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The fight to protect Canberra against noise sharing continues…

By toriness - 8 December 2009 82

Shamelessly cut and pasted from an email from Canberra Airport (and no I am in not in any way shape or form employed by related to mates with or anything to do with Terry Snow):

Today we ask for you to make your voice heard one more time.

The proposal for rezoning the land to the south of Canberra Airport for residential housing (Tralee) is open for public submissions. Join Canberra Airport along with many other concerned citizens and help prevent this rezoning and keep our homes undisturbed by aircraft noise.

Putting forward a submission is easy. You may either send an email to council@qcc.nsw.gov.au with the heading Tralee Rezoning (addressed to the Mayor or the General Manager) or send your submission by mail to:
Queanbeyan City Council
PO Box 90
Queanbeyan NSW 2620

All submissions are due no later than 4:30pm on 22 December 2009.

For further information on the draft rezoning please visit http://www.qcc.nsw.gov.au/page.aspx?page=9718

Many thanks for your consideration of this request – I’m sure that together we can help commonsense prevail.

[Ed] We also got a story in from moneypenny2612 addressing the same topic which I’ve included below.

moneypenny2612
Recently, Rioters engaged in a robust discussion about the proposed Tralee housing development.

Today, Ben Sandilands wrote an interesting opinion piece for Crikey. The edited highlights are:

[T]he reality of Tralee is that because of strict noise rules already applying to aircraft movements over Canberra and Queanbeyan, its rural splendour is the main conduit for flight paths that avoid the built-up areas.Building on Tralee conforms to the institutionalised cretinism of NSW planning’ processes, which is essentially what the federal government, AirServices Australia, Qantas and, surprise, the owners of Canberra Airport have all said.

By creating a situation where noise sharing rules by day and a curfew by night would become inevitable, the Tralee development cuts off the proposed development of curfew-free Canberra Airport as a 24 hours air-freight hub serving Sydney as well as the immediate region.

It also threatens the future use of Canberra Airport by medium-sized new technology wide-body jets to provide Sydney bypass flights to South-East Asia, China, Korea and Japan.

There is, however, a wider issue. Without efficient air transport, no city or region can develop its business, tourism and product distribution to their potential, and thus loses access to future growth in jobs and prosperity.

Queanbeyan risks injuring the city that sustains it.

But this is NSW. Tralee will go most likely go ahead, and Canberra and Queanbeyan will pay an enormous price.

There is more commentary on the always interesting Plane Talking blog (written by Sandilands) about the potential economic dividends for the ACT and Queanbeyan that would flow from expanding and improving the region’s transport capacity. Presumably these economic dividends would far exceed the contributions from aspiring Tralee rate payers?

So, leaving aside the matters of residential amenity that has attracted much RiotACT comment to date, does residential in-fill at Tralee improve the local economy? If so, in what ways and for how long?

Incidentally, the Queanbeyan City Council is consulting the public about the environmental impact of the proposed development at South Tralee – the closing date for submissions is 22 December 2009. Despite claiming that the consultation documents are available online the QCC seems to have forgotten to upload them or has hidden them somewhere even Google can’t find. If any Rioter manages to track down the e-versions, please let everyone know.

What’s Your opinion?


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82 Responses to
The fight to protect Canberra against noise sharing continues…
deezagood 1:33 pm 09 Dec 09

outdoormagoo said :

Here are some questions for the Canberran NIMBYs who want an Airport but don’t want the noise. Funny how you all want to positives of an airport, but don’t want any of the negatives.

1. Why should NSW get the aircraft noise from YOUR airport??
2. Why should we care what people in the ACT have to say?? The ACT has never taken anything that people from Queanbeyan have to say into consideration when planning. (eg. the jail)
3. What benefit does Queanbeyan gain from not allowing Tralee to go ahead?? Especially since a lot is gained by allowing it to be approved.

FYI. I want to live at Tralee and I am hoping it goes through. It would provide me with another option to buy a house. I choose to live in Queanbeyan because I do not want to leave NSW. My rego is cheaper, the laws are better and Stanhope has no say over what we do. I don’t suffer as badly from the ‘nanny state’ as ACT residents. Having just had our second child born in the QBN Hospital and having used it in an emergency, I would prefer to go there than either Canberra hospital. Especially after being taken to the Canberra Hospital after a head-on accident and being told I would not be moved to the ward because there were no beds and my family was unable to visit me where I was.

