the residents of the utopian Tralee development complain, why would that force a change to the flights paths causing further complaints? After all, they were forewarned.
In any case, I can’t envisage aircraft skimming the tree tops of Yarralumla, Deakin or Forrest while on approach to the CA.

Gungahlin Al said :

As evidence on the metres=difference point, at one noise committee meeting a few years back, I suggested that the airlines look at using their new GPS approach guidance systems (called RNP) to deviate slightly west from the approach path at the point of closest approach to Jerra. They did bring in this dogleg (not for planes without the gear obviously) and it made a huge difference to complaints from Jerra residents. You can see the path on page 17 of the report above. Jerra residents aren’t going to like it if the path is straightened up again…

What I get from that is that people who choose to live under a flight path get to have their complaints noticed.

I would have thought such complaints should be dealt with by throwing them straight into the bin.
Perhaps we need legislation stating that noise complaints from Tralee will not be acknowledged in any way whatsoever.

Ah, 60 and 61 know their stuff!

The rest of you deserve punishment, so here’s arguably the worst YouTube video ever with a hideous version of the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIslA_ZCcxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Gungahlin Al9:43 am 07 Nov 12

Pork Hunt said :

Aircraft have approach and departure paths that are directly related to the orientation of the runway. Aircraft using only runway available for larger aircraft (17/35) will fly over the Majura Valley or Jerra and Hume as they do now.
How noise sharing will occur is a mystery to me.

It would help the debate if people got a handle on some of the spatial facts on this, so please have a quick look at this quarterly noise report from ASA: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/Canberra-2012-2nd-Quarter.pdf
Just jump straight to the maps on pages 13, 14, 18 to 20, and particularly for people in the north page 23. Remember the tracks shown are for 3 months only.

So with that baseline info, to answer your question: how would noise sharing work?

Currently Canberra approaches and departures take unusually long routes so that they sweep out and around major population areas (read: potential sources of noise complaints) – much longer than the planes actually need. The airlines largely co-operate with the airport because low complaints make everyone happy. There is a lot overhead with dealing with noise complaints for all parties.

But if complaints soar (see what I did there?) from one area under that current long route, airlines will find it easier to turn into approach paths and out of departures closer to the airport. The degree of closer determines how much the noise is shared, and how many people are effected.

And for those who work in Hume during the day and reckon the noise isn’t that bad, remember two points:
* much of Tralee is significantly closer to the route than most of Hume, and every 100m makes a big difference
* noise perception during the day is vastly reduced as opposed to nighttime perception.

As evidence on the metres=difference point, at one noise committee meeting a few years back, I suggested that the airlines look at using their new GPS approach guidance systems (called RNP) to deviate slightly west from the approach path at the point of closest approach to Jerra. They did bring in this dogleg (not for planes without the gear obviously) and it made a huge difference to complaints from Jerra residents. You can see the path on page 17 of the report above. Jerra residents aren’t going to like it if the path is straightened up again…

cranky said :

chrisi said :

cranky said :

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I have worked in Hume for over 20 years. I concur with the above comment, and consider the ‘noise’ to be non existent. ALL aircraft landing from the east come in over Jerrabomberra. The President of the JRA (I think) has stated that this traffic does not cause any problems for residents. Jerra is a couple of K’s north of Tralee, so where this ‘noise’ is going to suddenly come from is a mystery. I would classify landing aircraft noise as being less than the sound of traffic on the Monaro Highway.

Aircraft taking off to the south-east (on the about 1 day in 10 when we have a south-easterly wind blowing), are very high by the time they are over Hume/Tralee. Yes, they can be heard (louder than landing aircraft), but for very short periods of time.

I invite any interested party to visit Sheppard St, Hume, to hear for themselves. Sit outside the takeaway with a cup of coffee, and strain your ears.

I have no interest in this subject other than disabusing the untruths emanating from the Snow/Byron camp.

Untruths?

Mate, its not about what’s flying over your head NOW at Hume, its what will be in 10 or 20 or 50 years. Bigger populations mean busier airports & bigger planes, and even though the current noise is “non existant” to your ears during the day, I will my house that the noise in the evening even in just a decade will be most certainly wont be non existant.

It’s short-sighted and greedy, plain and simple.

We’ve missed a chance at FINALLY getting an airport plan setup for the future, unique to anywhere else in Australia (everyone else fell for the same cash grab as well), but nope…. money talks and bull feaces takes a stroll.

