11 May 2009

Stateline on the local music scene

| johnboy
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[First filed: May 08, 2009 @ 20:51]

This one went to air tonight. Yours truly can be seen lurking in the background in a few shots.

It was a shame they didn’t mention a lot of other venues in Canberra supporting local music, particularly The Front, but also The Basement and Pot Belly. Also Stateline’s aversion to ever mentioning the Insatiable Banalities Podcast continues.

So really the same story they roll out every few years. I actually think the local music scene is stronger now than it’s been in the last decade, for all that it would be nice if musicians were paid more to play.

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you have to say any publicity is good publicity…but as a few ppl have mentioned the story didn’t cover a lot of other possibilities. Maybe that’s a perennial problem with canberra and popular culture, given the sprawl of the place and the fact that even now there is not much of a centre of gravity anywhere, its difficult to see how gigs and venues can prosper outside of their own smallish fan base. With the talent around its a bloody shame really.

Stateline is, as usual, a bit narrow. The featured CMC thing was a good base for a story without doing too much research. There is some great indie-rock people as well as pretty good metal scene (which, BTW, has developed much since we used to try to do it in the 70s).
The blues is supported by a few venues across town (this shouldn’t have required much research to find). Some touring blues musos from Sydney commented to me that all the gigs in their newsletter seem to be in Canberra.
PS: I have a beard. Can I still join the CMC?

Maybe it was a convenient excuse – who knows? At the end of the day I guess he can do whatever he wants with it since he owns it.

It’d be nice to think that the bands who played at The Green Room will find a similar venue around Canberra.

Yeah maybe if we’d all worn cardigans and discussed Proust and Balzac over a quiet coopers instead of being who we are the Greenroom would still be open.

Damn you hindsight… damn you.

No offence meant to the quiet cooper drinking proust & Balzac discussing folkies.

Just having a bit of fun.

You guys keep on keeping on…

Good on ya for doing your own thing…

Tonka said :

So the vandalism was caused by greenroom patrons?

Proof? Or are you happy to just slander myself and my friends without it?

Amazing how that at the time I spoke at length to most of the people involved upstairs/downstairs about the closure and not one of them ever mentioned vandalism…. ever.

But now… many months later there’s this notion that instead of watching bands upstairs we were all really out the back vandalising car yards. It’s funny that I don’t recall spending my nights out the back wrecking people’s property, but I do recall seeing some great bands, supporting local music and having a lot of fun.

It’s also funny how at the time, when money was being made from us, we were welcome guests and friends, but now apparently we’re vandals and a hassle.

Just goes to show eh?

You can support someone for years on end and this is the thanks we get.

Very nice. Very nice indeed.

+1

The whole ‘vandalism’ angle is remarkably tenuous and, to me, reads like a lame excuse for kicking a couple of businesses off a lease in the pursuit greater rental returns.

So, in essence, the Green Room doesn’t exist because of greed.

Nambucco Deliria11:32 am 12 May 09

It must have been you and your mates, Tonka. The folk/acoustic/pop fans were too busy being ‘alternative’ in someones back garden, or teaching gorillas how to do gigs.

So the vandalism was caused by greenroom patrons?

Proof? Or are you happy to just slander myself and my friends without it?

Amazing how that at the time I spoke at length to most of the people involved upstairs/downstairs about the closure and not one of them ever mentioned vandalism…. ever.

But now… many months later there’s this notion that instead of watching bands upstairs we were all really out the back vandalising car yards. It’s funny that I don’t recall spending my nights out the back wrecking people’s property, but I do recall seeing some great bands, supporting local music and having a lot of fun.

It’s also funny how at the time, when money was being made from us, we were welcome guests and friends, but now apparently we’re vandals and a hassle.

Just goes to show eh?

You can support someone for years on end and this is the thanks we get.

Very nice. Very nice indeed.

Jim Jones said :

It had nothing to do with either profit or vandalism. To the best of my knowledge, the lease that expired and Gary (the owner of the Green Room) wasn’t given an opportunity to take it up again. As far as I know he’s still looking for a suitable venue (and he’s doing freelance PA hire and soundguy stuff at the moment). But it’s a hard ask – he’d already moved once to the University of Canberra (which was a pretty disastrous location).

