Synthetic cannabis outlawed in the ACT

Violet68 said :

The War on Drugs hasn’t been successful in America, so why would it be here? I’d like to think we can try different approaches in Australia and avoid taking up ideologies that have failed elsewhere.

Knowing the destructive nature of drug use on health, emotional and financial fronts, I don’t want to see them legalised just because apparently we aren’t winning ……. you don’t give in because its in the too hard basket !!!

Awesome, well if that’s the case, lets legalese cocaine, heroin, murder, and automatic weapons, because Hey, booze can kill too!

your head is in the sand, and its clear that is where it will stay! (and that will remain clearly visible here, for a long time!)

I would like to see “illegal substances” regulated and tested to try and “sift out” the crap that people with dependencies are consuming/ingesting and to try and make them affordable to reduce related crime. It’s possible to become “addicted” to all sorts of things – exercise, gambling, chocolate, coffee, sex, plastic surgery, bungee jumping….whatever floats your boat. Addictions/Dependence can consume a life whether they are legal or not. MI can also be triggered by stress, hormones during life cycle changes (adolescence, pregnancy), trauma. Laying blame on the substance or the user/abuser isn’t going to make people stop using/abusing (whatever you want to call it).

The War on Drugs hasn’t been successful in America, so why would it be here? I’d like to think we can try different approaches in Australia and avoid taking up ideologies that have failed elsewhere.

fragge said :

00davist said :

Cheap said :

Spideydog said :

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

Where do you draw the line for what caused an event?

His own actions (smoking before driving) led to the crash, not the substance itself. There are plenty of things which aren’t safe when in the wrong hands or for the wrong purpose.

How about the deaths attributed to psychotic outbreaks of schizophrenia brought on by the long term use of marijuana?

By all means, show some examples champ. Oh, and the research that shows a direct link between Cannabis usage over time and development of Schizophrenia (excluding the ages under 21 – all psychoactive chemicals can present an increased risk of developing schizophrenic symptoms during this time).

As an aside, I find it amusing the people here commenting with stuff like marijuana “may increase risk of schizophrenia” (itself a collection of organically inconsistent synapse connections, not a single measurable illness that can be triggered on/off) and makes a user a “useless, dumb lump” (subjective). I’d like to compare this substance with a couple of others that many of you will be familiar with and may support the controlled/responsible usage of:

Alcohol (~$4-7 p/standard unit) [LEGAL]
– Impaired judgement/memory/muscle control
– Blurred vision/delayed reactions
– Anterograde amnesia
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Risk of drug-induced anxietal psychosis
– Increased risk of cancer (3.6% of world cancers caused by Alcohol abuse)
– Vomiting/coma/death
– Liver/kidney damage
– Brain damage
– Alcohol dependence
– Tremors/quakes/long-term memory degradation
– ~100k confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Tobacco (~$0.72 p/standard unit) [LEGAL]
– Reduced immuno-effectivity
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Lung/throat/mouth damage
– Reduced bloodflow/increased risk of circulatory disease or failure
– Increased risk of lung/throat/mouth/pancreatic/bladder/larynxal cancer
– Emphysema
– Secondhand smoke causes cancer (apparently)
– Nicotine addiction/withdrawals
– 33-50% of users will be killed by usage
– ~5.4m confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Cannabis (~$0.90 p/standard unit) [ILLEGAL]
– Lung/throat/mouth damage
– Reduced immuno-effectivity
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Risk of drug-induced anxietal psychosis
– Increased risk of cancer (non-specific)
– Emphysema
– ~0 confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Please note, the confirmed deaths numbers are from online sources (and are approximations), and do not take into account car accidents caused by any kind of drug intoxication (irrelevant to comparative health detriments).

Please use some common sense and google before you start publishing crap online, remember that what you write stays published for a very long time (unlike a conversation), and many ignorant eyes will pass over your misinformation before it is scrubbed from the annals of history.

Back on topic, emergency banning this substance is in principle a poor choice (though fully in-line with our existing policies and thus appropriate), though the ban does give time for chemical analysis (which I doubt will be performed very rigorously in this country) and case studies to determine long-term ill effects of K2 and other synthetics. As these drugs are similar to THC in chemical structure but contain extra bonds or “tails” that don’t occur in natural THC, there is every possibility that they are more (or less) harmful to the human body than THC. I know one thing though, they’re bloody potent.

Examples? How bout you pull your head out and meet them!

Also, your argument is “These things are bad too, so it should be legal?