A couple of points.

May I refer you to this article( http://www.examiner.com/article/there-s-a-kind-of-hush-as-aircraft-get-quieter-airport-area-residents-can-get-some-rest) which gives a good indication of the massive reduction in aircraft noise as a result of design. Aircraft will of course become even quieter as the next 10, 20 50 years you are concerned about.

The fact is that virtually NO aircraft approach Canberra Airport over Tralee. Multiplying zero by 50% is still zero.

‘Short-sighted and greedy’. Wow, a classic pot/kettle/black.

Still haven’t answered my question.

However, given this link http://the-riotact.com/more-love-rolling-in-for-the-liberals/82802#comments, at least Yarralumla and, by extension, Molonglo and Weston Creek residents should be fairly immune from any increased air traffic.

milkman said :

As has been pointed out in another thread, ACT has not been a good neighbour to Queanbeyan in recent times, so I’m not surprised this has happened. Noise will be shared, and ACT has no-one but themselves to blame.

Can I get some clarification as to what you are referring?

As far as I can see the ‘sharing the noise’ argument is fallacious. The approaches to the Airport run roughly North/South in the gap between suburban Canberra and Queanbeyan. The fact that in recent decades the NSW side of that gap has become increasingly infilled with residential developments does in no way provide reason that the noise impact on those people should be shared with ACT residents.

poetix said :

Masquara said :

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

Poetix you have the wrong tune in your head. The Gundagai song doesn’t go like the above:
da DA da daaa, da DA da daaaaaa, da Da da da da daaaaa

It goes
da da dum, da da dum, da da daaaa de da da da dum dum, da da daaa daaaa da da daaaaaaaaaa.
(There’s a track, winding back, to an oooold fashioned shack, on the road to Gundagaiiiiiiiiiiiii)

: )

Gosh! Golly! If I can find a billabong tomorrow, I’ll sling myself in, jumbuck or no. I had no idea that poetics walked hand in hand with so many on the RiotACT track, under the benevolent eye of Johnboy Milton.

(Milton was blind, if you don’t get the reference…)

The Happy Wanderer is the song, we used to annoy our scout master by singing it for an hour at a time while hiking.

The noise of Canberra NIMBYs whining on this thread approaches the annoyance levels of a jet engine.

There are bugger all large aircraft using Canberra airport.

This development is south of existing housing and therefore further away from the airport.

For over a decade the ACT government has been doing the go-slow on land release, driving house prices in this overgrown country town to world beating levels. About time we got more land released in the area – whenever land is released NIMBYs complain about it for some reason. If it is not the planes, its some rare insect or frog. Strangely while the NIMBYs care deeply about insects/frogs/aircraft noise, never heard a NIMBY complain about the fact that young members of the human species in this city cannot afford their own roof over their head.

…A couple of points.

May I refer you to this article( http://www.examiner.com/article/there-s-a-kind-of-hush-as-aircraft-get-quieter-airport-area-residents-can-get-some-rest) which gives a good indication of the massive reduction in aircraft noise as a result of design. Aircraft will of course become even quieter as the next 10, 20 50 years you are concerned about.

The fact is that virtually NO aircraft approach Canberra Airport over Tralee. Multiplying zero by 50% is still zero.

‘Short-sighted and greedy’. Wow, a classic pot/kettle/black.

I love planes, but aircraft will always make noise (unless they develop a replacement to the jet engine). Any plan to build houses under a flight plan is just not clever. I live in Jerra and find Tralee just dumb. I see the planes fly over Tralee (and Jerra) and know that one day the small ATR/Dash 8/737 will be replaced by 787/A330/A350. Forgetting that, Tralee residents will place extra burden on the Monaro Hwy which it will struggle to cope with.

So yeah, short-sighted and greedy.

Masquara said :

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

Poetix you have the wrong tune in your head. The Gundagai song doesn’t go like the above:
da DA da daaa, da DA da daaaaaa, da Da da da da daaaaa

It goes
da da dum, da da dum, da da daaaa de da da da dum dum, da da daaa daaaa da da daaaaaaaaaa.
(There’s a track, winding back, to an oooold fashioned shack, on the road to Gundagaiiiiiiiiiiiii)

: )

Gosh! Golly! If I can find a billabong tomorrow, I’ll sling myself in, jumbuck or no. I had no idea that poetics walked hand in hand with so many on the RiotACT track, under the benevolent eye of Johnboy Milton.