Well, the reason the owner didn’t extend the lease was because he was sick of his car yard and others in Devine Court being vandalised. I’ve been told the premises are being converted into office space – good rental returns and far less hassle.

I always think of the O’Shea’s/Green Room location as The Henry Grattan. Nuff said.

Vandalism associated with the Greenroom?

I don’t think so.

I played there for years and never saw any vandalism associated with the Greenroom.

Nix, nada, nothing.

O’Sheas downstairs had some *interesting* patrons who sometimes enjoyed a bit of a scuffle (and I saw maybe three or four fights over all the years I played there), but it was nothing compared to the nonsense that goes on in civic or manuka on any given weekend, and nothing to do with the Greenroom.

I have some notion of why O’Sheas closed but I’m not going to say anything (it’s not my place to say anything), but associating vandalism with the Greenroom or their patrons is just not true and I actually find the idea offensive.

misspris said :

Nambucco Deliria said :

Canberra had the Green Room, which, whilst not as iconic as any of the venues mentioned by Bloodnut was a nationally known (at least by the many interstate bands that played there) and liked venue. But at the end of the day it didn’t turn enough of a profit to keep the owners interested.

It had nothing to do with profit and everything to do with vandalism that was associated with O’Sheas and The Green Room as I understand it. The owner also owns a car dealership in Devine Court.

It had nothing to do with either profit or vandalism. To the best of my knowledge, the lease that expired and Gary (the owner of the Green Room) wasn’t given an opportunity to take it up again. As far as I know he’s still looking for a suitable venue (and he’s doing freelance PA hire and soundguy stuff at the moment). But it’s a hard ask – he’d already moved once to the University of Canberra (which was a pretty disastrous location).

Perhaps talk to the Serbian club? Make The Folkus more permanent and more cross-genre?

Nambucco Deliria said :

Canberra had the Green Room, which, whilst not as iconic as any of the venues mentioned by Bloodnut was a nationally known (at least by the many interstate bands that played there) and liked venue. But at the end of the day it didn’t turn enough of a profit to keep the owners interested.

It had nothing to do with profit and everything to do with vandalism that was associated with O’Sheas and The Green Room as I understand it. The owner also owns a car dealership in Devine Court.

The government owns all ACT land so the government already owns drinking establishments. It seems a pity there are lots of bands out there with nowhere to play to an appreciative audience. Perhaps a JJJ pub.

Nambucco Deliria12:56 pm 11 May 09

Is that man in the photo at the top of the thread sporting a beard? I’ve been repeatedly assured by those ‘in the know’ throughout this thread that no bearded folkies were featured in Stateline piece. Maybe it’s just a comedy mirkin he’s wearing, thus demonstrating the general great fun to be had in Canberra’s folk/pop/acoustic scene.

farnarkler said :

Has anyone asked the government for a grant to build a music venue?

I believe it’s been floated many times.

The Government opening a pub is problematic.

Personally I’d like to see it made easier for many entrants to operate diverse music venues.

The old Gypsy was a great place to go as a punter, but at any given time whomever was doing the bookings there was the defacto programming director for the whole city.

Has anyone asked the government for a grant to build a music venue?

Metal and punk are folk music!?!?!

Riiiiight!

Music constantly evolves, and introduces new elements into existing genres all the time. These new elements can create sub-genres within their genre, be it punk metal or folk or whatever. Maybe they’ll even forge a whole new genre over time.

If people are creating new music now with sincerity while choosing to wear their hearts on their sleeves regarding their influences and the way they sound, then it’s relevant and hardly ‘the music of yesteryear’.

Backyard and guerilla gigs are a great idea, but hardly a new idea.

Regardless, if people want the music they create to be heard they will find a way to make it happen and I think this is an awesome example of that.

At least Astralplane confirms that bigots and purists exist across all genres.

There definitely seems to be fewer live music venues than there were when I arrived in Canberra 15 years ago. But the quality of live music, when I do see it, it just as good as ever. Having the School of Music here helps for jazz, funk and classical. Not sure where the metal inspiration comes from – bored public servants?