After going to Crace and looking at houses there and also looking at other developments in the ACT, I want Tralee to go ahead even more. Land of a decent size (550m2+ because I want a backyard and eaves on my house) at most places in the ACT was upwards of $280,000 – $300,000. Then it was about $375,000 to build a 4 bedroom house. And at Crace it looks like my only options for any utilities will be ACTEW/AGL/TransACT, all of who provide crap service and crap products at skyhigh prices.

I plan on sending an email now to go and inspect Tralee and I will advise if the noise levels change my mind. But the noise can’t be any worse than the noise of several thousand whingers in the ACT crying when they don’t get thier own way.

SO again I ask, what the hell is in it for NSW not to approve Tralee, and why should we care what you think.

Great response Outdoormagoo! I don’t necessarily agree with all of your points, but I admire your sass! I do agree that we really are a bunch of whingers here in the ACT 🙂

bd84 1:31 pm 09 Dec 09

outdoormagoo said :

Here are some questions for the Canberran NIMBYs who want an Airport but don’t want the noise. Funny how you all want to positives of an airport, but don’t want any of the negatives.

1. Why should NSW get the aircraft noise from YOUR airport??
2. Why should we care what people in the ACT have to say?? The ACT has never taken anything that people from Queanbeyan have to say into consideration when planning. (eg. the jail)
3. What benefit does Queanbeyan gain from not allowing Tralee to go ahead?? Especially since a lot is gained by allowing it to be approved.

FYI. I want to live at Tralee and I am hoping it goes through. It would provide me with another option to buy a house. I choose to live in Queanbeyan because I do not want to leave NSW. My rego is cheaper, the laws are better and Stanhope has no say over what we do. I don’t suffer as badly from the ‘nanny state’ as ACT residents. Having just had our second child born in the QBN Hospital and having used it in an emergency, I would prefer to go there than either Canberra hospital. Especially after being taken to the Canberra Hospital after a head-on accident and being told I would not be moved to the ward because there were no beds and my family was unable to visit me where I was.

After going to Crace and looking at houses there and also looking at other developments in the ACT, I want Tralee to go ahead even more. Land of a decent size (550m2+ because I want a backyard and eaves on my house) at most places in the ACT was upwards of $280,000 – $300,000. Then it was about $375,000 to build a 4 bedroom house. And at Crace it looks like my only options for any utilities will be ACTEW/AGL/TransACT, all of who provide crap service and crap products at skyhigh prices.

I plan on sending an email now to go and inspect Tralee and I will advise if the noise levels change my mind. But the noise can’t be any worse than the noise of several thousand whingers in the ACT crying when they don’t get thier own way.

SO again I ask, what the hell is in it for NSW not to approve Tralee, and why should we care what you think.

We don’t care what you think, at the end of the day the airport was there first. Any developments here or over in NSW should be subject to an assessment as to whether the current and future aircraft noise will effect them. Given people like complaining, the people living in the proposed Tralee development will have their panties in a twist when they realise that there is infact aircraft noise. Just look at the people in northern Canberra with theirs in a twist with the slightest bit of aircraft noise, they’re calling for curfews etc.

At the end of the day, I couldn’t care less if the development went ahead, as long as the developers and future residents lose all rights to complain about aircraft noise now and into the future. The residents of other areas of Canberra and NSW should not have to suffer for what may be a development mistake.

On a related matter, I noted the airport (guessing as they don’t claim obvious responsibility) have put some humerous cartoons about the development on a number of pages in the CT today.

harvyk1 1:26 pm 09 Dec 09

outdoormagoo, if you wish to live out at Tralee, do so, but don’t make a single squeek about aircraft noise, you know the airport is there, it was there first and YOU chose to move under a flight path. Despite it’s name “Canberra Airport” would you believe people from Queanbeyan also use the airport?

The other thing is Canberra airport has actually being doing a lot to send aircraft along corridors trying to avoid residential housing where possible. Building a development in the middle of the high noise corridor strikes me a idiocy in it’s finest.