(Milton was blind, if you don’t get the reference…)

Evil_Kitten said :

MERC600 said :

Well I flew into Adelaide recently. Nuthin but houses for about 10 minutes before we landed, in fact houses right up to the perimeter fence ( have a squiz at google earth ). How do they get on ? I’m not sure if I would want to live there, ( in fact anywhere in Adelaide) but tens of thousands do live under the flight path…Tralee is miles away from the fence and those low landing/takeing off planes… just sayin’ is all..

Adelaide is funny isn’t it – you can literally wave at people in their backyards. I also visited a friend there who lived in one of those houses and you pretty much had to stop your conversation when a plane came in. Not ideal, but I guess you’d get used to it. It was the trade off for getting (I assume) a cheaper house.

Civilian aircraft from eastern states generally approach Adelaide Airport over north-eastern suburbs and then swing the aircraft around over the Gulf St Vincent to approach landing over West Beach or the other runway just north of Glenelg. They only land from the eastern approaches during wind conditions that make it unsuitable to land from NW or SW. We once had a slightly unnerving experience as passengers on a flight that approached over West Beach. The plane had crossed over Tapleys Hill Road and we were still descending, do we must have been bloody close to touching down, when the pilot powered the aircraft upwards, circled for awhile and then finally landed from the opposite direction. We never did get an explanation.
We have been out in the north-eastern suburbs such as Manningham and Broadview and the noise wasn’t too bad…I’d be more worried about the air pollution and chemicals from exhaust.

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

Poetix you have the wrong tune in your head. The Gundagai song doesn’t go like the above:
da DA da daaa, da DA da daaaaaa, da Da da da da daaaaa

It goes
da da dum, da da dum, da da daaaa de da da da dum dum, da da daaa daaaa da da daaaaaaaaaa.
(There’s a track, winding back, to an oooold fashioned shack, on the road to Gundagaiiiiiiiiiiiii)

: )

Pork Hunt said :

bundah said :

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

I tried with Slim Dusty’s i love to have a beer with Duncan but was buggered with the chorus so i substituted this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtA-FpTZOQw

Thanks for that. I love it when people take the piss… 🙂

Whereas I, as an officially certified sensitive type, am devastated. Totally Traleed.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd8:37 pm 06 Nov 12

Can someone tell me about the chemtrails?

Tetranitrate8:35 pm 06 Nov 12

This is great news. Nice to see that NSW seems to actually give a shit about ensuring there’s sufficient housing in the region.

chrisi said :

cranky said :

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I have worked in Hume for over 20 years. I concur with the above comment, and consider the ‘noise’ to be non existent. ALL aircraft landing from the east come in over Jerrabomberra. The President of the JRA (I think) has stated that this traffic does not cause any problems for residents. Jerra is a couple of K’s north of Tralee, so where this ‘noise’ is going to suddenly come from is a mystery. I would classify landing aircraft noise as being less than the sound of traffic on the Monaro Highway.

Aircraft taking off to the south-east (on the about 1 day in 10 when we have a south-easterly wind blowing), are very high by the time they are over Hume/Tralee. Yes, they can be heard (louder than landing aircraft), but for very short periods of time.

I invite any interested party to visit Sheppard St, Hume, to hear for themselves. Sit outside the takeaway with a cup of coffee, and strain your ears.

I have no interest in this subject other than disabusing the untruths emanating from the Snow/Byron camp.

Untruths?

Mate, its not about what’s flying over your head NOW at Hume, its what will be in 10 or 20 or 50 years. Bigger populations mean busier airports & bigger planes, and even though the current noise is “non existant” to your ears during the day, I will my house that the noise in the evening even in just a decade will be most certainly wont be non existant.

It’s short-sighted and greedy, plain and simple.

We’ve missed a chance at FINALLY getting an airport plan setup for the future, unique to anywhere else in Australia (everyone else fell for the same cash grab as well), but nope…. money talks and bull feaces takes a stroll.

A couple of points.

May I refer you to this article( http://www.examiner.com/article/there-s-a-kind-of-hush-as-aircraft-get-quieter-airport-area-residents-can-get-some-rest) which gives a good indication of the massive reduction in aircraft noise as a result of design. Aircraft will of course become even quieter as the next 10, 20 50 years you are concerned about.

