13 February 2013

Take a bow 29 Delegate Street Kaleen

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29 delegate street

Many thanks to Bugmenot for pointing out a most impressive house in Kaleen.

We salute the effort!


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bleebleeblee1:30 pm 15 Feb 13

Beau Locks said :

Gungahlin Al said :

Some neighbours are just nothing short of arseholes.
Can you imagine living next to this? Can you imagine trying to sell?
Is it any wonder neighbours come to blows?

And WildTurkey? That’s the lamest troll from you yet.

You surprise me Al! Actually, I can imagine living next to Warren. I know the people that own the house next door. He’s a lovely bloke and a great neighbour.

Bam! And… end thread.

Any one have his number I have a 12 volt waeco fridge that needs repair I’m thinking he might be the man. I lost his card with number ect

bearlikesbeer11:16 am 15 Feb 13

I wouldn’t leave fridges and washing machines in my front yard. I’d be worried about local kids or pets climbing into them, or tipping them over.

Gungahlin Al said :

Some neighbours are just nothing short of arseholes.
Can you imagine living next to this? Can you imagine trying to sell?
Is it any wonder neighbours come to blows?

And WildTurkey? That’s the lamest troll from you yet.

You surprise me Al! Actually, I can imagine living next to Warren. I know the people that own the house next door. He’s a lovely bloke and a great neighbour. His yard wasn’t a consideration for my friends when they bought.

He’ll also do you a great deal on a fridge (I’ve bought two over the last twenty years) and repair things for a fraction of the price of a commercial outfit. If this was happening in some other city people would think it adds to the overall character (and indeed utility) of the place. Personally I think it’s more admirable and generally productive for Warren to be providing the good folk of c-town with cheap recycled whitegoods than it is for the RA interweb agit propers to be bleating from their behind their keyboards.

bleebleeblee10:38 am 15 Feb 13

devils_advocate said :

bleebleeblee said :

keeping the neighbours’ house values down?! i doubt it in kaleen but if so then think of fridge guy as a natural check on prices – the first home buyer’s friend. personally i think warren and whatsername sound like they have some pluck – no bad thing in neighbours, and they’d be able to fix your fridge for you.

By that rationale we should be thanking violent criminals and arsonists for having the courage to place downward pressure on house prices around their suburbs. However, on balance I think the harm this kind of extreme behaviour poses far outweighs any collateral benefit in terms of reducing asset prices.

I don’t see violent criminality/arson as in any way comparable to having a running dispute with ACAT about a front yard, myself. Try as I might I can’t understand the outrage about this. What exactly is the “harm” caused by seeing white goods on a lawn? It’s an annoyance, maybe, if you’re that troubled by what someone else does with their yard. Yes it’ll keep Delegate from taking out Neat Street of 2013 but a bit of live and let wouldn’t hurt.

thebrownstreak69 said :

Call the scrap metal guys who do free pickup in return for not paying you anything and give them the address. Problem solved.

Sorry, there’s no free metal pick up in the ACT anymore. In fact your have to pay THEM to pick up the scrap.

devils_advocate5:49 pm 14 Feb 13

bleebleeblee said :

keeping the neighbours’ house values down?! i doubt it in kaleen but if so then think of fridge guy as a natural check on prices – the first home buyer’s friend. personally i think warren and whatsername sound like they have some pluck – no bad thing in neighbours, and they’d be able to fix your fridge for you.

By that rationale we should be thanking violent criminals and arsonists for having the courage to place downward pressure on house prices around their suburbs. However, on balance I think the harm this kind of extreme behaviour poses far outweighs any collateral benefit in terms of reducing asset prices.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd5:26 pm 14 Feb 13

TailgaterHater said :

Seems every suburb has one. In Duffy it’s at 22 Tullaroop Street where the guy has a backyard panel beating business, unfortunately it’s in his front yard! When you look at the place, you have to wonder how good his work might be if his maintenance to his property and the fact that he obviously has complete disrepect for his unfortunate neighbours is any guide? Seems he parks half wrecked and unregistered cars up and down the local streets too, very considerate to the locals!

Looking through street view, Duffy seems to be the loser, especially mirrool st. One house that seems to rival the house in op and one disgustingly huge what appears to be a spray booth for cars.

I wonder what would happen of these places got reported? Same as kaleen?

devils_advocate said :

Billy_Shears said :

Love these new tourist attractions – can we get a list of 100 together and send it to the Centenary people?

