15 August 2008

The indicator - use it or I will kill you beat you around the head

| johnboy
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I had the misfortune to drive down Belconnen Way during rush hour for the first time yesterday.

This made me realise that complaints about certain Canberrans failing to use their indicators really are completely justified.

Two things are particularly galling about this.

The first is that if they’re changing lanes so fast that they can’t get the flasher on then they’re manifestly not performing the maneuver safely.

Secondly these wannabe Mark Webbers, after performing multiple high risk maneuvers, are still only two places ahead of me when we pull up at the lights. So again they have proven themselves to be unable to assess risk/reward.

And so, those of you failing to use your indicators, I’d like to make you a promise.

President Zachary Taylor staved off the US civil war by getting in a room with the secessionist leaders, looking them in the eye, and promising to hang them by their worthless necks with his own two hands if they dared to take up arms against the Union.

Similarly if I end up in a crash because you decided to switch lanes without looking or indicating I promise I shall take my wheel lock and beat you around your soft lumpen head until my strength deserts me.

It seems self-evident that no lasting damage can be done assaulting your un-used heads. But if by some chance a vital spark is found and diminished in this process I have every faith that a jury of my peers will understand.

So have a look in your car, find the indicator, acquaint yourself with the road rules, and spare us all some aggravation.

Assaulting non-indicators with a weapon...

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But I’ll always indicate in ‘right turn only’ lanes for reasons outlined above.

Probably near where I was talking about having last words on the subject…Oops.

Peterh, that’s scary. The streets are indeed not safe with that sort of brainiac around.

minime2 @ #104. I really was having a hard time visualising what you were originally talking about, so thanks for the extra explanation. I’m more of a visual person and need pretty pictures and diagrams to work out what’s going on, and sometimes struggle deciphering things from the written word. Pretty sad, coming from a writer…

Anyhoo, thanks to the wonders of Street View, I dragged up an example from a roundabout I use all the time:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blamey+square+russell&sll=-26.954839,152.777875&sspn=0.203201,0.307617&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.297969,149.149082&spn=0.002907,0.004807&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-35.29883,149.149122&panoid=yHWcB0M_MeNjvCsezXDhYQ&cbp=1,229.14718797156598,,1,5

And yes, you’re right. I probably wouldn’t ALWAYS indicate on the approach to this one, usually because I’m almost always going straight onto Kings Avenue and over the bridge. Again, my (possibly flawed) logic is that I’m not crossing a broken line

If I were turning left to go the airport, yes, my indicator would be on before the road diverged. If I were going right back towards the city, the indicator would be on right before the diverging lanes. But since I’m typically en route to Manuka or Kingston, I wouldn’t indicate until I got to the exit from the roundabout and signalled left.

But I can see it would be a help for those behind me to signal earlier, so I’ll change my ways. And my lanes.

Minime, it’s all a matter of trust. If I saw you doing what you say, then I would have no confidence in you being able to share the road with me. Everyone makes their own calls, but it’s up to you if you want to join the great unwashed pack of whackers that can’t be trusted on the road. Why not just make indicating every change of direction a habit? Costs nothing, and sends a signal (literally) to other road users that you are courteous and they can rely upon your sound judgement. Easy.

ah, i saw the opposite of the no indicator usage last night. I had to play “guess where the idiot using his hazards is going” 3 times. they had no clue until a motorbike rider pulled up and read them the riot act. He was not a happy camper. I really don’t blame him, but lucky there weren’t any kids around, there were some interesting combinations of words being shouted….

They thought it was safer than indicating and then changing their minds.

OMFG!

“Situational awareness, 54-11, is the very thing I was talking about in regard to sitting at a T junction in the right hand turn only lane with big signs in front of you that say RIGHT HAND TURN ONLY and big white arrows on the road pointing to the right so there is NO choice to be made but turn right; ie: Flemington Road and Federal Hwy for one. If you cannot tell when a driver is going to turn right in that situation, you may want to reconsider the use of a crusier (that’s two wheels, right?) as you are a danger to yourself.”

Minime – If you think signs, roadmarkings and even median strips stop people doing what ever they like then you wouldn’t last long on a motorbike. For bike riders it basically works like this. Don’t trust any bastard in car. Don’t expect they will do anything. If you do get complacent then sell the bike and buy a 4wd.

#84 Overheard: good question re indicators at twolane and one lane divergants, because it was hard to explain. Thanks for the question without any insults. I see your point about pedestrians too. The thing about the use of indicator when approaching a two lane stretch of road from a one lane BEFORE a roundabout is what I was refering to. This is the “opposite” action to leaving a two lane roundabout into a one lane where, it seems, most use inicators to tell you they are going straight ahead when there is no choice anyway. I was simply suggesting that if such use is so “rote” or important, why is it not the same in the “opposite” situation, after-all, the vehicle is ‘diverging’ before/into either a left or right lane. My use of “servay” was an attempt to indicate (oh crappers – a pun) that it was just noticed a lot and stuck in one of my nuerons. All this is not addressing the real concerns of the bullying tactic of blinking WHILE changing lanes. And a question for input … are not those thick, white painted lanes on an onramp (GDE?) actually give-way lines? Because i do know (yep – one thing at least) that at an intersection (and a ramp divergant is one)the law applies to the LINE painted: broken for “give Way” and solid for “Stop”. If the sign is not there the law is therefore still applicable. So, all that to say the bullying is rampant (another ramp pun) at onramps … with blinker on and here I come!