The fact is that virtually NO aircraft approach Canberra Airport over Tralee. Multiplying zero by 50% is still zero.

‘Short-sighted and greedy’. Wow, a classic pot/kettle/black.

LSWCHP said :

dungfungus said :

I expect blocks of residential units will soon be constructed in the old housing estate where RAAF Fairbairn was (with golf course adjacent). This is a very quiet area. So there is nothing to worry about folks.

One of my uncles was a RAAF WO who lived at the Fairbairn married quarters back in the 70’s. It was a a terrific spot, and strangely, I don’t recall any aircraft noise when we visited out there. If someone built houses or apartments there I might consider buying.

I served at RAAF Fairbairn for about seven years until 1990 although I lived off base.
Since 5SQN was a training outfit, Hueys night flying would have been a source of noise after hours.
One actually came back with a bullet hole from one said sortie so someone must have been pissed.

At 34 SQN, the BAC-111s were as loud as Pigs however, there were only two of those and the engine run up area (for maintenance purposes) is at the northern end of the runway. The HS748 APU was insanely loud also but rarely used at home base.
The main source of noise for residents at the base would have been the Hobart power carts at all hours. I used to hear them in Queanbeyan when the wind was from the airport.

MERC600 said :

Well I flew into Adelaide recently. Nuthin but houses for about 10 minutes before we landed, in fact houses right up to the perimeter fence ( have a squiz at google earth ). How do they get on ? I’m not sure if I would want to live there, ( in fact anywhere in Adelaide) but tens of thousands do live under the flight path…Tralee is miles away from the fence and those low landing/takeing off planes… just sayin’ is all..

Adelaide is funny isn’t it – you can literally wave at people in their backyards. I also visited a friend there who lived in one of those houses and you pretty much had to stop your conversation when a plane came in. Not ideal, but I guess you’d get used to it. It was the trade off for getting (I assume) a cheaper house.

cranky said :

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I have worked in Hume for over 20 years. I concur with the above comment, and consider the ‘noise’ to be non existent. ALL aircraft landing from the east come in over Jerrabomberra. The President of the JRA (I think) has stated that this traffic does not cause any problems for residents. Jerra is a couple of K’s north of Tralee, so where this ‘noise’ is going to suddenly come from is a mystery. I would classify landing aircraft noise as being less than the sound of traffic on the Monaro Highway.

Aircraft taking off to the south-east (on the about 1 day in 10 when we have a south-easterly wind blowing), are very high by the time they are over Hume/Tralee. Yes, they can be heard (louder than landing aircraft), but for very short periods of time.

I invite any interested party to visit Sheppard St, Hume, to hear for themselves. Sit outside the takeaway with a cup of coffee, and strain your ears.

I have no interest in this subject other than disabusing the untruths emanating from the Snow/Byron camp.

Ignoring the fact that the issue is future growth and consequent noise, I would genuinely like to know what reason there is for Byron and Snow to lie to try to stop the development?

When you consider just how many aircraft accidents occur on takeoff or landing within 5kms of an airport, there is no way in the world you would ever get me living on a flightpath that close.

Can someone correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but Tralee will be part of QBN/NSW won’t it? And the airport is here in the A.C.T so residents complaining of noise in Tralee will have no-one to complain to. The government here doesn’t have to worry about what residents of a NSW town have to say, so won’t it merely be a case of “tough titties, you messed your bed now lay in it” rather than flight curfews or increased aircraft traffic over Canberra’s northern suburbs?

bundah said :

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

I tried with Slim Dusty’s i love to have a beer with Duncan but was buggered with the chorus so i substituted this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtA-FpTZOQw

Thanks for that. I love it when people take the piss… 🙂

cranky said :

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I have worked in Hume for over 20 years. I concur with the above comment, and consider the ‘noise’ to be non existent. ALL aircraft landing from the east come in over Jerrabomberra. The President of the JRA (I think) has stated that this traffic does not cause any problems for residents. Jerra is a couple of K’s north of Tralee, so where this ‘noise’ is going to suddenly come from is a mystery. I would classify landing aircraft noise as being less than the sound of traffic on the Monaro Highway.

Aircraft taking off to the south-east (on the about 1 day in 10 when we have a south-easterly wind blowing), are very high by the time they are over Hume/Tralee. Yes, they can be heard (louder than landing aircraft), but for very short periods of time.

I invite any interested party to visit Sheppard St, Hume, to hear for themselves. Sit outside the takeaway with a cup of coffee, and strain your ears.