I want a tour bus, not unlike the real kramer tour of new york. I would gladly pay for my international guests to see this aspect of our nation’s capital, just for the LOLS.

Many moons ago, there was a bus tour that operated from Queanbeyan/Harman that did this very thing. Pat’s Uninteresting Tours.

Unfortunately, by the time I arrived at Harman in 1990, it was done and dusted.

GardeningGirl3:28 pm 14 Feb 13

Grrrr said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

It’s just a home business repairing whitegoods.

He’s too tight to rent/buy himself a shed somewhere industrial like he’s supposed to, and he’s clearly got a requirement for it due to more than a garage worth of business.

So you can tell us all you want about how nice he is to customers, but he’s still a jerk to anyone that lives near him.

+1

Robertson said :

All in all, there’s a lot of slop there, as well as a healthy dose of extremely anal upper-middle-class petty white-picket-fence mentality and the conditions of ACT leaseholds should be rewritten to provide better protections for leaseholders. privacy from government interference.

I haven’t read it yet, but I gotta say, if I wanted to live in something that looks like Fyshwick instead of leafy suburbia I’d live in Fyshwick and I’d feel discriminated against if somebody tried to change the neighbourhood I’d bought into into something completely different to what it started out to be. On the other hand there is those multistorey terraces in Gungahlin with commercial ground floors as an example of something a bit different for Canberra so I reckon there’s completely potential for providing small business people with appropriate affordable places to live and work without them having to leave dumps of stuff right in the middle of suburbia.
This is getting as bad as the cyclist threads. There’s room for ALL of us, but it has to be done with some consideration for the needs of ALL.
Going to read links now.

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY, if you want some light reading about the efforts that ACTPLA have been through in an attempt to have it cleaned up.

http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

2. Clean up the leasehold and keep it clean by removing items including, but not limited to, whitegoods, parts of whitegoods, lawn mowers, parts of lawn mowers, motor vehicles, parts of motor vehicles, trailers, parts of trailers, tyres, sheet metal, metal poles, oil drums, bicycles and parts of bicycles; and

bleebleeblee3:10 pm 14 Feb 13

keeping the neighbours’ house values down?! i doubt it in kaleen but if so then think of fridge guy as a natural check on prices – the first home buyer’s friend. personally i think warren and whatsername sound like they have some pluck – no bad thing in neighbours, and they’d be able to fix your fridge for you.

devils_advocate2:46 pm 14 Feb 13

thatsnotme said :

Robertson said :

…the conditions of ACT leaseholds should be rewritten to provide better protections for leaseholders….

You realise that goes both ways right? Or do the rights of a white collar leaseholder who’s unlucky enough to live next door to a blue collar worker who’s decided to turn their home into a mini-industrial estate take a back seat in your view?

I read that as recognising the need for balance in terms of the leaseholder that owns the land and the leaseholders surrounding it. But I could be wrong.

In any case, it’s normally not *discrimination* against blue-collar jobs per se, but just the fact that things such as panel beating, large durable goods repair (or more to the point, storage), automotive spray-painting, and hydroponic progagation tend to impose larger costs on the neighbors than ‘white collar’ or more discreet home businesses, such as web design, management consulting, or prostitution.

Robertson said :

…the conditions of ACT leaseholds should be rewritten to provide better protections for leaseholders….

You realise that goes both ways right? Or do the rights of a white collar leaseholder who’s unlucky enough to live next door to a blue collar worker who’s decided to turn their home into a mini-industrial estate take a back seat in your view?

Skidbladnir said :

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY
http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

What a nice insight into the ACT Public Service…
Despite these tenants having received tidy-up orders roughly every 18 months for twenty years and each time dragged kicking-and-screaming into eventual compliance (and as a result being almost singularly experienced with the requirements of tidy-up order compliance), the residents claimed the requirements of a tidy-up order were now too broadly-defined to be enforced by anybody except the resident without significant invasion of personal liberty, and as a result impaired their ability to conduct activities (such as a home business), so the expansive requirements of the Tidy-Up Order were a violation of their privacy this time?

Even if you accept their rigidly cross-referenced definitions (of businesses, home business, structural confies of storage, etc) or the fact that poeple at ACTPLA decided to explicitly identify sub-items which needed to be removed nstead of the original “Its all crap and get rid of it please” orders they had been receiveing (and accepting) for years, some incompetent at ACTPLA decided to respond to them as legitimate equals instead of intentional repeat offenders.

That was way more eloquently put than my comment, though we came to similar conclusions.

