12 June 2012

The airport going it alone with high speed rail

| johnboy
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rail terminal design

Canberra Airport have announced their latest grand plan.

They’ve unveiled plans for a high speed rail terminal at the airport, despite there being no high speed rail line.

“This terminal will provide a seamless interface for passengers arriving in Canberra by air ready for their 57
minute train trip to Sydney.

“The facility will cost $140 million (in 2012 dollars) and take two years to build.

“Canberra Airport is today committing to funding the HSR terminal project and will be in a position to consider a start date once the timetable for the HSR is confirmed.”

Mr Byron said Stage Two of the Commonwealth Government’s HSR study was due to be completed by the end of this year, including finalising recommendations for the route.

“We know that Sydney Airport and its surrounding transport infrastructure are already facing capacity issues, and that the Joint Study into Aviation Capacity for the Sydney Region advised that passenger demand in the region (including Canberra and Newcastle) will increase from the 2010 level of 40 million to 58 million in 2020 and 88 million by 2035.

“We also know from Stage One of the HSR study that patronage demand for regional fast train services to and from Canberra will be 11 million in 2036, that the cost per trip between Canberra and Sydney will be around $40 for non-business and $95 for business. The Infrastructure Partners Australia (IPA) report tells us the trip from Canberra to Sydney will take 57 minutes.

“The high speed rail will be a significant, nation-building project with substantial benefits to the Australian economy, from jobs during construction and for the local steel industry, to international tourism, as well as relieving the congestion endured by Sydneysiders as the population grows to six million in 2036.

“The HSR from Canberra to Sydney should be delivered by 2020, with the terminal at Canberra Airport constructed over the last two years of that period.”


UPDATE 12/06/12 16:01 The Greens are thrilled but want a station in Civic too.

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I had a look at the department of infrastructure’s report into high speed rail and what it did put forward as the main suggestion was that the Canberra section would operate as a spur line to the main Melbourne to Sydney HSR line.

Now you may be thinking why wouldn’t the line just go west after Canberra. The main reason for this is that the terrain west of Canberra is quite mountainous and would require billion of dollars worth of tunnels, so to reduce cost, Canberra will be a terminus.

Now what I suggest for Canberra is a terminal around the Kingston/Majura corridor so that the track can use the flat and unpopulated area (to reduce cost) and a light metro link (not a tram) to the city as a part of a Canberra light metro system. A trip from the city to the train terminal should take less than 10 minutes and cost significantly less than building a station at the city.

Madam Cholet said :

Primal said :

Holden Caulfield said :

I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

For a weekend away in Sydney, the notion of being able to park at the airport and get to Sydney in under an hour by train? Would be awesome.

You seem to think that you will still be alive when they finally build this. Even if they do build it in your lifetime, you might be holed up in your old-aged pensioners accommdation being spoon fed by then

Looks like someone here’s an optimist.. (I’m being the most sarcastic I can be, if you didn’t get it already)

Madam Cholet12:50 pm 14 Jun 12

Primal said :

Holden Caulfield said :

I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

For a weekend away in Sydney, the notion of being able to park at the airport and get to Sydney in under an hour by train? Would be awesome.

You seem to think that you will still be alive when they finally build this. Even if they do build it in your lifetime, you might be holed up in your old-aged pensioners accommdation being spoon fed by then

mcs said :

Perhaps I don’t have very sensitive ears in terms of pressure – as I’ve travelled across Europe on HSR, including on the Eurostar and on the 250 km/h + DB and OBB Railjets, and the only time ive really noticed the pressure effect was in the Chunnel Tunnel on the Eurostar, which is understandable. Apart from that I’ve never really noticed the effect to be honest. I suppose for 99% of people it really isn’t a particularly noticeable effect, but of course there are always some people that will have trouble. Just like with people that have trouble with their ears when flying.

Go and catch the TGV Atantique from Paris to the South East of France. This line was built with small sections of tunnels where trains operate at true high speed. On this line the pressure shock entering the tunnel is very noticeable. Due to this the next batch of trains they ordered were pressurised to minimise to pressure shock.