I have no interest in this subject other than disabusing the untruths emanating from the Snow/Byron camp.

Untruths?

Mate, its not about what’s flying over your head NOW at Hume, its what will be in 10 or 20 or 50 years. Bigger populations mean busier airports & bigger planes, and even though the current noise is “non existant” to your ears during the day, I will my house that the noise in the evening even in just a decade will be most certainly wont be non existant.

It’s short-sighted and greedy, plain and simple.

We’ve missed a chance at FINALLY getting an airport plan setup for the future, unique to anywhere else in Australia (everyone else fell for the same cash grab as well), but nope…. money talks and bull feaces takes a stroll.

dungfungus said :

I expect blocks of residential units will soon be constructed in the old housing estate where RAAF Fairbairn was (with golf course adjacent). This is a very quiet area. So there is nothing to worry about folks.

One of my uncles was a RAAF WO who lived at the Fairbairn married quarters back in the 70’s. It was a a terrific spot, and strangely, I don’t recall any aircraft noise when we visited out there. If someone built houses or apartments there I might consider buying.

Pork Hunt said :

Masquara said :

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

The plan is to share the noise burden across Canberra.

How noise sharing will occur is a mystery to me.

How about giant Tannoys in every suburb that relay jet noise in rotation?

grunge_hippy said :

I’d like to know how many people in Jerra complain at the moment because they are under the flight path. Never heard anything about that when they built it did we? We were at the Jerra school fete a few weekends back and they were loud but not unbearable. Its hardly like we get 747’s screaming in.

I would imagine people potentially buying in tralee are well aware of the potential drawbacks… well if they aren’t, they will be now!

Exactly. It’s like a storm in one of those little plastic cups they give you on a plane for your little softdrink.

grunge_hippy said :

I’d like to know how many people in Jerra complain at the moment because they are under the flight path. Never heard anything about that when they built it did we? We were at the Jerra school fete a few weekends back and they were loud but not unbearable. Its hardly like we get 747’s screaming in.

I would imagine people potentially buying in tralee are well aware of the potential drawbacks… well if they aren’t, they will be now!

You could phone the noise complaint line 1300 302 240 at Air Services Australia and ask them. I don’t believe they would get many complaints.
Haven’t heard any comment from our new ACT minority Labor Government. They are probably waiting for the Green solar powered/wind assisted dictator to announce that barrage balloons be placed in those parts of Canberra where the “noise to be shared” is going to be.
The ACT Government must be lamenting they didn’t buy the Canberra Airport lease instead of building the futsal slab. The airport precinct is now a land bank with a runway in the middle with the Federal Government collecting the rent. I guess that the airport does not pay any rates or land taxes to the Territory either. Damn!

Pork Hunt said :

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

I tried with Slim Dusty’s i love to have a beer with Duncan but was buggered with the chorus so i substituted this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtA-FpTZOQw

Masquara said :

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

The plan is to share the noise burden across Canberra.

Aircraft have approach and departure paths that are directly related to the orientation of the runway. Aircraft using only runway available for larger aircraft (17/35) will fly over the Majura Valley or Jerra and Hume as they do now.
How noise sharing will occur is a mystery to me.

New airport somewhere else is the answer IMO.

grunge_hippy5:51 pm 06 Nov 12

I’d like to know how many people in Jerra complain at the moment because they are under the flight path. Never heard anything about that when they built it did we? We were at the Jerra school fete a few weekends back and they were loud but not unbearable. Its hardly like we get 747’s screaming in.

I would imagine people potentially buying in tralee are well aware of the potential drawbacks… well if they aren’t, they will be now!

Masquara said :

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

The plan is to share the noise burden across Canberra.

We already share the gaol, the new industrial estate and coast traffic, why not aircraft noise also?

poetix said :

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Sung to the tune of “The road to Gundagai”, I imagined but the chorus won’t fit…

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I have worked in Hume for over 20 years. I concur with the above comment, and consider the ‘noise’ to be non existent. ALL aircraft landing from the east come in over Jerrabomberra. The President of the JRA (I think) has stated that this traffic does not cause any problems for residents. Jerra is a couple of K’s north of Tralee, so where this ‘noise’ is going to suddenly come from is a mystery. I would classify landing aircraft noise as being less than the sound of traffic on the Monaro Highway.