Situational awareness, 54-11, is the very thing I was talking about in regard to sitting at a T junction in the right hand turn only lane with big signs in front of you that say RIGHT HAND TURN ONLY and big white arrows on the road pointing to the right so there is NO choice to be made but turn right; ie: Flemington Road and Federal Hwy for one. If you cannot tell when a driver is going to turn right in that situation, you may want to reconsider the use of a crusier (that’s two wheels, right?) as you are a danger to yourself.
Another point or two: to start a post by calling me a whacker tends to make anything you say following (the old put-others-down-to-lift-yourself-up ploy) unworthy to be considered informative or constructive. And, how many is “too many drivers” – the ones who turn left from the right side of the road; which is irrelevant to the point I was making. And, should you bother to apply reading-craft and courtesy by re-reading my post you may see I did not say i DID NOT indicate in that situation … its the sitting behind a big vehicle with a really big blinker at eye level blinking and blinking and blinking ad-norsium when everyone, except you and those turning left (?) know what is going on. Are you on L plates?

54-11 this is Canberra. Indicators are entirely optional and old fellas on cruisers are fair game in case you hadn’t noticed.

I’m probably a bit late posting, but those whackers (eg minime) who say they won’t indicate when “obviouisly” (to them)turning right are the sort of road users that give me the willies, espacially when I’m on the Cruiser. When I’m riding or driving (particularly the former), I’m looking for evidence in other drivers of roadcraft, courtesy and situational awareness. Those who fail to indicate are obviously lacking in all three. It is not always possible to tell when a vehicle is obviously turning (too many drivers turn right form the lft side of the road or vice versa).

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:09 am 17 Aug 08

Well, if you tailgate them, that will teach them a lesson. Tailgating’s legal, apparently.

I know this is tongue in cheek, but it’s surprising how many people think tailgating is ok. That said, if people used lanes properly, it would rarely happen.

iCanberran said :

Any one like to mention to him that the indicator is the right hand stalk on Aussie cars. The left is for windscreen wipers and washers 🙂

There are european cars in Australia which use the left stalk for the indicators.

A few of our fleet cars have this, and it confuses me everytime i take out Ford Focus out… I usually try to take the Mitsubishi 380 – lot more grunt and better indicators!!!

Well, if you tailgate them, that will teach them a lesson. Tailgating’s legal, apparently.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy9:59 pm 16 Aug 08

Indicating is a huge problem with Canberra drivers, but it’s not the biggest – that would be lane discipline. The trouble is that while it isn’t technically illegal to sit permanently in the right hand lane of roads limited to 80km’h or below, it’s bloody inconsiderate. And it happens constantly.

Any one like to mention to him that the indicator is the right hand stalk on Aussie cars. The left is for windscreen wipers and washers 🙂

So much anger JB – chill out dude.

On the indicating note – I ride a bike – I don’t trust anyone on the road whether they indicate or not.

Tooks said :

Duke said :

Tooks said :

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

I sympathise with the police position Tooks and realise that a failure to indicate is fairly minor compared with other naughtiness, however this problem stems from the fact that indicating is rarely, if ever, enforced by police.

Years ago I was in a car that was pulled over and fined for having its driving/fog lights on but the number of people who now break this rule is HUGE – just like now you can pretty much abandon the use of indicators without any real fear of being penalised.

If there was a police blitz combined with publicity on the issue from local news and newspapers, maybe even some road-craft advertising, increased fines?, there might be some chance of clawing back some ground on this problem.

I think a bit of a blitz combined with increased fines might do the trick. It’s a shame there is so little common sense around. Really, how simple is it to use an indicator?

but the people who don’t use an indicator, and merge without looking are the cause of some of the hairiest avoidance maneuvers I have ever seen. I have also seen some pretty scary turn left with care behaviour.

I spend between 50 & 70% of my day in the car. I would love to see cops catching people in the wrong, and, lets face it, if it is me sometimes, I deserve to be caught. (I don’t think it is, but my concentration does slip from time to time)

what concerns me is the parents who send their kids to a driving instructor, where they learn to drive in a small car, then get their “p” plates and the keys to mum or dad’s v6 or v8.
I am in my late 30’s and have only just bought a V6. (I had a stint in a v8, when I was younger, but sold it when it became too much to run on an apprentice wage)

I know that some kids learn to control fast cars through their parents, but why don’t these L platers and P platers get a course in defensive driving provided to them by the ACT government, or the fed govt? If they had the skills to drive defensively, perhaps they would have the ability to avoid potentially serious incidents.

anyway, canberrans are actually known across the globe for their indicator use – however, for the manouevre known as the ‘celebratory indicator’, used when a driver celebrates having made a successful turn or lane change…

Overheard said :

I reckon you should apply a combination of the rule of law as a minimum and then the rule of commonsense after that, i.e. even if it doesn’t say in stone you have to indicate in a right-turn only lane, what does it hurt?

Should have finished: ‘… what does it hurt to do it anyway as a courtesy to others?’

Actually, the other one I see is people moving into right-turn only lanes without indicating. So what do the nay-sayers do there? Indicate to get into the lane then switch it off once there? Madness.

Oops. Now THAT’S my last word. It’s Cashews time!

I reckon you should apply a combination of the rule of law as a minimum and then the rule of commonsense after that, i.e. even if it doesn’t say in stone you have to indicate in a right-turn only lane, what does it hurt? You’re helping, not harming. I can’t think of any situation where excessive indicating is a bad thing EXCEPT when drivers want to kick in from 100m back instead of the legal requirement of (I think) 30m. Who else has thought a car’s about to turn and maybe even gone to step, drive or cycle onto a road only for the driver to coast on past the arterial road (s)he appears to be indicating for, and turn at the next road. Scary.

