21 September 2007

Speed camera causes accident?

| rtsnoz
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I will start by making it clear that I do not know anything about this incident. It is simply a suggestion.

Heading south on the Tuggeranong parkway tonight at about 5:20 traffic was slow, VERY slow. Turns out, police had closed the section of the parkway which heads under the cotter road, co-incidentally also where a (revenue raising & dangerous in my oppinion) speed camera is placed.

Is it known why the road was closed in this section? I presume it was due to some kind of car accident – caused by somebody hitting the breaks upon reaching the speed camera?

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shadow boxer said :

There was a good 4-5 car rear ender heading onto the Barton Highway from Gungahlin this morning. Some people just have no idea.

They had pushed the cars off but about 8 people were standing around watching cars mount the gutter to get around ther pile of broken plastic and lens caps while enjoying the site of traffic backing up all the way back to the golf club.

Seriously it would have taken 30 seconds for them to walk out there and kick the rubbish into the gutter.

Meh, drive over it. I love seeing guys in 4WDs, that they kit out with all the latest offroad gear but obviously never go offroad, with massive tyres drive around a bit of plastic or glass. The tyres are designed to handle a bit of glass or plastic it on most cars.

Speed/safety cameras are only the begining Canberra, wait until the tolls are implemented on these roads, then you’ll see some real accidents – cars not having etags being fined, cars with etags being fined, cars on roads without tolls being fined – a whole new beautiful world of kaos is coming Canberra.

shadow boxer9:09 am 28 Jul 11

There was a good 4-5 car rear ender heading onto the Barton Highway from Gungahlin this morning. Some people just have no idea.

They had pushed the cars off but about 8 people were standing around watching cars mount the gutter to get around ther pile of broken plastic and lens caps while enjoying the site of traffic backing up all the way back to the golf club.

Seriously it would have taken 30 seconds for them to walk out there and kick the rubbish into the gutter.

Captain RAAF said :

Its also probably the best road to watch people failing to keep left unless overtaking.

It is also the best road to watch people failing to understand that even while overtaking you have to stick to the speed limit.

Innovation said :

Speaking of which, I read the Captain’s post at #59 and, just for a second, I thought he might be advocating a slower speed limit at late afternoon/sunset.

Variable speed limits, set to the actual road and driving conditions? Unlikely in the ACT.

Tooks said :

This one time, I was driving down the parkway and a speed camera actually stepped out onto the road, nearly causing an accident. Ever since, I’ve always been extra cautious when driving past speed cameras, just in case they cause an accident.

+1 – when I saw this heading it reminded me of the saying “Guns don’t kill people……”

Speaking of which, I read the Captain’s post at #59 and, just for a second, I thought he might be advocating a slower speed limit at late afternoon/sunset.

Apparently I don’t refuse to call it an accident 🙂

I don’t go down that way often, so forgive me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that a permanent speed camera with giant signs warning people of its presence. How on Earth can anyone see these type of cameras as revenue raisers? They are not covert. They are very clearly signed for a long way before hand and at the camera’s spot. They are clearly there to make sure that people drive through the spot at the speed limit. Anyone who claims otherwise is a moron.

Also, anyone who has a car crash (I refuse to call it an accident) “as a result” of the speed camera is a moron. In a crash like this you have moron number one in the front car sitting well above the speed limit until the very last minute when they slam on their brakes, clearly oblivious to moron number two behind them, also speeding, but this time with the added thrill of having his nose six inches up moron number one’s arsehole.

An accident like this is no-one’s fault but the two morons involved. To blame it on a camera that is clearly signposted is simply a case of these morons and their sympathisers to accept the consequences of their dangerous driving.

chewy14 said :

Timeeh yep,
i’ve seen many accidents at that exact spot.
Although not actually physically caused by the speed camera it definitely plays it’s part.
Usual scenario:
– Dribbler 1 and Dribbler 2 speeding down to the bottom of the hill on Parkway
– Dribbler 1 hits the anchors just before speed camera
– Dribbler 2 is tailgating and/or not paying attention to Dribbler 1
– Dribbler 2 rear ends Dribbler 1.
– Dribblers 3,4,5 etc do the same.

End Result – Lots of saliva all over the road

I’d like to see a study done on accident rates on this particular part of road for the last couple of years but I don’t think the government wants to be made to look silly if it’s actually increased.

It’s also quite easy to see by a fair portion of canberra drivers that they dont actually study the road in front of them, they’re fixated on the car in front of them. And it’s not just people doing over the posted limit that jam on the brakes approaching, you’ll see people going under the limit and still jamming their brakes on! In reality there’s very little reason you should need to brake at all on the parkway or the M5 for instance if you’re scanning the road ahead of you further than 1 car ahead (of course unless traffic has suddenly stopped).