But as I said above the big issue with long tunnels isn’t passenger comfort but air resistance. A train in a tunnel is like a big plunger and the faster you go the more resistance. You have 3 options. One is to make the tunnel larger, this is what happens in small length tunnels, two you slow down, which is what happens in the channel tunnel, the tunnel into London and many European tunnels or you somehow get more power into the train to push on. The first and last options are not easy nor cheap so slow down is the prefered option.

lindilou said :

Why don’t you take a look Federal Government’s stage 1 report? And the HSR route would mostly have to be above ground anyways, like in Japan, which also helps reduce noise pollution!

HSR cannot run in tunnels anyway due to air resistance within tunnels. At high speed you need a massively oversized tunnel plus somewhere for the air to escape.

However that being said there is no reason why you couldn’t have a smaller length of tunnel near the end (under Northborne) that operates at lower speed. HS1 which is the line the Eurostar runs on from London to the channel tunnel is a good example. This line runs in tunnel for 20-30km under East London but runs at 200km/h (which is considered low speed for Europe). Once clear of the tunnel it speeds up to 300km/h+ then slows again for the channel tunnel then up again in France.

If we were to use France as an example what they seem to do is place TGV stations on the through line even if that is out of town. So lets say the line from Melb to Syd ran to the north of Canberra the station would probably need to be in the fields out the back of hall.

poetix said :

There is something delightfully Thunderbirds about that image or model of the airport with the little planes all lined up. I’m just waiting for Virgil and Brains, and Parker and Lady Penelope in Fab 1. I hope at least one other person knows what I’m talking about!

Brains’ sister is currently on Masterchef. But the planes all parked around the cardboard terminal look a bit like something Lady Penelope would be involved in. Unfortunately, the Misterons are on to it.

There is something delightfully Thunderbirds about that image or model of the airport with the little planes all lined up. I’m just waiting for Virgil and Brains, and Parker and Lady Penelope in Fab 1. I hope at least one other person knows what I’m talking about!

EvanJames said :

caf said :

EvanJames said :

The bloody airport, what they’re going to build is a train terminal! That’s it! No tracks, no nothing. Just a terminal. What on earth are they up to this time? Building a huge, multi-million dollar terminal will pressure the government into building them a train line to Sydney?

I don’t think you read very far into the article. They’ve announced plans; they haven’t said they’re actually going to execute on the plans (which would be very silly). In particular:

[the airport] will be in a position to consider a start date once the timetable for the HSR is confirmed.”

They’ve had all kinds of plans for their various train dreams. I’ve seen one set (I think the terminal was under their projected Airport Hotel).

What this looks like is Snow builds a giant shed, calls it a train terminal, and then screws up his fists and demands the government do something about the lack of a train. And tracks.

No, it doesn’t. It looks a lot more like: Snow gets some pictures drawn of a train terminal, and offers to build it if there’ll be a train for it. Nowhere is it said or implied that the terminal would be built without a train, and the idea is preposterous.

That aside, I agree that governments shouldn’t let themselves be pressured by this kind of corporate lobbying – but nonetheless such lobbying is Snow’s right.

dungfungus said :

HSR can’t use tunnels as the pressure wave is very uncomfortable for the passengers. It isn’t going to happen in this century anyway.

Actually it’s as bad as you say. Japan’s HSRs go through many tunnels and I’ve only experience a little pressure, which can be relieved very easily (by trying to exhale through your nose while blocking it). The pressure you get is equivalent to what you get on an airplane.

EvanJames said :

They’ve had all kinds of plans for their various train dreams. I’ve seen one set (I think the terminal was under their projected Airport Hotel).

What this looks like is Snow builds a giant shed, calls it a train terminal, and then screws up his fists and demands the government do something about the lack of a train. And tracks.

Just because some rich privateer wants to get richer, doesn’t mean he gets to rail-road the government to spend tax dollars to faciliate the process. Even the non-experts in transport here can see that a train based at the aiport is a terrible idea.

I support more rail insfrastructure, we have a lot of catching-up to do. But this is one thing that does need to be properly scoped and studied, because it’s stunningly expensive and it has to be got right. Letting Snow’s mob dictate how it will happen is a bad, rotten idea.