But like other hoary chestnuts like bicycles on roads, it’s a cyclical argument.

So my last word on the subject (and one of my mottos for life) is that most angst is created in this world by people who just aren’t prepared to think about others. It’s symptomatic of a general ‘I’m alright, Jack, so f&ck you’ attitude. And that, my friends, is a universal condition, not a uniquely Canberrian trait.

Duke said :

Tooks said :

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

I sympathise with the police position Tooks and realise that a failure to indicate is fairly minor compared with other naughtiness, however this problem stems from the fact that indicating is rarely, if ever, enforced by police.

Years ago I was in a car that was pulled over and fined for having its driving/fog lights on but the number of people who now break this rule is HUGE – just like now you can pretty much abandon the use of indicators without any real fear of being penalised.

If there was a police blitz combined with publicity on the issue from local news and newspapers, maybe even some road-craft advertising, increased fines?, there might be some chance of clawing back some ground on this problem.

I think a bit of a blitz combined with increased fines might do the trick. It’s a shame there is so little common sense around. Really, how simple is it to use an indicator?

miz said :

I disagree, even if you are in a lane with a turning arrow you should indicate, to assist people in other directions who may not be able to see that your lane is one with a turning arrow, as Overheard stated above.

I have had a look for info on ACT websites but no luck, though the rules certainly state that if you are turning, you must indicate your intentions (no exceptions are mentioned).

However, NSW RTA’s road rules handbook online confirms the ‘you should indicate’ rule – it has a diagram of a car clearly indicating to turn right from a right only lane on page 82 of the link below.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/200807_ruh_english.pdf

Diagrams can’t be enforced as a rule. It needs to be in writting – otherwise you could write contracts with one big picture!

Plus it only relates to NSW and not the Australian Road Rules/ACT Roadbook

I disagree, even if you are in a lane with a turning arrow you should indicate, to assist people in other directions who may not be able to see that your lane is one with a turning arrow, as Overheard stated above.

I have had a look for info on ACT websites but no luck, though the rules certainly state that if you are turning, you must indicate your intentions (no exceptions are mentioned).

However, NSW RTA’s road rules handbook online confirms the ‘you should indicate’ rule – it has a diagram of a car clearly indicating to turn right from a right only lane on page 82 of the link below.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/200807_ruh_english.pdf

minime2 said :

Then there is the overuse or useless use of indicators: such as sitting at a T intersection in one of the right turn lanes (RIGHT TURN ONLY signs too)with no other choice but to turn right, and have the blinker brightly flashing dozens and dozens of times to tell others the obvious.

Yep. That is pointless and silly, there’s nowhere else to go.

Why indicate to change lanes? The cars in the intended lane just speed up in order to block you anyway. Typical of the anal retentive p#$%^s that abound in this town. Kind and polite to your face while twisting the knife in your back.

Tooks said :

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

I sympathise with the police position Tooks and realise that a failure to indicate is fairly minor compared with other naughtiness, however this problem stems from the fact that indicating is rarely, if ever, enforced by police.

Years ago I was in a car that was pulled over and fined for having its driving/fog lights on but the number of people who now break this rule is HUGE – just like now you can pretty much abandon the use of indicators without any real fear of being penalised.

If there was a police blitz combined with publicity on the issue from local news and newspapers, maybe even some road-craft advertising, increased fines?, there might be some chance of clawing back some ground on this problem.

minime2 said :

… but no-one (yes folks you read by anecdotal servay correctly) NO-ONE indicates when still in the single lane approaching a two-lane roundabout which lane they will enter beforehand. NO-ONE. Now you know, and just watch it happen!
Then there is the overuse or useless use of indicators: such as sitting at a T intersection in one of the right turn lanes (RIGHT TURN ONLY signs too)with no other choice but to turn right, and have the blinker brightly flashing dozens and dozens of times to tell others the obvious.

Not exactly sure what you’re driving at (boom boom) in the first point. If you’re approaching a roundabout, my understanding is you signal left if you’re intending to go left, nothing if you’re going straight, until you get to that exit and then signal left, and right if you’re taking the third exit (if there’s one) swiching to left when you exit. I could have misinterpreted, but if that’s what you mean, then your ‘servay’ must be quite limited.

Second point: use of indicator here is not useless to pedestrians who a) might not have sight of thr right turn only markings, and b) can’t read your mind.

Re Post 30 and 37. This has been an anal type of observation point of mine for ages here in the Great City. #37 is right: why indicate? Where does the driver in front think that I think he is going to go when he has only one place to go – straight ahead. But, here’s an interesting thing (if you have plodded all the way thru these posts and still have the heart to be challenged AND informed): OK, so most people indicate by rote when doing that merge-from-a-two-lane-roundabout-into-the-one-lane-thing … but no-one (yes folks you read by anecdotal servay correctly) NO-ONE indicates when still in the single lane approaching a two-lane roundabout which lane they will enter beforehand. NO-ONE. Now you know, and just watch it happen!
Then there is the overuse or useless use of indicators: such as sitting at a T intersection in one of the right turn lanes (RIGHT TURN ONLY signs too)with no other choice but to turn right, and have the blinker brightly flashing dozens and dozens of times to tell others the obvious. But once some of you folk get off the L’s and get some road savvy, you will sense the about-to-change-lanes driver … aaahh, the Great City.

saraj said :

Register your complaints here http://www.ratetheplate.com.au/ACT/

I find letting off a little steam after an incident similar to some outlined above does wonders!