If people didnt speed, or tailgate, then these accidents wouldn’t happen. imo anyone who causes an accident in that situation need to surrender their license.

shauno said :

“The whole revenue raising thing is a joke as well. They either put in speed cameras and raise it that way or slug you an extra levy in your rates. Personally I prefer speed cameras as I don’t pay that levy.”

I don’t mind paying revenue some how. But and this is the thing that pisses me and a lot of people off. Its the blatant bullshit that the government spins relating these speed cameras to safety. Its utter crap and any one with half a brain can see that positioning these cameras on straight double lane roads nowhere near proven black spots is revenue raising, why don’t they just come out and say it.

To add insult to injury, the revenue raised from speed cameras which is meant to be spent on safety programs is then spent on more speed cameras rather than spending the money on something like improving driver standards through compulsory government subsidised driver training programs.

The other issue is that governments have a conflict of interest, mainly because cameras generate revenue yet are meant to increase safety by preventing speeding. If cameras were doing their job, then revenue should be decreasing as less people should be speeding. If not, then the cameras obviously aren’t working.

thanks Chewy, glad it’s not just me 🙂 I assume the ones that don’t see it are also the ones causing the accidents and/or involved in them…. such as mr watson and sydney 🙂

haha, NSW just axed a bunch of speed camera’s over the fact they do nothing and just raise revenue.

Anyone have that big study from England that showed that Speed Camera’s actually increase the amount of traffic incident’s along roads they are posted? if memory serves me correctly for every speed Camera there is something like a 11% increase in incidents.

timeeh said :

Captain RAAF said :

The rising sun also causes the lesser skilled drivers to hit the picks, shield their eyes and reach for the panic button. The net result is a series of close calls, shunts and increased frustration for about 5km of drivers as the Parkway slows to walking pace.

Me personally, I adopt the ‘Days of Thunder’ strategy of droppin’ the hammer and pushing on through before the sheep begin to disappear up eachothers arses.

Its also probably the best road to watch people failing to keep left unless overtaking.

+100 Apparently canberrans don’t seem to understand the whole “Keep left unless overtaking” or they can’t read, 50/50.

Cue the “but it’s not illegal crowd”…

Timeeh yep,
i’ve seen many accidents at that exact spot.
Although not actually physically caused by the speed camera it definitely plays it’s part.
Usual scenario:
– Dribbler 1 and Dribbler 2 speeding down to the bottom of the hill on Parkway
– Dribbler 1 hits the anchors just before speed camera
– Dribbler 2 is tailgating and/or not paying attention to Dribbler 1
– Dribbler 2 rear ends Dribbler 1.
– Dribblers 3,4,5 etc do the same.

End Result – Lots of saliva all over the road

I’d like to see a study done on accident rates on this particular part of road for the last couple of years but I don’t think the government wants to be made to look silly if it’s actually increased.

Captain RAAF said :

The rising sun also causes the lesser skilled drivers to hit the picks, shield their eyes and reach for the panic button. The net result is a series of close calls, shunts and increased frustration for about 5km of drivers as the Parkway slows to walking pace.

Me personally, I adopt the ‘Days of Thunder’ strategy of droppin’ the hammer and pushing on through before the sheep begin to disappear up eachothers arses.

Its also probably the best road to watch people failing to keep left unless overtaking.

+100 Apparently canberrans don’t seem to understand the whole “Keep left unless overtaking” or they can’t read, 50/50.

Captain RAAF3:59 pm 27 Jul 11

The rising sun also causes the lesser skilled drivers to hit the picks, shield their eyes and reach for the panic button. The net result is a series of close calls, shunts and increased frustration for about 5km of drivers as the Parkway slows to walking pace.

Me personally, I adopt the ‘Days of Thunder’ strategy of droppin’ the hammer and pushing on through before the sheep begin to disappear up eachothers arses.

Its also probably the best road to watch people failing to keep left unless overtaking.

Tooks said :

This one time, I was driving down the parkway and a speed camera actually stepped out onto the road, nearly causing an accident. Ever since, I’ve always been extra cautious when driving past speed cameras, just in case they cause an accident.

I glad you said that, must mean that youre the culprit causing these accident. Takes the blame off me 🙂

Classified said :

NSW has decided to turn off speed cameras that aren’t improving road safety. At this point, 38 cameras have been identified.

http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-traffic/speed-cameras-minister-orders-38-to-be-switched-off-20110727-1hzcz.html

thats actually what set me off. looks like i’m not alone 🙂

I just figured it is probably easier to get rid of the camera rather than trying to remove the spechal canberra drivers off our roads. And yes it probabaly is me causing the accidents, cause damn i see alot of them.