One of the arguments the property owners used in the court case was that ACTPLA’s instructions to remove clutter from the place were not specific enough because they did not describe in detail what needed to be removed. There’s also the argument that “clean” is something entirely different from “tidy” (my interpretation of the proceedings).

The magistrate did seem to agree with the wording of the order being too vague, but didn’t think it was enough grounds to accept the owners’ request for a review of the order.

The owner also tried to argue that he wasn’t running a business but than voluntarily gave examples of selling goods from his house. I think he claimed only to be selling goods cheaply to low-income earners. He claims he also does work for charities, which is nice. But it’s just the wrong place to be doing this from. Surely some charity could offer him some space somewhere where he wouldn’t annoy the neighbours?

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY
http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

What a nice insight into the ACT Public Service…
Despite these tenants having received tidy-up orders roughly every 18 months for twenty years and each time dragged kicking-and-screaming into eventual compliance (and as a result being almost singularly experienced with the requirements of tidy-up order compliance), the residents claimed the requirements of a tidy-up order were now too broadly-defined to be enforced by anybody except the resident without significant invasion of personal liberty, and as a result impaired their ability to conduct activities (such as a home business), so the expansive requirements of the Tidy-Up Order were a violation of their privacy this time?

Even if you accept their rigidly cross-referenced definitions (of businesses, home business, structural confies of storage, etc) or the fact that poeple at ACTPLA decided to explicitly identify sub-items which needed to be removed nstead of the original “Its all crap and get rid of it please” orders they had been receiveing (and accepting) for years, some incompetent at ACTPLA decided to respond to them as legitimate equals instead of intentional repeat offenders.

devils_advocate said :

From my very quick skim of this case, it seems like ACTPLA issued a notice to remedy, the leasholders applied to ACAT for review, and the tribunal dismissed the application on the grounds it was frivolous and vexatious (in turn, on the grounds it was foredoomed to fail). So I presume the order is still in force or otherwise valid, and if it wasn’t complied with there should be some other proceedings in train.

As for the previous 20 years (since 1994) it seems as if the approach to enforcement/administration was a bit inconsistent, as was the behaviour of the leaseholders. In some cases it seems like they actually complied, more or less, with what was required; in other cases consent orders were reached, presumably because the leaseholders offered a resolution that was acceptable to PALM/ACTPLA or whatever it was called at the time; and for whatever reason they thought the applicants would comply.

I took three other things away from reading this:

1. You are permitted to conduct a business on a residential lease provided the business occupies an area of no more than 40 metres. This is repeated twice within the decision, so it isn’t a typo.
Two problems with this:
a- “40 metres” is not an area.
b- Clearly, this discriminates very heavily against blue-collar occupations.

2. You are permitted to conduct your business provided it isn’t visible from outside the lease.
Again, two problems:
a- as Google shows, it isn’t possible to conduct such a business that is invisible unless it is entirely indoors
b- This discriminates very heavily against bluye collar occupations

3. Your business has to be conducted in approved structures on your lease
a- “approved structure” includes “fence”
b- they didn’t to interpret “in”

All in all, there’s a lot of slop there, as well as a healthy dose of extremely anal upper-middle-class petty white-picket-fence mentality and the conditions of ACT leaseholds should be rewritten to provide better protections for leaseholders. privacy from government interference.

TailgaterHater11:30 am 14 Feb 13

Seems every suburb has one. In Duffy it’s at 22 Tullaroop Street where the guy has a backyard panel beating business, unfortunately it’s in his front yard! When you look at the place, you have to wonder how good his work might be if his maintenance to his property and the fact that he obviously has complete disrepect for his unfortunate neighbours is any guide? Seems he parks half wrecked and unregistered cars up and down the local streets too, very considerate to the locals!

devils_advocate11:10 am 14 Feb 13

Billy_Shears said :

Love these new tourist attractions – can we get a list of 100 together and send it to the Centenary people?

I want a tour bus, not unlike the real kramer tour of new york. I would gladly pay for my international guests to see this aspect of our nation’s capital, just for the LOLS.

wildturkeycanoe said :

It’s just a home business repairing whitegoods.

He’s too tight to rent/buy himself a shed somewhere industrial like he’s supposed to, and he’s clearly got a requirement for it due to more than a garage worth of business.

So you can tell us all you want about how nice he is to customers, but he’s still a jerk to anyone that lives near him.

devils_advocate10:47 am 14 Feb 13

Jethro said :

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY, if you want some light reading about the efforts that ACTPLA have been through in an attempt to have it cleaned up.

http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

So basically twenty years and the government has been unable to solve it.