Phew … I’m clean!

(I knew that really).

; )

I just got my L’s in april and i have really noticed people not using thier indicators as well. It’s really quite hard for me since i am new on the road. I follow the road and everything but when someone just shoots out of thier lane or brakes right in front of me out of no where it is very distressing to me and puts me on edge. Not the best feeling for driving 🙁

Cars have indicators?

I use the force…

That’s half the problem, people think turn indicator on then immediately attempt to change lanes, the person beside me will move. I normally have no problem with letting someone change lanes if they indicate their intention and don’t barge in, the one exception is people thinking the can stay in the outside lane and go past the queue of traffic then try and get in to make the turn at the last minute. Reminds me I saw someone do the barging cut-off lane change on london cct the other week, they shouldn’t have done it to an unmarked police car, on went the lights. classic!

If the government provided enough funding to the police to have some traffic branch officers on the beat they would have a field day in revenue from people speeding at 130kph on the parkway, people changing lanes when they feel like it, people just pulling out at intersections, motorcyclists thinking their casey stoner in the traffic, motorcyclists going between lanes of traffic and down emergency lanes, morons in falcons and FWDs with their fog lights on etc etc.. I could go on for hours.

One thing I’ve noticed about tailgaters… they indicate like mad. Often incorrectly (especially on roundabouts) but they really give that stalk a workout.

jenny green said :

Overheard said :

jenny green said :

Weird – I’m pregnant and this happened to me last week, first time I’ve ever been rear-ended.

Tagline!

Sorry, Jenny, I couldn’t resist. As to your question, dunno.

LOL

Tickled my funny bone!

Reminded me of a colleague who fell pregnant many years ago after some trying.

‘Must have been the handstand!’ she gleefully announced.

Overheard said :

jenny green said :

Weird – I’m pregnant and this happened to me last week, first time I’ve ever been rear-ended.

Tagline!

Sorry, Jenny, I couldn’t resist. As to your question, dunno.

LOL

Vic Bitterman9:06 pm 15 Aug 08

I couldn’t be farcked using my indicators. I know where I am going.

@ Jenny.

True, if you can point these things out in a measured way such that the other person is receptive to what you’re saying, so much the better. For instance, when I did the ‘Nice car; shame the indicator doesn’t work’ trick on a fellow-driver at Dickson shops once, that instigated a very brief conversation in which the bloke admitted he hadn’t considered the impact (literally) that not indicating has on pedestrians. (If I’d not read the car’s body language, I’d have ended up as a hood ornament).

And that’s the point I’d make to whoever it was above who was prosecuting the cause of not using the indicator if noone else is around. It’s just too easy to miss someone or something in your peripheral vision. I once nearly met my maker because some d!ck decided to take a left-hand turn off Mort St without noticing the pedestrian (me). Only a split second in it. I shouted and gesticulated and I don’t think he even noticed me then.

And as I’ve mentioned in another related thread, I spent three weeks in hosptial once, having had one side of my pelvis smashed by a motorist who hasn’t watching what was on the road, so I’m a bit hyper-sensitive about motorist/pedestrian interaction!

Overheard said :

chaton said :

Overheard said :

But the number of times I’ve had morons fang up (typically on the blind, left side) and zoom past is countless.

rrrr I hate this more than brussel sprouts. and then they get upset when you toot them and glare…

I rarely use my horn these days. You’d like to think people would get the message if you bring it to their attention, but it’s a losing battle. I just give them a wide berth. No good feeling self-righteous about being in the right and with a crumpled panel.

Because I occasionally do something stupid on the roads inadvertently, so as I do live (drive) in a glass house, I throw pebbles, not stones.

Don’t give up – you have a duty to educate. And others will educate you too (minor detail that it’s illegal to use your horn other than in an emergency).

Why do people turning left into Canberra Centre carpark from Scott’s Crossing insist in doing this from the right hand lane??? I know it’s a tight corner but unless you’re in a Valiant, there is room to turn from the left lane… I will continue to toot folk until they learn… This is my duty.

jenny green said :

Weird – I’m pregnant and this happened to me last week, first time I’ve ever been rear-ended.

Tagline!

Sorry, Jenny, I couldn’t resist. As to your question, dunno.

The Public Watchdog said :

A rather timely story for my wife and I after what happened at our first birthing class last night. Apparently several pregnant women a month (sometimes up to 3 a week) are being rear-ended in cars because people are driving too fast and are not leaving enough space between their car and the car in front of them It is happening often enough that the midwife who was taking the class felt the need to advise mums to be what measures they should take if it happens to them….Time to slow down Canberra.

Weird – I’m pregnant and this happened to me last week, first time I’ve ever been rear-ended. At the risk of asking for it, why is it so? Could I be less of a hoon now than before I had the bun in the oven?

Overheard said :

Tooks said :

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

I’m reminded of the joke about the bloke who gets pulled over for speeding and starts protesting that so many others were out there speeding, and he was but one.
The cop stops and looks at him.
‘Do you ever go fishing?’ he asks.
‘Yeah,’ says the driver.
‘Have you ever caught ALL the fish?!’

Haha. Nice. 🙂

That is a common excuse, by the way.

Tooks said :

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

I’m reminded of the joke about the bloke who gets pulled over for speeding and starts protesting that so many others were out there speeding, and he was but one.
The cop stops and looks at him.
‘Do you ever go fishing?’ he asks.
‘Yeah,’ says the driver.
‘Have you ever caught ALL the fish?!’