NSW has decided to turn off speed cameras that aren’t improving road safety. At this point, 38 cameras have been identified.

http://smh.drive.com.au/roads-and-traffic/speed-cameras-minister-orders-38-to-be-switched-off-20110727-1hzcz.html

Maybe a Kangaroo …

colourful sydney racing identity said :

You were there for each of those crashes?! I retract my previous statement: it IS you!

Gold!

(It should’ve read, I *repeat* my statement or something – I am a bit of a zombie today. Queen of sarcasm though. lol)

colourful sydney racing identity3:20 pm 27 Jul 11

Watson said :

timeeh said :

In EXACTLY the same spot… Im not just talking about the inital one that started this thread either… I have at least 4 caught on my camera and thats not including the one this morning OR the ones I didn’t get on camera….

You were there for each of those crashes?! I retract my previous statement: it IS you!

Gold!

taking photos…. i was way to busy putting on my lipstick, brushing my hair and drinking my morning Jack to be able to take any photos… P.S. getting it camera means i can then share the joy once i get to work : )

This one time, I was driving down the parkway and a speed camera actually stepped out onto the road, nearly causing an accident. Ever since, I’ve always been extra cautious when driving past speed cameras, just in case they cause an accident.

timeeh said :

In EXACTLY the same spot… Im not just talking about the inital one that started this thread either… I have at least 4 caught on my camera and thats not including the one this morning OR the ones I didn’t get on camera….

You were there for each of those crashes?! I retract my previous statement: it IS you!

colourful sydney racing identity2:54 pm 27 Jul 11

timeeh said :

In EXACTLY the same spot… Im not just talking about the inital one that started this thread either… I have at least 4 caught on my camera and thats not including the one this morning OR the ones I didn’t get on camera….

maybe you should watch the road rather than taking photos of accidents?

In EXACTLY the same spot… Im not just talking about the inital one that started this thread either… I have at least 4 caught on my camera and thats not including the one this morning OR the ones I didn’t get on camera….

timeeh said :

Is it just me or should this camera be removed??? Again this morning there was another crash at the fixed speed camera….(5 cars by the look of it) How long until the govt stop with the “it’s not for revenue rasing” rubbish and get rid of them, as the ones on the parkway (in particular) are doing more harm then good. The amount of crashes I have seen there in the last 3 years is amazing and there all at exactly the same spot, right near the camera. Is it just me or does everybody else see it also?

It is just you.

colourful sydney racing identity2:36 pm 27 Jul 11

timeeh said :

Is it just me or should this camera be removed??? Again this morning there was another crash at the fixed speed camera….(5 cars by the look of it) How long until the govt stop with the “it’s not for revenue rasing” rubbish and get rid of them, as the ones on the parkway (in particular) are doing more harm then good. The amount of crashes I have seen there in the last 3 years is amazing and there all at exactly the same spot, right near the camera. Is it just me or does everybody else see it also?

Two accidents in four years? Yes, it must be the speed camera to blame – certainly not bad drivers…

Is it just me or should this camera be removed??? Again this morning there was another crash at the fixed speed camera….(5 cars by the look of it) How long until the govt stop with the “it’s not for revenue rasing” rubbish and get rid of them, as the ones on the parkway (in particular) are doing more harm then good. The amount of crashes I have seen there in the last 3 years is amazing and there all at exactly the same spot, right near the camera. Is it just me or does everybody else see it also?

The problem with speed cameras is they don’t stop people speeding. Caltrops stop people speeding. The solution is obvious – the fine is equivalent to the replacement value of 4 slashed tyres anyway.

whatever. watch your speedo or the car in front, your call.

Things are always funny when you look back on them 🙂

That does sound like a seriously interesting standoff Thumper. Not one i’d like to have!

Special G, When you say you it isn’t revenue raising you really need to consider the exact placement of some of these cameras. On the parkway, the current camera is placed at the bottom of a hill. Designed to catch anybody accelerating to get up the hill, and those coming down the hill going slightly quicker. This is in no means a dangerous place – until extra dangers are placed – such as speed cameras. Instead of concentrating on driving, people are watching their speedos and hitting the breaks to slow down. The car infront is also looking at their speedo, and therefore doesn’t know that the incompetent driver infront has decided to hit their breaks because their speedo is sitting on 100km/h.

Time over distance cameras haven’t been installed for that simple reason. Everyone would get angry, and noone would have valid licences.