From my very quick skim of this case, it seems like ACTPLA issued a notice to remedy, the leasholders applied to ACAT for review, and the tribunal dismissed the application on the grounds it was frivolous and vexatious (in turn, on the grounds it was foredoomed to fail). So I presume the order is still in force or otherwise valid, and if it wasn’t complied with there should be some other proceedings in train.

As for the previous 20 years (since 1994) it seems as if the approach to enforcement/administration was a bit inconsistent, as was the behaviour of the leaseholders. In some cases it seems like they actually complied, more or less, with what was required; in other cases consent orders were reached, presumably because the leaseholders offered a resolution that was acceptable to PALM/ACTPLA or whatever it was called at the time; and for whatever reason they thought the applicants would comply.

The problem is that it appears the leaseholders are able to temporarily comply with the requirements, even for a short time, have an inspection to show they’ve complied and then go back to business as usual. This would be at most an inconvenience, certainly not a deterrence.

Realistically nothing can or will come of this until ACTPLA mans up and exercises its power of entry and seizure, then issues a bill to the leaseholders. They seem to have pushed their model litigant aspirations well beyond their usefulness.

Billy_Shears said :

Love these new tourist attractions – can we get a list of 100 together and send it to the Centenary people?

21 Northmore cres Higgins. The guy has about 20 cars on his property. Government clean it up every few years and give him a skip every now and then.

Takes him only a matter of months to clutter it right back up again. Usually worse than what it was.

There was a large skip in his front yard for about 2 months. Pretty sure when it got picked up it was less than 25% full and most of that would have been from the neighbourhood using it.

Billy_Shears9:50 am 14 Feb 13

Love these new tourist attractions – can we get a list of 100 together and send it to the Centenary people?

460cixy said :

I got a fridge of that bloke got price good fridge nice bloke too.

We bought our second hand washing machine from him about three years ago, with delivery and 1 year warranty included in a great price. Since then I have had occassion to call him twice to assist with something breaking down on the machine, he provided awesome over the phone troubleshooting on both occasions and spare parts (with detailed instructions on how to fit them myself) at less than it would cost for a washing machine repair man to take his first breath inside the door!

devils_advocate8:54 am 14 Feb 13

melon1234 said :

I found this place in Richardson last year whilst house shopping. The house behind it was for sale, so I’m sure glad I looked on Nearmaps and Google Maps to notice what I may have been living next to. It’s a shame Nearmaps removed the free personal user option, as shots over the past 3-4 years showed the only thing that changed was the addition of more cars/boats to the front yard.

16 Howson Place for those playing at home.

http://www.filedump.net/dumped/howson11360743234.png
http://www.filedump.net/dumped/howson21360743234.png

From the street view it doesn’t look so bad, a few boats under tarpaulins and behind a line of shrubs. Aerial view is a bit more disturbing though…

I got a fridge of that bloke got price good fridge nice bloke too.

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY, if you want some light reading about the efforts that ACTPLA have been through in an attempt to have it cleaned up.

http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

” The storage area contained a body of material which Mr Gardner compared to an auto wrecker s premises, though the depth and the thickness of the piles of material made it difficult to classify what type of material was contained there. The material appeared to be predominantly white goods however there was material from a range of sources, some identifiable some unidentifiable.”

It’s the vibe your honour. It’s just… the vibe.

Thanks for posting that link. It’s an excellent read.

thebrownstreak696:58 am 14 Feb 13

rosscoact said :

milkman said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Call the scrap metal guys who do free pickup in return for not paying you anything and give them the address. Problem solved.

+1 to this. One phone call and it’s all gone.

Or at least one phone call and watch the fun through the venetian blinds

Ha! Please post the video.

Wow, if only there was an Australian version of A&E’s show, Hoarders…

liability said :

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY, if you want some light reading about the efforts that ACTPLA have been through in an attempt to have it cleaned up.

http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

So basically twenty years and the government has been unable to solve it.

I remember a similar house in Brisbane. The city council gave the owners something like 90 days to clean their front yard up and then sent in a dump truck and workers to cart everything away, with the bill for removal sent to the home owner.

I wonder if the neighbours would have any legal remedy for the devaluation of their property?

It looks like if you want a free fridge, dishwasher, dryer etc, Delegate Street in Kambah is the place to go. Roll up after dark and take your pick.

The neighbours will applaud you!