Duke said :

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Actually, I was speaking for myself, and other cops I work with. Unfortunately if every non-indicator was pulled over, the whole shift would be doing just that. Just gotta pick the worst offenders.

chaton said :

Overheard said :

But the number of times I’ve had morons fang up (typically on the blind, left side) and zoom past is countless.

rrrr I hate this more than brussel sprouts. and then they get upset when you toot them and glare…

I rarely use my horn these days. You’d like to think people would get the message if you bring it to their attention, but it’s a losing battle. I just give them a wide berth. No good feeling self-righteous about being in the right and with a crumpled panel.

Because I occasionally do something stupid on the roads inadvertently, so as I do live (drive) in a glass house, I throw pebbles, not stones.

Piratemonkey, I disagree with you about weaving thru traffic. Most of it that I see is where everybody else is doing the speed limit and the person doing the weaving is speeding. Perhaps you give yourself away – none of the posts are about “young people” except yours.

But you’re right that everybody should chill – if people took it easy on the road and treated each other with some respect (including indicating) we wouldn’t have this thread. Then when you’re in a rush and you indicate that you want to change lanes, people might even let you past, like, gasp, out of politeness.

Overheard said :

But the number of times I’ve had morons fang up (typically on the blind, left side) and zoom past is countless.

rrrr I hate this more than brussel sprouts. and then they get upset when you toot them and glare…

DJ said :

My, isn’t everybody high and mighty!

I doubt most of the people here would be able to pass their drivers test without loss of points. Most people can’t. I my experience the drivers whothink they are excellent… arent.

If you are noticing others errors imagine what they notice about you while you are on auto-pilot.

@DJ – Johnboy and most others are just asking that people use their indicators when changing lanes and going around corners. It isn’t a difficult thing to do.

My, isn’t everybody high and mighty!

I doubt most of the people here would be able to pass their drivers test without loss of points. Most people can’t. I my experience the drivers whothink they are excellent… arent.

If you are noticing others errors imagine what they notice about you while you are on auto-pilot.

Piratemonkey said :

peterh said :

Hey piratemonkey, and the ones that drive 10k under the limit are the same that speed thru suburbia. 80 on the parkway = 80 in the suburbs. (shouldn’t it be 100 on the parkway = 60 or 50 in the suburbs?)

I don’t think i said anything about speeding in the suburbs of course that is dangerous with kids running around. Its the people who never adjust their speed up from suburban enviroments who annoy me and cause people to tailgate them and burst past at the first possible opportunity. These people who second guess their every move and stop for no apparent reason just because they are not confident drivers or are not concentrating enough causing them to need a second look.

When it comes to speeding on the parkway big deal. Its almost a dead straight road, just be courteous to those wanting to merge and keep your eyes opened.

All i am saying is people stand here and whinge about young people speeding all the while they do all sorts of stupid things and its completely hypocritical.

it wasn’t a shot at you, it just seems that the same morons who drive slow on the parkway, speed in suburbia.

watched an interesting argument between a speeder and a cop today, in a school zone. Apparently, the guy was late. he is going to be a lot later now. but then, he shot past me so fast, he must have been on fire. The cop wasn’t interested in his excuses.

he was not doing 60, probably close to 80.

and the copper just appeared on the side of the road, waved him over.

Piratemonkey4:57 pm 15 Aug 08

peterh said :

Hey piratemonkey, and the ones that drive 10k under the limit are the same that speed thru suburbia. 80 on the parkway = 80 in the suburbs. (shouldn’t it be 100 on the parkway = 60 or 50 in the suburbs?)

I don’t think i said anything about speeding in the suburbs of course that is dangerous with kids running around. Its the people who never adjust their speed up from suburban enviroments who annoy me and cause people to tailgate them and burst past at the first possible opportunity. These people who second guess their every move and stop for no apparent reason just because they are not confident drivers or are not concentrating enough causing them to need a second look.

When it comes to speeding on the parkway big deal. Its almost a dead straight road, just be courteous to those wanting to merge and keep your eyes opened.

All i am saying is people stand here and whinge about young people speeding all the while they do all sorts of stupid things and its completely hypocritical.

Piratemonkey said :

I hate to play the devils advocate here but you guys need to chill. Seriously.
Whats the big deal about not indicating when it is perfectly safe to change lanes? In my experience if you indicate for more then just a couple seconds people will speed up to get in your way.

When it comes to traffic weaving that is caused by people who drive far to slow. Everyone whinges about traffic taking so long but they happily drive 10km/h under the limit and should they actually reach the speed limit it often takes a couple minutes. Add to that people slowing for lights which haven’t even changed yet. Don’t even get me started about people who don’t understand the whole keep left principle. If someone is behind you and you are both in the right lane move the hell over and let them past.

When you are in a rush such behavior is extremely annoying. While i whole heartedly agree about people not head checking being imbeciles it is just as often the old pricks driving slow as a wet week who make poor decisions driving because they are off with the fairy’s and not concentrating on the road.

People are quick to accuse those who drive quickly of being dangerous and causing problems but everyone is at fault here in this city where no one bothers to drive correctly.

Hey piratemonkey, and the ones that drive 10k under the limit are the same that speed thru suburbia. 80 on the parkway = 80 in the suburbs. (shouldn’t it be 100 on the parkway = 60 or 50 in the suburbs?)

Piratemonkey4:19 pm 15 Aug 08

I hate to play the devils advocate here but you guys need to chill. Seriously.
Whats the big deal about not indicating when it is perfectly safe to change lanes? In my experience if you indicate for more then just a couple seconds people will speed up to get in your way.