Why come out and say revenue raising when you can blatantly hide behind safety.
At least they haven’t yet installed time over distance speed cameras along the parkway. They wouldn’t know what to do with all the cash and no one in the ACT would have a valid licence.

el ......VNBerlinaV86:00 pm 23 Sep 07

Actually, I think I’ve somewhat changed my mind.

Some of you probably remember me harping on previously about how inattentive drivers are the ones that should be getting booked and fined.

Well, considering how easy these cameras are to spot, anyone that gets done by them clearly isn’t paying much attention to what’s going on around them and deserves everything they get. Especially in charge of a vehicle at 100Km/h.

“The whole revenue raising thing is a joke as well. They either put in speed cameras and raise it that way or slug you an extra levy in your rates. Personally I prefer speed cameras as I don’t pay that levy.”

I don’t mind paying revenue some how. But and this is the thing that pisses me and a lot of people off. Its the blatant bullshit that the government spins relating these speed cameras to safety. Its utter crap and any one with half a brain can see that positioning these cameras on straight double lane roads nowhere near proven black spots is revenue raising, why don’t they just come out and say it.

The bad, revenue raising PR message must have got through to Hopeless & Co.

They have now moved the signs they hid the cameras behind on the Monaro Highway, and have installed a few warning signs.
The warning signs near the Hindmarsh Drive overpass were installed and then removed two or three days later, as the cameras have yet to be installed at that location.

Good point Kramer.

I’m pretty sure at 50m from an intersection you’re not jaywalking, just crossing the road. Someone can correct me on the distance here, in Vic it’s 20m.

the same comments about people whinging about speed cameras. Its a voluntary tax people. The speed limits are sign posted. If you go faster then pay the tax.

I drove past the Parkway/Cotter road camera the other day. It has 2 signs with ample space to safely check your speed leading up to it.

The whole revenue raising thing is a joke as well. They either put in speed cameras and raise it that way or slug you an extra levy in your rates. Personally I prefer speed cameras as I don’t pay that levy.

You’d have to seriously fail the attitude test to get done for J walking in Canberra

Why is it that the ACT speed cameras (especially the new ones) are so poorly sign posted, whereas the NSW speed cameras give you about 5 large warning signs over 500 meters before the camera? Tell me this isn’t revenue raising – if they realy want you to slow down then put up the big freaking warning signs!

I’ve J-walked infront of cop cars plenty of times in Civic and nothing has come of it.

el ......VNBerlinaV88:12 pm 22 Sep 07

They certainly do exist in the ACT, Greg. A whole shitload of people running across Northbourne Ave against the lights got done for it in the days following an incident involving an elderly gent being run over and killed near the Jolimont centre.

“J-walking pedestrians that were too lazy to walk the extra 50m to the traffic lights that were especially installed for them.”

What a stupid comment, if people can manage to cross a road without getting hit, and without having traffic stop at a crossing, then good on them for doing so.

Any chance you’re one of those annoying people who hit the crossing button instinctively when you reach lights, even if there is little traffic around?

I believe people should be able to decide where to cross themselves, if not confident they can find a crossing. There is no ne
ed to nanny people in this regard. I certainly hope jaywalking laws do not exist in the ACT.

Felix the Cat5:43 pm 22 Sep 07

Speaking of revenue rai$ing and greed cameras, I was travelling along Adelaide Ave heading towards Civic from Woden this morning and I saw a car parked on the (left) side of the road just past the Novar/Kent St overpass. I could see a person or people near it but couldn’t work out what wqs going on. As I got closer I saw it was a late 80’s model Commodore (possibly broken down or run out of petrol) with a cop car parked in front of it facing the oncoming traffic and two uniformed cops standing in between the car both with speed cameras aimed at the oncoming traffic. You couldn’t see the cops until you were about 100m away because they were partly hidden by the parked Commodore. Would serve them right if someone panicked and locked up their brakes and ploughed into the Commodore and pinned them between it and their illegally parked patrol car.

There was no other point to their exercise on this straight, smooth bit of road with fine weather and 100% visibility, except to raise revenue.

They should of been a few more kms down the road on Commonwealth Ave near Floriade and book some of the motorists that were doing 80km/h through the 40km/h zone and also book some of the J-walking pedestrians that were too lazy to walk the extra 50m to the traffic lights that were especially installed for them.

Pretty sure I wasn’t caught so it’s not sour grapes on my part, just having a rant about the greed cameras.

Sepi – anyone that slams on the brakes for a bird flying out, or SNEEZING (?? FFS!) should have their licence revoked immediately.