Thank you!

EvanJames said :

do you know why that is? The aiport made it so. It contracted out the Airport bus service to Deanes buslines (queanbeyan). Action cannot go there. Action does go to Majura Park, and Fairbairn Park, but it has to go past the airport.

I’ve always wondered that. Thanks for that. Stupid Canberra Airport.. They don’t care about Canberrans at all!

dungfungus said :

I honestly don’t know anyone who has caught a bus from the Canberra Airport to the city – in fact I don’t know anyone who has caught a bus (except on a pre-arranged tour) from any airport anywhere.
Most people are either picked by colleagues or family up or they catch a cab. I can’t imagine anyone spending thousands of dollars on an overseas trip returning to Canberra to catch a series of buses to get home; they usually pay the $50 (maximum payable for the extremities of Canberra) for a cab. Imagine trying to lug a couple of suitcases on and off an Action bus “Could you help me Mr. bus driver?” Yeah, right.

Which is why we need light rail or better!

dungfungus said :

fun size said :

dungfungus said :

HSR can’t use tunnels as the pressure wave is very uncomfortable for the passengers. It isn’t going to happen in this century anyway.

The HSR in China uses tunnels. From my memory, the pressure change going into them at 300km/h was noticeable but not unpleasant.

Fair comment but I think these Chinese tunnels are at very high altitudes (9000 metres) where the air is relatively thin and the carriages may be pressurised – they certainly have oxygen available. The effect is much greater and uncomfortable at about 1000 metres. I have travelled on the “standard speed” trains (160 kmh) between Paris and Frankfurt and the tunnel pressure effect is quite painful on the ears. It is worse when another train passes while still in the tunnel.

Perhaps I don’t have very sensitive ears in terms of pressure – as I’ve travelled across Europe on HSR, including on the Eurostar and on the 250 km/h + DB and OBB Railjets, and the only time ive really noticed the pressure effect was in the Chunnel Tunnel on the Eurostar, which is understandable. Apart from that I’ve never really noticed the effect to be honest. I suppose for 99% of people it really isn’t a particularly noticeable effect, but of course there are always some people that will have trouble. Just like with people that have trouble with their ears when flying.

I like the idea of high speed rail in this country, in fact I think it would be wonderful, but there is very little political will to make it happen, so I can’t see it happening any time soon. And like others, I’d much prefer a station closer to civic.

EvanJames said :

lindilou said :

Almost non-existent public transport with ACTION Buses not serving the airport, all we have is that “Airport Express” thing… Absolutely useless and expensive!

do you know why that is? The aiport made it so. It contracted out the Airport bus service to Deanes buslines (queanbeyan). Action cannot go there. Action does go to Majura Park, and Fairbairn Park, but it has to go past the airport.

I honestly don’t know anyone who has caught a bus from the Canberra Airport to the city – in fact I don’t know anyone who has caught a bus (except on a pre-arranged tour) from any airport anywhere.
Most people are either picked by colleagues or family up or they catch a cab. I can’t imagine anyone spending thousands of dollars on an overseas trip returning to Canberra to catch a series of buses to get home; they usually pay the $50 (maximum payable for the extremities of Canberra) for a cab. Imagine trying to lug a couple of suitcases on and off an Action bus “Could you help me Mr. bus driver?” Yeah, right.

fun size said :

dungfungus said :

HSR can’t use tunnels as the pressure wave is very uncomfortable for the passengers. It isn’t going to happen in this century anyway.

The HSR in China uses tunnels. From my memory, the pressure change going into them at 300km/h was noticeable but not unpleasant.

Fair comment but I think these Chinese tunnels are at very high altitudes (9000 metres) where the air is relatively thin and the carriages may be pressurised – they certainly have oxygen available. The effect is much greater and uncomfortable at about 1000 metres. I have travelled on the “standard speed” trains (160 kmh) between Paris and Frankfurt and the tunnel pressure effect is quite painful on the ears. It is worse when another train passes while still in the tunnel.

dungfungus said :

HSR can’t use tunnels as the pressure wave is very uncomfortable for the passengers. It isn’t going to happen in this century anyway.