In any case, it would be great to see more live music venues. Musicians organising their own events is a great gap-filler, but long-term I’d love to see more cafes and bars getting musicians in. I had Red Hot Go (new acoustic duo) do my shop launch party last week, and I think it gave everyone something to talk about after. Regardless of what people think of acoustic pop, it suited a small venue for a casual party, and the lasses can really play. If more venues used live music this way, it would help – and it’s an inexpensive way to make the folks in your cafe (or whatever) happy.

To clarify, I meant his point about the show, not about music.

Jim Jones said :

So Astralplane’s argument is essentially “I’m really funky and experimental and cool, and everyone else is boring and repetitive”?

No… I think the point was that if you have 5 and a half minutes to do a story on something then you need an interesting angle, and the backanalias and guerilla gigs provided that angle. It’s not about folk vs metal or whatever at all. It was clearly about one particular aspect of the Canberra music scene.

Nambucco Deliria9:47 am 11 May 09

Jim Jones said :

So Astralplane’s argument is essentially “I’m really funky and experimental and cool, and everyone else is boring and repetitive”?

That’s about the size of it. Finnish experimentalism rules, you squares!

So Astralplane’s argument is essentially “I’m really funky and experimental and cool, and everyone else is boring and repetitive”?

Hmmm… what’s more experimental? Folk or punk and metal? Try Kemialliset Ystävät. Well, allright, not really local but anyway. Point is you can find original new stuff in any genre and sure there’s some here. In the punk scene you’d have too admit, some, but not much experimental round here. If you think there’s more original inventive stuff in the hard rock scene that whatever you think the folk scene is I think you’re pretty blikered. It’s the same for whatever it is you’re defining the folk scene as – there’s some, but not much. And so what.

It’s not really the point. The point is the show was about something different, which playing hard rock in a venue somewhere is not. I mean, definitely not.

Not bad or anything, because it’s good. But the TV didn’t cover that stuff because that’s not what it was about.

Well said AstralPlane

Deadmandrinking9:04 pm 10 May 09

I’ve got to say, some punk and metal, as well as prog-rock and other kinds tend to experiment a little more than the folkies, Astralplane.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t have covered the folkies. I’m saying they should have covered other genres too.

The punk and metal scene is just the same as the bearded folkies. They’re all playing the music of yesteryear in the same little boxes. Face it you punk core musos, you’re playing old people’s music. With your own wee Canberra scene doing your own wee Canberra thing. Metal for the brain had the same festival feel, just everyone wore black. Your granddad did metal in 1967 and your dad did punk in 1977. Really, you can’t complain that the show was about folk and then hold up metal and punk as something new. Metal and punk are folk music.

And the show was not about bearded folkies anyway. Not even close. It didn’t feature any and was about people doing something different to what normally happens round here. Again, not new, but different at the moment. Which is why it didn’t feature the usual venues – what is usual is not interesting for TV. TV is not interested in punk and metal because it is old.

And, unlike the bearded folkies, the little punkies and the grim metalies, the hot backyardies are fresh. When overseas friends ask about the Canberra scene I do tell them about (and have brought some to see) backyard gigs. Why? Because unlike the venues with the same old same old same old thing, they’re fresh, interesting, entertaining, fun, drunken nights. Because you don’t have them in other towns because other towns are boring.

Yeah. Man.

The first post in this thread made the most sense, yet everyone ignored it!

That story was not a ‘woe is me’ whine about venues or a style vs style critique of Canberra music. It’s focus was on some funky local events that are a growing part of our scene and which are just a little bit different from your average pub gig.

The folk or be folked debate is redundant. This is original, local music of a range of styles played by people of all ages, shapes and sizes (some even without beards). Don’t just mock it, it’s not the folk festival, if you enjoy music, grab a chair and your esky, join the audience and find out.

Those of us that have played at the Backanalias and the guerilla gigs over the last few years know how special they are and how unique it is to create music in a chilled environment for people who are appreciative.

The Green Room was great, just like Toast, and the many others that have gone before and failed. Like Transit, the Phoenix, The Potty and a few others, The Basement (will still always be Pete’s to some of us) is doing a great job at the moment and hopefully they keep on going, but it is liberating to host gigs without having to worry about venues and owners and all the crap that goes with them.