Aircraft taking off to the south-east (on the about 1 day in 10 when we have a south-easterly wind blowing), are very high by the time they are over Hume/Tralee. Yes, they can be heard (louder than landing aircraft), but for very short periods of time.

I invite any interested party to visit Sheppard St, Hume, to hear for themselves. Sit outside the takeaway with a cup of coffee, and strain your ears.

I have no interest in this subject other than disabusing the untruths emanating from the Snow/Byron camp.

As aired on 666 today, Sydney allowed new developments under the flight path … houses were cheap … then the residents campaigned to have flight noise shared around … noise was shared around … and the cheap houses leapt in value. Not sure how that might apply to Tralee, but perhaps it would.

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

The plan is to share the noise burden across Canberra.

dungfungus said :

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

There is no evidence that Canberra Airport (fornerly known as Canberra International Airport) will get busier. In fact, passenger numbers peaked a few years ago and now they are in decline. The 24/7 freight hub concept is unlikely to happen either. I expect blocks of residential units will soon be constructed in the old housing estate where RAAF Fairbairn was (with golf course adjacent). This is a very quiet area. So there is nothing to worry about folks.
Having said that I must congratulate the Snow family and Stephen Byron for creating a great enterprise. It shows what can be achieved when there is no interference from the ACT Government.

Have often wondered when Snow would get around to whacking up residential units in his fiefdom. Mightn’t be to bad. Have stopped before at the Melbourne airport Holliday Inn, and it was quiet enuff; should have been the windows were an inch thick, but Fairbairn might be OK. Be good security , hey.

A stupid place to build a community. Only because even if Sydney doesn’t use Canberra as a second airport. Canberra’s population will grow and there will probably be international flights in the future. There are people who love to complain and people will buy at Tralee just for the sole purpose of having something to complain about.

I love to go a-wandering,
With planes along their track,
And as I go, I always take,
A law-suit in my pack.

Chorus:
Tra-lala, Tra-lalee
Tra-lala
Tra-lalee-lee-lee-lee-lee-lee
Tra-lala Tra-lalee.
A law suit in my pack.

Roundhead89 said :

It looks like we might have a Harry Seidler scenario evolving. Seidler was a notorious architect/property developer in Sydney who for years wanted to build apartments on the prime Luna Park site. The State government kept knocking him back so when a block of land next to Luna Park became available he built luxury apartments, took up residency in the penthouse and took Luna Park to court arguing that it should be shut down because the noise from the big dipper was disturbing his sleep.

The court found that the noise was excessive and as a compromise directed that the big dipper be closed down. He launched further legal proceedings against Luna Park but died before the case came to trial.

However, to be totally irrelevant for once, I doubt that the architecture of South Tralee will be Seidleresque, somehow.

It looks like we might have a Harry Seidler scenario evolving. Seidler was a notorious architect/property developer in Sydney who for years wanted to build apartments on the prime Luna Park site. The State government kept knocking him back so when a block of land next to Luna Park became available he built luxury apartments, took up residency in the penthouse and took Luna Park to court arguing that it should be shut down because the noise from the big dipper was disturbing his sleep.

The court found that the noise was excessive and as a compromise directed that the big dipper be closed down. He launched further legal proceedings against Luna Park but died before the case came to trial.

Mr Gillespie said :

To those calling for more airport curfews, QUIT YOUR WHINGEING or f*** off to where there are no flight paths. I am sick of hearing about delayed flights having to be postponed to the next day due to airport curfews banning flights at certain hours of the day, and WHY do flight paths have to be changed to pander to these NIMBYs??

that’d be ‘nombys’, wouldn’t it? not over my back yard..?

This is a terrible decision.

I’m not a fan of the Snow/Byron metropolis but given its current size and state I can see benefits to the region from its expansion. Apart from potentially adversely affecting the air corridor and future increases in flights I can’t see what they have to gain from objecting to the Tralee proposal.

However, it is easy to see the vested interest that the NSW Gov’t, QCC and VBC have in progressing Tralee which makes it difficult to believe anything that they say about Tralee not affecting future air traffic.

As for getting home owners to agree to future aircraft noise, this is a naive idea. Home owners have short memories, it does nothing for subsequent owners of these properties and as their voting numbers increase, Governments will be driven to appease them. If Jerrabomberra residents support Tralee, perhaps they should sign an agreement also that any increased traffic goes directly over them….