WARREN GARDNER & JULIE BEAVER v ACT PLANNING AND LAND AUTHORITY, if you want some light reading about the efforts that ACTPLA have been through in an attempt to have it cleaned up.

http://www.acat.act.gov.au/judgment/view/4381/title/warren-gardner-julie-beaver

HiddenDragon10:16 pm 13 Feb 13

All that stuff under the canopy of the tree on the left in the top picture would be interfering with the flow of rainwater to the roots of the tree and would thus amount to a strict liability offence of high treason (or something like that) under the relevant tree protection legislation with, as I recall it, a mandatory penalty of life imprisonment and a one million dollar fine (at least).

Meanwhile, dutiful, forelock-tugging folk of this fair town will be applying in triplicate and consulting at length with every householder within half a mile about the design and siting of a new letterbox. There are times when urban administration in this town is a complete and utter farce – one ridiculous bloody thing laughing at another.

The preceding comments are, of course, on the basis that the images are current and the mess has not, or is not shortly to be, cleaned up.

wildturkeycanoe said :

It’s just a home business repairing whitegoods. Good on ’em I reckon, instead of chucking it out, they are fixing it. Maybe it’s just someone waiting for a big truck so they can take it all in one go to scrap? Either way, big deal.[b] Nothing to see.[/b]

Sure.. if you’re blind. Wake up to yourself.

Gungahlin Al9:53 pm 13 Feb 13

Some neighbours are just nothing short of arseholes.
Can you imagine living next to this? Can you imagine trying to sell?
Is it any wonder neighbours come to blows?

And WildTurkey? That’s the lamest troll from you yet.

milkman said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

Call the scrap metal guys who do free pickup in return for not paying you anything and give them the address. Problem solved.

+1 to this. One phone call and it’s all gone.

Or at least one phone call and watch the fun through the venetian blinds

wildturkeycanoe9:08 pm 13 Feb 13

It’s just a home business repairing whitegoods. Good on ’em I reckon, instead of chucking it out, they are fixing it. Maybe it’s just someone waiting for a big truck so they can take it all in one go to scrap? Either way, big deal. Nothing to see.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd9:04 pm 13 Feb 13

Haha, thing is, there is no more free scrap pick ups besides ferals like these. They are all hoarding while ez scrap and the like have their doors shut.

grunge_hippy9:01 pm 13 Feb 13

9 coningham st gowrie also has an impressive car yard happening. It used to have more… must have had a clean out. Still over 18 cars in the yard.

This is nothing compared to what it used to look like about 5-6 years ago. He used to use quite a lot of the reserve besides his house too before being ordered to remove it by TAMS. You may notice in the aerial shots that the reserve has a line of boulders to restrict vehicular access to the side of his property which is a feature you won’t find on most urban parks.

screaming banshee7:56 pm 13 Feb 13

I’m sure this place has been the subject of a previous post

thebrownstreak69 said :

Call the scrap metal guys who do free pickup in return for not paying you anything and give them the address. Problem solved.

+1 to this. One phone call and it’s all gone.

I found this place in Richardson last year whilst house shopping. The house behind it was for sale, so I’m sure glad I looked on Nearmaps and Google Maps to notice what I may have been living next to. It’s a shame Nearmaps removed the free personal user option, as shots over the past 3-4 years showed the only thing that changed was the addition of more cars/boats to the front yard.

16 Howson Place for those playing at home.

http://www.filedump.net/dumped/howson11360743234.png
http://www.filedump.net/dumped/howson21360743234.png

Hmmm… we can’t identify cars that are parking badly/wrongly/illegally/dangerously but it’s OK to identify an address where various items have been placed in the front yard?

thebrownstreak695:18 pm 13 Feb 13

Call the scrap metal guys who do free pickup in return for not paying you anything and give them the address. Problem solved.

WOW! That is very disturbing. I’ll take the crane and some unkempt gardens any day.

This is blatant hoarding though. There could be issues with vermin and pedestrian hazards. One hopes there is scope for this crap to be forcibly towed, surely.

Maybe that nice @Cmdr_Hadfield will take a picture of the whitegoods mountain from space.

Put Kaleen on the (places to avoid) map

Is this the group house that ‘aceofspades’ and ‘antigonist’ live in ? Can understand now why they put up a spirited defence that you can have as much gear on your front lawn as you can fit in.

Ah, that explains the massive trailer full of washing machines in the green space! I had been wondering.

This trumps the Chifley crane by a fair margin I’d say.

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