Totally agree. Years ago my sister had a car accident on the parkway because the car infront of her slammed their foot on the breaks because the car in front of said person… hit a bird. She then GOT OUT OF HER CAR. Causing my sister and several other people to hit the guard rail instead of her.

If your out there.. YOUR A STUPID STUPID PERSON.

When they’re doing the speed limit, or less, and slam on the brakes for the speed camera, yes, they’re an idiot.

Whereas someone who slams on the brakes for a speedcamera is of course not at fault in any way, it is all the govt to blame….

el ......VNBerlinaV89:04 am 22 Sep 07

Sepi – anyone that slams on the brakes for a bird flying out, or SNEEZING (?? FFS!) should have their licence revoked immediately.

“illeligent”? If you are saying intelligent and green in the same sentence I assume you are demonstrating an oxymoron.

Apparently 3 car… with a 4wd on its roof. Had a mate go past it.

Issue to the run-up of the election:
What issues? Labor will win by a landslide unless the illeligent voter of Canberra votes Greens.

There was a great UK website on Riotact a while back that showed how to burn a camera with an old tyre and petrol, the pictures were quite soothing…

Woody Mann-Caruso10:02 pm 21 Sep 07

I will start by making it clear that I do not know anything about this incident. It is simply a suggestion. Is it known why the road was closed in this section? I presume it was due to some kind of car accident – caused by UFOs, powered by alien technology, piloted by lizard-Hew hybrids who wear the uniform of members of the Zionist conspiracy?

Seriously, save the editorialising until you actually know something, you silly little dickhead. And what if they did slam on their brakes to avoid a speed camera? Still the driver’s fault – driving too fast, following too close, panicking, failing to control the vehicle, et cetera.

Samuel Gordon-Stewart9:43 pm 21 Sep 07

It was a three car accident in which one car ended up on its roof. I don’t know any more than that about the accident.

I do know that by 6pm traffic was at a standstill all the way back beyond the Lady Denman Drive to Parkway entrance.

The operation on Lady Denman on Thursday appears to have caught a few people. I counted four cars parked there without rego plates this morning.

On the plus side, at least we have our new camera to have taken pictures of the whole thing for later review.

VYBerlinaV8 now_with_added grunt9:02 pm 21 Sep 07

Regardless of safety factors, speed limits and the best of intentions, accidents sometimes happen. Usually by driver error.

It can’t be that safe, or there wouldn’t have been an accident.

And if the accident was caused by the driver suddenly noticing the speed camera and braking, then couldn’t it also have been caused by any other event that caused them to brake – eg – bird flies out, sneeze, etc. Thus perhaps the speed limit is correct.

burninator : Funny you should say that. The day before on Lady Denman drive there was about 15 cops doing breath-testing or something. I agree with you.

Mix 106 was reporting at 5pm that a car had flipped on the underpass under the parkway leading the Lady Denman drive. Related?

I wondered how long it would be until there was an accident at that speed camera site.

Just came through there from Belco, around 6.40pm. Took me 30 minutes to get from the very start of the parkway (at glenlock) to the cotter road exit, where I jumped off to get to tuggers via woden. Still took me well over an hour in total.

If it has been backed up since 5.20, you’d think they could spare one cop to redirect people at the start of the parkway! There’s your tax dollars at work!

hrm. Website doesn’t seem to be working. try. http://rohanthomson.com

sorry, forgot to leave my website 🙂

This camera on the Tuggeranong parkway is definetly a revenue raiser. This piece of road is perfectly safe, and slight speeding would not create an extra safety issue. If you would like some help with your videos etc, have a look at my website and contact me through there.

Jonathon Reynolds7:45 pm 21 Sep 07

I have just started playing with YouTube as I want to create a political commentary blog to address issues in the run up to the ACT Election 2008.

Coincidentally my first attempt was on speed camera:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gSYVaBPa0aA

(Yes, I know the camera work is shaky, I was experimenting with a device to hand hold the camera and should have used a tripod instead)

el ......VNBerlinaV87:27 pm 21 Sep 07

Looked to be a fairly serious accident. I had the exact same thought – Wondering if someone had slammed on the brakes and been cleaned up by car/s behind?

I don’t know anything about where or why or what the incident was, but our bus driver notified us of the fact and we went a different way.

I will say this though. The Tuggeranong Parkway is exactly that “A parking zone”, or just another area to park your car. This is of course around the “Grid-Lock Interchange” area obviously. Actually, I think as I am posting this message, the Parking Zone is still blocked. It’s not very good on any given day, but I am glad my bus had the chance to divert before heading down that way…

I’ve just heard that it was a 3 car pile-up.

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