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:46 pm 06 Nov 12

Mr Gillespie said :

To those calling for more airport curfews, QUIT YOUR WHINGEING or f*** off to where there are no flight paths. I am sick of hearing about delayed flights having to be postponed to the next day due to airport curfews banning flights at certain hours of the day, and WHY do flight paths have to be changed to pander to these NIMBYs??

Silence, quarter wit. Let the grown ups discuss.

And just to add to the current topic, I will just point out the joys of living in Weston creek!

Mr Gillespie3:44 pm 06 Nov 12

Part of the bigger picture Pork Hunt (#20). More houses under flight paths = increased risk of governments forcing airports to impose curfews.

Mr Gillespie said :

To those calling for more airport curfews, QUIT YOUR WHINGEING or f*** off to where there are no flight paths. I am sick of hearing about delayed flights having to be postponed to the next day due to airport curfews banning flights at certain hours of the day, and WHY do flight paths have to be changed to pander to these NIMBYs??

Just did a quick count and zero people in this post were calling for more airport curfews.

Mr Gillespie2:48 pm 06 Nov 12

To those calling for more airport curfews, QUIT YOUR WHINGEING or f*** off to where there are no flight paths. I am sick of hearing about delayed flights having to be postponed to the next day due to airport curfews banning flights at certain hours of the day, and WHY do flight paths have to be changed to pander to these NIMBYs??

dungfungus said :

It shows what can be achieved when there is no interference from the ACT Government.

It certainly does.

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

There is no evidence that Canberra Airport (fornerly known as Canberra International Airport) will get busier. In fact, passenger numbers peaked a few years ago and now they are in decline. The 24/7 freight hub concept is unlikely to happen either. I expect blocks of residential units will soon be constructed in the old housing estate where RAAF Fairbairn was (with golf course adjacent). This is a very quiet area. So there is nothing to worry about folks.
Having said that I must congratulate the Snow family and Stephen Byron for creating a great enterprise. It shows what can be achieved when there is no interference from the ACT Government.

watto23 said :

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

Thats not the issue. Its about preserving the corridor, so more noise can be added to it.
And putting a high school across from Hume is another bad idea, I’m sure childrens education will be used at some point to divert planes as well. I’m sure the developer has some deep pockets to help aid decision making in the council…..

Well I flew into Adelaide recently. Nuthin but houses for about 10 minutes before we landed, in fact houses right up to the perimeter fence ( have a squiz at google earth ). How do they get on ? I’m not sure if I would want to live there, ( in fact anywhere in Adelaide) but tens of thousands do live under the flight path…Tralee is miles away from the fence and those low landing/takeing off planes… just sayin’ is all..

Gungahlin Al said :

This is how the next 10 years will play out:

Land titles will be written with warnings about noise. But people will buy in and start complaining in very short order. The astute among them will start waging smart campaigns to have the “unreasonable” noise focus shared with other surrounding areas. Eventually they’ll wear people down – just as the cashed-up residents of Twin Waters did under the Sunshine Coast Airport approach.

Jerra residents – despite their illogical support for this outcome – will end up wearing more of the noise. The irony of that will be bitter-sweet. Then so will Tuggers and Woden folk. And eventually the Airport will start directing more and more traffic for both approach and departure to the north, as they already do with all late flights. Meaning we’ll cop more of it – Watson, Hackett, all the northern Gungahlin suburbs – Harrison, Kenny, Forde, Bonner, Casey, Amaroo, Throsby.

Also consider that airports are a Federal responsibility, and Tralee and Jerrabomberra are in a marginal Federal electorate while the ACT electorates are safe.

As has been pointed out in another thread, ACT has not been a good neighbour to Queanbeyan in recent times, so I’m not surprised this has happened. Noise will be shared, and ACT has no-one but themselves to blame.

Gungahlin Al said :

The following comments are based on my experience on the management committee of the Sunshine Coast Airport, surrounded by residential development, including development by dint of old planning court decisions that were irreversible. And from being the Councillor for said electorate, dealing with unending noise complaints:

Dumb. Just dumb.

I don’t for a moment support the Snows’ relentless drive for increased night-time flights and freight traffic. But houses around airports is stupid in anyone’s language. This is a triumph of developer greed, with deep pockets and stacks of patience, over sensible infrastructure and town planning.