The HSR in China uses tunnels. From my memory, the pressure change going into them at 300km/h was noticeable but not unpleasant.

lindilou said :

Almost non-existent public transport with ACTION Buses not serving the airport, all we have is that “Airport Express” thing… Absolutely useless and expensive!

do you know why that is? The aiport made it so. It contracted out the Airport bus service to Deanes buslines (queanbeyan). Action cannot go there. Action does go to Majura Park, and Fairbairn Park, but it has to go past the airport.

caf said :

EvanJames said :

The bloody airport, what they’re going to build is a train terminal! That’s it! No tracks, no nothing. Just a terminal. What on earth are they up to this time? Building a huge, multi-million dollar terminal will pressure the government into building them a train line to Sydney?

I don’t think you read very far into the article. They’ve announced plans; they haven’t said they’re actually going to execute on the plans (which would be very silly). In particular:

[the airport] will be in a position to consider a start date once the timetable for the HSR is confirmed.”

They’ve had all kinds of plans for their various train dreams. I’ve seen one set (I think the terminal was under their projected Airport Hotel).

What this looks like is Snow builds a giant shed, calls it a train terminal, and then screws up his fists and demands the government do something about the lack of a train. And tracks.

Just because some rich privateer wants to get richer, doesn’t mean he gets to rail-road the government to spend tax dollars to faciliate the process. Even the non-experts in transport here can see that a train based at the aiport is a terrible idea.

I support more rail insfrastructure, we have a lot of catching-up to do. But this is one thing that does need to be properly scoped and studied, because it’s stunningly expensive and it has to be got right. Letting Snow’s mob dictate how it will happen is a bad, rotten idea.

LivesUnderBridgeEatingGoats2:30 pm 13 Jun 12

Will they also build a parking area for the unicorn I will ride to this station from home? I mean, while we’re discussing fantasy stories we might as well go the whole hog.

watto23 said :

Most of the high speed trains I caught in Europe stopped both at the main rail station and another stop in the city, eg Frankfurt airport. Its not a big stretch of the imagination to assum any VFT would need a CBD and airport stop in every city.
You’d also add stops along the route, so for the not so express servic trains could take 1 1/2 hours Canberra to Sydney but stop twice in places like Goulburn, Mittagong, Wollongong etc. Same for extending to Newcastle. You’d need two stops there, just because the airport is a lot further away from Newcastle.

Canberra isn’t a Frankfurt and it will never be so all comments about the VFT are largely academic because it isn’t going to happen.

EvanJames said :

The bloody airport, what they’re going to build is a train terminal! That’s it! No tracks, no nothing. Just a terminal. What on earth are they up to this time? Building a huge, multi-million dollar terminal will pressure the government into building them a train line to Sydney?

I don’t think you read very far into the article. They’ve announced plans; they haven’t said they’re actually going to execute on the plans (which would be very silly). In particular:

[the airport] will be in a position to consider a start date once the timetable for the HSR is confirmed.”

I’d like to know where the rail line splits. I only see a single line in, so where will the Canberra Airport line join the main line of the HSR?

Most of the high speed trains I caught in Europe stopped both at the main rail station and another stop in the city, eg Frankfurt airport. Its not a big stretch of the imagination to assum any VFT would need a CBD and airport stop in every city.
You’d also add stops along the route, so for the not so express servic trains could take 1 1/2 hours Canberra to Sydney but stop twice in places like Goulburn, Mittagong, Wollongong etc. Same for extending to Newcastle. You’d need two stops there, just because the airport is a lot further away from Newcastle.

lindilou said :

Felix the Cat said :

HSR can’t stop everywhere of it won’t be HSR. Passengers can take other public transport to Canberra city.

Almost non-existent public transport with ACTION Buses not serving the airport, all we have is that “Airport Express” thing… Absolutely useless and expensive! I mean, even the Greens want a station in the city!

Holden Caulfield said :

I know it’s not comparing apples with apples, but the airport seems to manage okay without having a terminal in the city, haha.