When it comes to traffic weaving that is caused by people who drive far to slow. Everyone whinges about traffic taking so long but they happily drive 10km/h under the limit and should they actually reach the speed limit it often takes a couple minutes. Add to that people slowing for lights which haven’t even changed yet. Don’t even get me started about people who don’t understand the whole keep left principle. If someone is behind you and you are both in the right lane move the hell over and let them past.

When you are in a rush such behavior is extremely annoying. While i whole heartedly agree about people not head checking being imbeciles it is just as often the old pricks driving slow as a wet week who make poor decisions driving because they are off with the fairy’s and not concentrating on the road.

People are quick to accuse those who drive quickly of being dangerous and causing problems but everyone is at fault here in this city where no one bothers to drive correctly.

Indicators do appears to be optional in Canberra.
But even when used, it seems they are used so infrequently that people forget HOW to use them!!

The doosey I saw the other day was a lass in front of me. We were travelling on Parkes Way heading from the airport into Civic and had reached the roundabout near Constitution Ave.
She was in the left lane, indicated LEFT and then moved RIGHT, moved swiftly across TWO lanes to enter the roundabout.
I backed way the heck off from that one.

trilobite said :

I like to ride up to non-indicators and politely point out that their rear left/right (as appropriate) indicator is either blown or functioning intermittently.

Possibly I’m being too subtle.

The one I use (usually in car-parks): ‘Hey, nice car. Shame the indicators don’t work on that model.’ Obviously you’ve got to pick your targets, as they themselves may have their own criteria for wiedling the wheel lock!!

Lack of appropriate indicator use and talking on mobiles while driving (with kids in the car is even worse) is a fav pet hate. Don’t get me started…oops I already have. I saw an Australian Capital Territory Internal Omnibus Network driver on a mobile the other day….flabbergasted I was.

54-11, I haven’t noticed the correlation with cost, but I have noticed it with 4WDs.

oh, crap.

full moon weekend. here come the crazies….

Has anyone noted a direct correlation between the cost of a car, and increased likelihood to not indicate, talk on the mobile and have fog lights on. It’s almost as if the dicks that can afford expensive cars are the ones least likely to obey the road rules. Or is that just my jealousy showing?

I dunno, Rate the Plate seems to cater to the OCD crowd… The number 1 frequent rater has over 5,000 ratings. You have to wonder how he manages to write down all those number plates while driving without taking his hands off the wheel or eyes off the road…

Thankfully I’m not on there 8D But you know, of course we’re not all perfect and there have a few occasions when I’ve made embarrassing mistakes while driving and I’ve wished I could apologise to the people around me.

If anybody out there feels they’ve been wronged by the driver of a giant purple and white Ford, here’s your apology!

what about roundabouts? people indicate in, then just exit where they want to. they don’t indicate out….

The Public Watchdog said :

A rather timely story for my wife and I after what happened at our first birthing class last night. Apparently several pregnant women a month (sometimes up to 3 a week) are being rear-ended in cars because people are driving too fast and are not leaving enough space between their car and the car in front of them It is happening often enough that the midwife who was taking the class felt the need to advise mums to be what measures they should take if it happens to them….Time to slow down Canberra.

Bit OT, but traffic related,

what is the go with the jerks who get upset about being overtaken, overtake again and jam on the anchors?

friends of ours in a territory had such a fool overtake them, hit the anchors, they did so too, but the semi behind them didn’t have the same braking power. the semi turned their territory into a 2-door, lucky their kids weren’t in the back….

merging? i always assumed that the two lanes merge to one, ergo, the left lane merges with the right, so must indicate an intention to change lanes..? so i indicate if i am/was in the left lane, not from the right. (the merge to the left turn lane at the top of anzac ave is a puzzling one, though…)

the strange corollary to this conversation however is that from long expereince as a motor/cyclist, i never trust indicators! eg, sitting at a ‘T’ intersection, waiting to turn into the top line from the tall stalk, traffic from my right indicating to turn left into the street i am in, i never go until they are well into their turn.

this pisses people behind me off sometimes, but i am in no mood to move out into the path of this oncoming traffic and have them plough into me, their indicator on by accident, or on to indicate they want to turn left into a driveway beyond the intersection, or they are lost and changed their mind ’cause it is the wrong street, or whatever.

The Public Watchdog2:59 pm 15 Aug 08

A rather timely story for my wife and I after what happened at our first birthing class last night. Apparently several pregnant women a month (sometimes up to 3 a week) are being rear-ended in cars because people are driving too fast and are not leaving enough space between their car and the car in front of them It is happening often enough that the midwife who was taking the class felt the need to advise mums to be what measures they should take if it happens to them….Time to slow down Canberra.

hey, that rate a plate site is pretty good – wish I had known about it yesterday when almost mown down on ped crossing in phillip….

saraj said :

Register your complaints here http://www.ratetheplate.com.au/ACT/

I find letting off a little steam after an incident similar to some outlined above does wonders!

cool! what a great site!

I like to ride up to non-indicators and politely point out that their rear left/right (as appropriate) indicator is either blown or functioning intermittently.

Possibly I’m being too subtle.

Come FROM Canberra??

on a canberra based forum.

I come from kambah.

indicators are better used than say, the bird, when changing lanes….

better response.

though trying to merge in fyshwick today, with my indicator on, you would think no-one could actually see it.

then the bird worked fine.

Dunno – how about you give us a list of all the things that constitute a perfect driver in your opinion and we’ll see how we go? I’m sure JB, as the OP, will be happy to oblige….

So most of you come from Canberra then? I sense much rock throwing from glass houses – unless you happen to be perfect drivers?