Ken Ineson 1:03 pm 09 Dec 09

Responses to new comments:

Developments in areas with noise levels as low as Tralee have never resulted in a curfew.

I intend to buy property at Tralee.

We have undertaken over seven years of public consultation on Tralee. We have listened to the adjacent community at Jerrabomberra and we are making provision for the community facilities they have asked for including a private secondary school, an aquatic centre, a scouts hall, a road bypass of Jerrabomberra, etc, etc.

There are many highly desirable suburbs other than Double Bay with more aircraft noise than Tralee, including St Albans in Melbourne, Chermside in Brisbane, Greenmount in Perth, Glenside in Adelaide. Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth are curfew free. New developments are approved every year around other airports without problem in areas with more aircraft noise than Tralee.

The advantages that Tralee will have over office and retail areas at the airport is that people will live within walking disance and parking will be free.

I still havent had any acceptances from any of you people to come to the site and listen.

outdoormagoo 12:33 pm 09 Dec 09

Here are some questions for the Canberran NIMBYs who want an Airport but don’t want the noise. Funny how you all want to positives of an airport, but don’t want any of the negatives.

1. Why should NSW get the aircraft noise from YOUR airport??
2. Why should we care what people in the ACT have to say?? The ACT has never taken anything that people from Queanbeyan have to say into consideration when planning. (eg. the jail)
3. What benefit does Queanbeyan gain from not allowing Tralee to go ahead?? Especially since a lot is gained by allowing it to be approved.

FYI. I want to live at Tralee and I am hoping it goes through. It would provide me with another option to buy a house. I choose to live in Queanbeyan because I do not want to leave NSW. My rego is cheaper, the laws are better and Stanhope has no say over what we do. I don’t suffer as badly from the ‘nanny state’ as ACT residents. Having just had our second child born in the QBN Hospital and having used it in an emergency, I would prefer to go there than either Canberra hospital. Especially after being taken to the Canberra Hospital after a head-on accident and being told I would not be moved to the ward because there were no beds and my family was unable to visit me where I was.

After going to Crace and looking at houses there and also looking at other developments in the ACT, I want Tralee to go ahead even more. Land of a decent size (550m2+ because I want a backyard and eaves on my house) at most places in the ACT was upwards of $280,000 – $300,000. Then it was about $375,000 to build a 4 bedroom house. And at Crace it looks like my only options for any utilities will be ACTEW/AGL/TransACT, all of who provide crap service and crap products at skyhigh prices.

I plan on sending an email now to go and inspect Tralee and I will advise if the noise levels change my mind. But the noise can’t be any worse than the noise of several thousand whingers in the ACT crying when they don’t get thier own way.

SO again I ask, what the hell is in it for NSW not to approve Tralee, and why should we care what you think.

farq 12:29 pm 09 Dec 09

comparing noise levels in what is basically a rural area, to levels in the most built up city in australia is misleading and a really silly sales trick.

people only put up with sydney’s problems for it’s economic and cultural opportunities. things rural queanbeyan can’t offer. so why compare them?

spinact 12:22 pm 09 Dec 09

Build it and they will come, but let them be silence on aircraft noise.

harvyk1 11:59 am 09 Dec 09

I would also like to point out that BBP seems pretty full already, mainly with defence, but some private sector as well (I went out there for drinks last night).

What are your plans to convince a bunch of companys and gov’t departments who are already working in an out of the way area to pack up shop and move into Tralee, another out of the way area? Keeping in mind that moving shop costs more than a pretty penny.

Short of doing something amazing I’d say that Mr Snow is more worried about the medium to long term affects that Tralee will have on his airport (look at Sydney’s curfews). Sure the first round of home owners will have signed away their rights to complain about aircraft noise, but what about the second or third round, or the renters. Lest we forget that Tralee is in one of the most marginal gov’t seats in the country. I’d say he’d lose a lot of money from having the airport scaled back after the investment he is right now making in it’s redevelopment.

Just my 2c

farq 11:59 am 09 Dec 09

in 15 years this tralee burb’ will be another lucas heights.

a handfull of developers will make lots of easy money building the biggest, cheapest homes they can (McMansions). they don’t care what happens to the region in the long term.

i for one will be making a submission as I support the expansion of the canberra airport but don’t want to have aircraft flying over my house.