If pigs fly by my third floor window to announce that this HSR has indeed become a reality and a train can then get from Canberra to Melbourne in two hours, or whatever, I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

People would be a lot happier if public transport was existent from Civic to the airport.. Unfortunately, ACTION don’t service the airport and we get some crappy “Airport Express” service that only runs a few times a day (worse on weekends) and it costs $10..

Sammy said :

And where does your seemingly grander vision imagine that the high-speed rail line will travel? Down the centre of Northbourne Avenue? Gliding over top of intersections, held aloft by unicorns?

Why don’t you take a look Federal Government’s stage 1 report? And the HSR route would mostly have to be above ground anyways, like in Japan.

HSR can’t use tunnels as the pressure wave is very uncomfortable for the passengers. It isn’t going to happen in this century anyway.

Felix the Cat said :

HSR can’t stop everywhere of it won’t be HSR. Passengers can take other public transport to Canberra city.

Almost non-existent public transport with ACTION Buses not serving the airport, all we have is that “Airport Express” thing… Absolutely useless and expensive! I mean, even the Greens want a station in the city!

Holden Caulfield said :

I know it’s not comparing apples with apples, but the airport seems to manage okay without having a terminal in the city, haha.

If pigs fly by my third floor window to announce that this HSR has indeed become a reality and a train can then get from Canberra to Melbourne in two hours, or whatever, I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

People would be a lot happier if public transport was existent from Civic to the airport.. Unfortunately, ACTION don’t service the airport and we get some crappy “Airport Express” service that only runs a few times a day (worse on weekends) and it costs $10..

Sammy said :

And where does your seemingly grander vision imagine that the high-speed rail line will travel? Down the centre of Northbourne Avenue? Gliding over top of intersections, held aloft by unicorns?

Why don’t you take a look Federal Government’s stage 1 report? And the HSR route would mostly have to be above ground anyways, like in Japan.

Felix the Cat said :

HSR can’t stop everywhere of it won’t be HSR. Passengers can take other public transport to Canberra city.

Almost non-existent public transport with ACTION Buses not serving the airport, all we have is that “Airport Express” thing… Absolutely useless and expensive!

Holden Caulfield said :

lindilou said :

The airport has a limited vision, which doesn’t seek benefiting the wider community. The Federal Government wants the HSR go from Melbourne to Brisbane, however looking at the render it makes me think that they are only interested in connecting Canberra airport to Sydney for their own agenda. A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city, as it would be most accessible. Although, I can see some benefits in placing one at the airport (i.e. having international flights from Canberra), there has to be a station in the city also!

I know it’s not comparing apples with apples, but the airport seems to manage okay without having a terminal in the city, haha.

If pigs fly by my third floor window to announce that this HSR has indeed become a reality and a train can then get from Canberra to Melbourne in two hours, or whatever, I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

People would be a lot happier if public transport was existent from Civic to the airport.. Unfortunately, ACTION don’t service the airport and we get some crappy “Airport Express” service that only runs a few times a day (worse on weekends) and it costs $10..

Sammy said :

And where does your seemingly grander vision imagine that the high-speed rail line will travel? Down the centre of Northbourne Avenue? Gliding over top of intersections, held aloft by unicorns?

Why don’t you take a look Federal Government’s stage 1 report? And the HSR route would mostly have to be above ground anyways, like in Japan, which also helps reduce noise pollution!

Please for the love of god not at the airport. If we are going to do high speed rail lets do it properly.

Mr Gillespie said :

Just round it up to 1 HOUR.

But then you couldn’t say SYD-CBR in UNDER an hour.

dungfungus said :

I am really surprised that Messrs Mackay and Stanhope have made a counter offer by now to have the VFT station built at the Epicurial Arboretum (which is a publicly funded theme park)

which bright genius thought it would be a good idea to link them with the monorail?

EvanJames said :

The bloody airport, what they’re going to build is a train terminal! That’s it! No tracks, no nothing. Just a terminal. What on earth are they up to this time? Building a huge, multi-million dollar terminal will pressure the government into building them a train line to Sydney?