Gibbo said :

On changing lanes in roundabouts:
It is perfectly legal unless there is are explicit direction arrows in the lanes on the roundabout.
From Road Rules 2008 Part C2 page 47

Obeying traffic lane arrows when driving in or leaving a roundabout
If a driver is driving in a marked lane in a roundabout and there are traffic lane
arrows applying to the lane, the driver must:
(a) if the arrows indicate a single direction, drive in or leave the
roundabout in that direction; or
(b) if the arrows indicate 2 or more directions, drive in or leave the
roundabout in one of those directions.
Giving a change of direction signal when changing marked lanes or lines of traffic in
a roundabout
A driver driving in a roundabout must:
(a) give a left change of direction signal before the driver changes marked lanes to the left, or enters a line of traffic to the left, in the roundabout;
(b) give a right change of direction signal before the driver changes marked lanes to the right, or enters a line of traffic to the right, in the roundabout.

The roundabout that MDME is referring to has clearly marked lines on the approaching lanes, only the right lane has the two arrows for turning right onto Wentworth or continuing straight on via Canberra Ave.

If the boys in blue were to park just around the corner near the Wentworth exit and observe this area for a few mornings, they would probably need some backup TIN issuing devices, such are the numbers of idiots who turn right from the left lane despite the markings.

And the other point I was going to make on topic, is that again, much as I get frothy-mouthed about non-indicators and people who don’t fix their tail-lights, I’ve been caught out myself. I think I told this tale on another thread about politely pointing out to someone at the lights that their tail-light was out then getting home and noticing by the reflection in the window that one of mine was also out.

Similarly, I’ve been driving around for a few weeks while my left indicator had been going double-time. Something to get looked at when I get my next service, I thought. Until I was giving a mate a lift one night and he said, I think you’ve blown a globe.

I had. Fixed now for the princely sum of $2.20.

But for the past few weeks, I’ve been not indicating to the left for anyone who’s in front of me. Probably p!ssing some off, but I’m none the wiser.

I should check that ‘rate the plate’ thing — maybe someone’s been flaming me. I guess I should be glad I haven’t had a Korean-European wheel-lock imbedded in my bonce!

Cameron said :

Merging under those circumstances is the one time I don’t use my indicator. What’s the point? Where else am I going to go?

You indicate to demonstrate your intent… I’m pretty sure everyone understands that when two lanes merge into one there is little choice but to merge.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my logic. I just can’t find anything official that says that’s what you should do. Or otherwise.

Register your complaints here http://www.ratetheplate.com.au/ACT/

I find letting off a little steam after an incident similar to some outlined above does wonders!

Sorry, above post refers to Overheard and jakez’s comments re: merging two lanes into one.

Merging under those circumstances is the one time I don’t use my indicator. What’s the point? Where else am I going to go?

You indicate to demonstrate your intent… I’m pretty sure everyone understands that when two lanes merge into one there is little choice but to merge.

Mælinar - *spoiler alert* I've seen S04E131:10 pm 15 Aug 08

Aye JB, why go for the armoured bit ?

Mighty as my enraged wheel lock swinging can be, I still doubt the ability to do lasting damage by belting these clods’ heads.

Julius Constantius12:53 pm 15 Aug 08

I think the death penalty is a little lenient for indicator offenders. We should also dispose of there bloodline. Oh And anyone they may have had sexual relations with, I’m not certain if it a sexual transmitted disorder. But I think it is fair to be cautious.

Cars have indicators?

I use the force…

I think the force would prefer you used indicators…

Couldn’t find a reference, though it may have been updated since. I even rang the RTA (or MVR or whatever at the time) and couldn’t get a definitive answer. I use the commonsense approach of first there, first in. But the number of times I’ve had morons fang up (typically on the blind, left side) and zoom past is countless.

Overheard said :

Here’s the one I’ve never been able to work out: do you indicate when you’re going from two lanes merging to a ‘Form One Lane’ situation. (Sorry, that should have been ‘merging to a ‘Lane One Form’ situation’.) I was always taught you indicate when crossing a dotted line (i.e. changing lanes), and noone ever instructed me to do it in a merging situation (unless you’re crossing a line). I even bought a road rules book a few years ago but found it silent on the topic.

What amuses me when I follow others is to see them religiously indicating in the merge situation but then flipping between lanes and around corners without indicating.

I simply cannot believe it is silent on that issue.

Yes you indicate and the person in front has right of way (if you are both at the exact same spot use common sense and don’t be bloody twits).

Here’s the one I’ve never been able to work out: do you indicate when you’re going from two lanes merging to a ‘Form One Lane’ situation. (Sorry, that should have been ‘merging to a ‘Lane One Form’ situation’.) I was always taught you indicate when crossing a dotted line (i.e. changing lanes), and noone ever instructed me to do it in a merging situation (unless you’re crossing a line). I even bought a road rules book a few years ago but found it silent on the topic.

What amuses me when I follow others is to see them religiously indicating in the merge situation but then flipping between lanes and around corners without indicating.

mdme workalot12:18 pm 15 Aug 08

Thanks for the reference Gibbo, I stand corrected on the legality of changing lanes on roundabouts in general. I got my licence in NSW, so I’m not sure if the law at that time was different? Happy to be enlightened…

However, I believe my point regarding the Wentworth Ave roundabout stands as the lane markings are clearly unbroken. This is outlined in section C1 of the ACT road rules handbook (sorry, I’m a bit of a gumby when it comes to adding links so I haven’t bothered trying!!!) Once again, happy to be corrected….