I’m proud to part of a ‘backyard’ or ‘suburban’ scene, where the neighbours join the audience instead of calling the cops.

Good on you Stateline, although sitting through 20 freaking minutes of local politics was a high price to pay for seeing the story.

Nambucco Deliria7:42 pm 10 May 09

Jim Jones said :

How in all hell could you have a story on live music in Canberra at the moment and not mention The Basement?

Because there’s no folk/pop/acoustic or whatever little boxes people want to slot music into played there. How in hell could you have a story on live music in Canberra without asking for some input from BMA? Or the Editor of Fly?

How in all hell could you have a story on live music in Canberra at the moment and not mention The Basement?

damnintellectuals said :

Jay-sas. Who wants to be known for a suburban sound?

Well damnintellectuals there are a only a handful of hectares of inner urban Australia – none of which are in Canberra, and none of which are fostering a thriving music scene – too busy discussing real estate prices. So the suburbs are where it’s at, clearly!

Nambucco Deliria11:29 am 10 May 09

damnintellectuals said :

Stateline news anchor: “The music scene with a difference… is thriving in Canberra. And it has a distinctly suburban sound.”

Jay-sas. Who wants to be known for a suburban sound?

Punk rock was hailed as ‘the sound of the suburbs’ in 1977. So such a soubriquet can’t be all bad.

Old Parliament House has a fantastic courtyard – why not make a permanent gig base there? It would help the new Museum of Australian Democracy along too.

damnintellectuals3:59 am 10 May 09

Stateline news anchor: “The music scene with a difference… is thriving in Canberra. And it has a distinctly suburban sound.”

Jay-sas. Who wants to be known for a suburban sound?

Thanks to all those who have contributed constructively to the above comment stream. It’s a bit saddening to read some comments however, particularly those that descend into cliched anachronistic (and false) characterisations around various styles of music, and engage the local music scene as if in a combat zone of competing genres.

The Canberra Musicians Club’s formation was partly inspired by a desire to determine whether, if musicians (and others in the local industry) worked together to build a broad audience for all genres of contemporary original music, we couldn’t have a more viable industry for us all to share.

It just so happens that, in these first seven months of its operation, the Club has leaned towards the ‘acoustic’, ‘folk’, ‘pop’ or whatever little boxes people want to slot bands into. This is for many reasons but the main one is that members of those sort of bands have stepped forward, wanted to be involved in a collective effort that has only good intentions, paid their $20 annual dues and got involved in organising shows and doing all the other shit work involved in getting music out there, promoted and presented well.

The Club welcomes members from all musical genres (and non-musical music lovers too). How about laying off the anonymous back-biting and getting involved?

Nambucco Deliria4:42 pm 09 May 09

It was a wasted opportunity. For a start, if one of my friends from overseas enquires about the Canberra music scene (which occasionally they do), I don’t tell them there’s a thriving community of people with stand-up basses who enjoy playing in one anothers back gardens. I might, however, mention Triple J staples D’Opus and Roshambo, or the Young and Restless or Hancock Basement. And I’d definitely mention Pod People and Alchemist, two Canberra bands with worldwide reputations and record deals.I’d also give a shout to the very healthy (and no less DIY in outlook than the Canberra Musicians Club)punk and hardcore scene. However none of these people were even mentioned, much less asked for their opinions. Maybe that’s because they were too busy playing shows in one of Canberra’s many venues to skulk about in a backyard bitching about the whole thing on local TV.

I would argue that story wasn’t covering the folk scene – not even close.

Sure its a term that’s bandied about by some, but (without getting into philosphical debate) there was no folk music featured. If you were watching or listening you would have seen/heard alt-country, acoustic, pop, and performance art including bands that have won a number of unearthed gongs on JJJ. That’s Australia’s youth network.

But arguably no folk… maybe indie folk, but then only one band.

The fact that local unsigned bands, without major representation are playing at the nation’s biggest festivals like Woodford and Womad stands in stark contradiction to any claims of a lack of originality or quality of our local product – Johnboy’s earler comment rings true.

There is no woe is me… just a lack of venues.

Nambucco Deliria said :

Is there really a paucity of venues in Canberra? Or just not many that are willing to let a load of bearded folkies bore the pants off of anyone in earshot?

