9 November 2005

Stanhope says Howard to blame for terror risk

| Kerces
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Chief Minister Jon Stanhope told the ABC today the increased terrorism risk in Australia was John Howard’s fault.

He said the Prime Minister should acknowledge that in fact our involvement in the Iraq war has come at a cost to our safety.

“To continue to heap on one group of Australians responsibility for the behaviour of people over whom they have no control, without at the same time saying: ‘and we the rest of Australia will accept our responsibility for what it is that we have done that has increased or enhanced the risk of terrorism’,” Mr Stanhope said.

“That goes straight to the heart of the Prime Minister’s responsibility and culpability in taking Australia into an illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.”

He also said the arrests made in the police raids earlier this week should not be used by the Federal Government as a reason to backflip on the concessions they have made on the anti-terrorism laws.

UPDATE: Adding to these thought on the terror laws, Mr Stanhope’s put out a press release (text below) demanding to know what Shadow Attorney General Bill Stefaniak thinks of Howard’s terror laws given his recent attacks on the Chief Minister’s stance.

FURTHER UPDATE I’ve now found Bill Stefaniak’s press release that is probably what cause this fuss from Mr Stanhope. In it, he accuses the Chief Minister of going to ground after his “attempts to straddle the world like some Colossus of human rights” were shown up by the terror raids.

WHAT DOES BILL STEFANIAK BELIEVE IN?

ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope will make a submission to the Senate inquiry into the Anti-Terrorism Bill, outlining his lingering concerns with the detail of the legislation, and he has called on ACT Shadow Attorney General Bill Stefaniak to let the people of the ACT know where the ACT Liberals stand on the substance of the Bill.

“Mr Stefaniak has been extremely vocal over the past few weeks, launching almost daily personal attacks on me, but not once has he actually come clean and told Canberrans what he, a man who sets himself up as the alternative attorney general of this Territory, actually thinks about the detail of the Prime Minister’s draft laws,” Mr Stanhope said today. “In fact, Mr Stefaniak is even on the record boasting that he hadn’t read the draft laws that have been the subject of the debate. Yet he has the gall and presumption to criticise me for trying to extract the best, fairest and most workable laws for the people of the ACT.

“One can only assume that Mr Stefaniak would, if given the opportunity, have signed on the dotted line without even reading the draft laws. One can only assume that, given the chance, he would roll back the concessions made by the Prime Minister over recent weeks, concessions that have only been extracted because of the public scrutiny and considered debate the draft laws have received.

“One can only assume Mr Stefaniak would reinstate the shoot-to-kill provisions that were contained in the original circulated draft, that he would gaily countenance the locking up of children without charge and without access to their parents, that he would gladly sign away an individual’s right to judicial review on the merits.

“Mr Stefaniak evidently believes that the so-called delay that resulted when the Prime Minister shifted the sign-off deadline in response to concerns raised by the Premiers and Chief Ministers — a delay that amounted to a whole four days — was an unacceptable price to pay for the significant concessions that were achieved over those final hours. One can only assume that he, a lawyer by training, would have been happy to give the nod to laws that would almost certainly have been found to be unconstitutional.

“But of course it is impossible to know with any confidence what Mr Stefaniak believes about these and other issues that go to the heart of our legal traditions and our democracy, because he has so steadfastly declined to engage in a single moment’s worth of debate in relation to the contents of the anti-terrorism laws. The people of Canberra already know what Bill Stefaniak thinks about me — he has issued no fewer than eight media releases on that subject over the past few weeks in relation to the anti-terrorism debate. What Canberrans deserve to know is what Bill Stefaniak thinks about anti-terrorism. On that, they haven’t a clue.”

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I’d feel better about “our” troops staying around to clean up the mess if it wasn’t being handled in such an outrageously corrupt fashion (not by us, don’t get me wrong).

I was reading the other day that 3 days after the US guy in charge before the elections (Bremer?) sacked the 500,000 Iraqi soldiers who were to have a large part in the post-war reconstruction, Halliburton was awarded (without going to tender) a $7 billion contract to do the same thing. (And I’m sure everyone is aware that VicePresident Dick Cheney used to hold a senior position at and own a shirtload of shares in Halliburton)

Australia pulled out of the collossal fuckup that was Gallipoli without it being such a big deal, I’m not sure why this is soooo very different. (Yeah, during as opposed to after I know but fuckup nonetheless – and Gallipoli didn’t put a dirty great bullseye on us either)

I agree, totally spot on. Laws is a tool. Sam’s allowed to admire him if he wants, but that makes me think that Sam’s admiration-meter needs a tune-up.