I guess they think it worked for getting a big new road around the airport, paid-for by taxpayers. The road was perfectly fine until Snow built a CBD at the airport and caused horrific rush-hour traffic jams. The government was pressured then, but I find it hard to believe that Snow’s Giant Shed will make them quiver in their boots and resolve to build him a few hundred kms of train track.

It’s been part of Snow’s plan since he bought the airport; either he’s getting desperate, or he’s up to something.

They’re building a privately financed theme park perhaps and this is going to be the “ghost train” amusement.
I am really surprised that Messrs Mackay and Stanhope have made a counter offer by now to have the VFT station built at the Epicurial Arboretum (which is a publicly funded theme park)

gooterz said :

This is proof that the carbon tax is just a tax.

Trains would use 1% of the fuel and airlines are one of the worst CO2 emitters.

Also if it did cost 20 billion that would pretty much pay for vacuum maglev and you would be there in 6 minutes rather than 60.

Another Avgas sniffer.

The bloody airport, what they’re going to build is a train terminal! That’s it! No tracks, no nothing. Just a terminal. What on earth are they up to this time? Building a huge, multi-million dollar terminal will pressure the government into building them a train line to Sydney?

I guess they think it worked for getting a big new road around the airport, paid-for by taxpayers. The road was perfectly fine until Snow built a CBD at the airport and caused horrific rush-hour traffic jams. The government was pressured then, but I find it hard to believe that Snow’s Giant Shed will make them quiver in their boots and resolve to build him a few hundred kms of train track.

It’s been part of Snow’s plan since he bought the airport; either he’s getting desperate, or he’s up to something.

Mr Gillespie8:09 pm 12 Jun 12

Chop71 said :

Funny how the airport can get to Sydney in 57 Mins (then add on approx 5 mins from Air terminal to train terminal) while the Greens get to Sydney in 45 mins. I can never understand Green logic, but who cares, just build the thing.

I do love the price estimates $40 Regular travel $95 Business Travel. If they can remain that low (which I doubt) every punter will catch it.

57 minutes and how many seconds?

Just round it up to 1 HOUR.

This is proof that the carbon tax is just a tax.

Trains would use 1% of the fuel and airlines are one of the worst CO2 emitters.

Also if it did cost 20 billion that would pretty much pay for vacuum maglev and you would be there in 6 minutes rather than 60.

Link to the website that has the history of the French TGV: http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/background.html
Quote from that website: “The new TGV was incredibly successful and gutted the Paris-Lyon airline business”

+100 Martin75

1. Reduction on road carnage saving childrens’ lives.

Primal said :

Holden Caulfield said :

I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

For a weekend away in Sydney, the notion of being able to park at the airport and get to Sydney in under an hour by train? Would be awesome.

Doubt the cost will stay at $40 but it would be ironic if it is cheaper than the cost of parking at the airport.

Frankly I’m past caring where the VFT stops in Canberra. Anywhere would be better than nothing and wasn’t the airport estimated to be much cheaper than the city? Perhaps if there is another stop out on the highway somewhere at least we wouldn’t be held to ransom by the airport as we’d have the choice to drive somewhere else to use it. Even a stop at Goulburn might make it viable to drive and park there rather than the time/cost with flying.

I think people would be less sceptical of the airport’s intentions if they gave a guarantee that, if the VFT went there, they wouldn’t charge a fee for public transport to and from the city to access it……..or any direct or indirect premium on passenger charges for using the VFT.

So typical of Snow Town. They want the terminal at the airport so they can build some nice new carparks and charge you a fortune to use them, or for you to use a taxi that has to pay their surcharge without costing them a brass razoo.

Personally getting away from my dislike of Snow Inc and what they have done to this town I really cannot see the logic in having the train terminal at the airport. Regardless of what these clowns think Canberra is NEVER going to be a second airport for Sydney, and if the fast train is built it will replace the bulk of the traffic from Sydney and to a lesser extent Melbourne, so there will be no need to have any ‘interchange’ at the airport.

A Canberra station should be built in the CBD. Yes it will cost a few squillion more, because clearly the only land into Canberra town is down past the airport, or a tunnel down Northborne which would be even more expensive. But the bloody thing should not be stopping anywhere near Snow town.