Awesome, well if that’s the case, lets legalese cocaine, heroin, murder, and automatic weapons, because Hey, booze can kill too!

your head is in the sand, and its clear that is where it will stay! (and that will remain clearly visible here, for a long time!)

I knew many, many normal functioning members of society and then they discovered World of Warcraft.

I knew some who lost their jobs, I knew some that failed university, all of it attributed to addiction of World of Warcraft, some clocking up 100+ hours of game time a week.

World of Warcraft should be banned, for it ruins lives.

johnboy said :

correlation does not equal causation.

Well that throws the stats argument out the window, because that’s all they are.

Besides, I wrote “personal experience”. In no way was I trying to proport that this was a scientific analysis. It was purely that, from personal experience.

Regardless of my personal experiences, there has been numerous research undertaken that shows a very high proportion of persons with MH are regular cannabis users.

correlation does not equal causation.

johnboy said :

I bet 100% of them were food eaters too.

And ?

The_TaxMan said :

Ask a copper why it’s illegal and their stock answer is “because it is”.

Thats funny, police including health workers and MH workers are the ones on the front line dealing with these people on the drug with the associated health effects. I am pretty sure they would have more to say than “because it is”

Anyways, on the internet there is arguments for and against cannabis use and each will have thier onw associated stats to go with it. So we can sit here and throw “who to believe” internet stats and go nowhere.

fragge said :

Cannabis (~$0.90 p/standard unit) [ILLEGAL]
– Lung/throat/mouth damage
– Reduced immuno-effectivity
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Risk of drug-induced anxietal psychosis
– Increased risk of cancer (non-specific)
– Emphysema
– ~0 confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Please note, the confirmed deaths numbers are from online sources (and are approximations), and do not take into account car accidents caused by any kind of drug intoxication (irrelevant to comparative health detriments).

So lung/throat/mouth damage can’t cause death. Emphysema doesn’t cause death. Cancer doesn’t cause death. Depression leading to suicide doesn’t cause death. These are from your own stats gained from GOOGLE …… lol

Here’s a google search for you: “Vampires are real” gets 35,700,000 hits …….. It must be true then !!!!!

It is also quite convenient that you don’t include “road deaths” in your stats because you know that it will show deaths were high levels of cannabis was present after autopsy.

Most cannabis users are also tobacco smokers, so when deaths are recorded, guess what they go down as …… tobacco related illness, forgetting that cannabis use also has the same, but more effects.

I have a great deal of contact with the poor souls that have mental illness and guess what, in personal experience, 99.9% of them are or have been regular cannabis users. I don’t need stats to tell me that.

Can you guys please post where exactly these pro-drugs stats were gained from, instead of just “google search” so that the merits of these “stats” can be looked at.

kakosi said :

People can smoke what they like but I know three people who smoked heavily who became schizophrenic. They were all intelligent people who thought this drug was a harmless soft option.

Whilst I can empathise with your comments it still does not detract from the fact that marijuana compared to Alcohol and cigarettes is about as harmful as cotton wool and yes i can imagine that if you were to eat 3 tonnes of cotton wool it may indeed give you an upset stomach or the chemicals used in it’s manufacture may cause to psychological harm in the greater scheme of things it’s still cotton wool and unlikely to kill you.Please people IF you intend to argue the evils of weed PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do your research and argue from a point of knowledge and don’t just spew out rhetoric fed to you by politicians and coppers that have no idea at all. Ask a copper why it’s illegal and their stock answer is “because it is”.

People can smoke what they like but I know three people who smoked heavily who became schizophrenic. One guy is now totally unable to live in society and is in a hospital ward in Orange, my sister in law committed suicide about a year after developing symptoms and another lives in a half-way house with other mentally ill people in Canberra. They were all intelligent people who thought this drug was a harmless soft option.

Every drug can have side effects, this one has a pretty shit side effects.

Thankyou fragge.
About time someone with some sense posted on here, here’s a fact Deaths in Australia 2004-05 (newer figures not available) from ALL illegal drugs combined 427, those attributed to dope 0, tobacco consumption killed 14,900 in Victoria alone. By posting these figures I am NOT saying all drugs should be legal I am merely pointing to the fact that legal drugs KILL, MAIM and ruin the lives of millions of people every year. According to Statistics the USA has a “conservative annual prescription (legally issued by Doctors) drug death rate of 106,000” worldwide NOT ONE SINGLE person died as a direct result of smoking or otherwise ingesting pot although according to the ATF in America over 1000 people die each month in drug wars worldwide to control the trade of illegal drugs.
Prohibiting items increases their use rather than decreases this is a statistically provable fact, education is always a better option but that places some degree of onus on our pollies and that is not what they believe good Government is about, good government apparently is about making a point even if that point is pointless, lacking in facts and nothing more than kneejerk childishness.