God forbid. Play something the punters want to hear – and just maybe pay for – and the muso’s get paid more. Sounds too much like capitalism – something a “bearded folkie” would take issue with.

There are too many people in this town with an arts approach to music and not an entertainment approach.

For the record I am a gigging musician. Over the hill for originals (and may also be lacking sufficient talent) but have relegated music to a hobby ’cause it doesn’t pay the bills. Economic reality.

Nambucco Deliria2:39 pm 09 May 09

The folk scene gets covered because the people at the ABC, like the people at the Canberra Times, are so lazy they just see what’s on Riot Act and then cover it.

Deadmandrinking1:08 pm 09 May 09

It’s just that, at risk of possibly offending some musicians, I think the more original music popping out of Canberra isn’t coming from the folk scene (not so much from the metal scene either). I mean, there’s really good musicians that play folk here, but it’s got this ‘overdone before’ sound to it which kind of makes me lose my interest. Some of Canberra’s hard rock and funk-rock bands are playing some interesting stuff. Super Best Friends comes to mind.

woe is music stories from yester-year have featured the metal boys.

If the Stateline soundy had more experience with live music recording the folkies probably had better potential to sound good?

As it was they really should have recorded off the mixing desk not with the guinea pig on a stick.

Deadmandrinking12:44 pm 09 May 09

I just gotta ask, why is it always the Folk/Country scene that gets covered?

Canberra has a much wider variety of music here. The Metal Scene, for example, (No, I’m not that much of a metal fan, but I’ve got friends in metal bands) produced several acts that gained nationwide and international attention. I think the Basement has given our metal scene a stable place to thrive?

We’re not all 40-year old hippees!

I still think the bi-annual “Woe is local music” story is bad tactics.

People will assume that it’s driven by a lack of quality.

There’s a bigger, and more educated, audience for local original music than ever before in my experience. For mine I wish that had been the focus of the story rather than the same of lamentation for warmer summers.

Agreed – iconic, historic yep.

World class venue with top-notch sound.

nope. ‘specially when there are Gaelic Clubs and Hi Fi Ballrooms…

While both venues continued committment to live music is great – especially Transit Bar’s move towards free music and guarantees – both ANU and Transit rooms have horrible acoustics because they were both put together with music as an afterthought. Not even ‘the best’ *coughs* local venues are music friendly.

And I’m not even going to start getting nostalgic about venues of yesterday.

That was the best story I have seen on Stateline for a long time. Hopefully it will give the scene a boost.

Nambucco Deliria10:20 am 09 May 09

Canberra had the Green Room, which, whilst not as iconic as any of the venues mentioned by Bloodnut was a nationally known (at least by the many interstate bands that played there) and liked venue. But at the end of the day it didn’t turn enough of a profit to keep the owners interested. The Transit Bar in the city is carving a niche for itself in the same mould as the Green Room, but has to constantly battle nimbies complaining about the noise; The ANU bar would be our best shot at an Iconic, historic, wouldn’t it?

Sydney has the Vanguard.

Melbourne has The Espy.

Brisbane has The Troubadour.

Canberra has the… paucity of venues.

Nambucco Deliria9:41 am 09 May 09

Is there really a paucity of venues in Canberra? Or just not many that are willing to let a load of bearded folkies bore the pants off of anyone in earshot?

Clown Killer1:13 am 09 May 09

On the current business model artists will get more when punters pony more on the way in, simple as that.

ahem. try that again.

BITCH FACE MARIEKE

I think the only shame was that it would have aired to an audience of six people given it came after the most mind numbing segment on Canberra’s development of self government.

i actually made a little bit of sick in my mouth each time Eyebrows Follett popped up into view.

thanks goodness you had the foresight to record it – thanks JB.

I think we can all agree on the fact that it was a far better (intentioned) effort than provided to us by bitch face Marieke</a?

Any publicity is good publicity for canberra music, don’t you think? The angle seemed to be more on the creative ways Canberrans are promoting local music, with the Backanalias and the guerilla gigs being the focus, rather than a same old same old approach. These events are pretty unique and have a great feel to them, and haven’t been around all that long. The reality is that we don’t have enough venues, especially of a decent size and especially willing to pay musicians a decent amount.

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