Braddon Boy 11:57 am 09 Dec 09

Ken,

You keep repeating how places in Sydney live with more aircraft noise than is to be expected in Tralee. It doesn’t take a genius to realise this, so don’t try to treat us like idiots.

The single fact you never mention is perhaps the most important. That Sydney airport has a curfew. This immediately makes any comparison nul and void, everyone knows noise travels further and faster (and therefore louder) at night. The good thing about the Canberra Airport is that it is so close to the city centre yet it doesn’t now, and hopefully ever, need a curfew.

Yes, of course Snow has an ulterior motive, but that doesn’t automatically mean that he’s wrong.

54-11 11:28 am 09 Dec 09

I love it when developers fight and squabble among themselves. They are all in favour of abolishing public consultation, except when it suits them to lodge objections and take their competitors to various planning tribunals. Then it becomes all holier-than-thou.

A plague on all their houses.

harvyk1 11:18 am 09 Dec 09

Ken Ineson, would you happily live out at tralee for at least a full year, in the standard type of house your planning to build, which will be no more protected from aircraft noise than any other house in the development, and without any changes to current flight numbers, potentially even an increase? Because if the answer is no then I think you need to rethink your development of land directly under a flight path.

Ken Ineson 10:32 am 09 Dec 09

I am the project manager for the Tralee project.

I am happy to repeat an offer I have made previously to invite readers to inspect Tralee and decide for themselves whether aircraft noise is a problem. Please contact me on kineson@villagebuilding.com.au.

You will be surprised by how little aircraft noise there is at Tralee. It has much less aircraft noise than Double Bay in Sydney.

Many people are not aware that the owner of Canberra Airport is the biggest developer in Canberra and a competitor of The Village Building Co. Their ulterior motive is that they do not want competition from the office park and retail areas that will be built at Tralee.

I am posting the following reponse to the story on Crikey by Ben Sandilands:

“I am the project manager for The Village Building Company’s (VBC) development project at South Tralee.

“In writing his story, Ben Sandilands did not contact VBC or bother to check his facts. Ben Sandilands has used the same language as the owners of Canberra Airport including a number of misleading assertions.

“The owner of Canberra Airport is the biggest development company in Canberra and a competitor of VBC. The Tralee development will include an office park and retail areas in direct competition with the rapidly developing office park and retail precinct at Canberra Airport. The Airport owner has a history of taking aggressive action to stop competitors. Several years ago they delayed the development of a competing Direct Factory Outlet by taking a series of unsuccessful legal actions.

“Local Environmental Studies undertaken by Queanbeyan City Council confirmed that the proposed development fully complies with Australian Standard AS 2021 which is the most stringent standard for aircraft noise in the world. Commonwealth policy states that compliance with AS 2021 protects the community from aircraft noise and ensures the long-term viability of airports. AS 2021 results in a series of ANEF contours around airports that determine appropriate land uses. In calculating its ANEF contours, the owner of Canberra Airport has assumed it will grow larger than Sydney Airport. Tralee still complies with AS 2021 under this highly optimistic scenario.

“Tralee is identified in the 1998 ACT and Sub Region Planning Strategy as the only future urban development area in the south of the Canberra region. This strategy was signed off as a formal agreement by the Commonwealth, ACT, NSW governments and local Councils to guide future development.

“Double Bay in Sydney has more than three times as much aircraft noise as Tralee.

“Developments in areas with much more aircraft noise than Tralee are approved every year around every major airport in the nation including curfew free airports.”

54-11 10:23 am 09 Dec 09

I’m all for Tralee if it results in a curfew being imposed in Canberra.

pspyve 9:23 am 09 Dec 09

moneypenny2612 comment that “…QCC seems to have forgotten to upload [the consultation documents] or has hidden them…” is incorrect. The documents have been available on the Council’s website since their public exhibition was announced. They can be found by clicking on the ‘Plans on Exhibition’ link in the Latest News panel on the QCC homepage. This brings up the link to the Draft Queanbeyan Local Environmental Plan (South Tralee) 2009. Click on this link and all the documents will appear.

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