00davist said :

Cheap said :

Spideydog said :

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

Where do you draw the line for what caused an event?

His own actions (smoking before driving) led to the crash, not the substance itself. There are plenty of things which aren’t safe when in the wrong hands or for the wrong purpose.

How about the deaths attributed to psychotic outbreaks of schizophrenia brought on by the long term use of marijuana?

By all means, show some examples champ. Oh, and the research that shows a direct link between Cannabis usage over time and development of Schizophrenia (excluding the ages under 21 – all psychoactive chemicals can present an increased risk of developing schizophrenic symptoms during this time).

As an aside, I find it amusing the people here commenting with stuff like marijuana “may increase risk of schizophrenia” (itself a collection of organically inconsistent synapse connections, not a single measurable illness that can be triggered on/off) and makes a user a “useless, dumb lump” (subjective). I’d like to compare this substance with a couple of others that many of you will be familiar with and may support the controlled/responsible usage of:

Alcohol (~$4-7 p/standard unit) [LEGAL]
– Impaired judgement/memory/muscle control
– Blurred vision/delayed reactions
– Anterograde amnesia
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Risk of drug-induced anxietal psychosis
– Increased risk of cancer (3.6% of world cancers caused by Alcohol abuse)
– Vomiting/coma/death
– Liver/kidney damage
– Brain damage
– Alcohol dependence
– Tremors/quakes/long-term memory degradation
– ~100k confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Tobacco (~$0.72 p/standard unit) [LEGAL]
– Reduced immuno-effectivity
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Lung/throat/mouth damage
– Reduced bloodflow/increased risk of circulatory disease or failure
– Increased risk of lung/throat/mouth/pancreatic/bladder/larynxal cancer
– Emphysema
– Secondhand smoke causes cancer (apparently)
– Nicotine addiction/withdrawals
– 33-50% of users will be killed by usage
– ~5.4m confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Cannabis (~$0.90 p/standard unit) [ILLEGAL]
– Lung/throat/mouth damage
– Reduced immuno-effectivity
– Increased risk of depression/anxiety
– Risk of drug-induced anxietal psychosis
– Increased risk of cancer (non-specific)
– Emphysema
– ~0 confirmed deaths attributed to this drug each YEAR.

Please note, the confirmed deaths numbers are from online sources (and are approximations), and do not take into account car accidents caused by any kind of drug intoxication (irrelevant to comparative health detriments).

Please use some common sense and google before you start publishing crap online, remember that what you write stays published for a very long time (unlike a conversation), and many ignorant eyes will pass over your misinformation before it is scrubbed from the annals of history.

Back on topic, emergency banning this substance is in principle a poor choice (though fully in-line with our existing policies and thus appropriate), though the ban does give time for chemical analysis (which I doubt will be performed very rigorously in this country) and case studies to determine long-term ill effects of K2 and other synthetics. As these drugs are similar to THC in chemical structure but contain extra bonds or “tails” that don’t occur in natural THC, there is every possibility that they are more (or less) harmful to the human body than THC. I know one thing though, they’re bloody potent.

I agree that outright banning of stuff just makes for more crime and richer drug lords.
It should be obvious to the do gooders out there, that just because its an offence, doesn’t stop people from doing it.

Waiting For Godot said :

Let the black market begin.

And this.

Jim Jones said :

This will have about the same effect on the world as the banning of non-alcoholic wine.

This.

Jazz said :

so how is the legality of canabis going to change that? Alcohol is legal but I bet there are a fair few people who sit around and drink all day too.

The problem is that cannabis is like a whole heap of other things: there are some people who can use dope occasionally and be no worse for wear, and others who just can’t control themselves. Just like alcohol.

Ultimately, there probably isn’t a perfect (or even good) solution. Legal or not, some people will allow their lives to be destroyed by substance abuse.

If we take the same approach as we have with tobacco, we could label plain packaging, with the health warnings and let people decide for themselves the risks they take.

These warnings from the thread could be examples……..

“turn into useless, dumb lumps.”

“any health issues (including mental illness)”

“Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing”

“psychotic outbreaks of schizophrenia brought on by the long term use of marijuana”

If the new laws with tobacco advertising are being introduced to reduce the use and risk, then they could be used to do the same for “pot”. Less use within the community being the desired outcome.

so how is the legality of canabis going to change that? Alcohol is legal but I bet there are a fair few people who sit around and drink all day too.

grunge_hippy said :

I’ve seen too many people with huge potential be totally ruined by smoking pot. Schizophrenic, depressed and basically vegetables laying on the couch all day. Unemployable, a burden on their family and society and all because they couldn’t function without cones.

harmless my arse.