This is how the next 10 years will play out:

Land titles will be written with warnings about noise. But people will buy in and start complaining in very short order. The astute among them will start waging smart campaigns to have the “unreasonable” noise focus shared with other surrounding areas. Eventually they’ll wear people down – just as the cashed-up residents of Twin Waters did under the Sunshine Coast Airport approach.

Jerra residents – despite their illogical support for this outcome – will end up wearing more of the noise. The irony of that will be bitter-sweet. Then so will Tuggers and Woden folk. And eventually the Airport will start directing more and more traffic for both approach and departure to the north, as they already do with all late flights. Meaning we’ll cop more of it – Watson, Hackett, all the northern Gungahlin suburbs – Harrison, Kenny, Forde, Bonner, Casey, Amaroo, Throsby.

And I point out it couldn’t have happened if the ACT border more logically encompassed the entire Capital geographic/social/economic catchment (i.e. Queanbeyan, Bungendore, Murrumbateman, Yass).

Stupid small town councillors who think any growth is good. People with very near horizons. Sheesh.

YAY AL
I finally agree with you.

I’d love the feds to just move the boarder.

Follow the money.
You can’t stop (developer) greed and councillors taking bribes for ‘the good of the community’, because never-ending growth is the only option, apparently. How can anyone in their right mind decide that location is the best for a suburb? Seriously.
Next a developer will demand (with associated ‘lobbying’) to build a suburb next to the sewerage works and be shocked when the smell strips paint off the house walls. The residents will then want the sewerage plant closed.
It’s a crazy world. Whatever….

tell ’em they’re dreamin’…

Gungahlin Al11:43 am 06 Nov 12

The following comments are based on my experience on the management committee of the Sunshine Coast Airport, surrounded by residential development, including development by dint of old planning court decisions that were irreversible. And from being the Councillor for said electorate, dealing with unending noise complaints:

Dumb. Just dumb.

I don’t for a moment support the Snows’ relentless drive for increased night-time flights and freight traffic. But houses around airports is stupid in anyone’s language. This is a triumph of developer greed, with deep pockets and stacks of patience, over sensible infrastructure and town planning.

This is how the next 10 years will play out:

Land titles will be written with warnings about noise. But people will buy in and start complaining in very short order. The astute among them will start waging smart campaigns to have the “unreasonable” noise focus shared with other surrounding areas. Eventually they’ll wear people down – just as the cashed-up residents of Twin Waters did under the Sunshine Coast Airport approach.

Jerra residents – despite their illogical support for this outcome – will end up wearing more of the noise. The irony of that will be bitter-sweet. Then so will Tuggers and Woden folk. And eventually the Airport will start directing more and more traffic for both approach and departure to the north, as they already do with all late flights. Meaning we’ll cop more of it – Watson, Hackett, all the northern Gungahlin suburbs – Harrison, Kenny, Forde, Bonner, Casey, Amaroo, Throsby.

And I point out it couldn’t have happened if the ACT border more logically encompassed the entire Capital geographic/social/economic catchment (i.e. Queanbeyan, Bungendore, Murrumbateman, Yass).

Stupid small town councillors who think any growth is good. People with very near horizons. Sheesh.

Deref said :

Damned if I can decide who I dislike more – Terry Snow or Bob Winnell.

I’m in the same quandary. I don’t think this should go ahead, but I also don’t like the thought of Canberra being a 24/7 transport hub. There is no doubt that, over time, aircraft noise will be spread much wider.

MERC600 said :

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

Thats not the issue. Its about preserving the corridor, so more noise can be added to it.
And putting a high school across from Hume is another bad idea, I’m sure childrens education will be used at some point to divert planes as well. I’m sure the developer has some deep pockets to help aid decision making in the council…..

The project has also achieved strong support from Queanbeyan Council’s Mayor Tim Overall, all nine other Councillors…

This decision just goes to show that you don’t need a brain to get electerd at any level of government.

pepmeup said :

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

… and may your children grow up sucking on the fumes of 747s

Damned if I can decide who I dislike more – Terry Snow or Bob Winnell.

Well I used to work at Hume. Used to have lunch outside and watch the planes a comin’ and a goin’. I didn’t think there was all that much noise.

I’m sure all this publicity is jut driving up the land price, NOT.

So for all those who buy at Tralee, you are warned now before hand that you will be living under a flight path, that the 2 km corridor is not wide enough to stop all sound. So there will be no excuse for any complaining once you live there and have planes flying over head. Canberra Airport will only get busier this will effect you and the future value of your house.

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