Sammy said :

lindilou said :

The airport has a limited vision … A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city

And where does your seemingly grander vision imagine that the high-speed rail line will travel? Down the centre of Northbourne Avenue? Gliding over top of intersections, held aloft by unicorns?

Well, in Japan they make do with concrete. Maybe unicorns were in short supply there.

PrinceOfAles5:02 pm 12 Jun 12

A better outcome for Canberra would be to have the train go into civic and Mr. Snow fund a light rail line from the airport to the city. Much better idea.

Funny how the airport can get to Sydney in 57 Mins (then add on approx 5 mins from Air terminal to train terminal) while the Greens get to Sydney in 45 mins. I can never understand Green logic, but who cares, just build the thing.

I do love the price estimates $40 Regular travel $95 Business Travel. If they can remain that low (which I doubt) every punter will catch it.

EvanJames said :

Yes, we need some decent rail infrastructure in this country, after what we had has been smashed to bits by governments over the past, four decades? but a political party for one type of train, ye gods.

You’ve answered your own concerns with your first sentence…

Due to the fact that successive past governments have done nothing for rail infrastructure in this country there is a need for an alternative approach.

do you…

a) do nothing and complain, letting the status quo prevail?

or

b) try an alternative approach and support the groups that are trying to make it happen?

martin75 said :

Hello Bullet Train Lovers,

The Bullet Train Party is running express to an election near you – ALL ABOARD!!
I joined up last week and I’m told the party would love more members.

What’s with all the cargo cults springing up?

Yes, we need some decent rail infrastructure in this country, after what we had has been smashed to bits by governments over the past, four decades? but a political party for one type of train, ye gods.

martin75 said :

Hello Bullet Train Lovers,

The Bullet Train Party is running express to an election near you – ALL ABOARD!!
I joined up last week and I’m told the party would love more members.

If you are a registered Canberra voter you can join the party now, and its 110% FREE

FREE online application
http://canberra.bullettrainsforaustralia.com/application-form.php

6 reasons why Canberra needs High Speed Rail (HSR):

1. Bullet trains are RAD!

2. A Bullet Train for Canberra will create thousands of jobs for Canberrans and the Region

3. A Bullet Train for Canberra will provide a real and green alternate to flying or driving from Canberra

4. A Bullet Train for Canberra will boost the local economy and the nation as a whole

5. A Bullet Train for Canberra will help the federal government reduce CO2 by cutting transport emissions

6. A Bullet Train for Canberra will ensure Canberra is at the cutting edge of green and efficient transport

You have had the lid off the Avgas can also.

martin75 said :

and its 110% FREE

110%? Does that mean you’ll pay me to join?

martin75 said :

http://canberra.bullettrainsforaustralia.com/application-form.php

Awesome, good to see someone being proactive about their idea. Hope it goes well and gets some traction into this project.

harvyk1 said :

You can already do that by plane…

But probably not for the same price, and frankly trains are just simpler to get on. No checking in, no security hoo-haa, etc.

Hello Bullet Train Lovers,

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VYBerlinaV8_is_back1:21 pm 12 Jun 12

Saying’s not paying.

DeadlySchnauzer1:17 pm 12 Jun 12

This is a publicity stunt and nothing else. Hooray Snow is ponying up $140 million…. now we just need someone else to pay the ~$20 billion it will cost to actually connect to a station in Sydney (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/rail/trains/high_speed/index.aspx).

Well, at least their HSR terminal with no trains will go well with their international terminal with no planes.

Chop71 said :

Good Work Canberra Airport.

Great to see someone with the balls to actually do something rather than talk about it for the next 50 years. Them getting on the front foot and building a terminal is quite smart and takes other terminal locations out of play if there is already one built.

+1

p1 said :

Built it and they will come?

Just like Brand Depot! That worked well.

Someone at the Costco International Airport where passenger movements are in steady decline, has been sniffing Avgas again.
They should read up on what the French TGV did to the airline business between Paris and Lyon.
This is almost as silly as the “24 hour freight hub” proposal.