Agreed. I too have (sadly) seen people I know get stuck into dope and turn into useless, dumb lumps.

Cheap said :

Spideydog said :

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

Where do you draw the line for what caused an event?

His own actions (smoking before driving) led to the crash, not the substance itself. There are plenty of things which aren’t safe when in the wrong hands or for the wrong purpose.

How about the deaths attributed to psychotic outbreaks of schizophrenia brought on by the long term use of marijuana?

Spideydog said :

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

+1

I know from seeing its effects first hand that it has a tremendous negative effect, seriously, if you want to make up fairy tales, tell them to someone else!

Wasn’t this synthetic crap way more expensive that the real thing anyway? It was always going to be outlawed once it got into the media.

Spideydog said :

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

Where do you draw the line for what caused an event?

His own actions (smoking before driving) led to the crash, not the substance itself. There are plenty of things which aren’t safe when in the wrong hands or for the wrong purpose.

I’ve seen too many people with huge potential be totally ruined by smoking pot. Schizophrenic, depressed and basically vegetables laying on the couch all day. Unemployable, a burden on their family and society and all because they couldn’t function without cones.

harmless my arse.

Mr_Clapp said :

I’ll just leave this here: http://duilawyersnow.org/illinois-teen-pleads-guilty-to-smoking-marijuana-before-fatal-car-crash

How is this death not attributed to the fact that cannabis is illegal? I guess you truly do support the deaths that have come from cannabis prohibition. If cannabis remained legal you would assume that the great minds of government would have put in place the same form of DUI testing as they did for alcohol way back when (not the poor excuse for a law they have just bought in), by the time this teen was old enough to drive it would have been pumped into him over and over again like it is with alcohol that it is unsafe to drive. In the end some people are just d*ckheads and will do it anyway.

I guess i could spill out some “facts” you’d be more likely to believe though with your 1930s ways. Here is some “truths” from what i assume is your mate, Harry J. Anslinger

“Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death”
“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”
“Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing”
“You smoke a joint and you’re likely to kill your brother.”
“Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.”

The reality is that as long as people just listen to what they have been told and not actually think for themselves and find out real facts, people will continue to die needlessly. Just the way a-ha a-ha you like it.

Mr_Clapp said :

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

I’ll just leave this here: http://duilawyersnow.org/illinois-teen-pleads-guilty-to-smoking-marijuana-before-fatal-car-crash

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

If you truly believe that cannabis is not related to any deaths or indeed any health issues (including mental illness), you been smoking a lot of the said product …………..

Mr_Clapp said :

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

Yes. Whenever I discover someone pontificating about the evils of drugs, and how they should be banned, I always think “Which drug lord is paying you?”

The only people who profit (enormously) from drug prohibitions are the pushers.

If we could legalise the various illegal drugs, register the users, tax the drugs, ensure quality etc etc then we’d all be a lot better off. The cops could direct their efforts elsewhere. We’d probably need less cops anyway as drug related crime would almost disappear. The corruption of our legal system and society in general would disappear because the pushers would lose their huge profits. The people who become ill or die due to impurities would be better off. Society would be able to help the addicted to recover. People would be less likely to take the drugs in the first place, as the social cachet would be diminished. Etc etc etc…I could go on for hours.

The stupidity of the world we live in never ceases to amaze me.

buzz819 said :

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Not getting into the stupidity behind it becoming illegal in the 1st place, I feel the main reason for the legalisation of cannabis is a pretty simple one.

The only deaths that are attributed to Cannabis have been caused by making it illegal. It is that simple a child could see that. As long as a virtually harmless plant that has been used for thousands of years remains illegal, people will continue to die trying to make a dollar (billions) out of it. Anyone that supports the continuing prohibition on Cannabis supports the deaths that are associated with it.

This will have about the same effect on the world as the banning of non-alcoholic wine.

For all you pro-dope fiends have a read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-pro-marijuana-arguments-that-arent-helping/

Nice article from America.

Let the black market begin.

Nooooo man! I think I need some Cheetos now.

Well I think the Government have taken the wrong avenue on this one.
They should have spent time testing the products, then tax and sell the product themselves.
more revenue and easier to police than illicit substances.

The only good thing about this being banned is that people will probably go back to smoking cannabis which is a lot safer because it isn’t made by man.