No, no, Thumper. You were spot on. He is a tool.

I was just pointing out that the previous posts weren’t a seething cauldron of anti-Laws hatred.

Samuel Gordon-Stewart3:46 pm 10 Nov 05

Annie, I agree, he doesn’t represent the views of most Australians on most occasions…hopefully I didn’t come across as saying that he does.

Iraq probably was a mistake (although I will admit to supporting it when we sent the troops), but I mostly agree with Maelinar that we need to stay to clear up the mess (although I’m not sure that petrol prices are indicative of the mess).

Samuel, I wouldn’t call the previous sentiments “anti-John Laws”, except for the “John Laws is a tool” part! We’re just saying he doesn’t necessarily represent the views of most Australians.

And Kimba, I wouldn’t agree that I have rose-coloured glasses on. Yes, I do concur with Colsim on that post, and I think going to Iraq was a big mistake, a campaign based on a lie.

But the whole issue is so complicated: it’s not just about a small section of fanatical muslims, or the actions and propaganda of a powerful country that’s feeling vulnerable and jumpy.

Samuel Gordon-Stewart2:48 pm 10 Nov 05

I can’t let the anti-John Laws sentiment go by without putting my two cents in.

I don’t agree with everything he says, and I would say that is probably the same for most of his listeners, but I do have a large amount of respect for him. He is a highly successful person, which is the main reason I respect him. Very few people realise that he has acknowleged and apoligised for cash-for-comment, nor do many people realise that he has followed guidelines since. A lot of people despise him for cash-for-comment, and fair enough, it was the wrong thing to do, but he wasn’t the only person invoved, yet people treat him as if he was. Sad really.

As for Stanhope’s comments…just shut up and look after the ACT Mr. Stanhope…that is your job, if you can’t do it, resign or get voted out.

True, and they’re all probably in the same jobs they were in 20 years ago too.

Lol, with all probability no, they are the potatoes that are so old they get left in the sack.

They come from the same stock though, 20 years ago they may well have been the young potatoes out there playing touch.

Mael, I can well imagine! Although, maybe those ‘potatoes’ are not the ones who are making the big decisions?

Mr Evil, from personal experience I wouldn’t count on it.

Wait till summer hits town and then take a bus down to Russell Offices for your lunch break, you’ll see all kinds of potatoes out attempting to play touch football.

Some of them would find it hard differentiating between the opening and the other side of a letter, it’s lucky perhaps that their mail gets opened for them…

Yes Colsim and annie keep at looking at the world through your rose-coloured glasses and all will be fine. It’s not the US spin on the “black and white line” that concerns me. It is the line that the fundamentalist clerics are pushing here in Australia and around the world. This is a holy war for them. They say it is all about East Timor or Iraq or Israel…and people like you blindly accept that.

Once, if ever, these issues are resolved I am sure all the terrorist and fundamentalist will pack their bombs away and will live happily ever after!

Johnboy, I certainly hope that ASIO would be able to differentiate between the average backyard shed containing 5kg of fertiliser, 4lts of petrol, and a small amount of other ‘dangerous’ stuff; and a ‘bomb school’ shed containing 150kg of fertiliser, 100lts of diesel/petrol, 20 mobile phones and 800kg of rusty nails!

the issue isn’t that they’re dangerous muslims, the issue is that they’re dangerous.

Having said that I suggest all those with back sheds contemplate the bomb making contents of your shed’s contents in case asio come knocking with ill intent. Petroleum, fertiliser, caustic soda, nails, cleaning solvents…

my my quite a bomb you’re stockpiling for there.

In any event Bill is making a fool of himself again as the proposed terror laws which are the cause of all the fuss would not seem to have been needed here.

(yes i know there was a minor amendment last week but stanhope said he didn’t have a problem with it last week too)

Well said, Colsim. I couldn’t agree more.

Yay, it’s about time we had us another crusade…

Oh, that’s already been done since the 1300’s…

kimba, saying that the radical clerics are representative of modern Islam is like saying that the abortion bombers are representative of modern Christianity.