Primal said :

Holden Caulfield said :

I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

For a weekend away in Sydney, the notion of being able to park at the airport and get to Sydney in under an hour by train? Would be awesome.

You can already do that by plane…
The HSR will exist for international pax, whilst no doubt locals can use the train, it is not been built for us.

I’ve been banging on about this for some time. Part of Snow’s original vision when buying the airport was to capitalise on the lack of a curfew, and bring in Sydney-bound international flights when Sydney is closed, process them here (customs and immigration) and then pack them into a fast train and ship them to Sydney, where they wanted to be in the first place. Almost a Narita model, or Gatwick/Heathrow, once you look at the distances.

He also had a dream of doing the same thing with freight (the model being an air movement on the runway every 2.5 minutes), however most VFT-type trains don’t do freight, so maybe that’s why it’s dropped off the agenda here.

Will be VERY interesting to see the full plans for the train tracks and stations. Some earlier plans I’ve seen, where the airport helpfully paid for full plans to be drafted up, had train tracks cutting straight through peoples’ homes in Pialligo.

And if he still wants to do the freight thing, he’s got the current train track that comes in via Qbn to Kingston, through Fyshwick. Woudln’t surprise me if he has some plans for a side track from the airport to a new freight terminal at Fyshwick. A land-grab will be necessary for that. And for his VFT to sydney. Lot of land between here and Sydney.

Good Work Canberra Airport.

Great to see someone with the balls to actually do something rather than talk about it for the next 50 years. Them getting on the front foot and building a terminal is quite smart and takes other terminal locations out of play if there is already one built.

Holden Caulfield said :

I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

For a weekend away in Sydney, the notion of being able to park at the airport and get to Sydney in under an hour by train? Would be awesome.

lindilou said :

The airport has a limited vision … A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city

And where does your seemingly grander vision imagine that the high-speed rail line will travel? Down the centre of Northbourne Avenue? Gliding over top of intersections, held aloft by unicorns?

Holden Caulfield12:38 pm 12 Jun 12

lindilou said :

The airport has a limited vision, which doesn’t seek benefiting the wider community. The Federal Government wants the HSR go from Melbourne to Brisbane, however looking at the render it makes me think that they are only interested in connecting Canberra airport to Sydney for their own agenda. A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city, as it would be most accessible. Although, I can see some benefits in placing one at the airport (i.e. having international flights from Canberra), there has to be a station in the city also!

I know it’s not comparing apples with apples, but the airport seems to manage okay without having a terminal in the city, haha.

If pigs fly by my third floor window to announce that this HSR has indeed become a reality and a train can then get from Canberra to Melbourne in two hours, or whatever, I’m pretty sure most punters will happily make the 15 minute commute from the City to the airport to get on board.

Built it and they will come?

Felix the Cat12:32 pm 12 Jun 12

lindilou said :

The airport has a limited vision, which doesn’t seek benefiting the wider community. The Federal Government wants the HSR go from Melbourne to Brisbane, however looking at the render it makes me think that they are only interested in connecting Canberra airport to Sydney for their own agenda. A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city, as it would be most accessible. Although, I can see some benefits in placing one at the airport (i.e. having international flights from Canberra), there has to be a station in the city also!

HSR can’t stop everywhere of it won’t be HSR. Passengers can take other public transport to Canberra city.

This is DOA.

The coalition have said they will submit these types of projects to the Productivity Commission.

When Abbott gets in next year this is effectively nixed.

Also, they should use Japanese HSR technology, which has a proven on-time and safety record!

The airport has a limited vision, which doesn’t seek benefiting the wider community. The Federal Government wants the HSR go from Melbourne to Brisbane, however looking at the render it makes me think that they are only interested in connecting Canberra airport to Sydney for their own agenda. A HSR going through Canberra would need to have a station in the city, as it would be most accessible. Although, I can see some benefits in placing one at the airport (i.e. having international flights from Canberra), there has to be a station in the city also!

CrocodileGandhi12:03 pm 12 Jun 12

Some brilliant Cargo Cult thinking there.

Bring it on. Someone really needs to bite the bullet (train) and make this happen.

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