No doubt this is about more than a single issue, but if you think it’s some kind of jihad, you’re getting your news from a smallish number of sources.

The black and white – “they’re trying to kill us because of what we stand for” – line being pushed out of Washington is just one in a number of lies and simplifications.

Why do people have to make up excuses for the crazy-Muslims who want to kill innocent people in the name of Allah? Just listen to the radical clerics and Muftis, many who are living here in Australia, who issue fatwahs for their followers to convert every person and nation to Islam, fundamental Islam at that.

You naïve simpletons, this is not about East Timor or Iraq or even Israel, it’s about spreading their way of life and belief at what ever cost.

It time for the free world to make a stand or people like us will pay the ultimate price.

I support Australia’s role in making a stand.

It could well be that there’s not enough to do, governing this miniscule municipality…thus the forays into national and international affairs, matters of statesmanship etc. It’s probably brought on by mind-numbing boredom.
-In which case, the job should be part-time, as should those of the other aldermen, aka ministers. And while we’re at it, sack half the council workers too. Do we really need so many thousands running the joint?

Thumper, again no one on this thread is saying that we should be pulling (nor that was stanhope in that story), so why do you keep on repeating that we shouldn’t leave?

screamingmonkey4:24 pm 09 Nov 05

NoHope can’t help himself

He sooo wants to be recognised as a statesman of note on the national and international stage that the press releases keep on coming – terrorism, memorials for boats that sank overseas, women’s issues in Timor (but not the whales, that’s not our business)

Just fix the potholes ffs and sort out the local hospital problems as any good local mayor would

As a recently retired soldier I don’t support the war in Iraq, and indeed it was one of the many factors I took into consideration as to why I got out at the time I did.

That said, we are there now for whatever reason, and we need to commit to staying there until it is a proper time to go. I say a proper time to go is when fuel prices in Canberra are 0.50c a litre.

Ralph, I don’t think that Laws and his callers are any more indicative of the “real people” of Australia any more than any other self selecting group of like minded people.

And I didn’t listen to Laws either, but were they really talking about how Australia’s involvment in Iraq had increased our risk of terroist attack? That’s what Stanhope was talking about, and it’s what, from all ther polls I’ve seen, the vast majority of people in Australia agree with.

My tongue is still planted firmly in my cheek.

John Laws doesn’t necessarily represent the real people of Australia, Ralph.

He represents those who listen to his program and mostly feel the way he does.

Believe it or not, there are lots who privately feel exactly the way Stanhope does, but don’t get the chance to say it publicly.

Stanhope should’ve been listening to John Laws this morning. He would’ve then realised how far out of touch he (Stanhope) is with the real people of Australia.

Slinky the Shocker3:51 pm 09 Nov 05

I can identify 2 parties who want to destroy our way of life as a matter of fact. Islamic terrorists and little Johnny. Together they are well on their way to turn a fun-loving, free-spirited country into a bunch of pussies that are so f*&@^n scared that they are willing to trade their freedom for a false sense of security.
I support the raids, but only in the current fashion, where suspects are tried in a transparent process before a democratic court.
Piss off terrorists, piss off Johnny (and Kimmy for that matter)…!
end rant

Spot the wog3:45 pm 09 Nov 05

Well were in, and there is not a close chance that well get out before Iraq becomes what GWBush sadistic vision is, AMTG2 is going up there soon to replace AMTG1 Good Luck Boys!!!

Stanhope is right – all this crap about “They want to destroy our way of life” is so transparently wrong, the US have pissed off a bunch of people by invading and occupying their bit of dirt (and ripping off billions of dollars in the process) and by tagging along so closely, we’ve put ourselves in the firing line. (I’m not saying there should be a firing line and I emphasise that violence against the innocent is no way to solve a political situation)

Having said that, I’m not so convinced Beazley would’ve done it differently but you know there would’ve been a few more people in the party room making his life difficult.

Maintain the rage comrade.

Thumper, I don’t think he was talking about what we should do now that we’re in, rather that our involvement Iraq in the first place has increased our risk of terrorist attack. It’ss bloody well self evident, but Howard still refuses to acknowledge it.

Samuel Gordon-Stewart3:17 pm 09 Nov 05

I gotta get a webcam installed in Stanhope’s office so I can see all of his telephone rants…does his hair look angry/nutty during the telephone rants the same way it does on TV?

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