Phew – I was wondering if I should admit to changing lanes in a roundabout.
I always get caught out on that stupid Wentworth Ave one where the two exits are close together and everyone goes too fast.

But I always indicate. Once I was indicating (and already moving) and the poor person in the next lane had to beep at me. And I had head checked – still dunno where they came from, but at least they got a bit of warning in time to stop me.

So embarrasssment. But proves the point of indicating.

Queenie said :

Overheard said :

Anyone who thinks this is a Canberra thing only obviously doesn’t get out (of Canberra) very much.

Maybe it’s just that in New South Wales the idiots are more spread out, and when commuters get to Canberra they’re all forced into close proximity and we get to see the results!

Fair comment! There are probably less morons per square kilometre in the areas of regional NSW I drive through. But much as I love Sydney, as a driver I always mentally shift into another gear when I hit Campbelltown or Hornsby, and indicatorlessness is just as much an issue. As for the South Coast…

On changing lanes in roundabouts:
It is perfectly legal unless there is are explicit direction arrows in the lanes on the roundabout.
From Road Rules 2008 Part C2 page 47

Obeying traffic lane arrows when driving in or leaving a roundabout
If a driver is driving in a marked lane in a roundabout and there are traffic lane
arrows applying to the lane, the driver must:
(a) if the arrows indicate a single direction, drive in or leave the
roundabout in that direction; or
(b) if the arrows indicate 2 or more directions, drive in or leave the
roundabout in one of those directions.
Giving a change of direction signal when changing marked lanes or lines of traffic in
a roundabout
A driver driving in a roundabout must:
(a) give a left change of direction signal before the driver changes marked lanes to the left, or enters a line of traffic to the left, in the roundabout;
(b) give a right change of direction signal before the driver changes marked lanes to the right, or enters a line of traffic to the right, in the roundabout.

Gungahlin Al11:59 am 15 Aug 08

Another sector for “up against the wall when I become despot”?

Used to live down Holbrook way, and the drive up the Hume to Sydney was always nice and cruisy – until you hit the traffic out of Canberra. It was always suddenly a free-for-all eyes-in-the-back-of-your-head hairy experience. Not good.

Overheard said :

Anyone who thinks this is a Canberra thing only obviously doesn’t get out (of Canberra) very much.

Maybe it’s just that in New South Wales the idiots are more spread out, and when commuters get to Canberra they’re all forced into close proximity and we get to see the results!

Mick said :

Overheard said :

but to suggest this is a Canberra disease only is a bit blinkered.

Pun intended? 🙂

Ta da!

The pun was intended but so was the intent. Anyone who thinks this is a Canberra thing only obviously doesn’t get out (of Canberra) very much.

Canberra drivers terrify me. And more often than not I see WRX drivers weaving across the three lanes of Belconnen Way in peak hour traffic without using their indicators. Not saying all people who drive WRXs do this, but I’ve seen a lot of them. Myself, I get in one lane and stay there unless I absolutely have to overtake somebody, because it’s not a race to see who gets to the lights at Northbourne first.

To those asses who scare the crap out of me on a daily basis, I’d say:
1. Check your blind spots.
2. Indicate.
3. Check your blind spots again.
4. Proceed.

(Out of habit I sometimes even use my indicators when coming down the little dirt road to our property!)

mdme workalot11:42 am 15 Aug 08

Duke – exactly. Don’t get me started on the f***ing fog lights….

OT – not using indicators, particularly on roundabouts is so dangerous. To all you lovely public servants who turn right onto Wentworth Avenue on the big roundabout outside St Clares, use your indicator or I will run into you because I don’t know what you are doing or where you are going. Other things to also note on that roundabout – you CANNOT turn right from the left lane (coming from Canberra avenue) and it is ILLEGAL to change lanes while still on the roundabout. Not only is it illegal, it is also incredibly stupid because I guarantee I am faster around the roundabout than you so I will actually be beside you when coming off the roundabout. If you are going so fast around the roundabout that you cannot stay in one lane, SLOW DOWN YOU W***ERS!!!

Hopping off the soap box now, I got taken out on that roundabout for the third time this week this morning and I’m sick of going up gutters.

Overheard said :

but to suggest this is a Canberra disease only is a bit blinkered.

Pun intended? 🙂

I think there are electromagnetic forces created by the scientologists when they designed Canberra that causes car indicators to fail !

I am also sick of people not using them and not doing a headcheck before changing lanes…

3 times this week I have nearly been taken out off my bike on the parkway cause people refuse to do a headcheck and indicate for more then 5 seconds before making the move to the next lane…

Learn people, learn to drive properly!

Not using the indicator is my most hated thing while driving. It enfuriates the hell out of me (I assure you all I bottle it inside, no road rage, just a heart attack at 30).

People simply don’t use them or if they do use them they turn them on as they are turning/changing lanes. I don’t need the indicator to see that you are changing lanes, I CAN SEE YOUR BLOODY CAR MOVING.

They are a communication tool to indicate a future move, not a bloody disco effect.

Because people use them in such a useless fashion, whenever I turn mine on to change lanes people beside me freak out because usually that would mean someone is about to crash into them. No, I’ve got them on so people to my side know that I want to get in that lane and will be doing so at the next SAFE opportunity.

indicators? what are you talking about? its just crazy talk!!

“How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.”

And i’m sure the one cop you speak of who does enforce the use of indicators must be the same one who fines drivers using their fog/driving lights all hours of the day or night.

Thanks to the efforts of various public service pen pushers to create Brasilia on the Mongolo over the years and put roundabouts everywhere they can across the ACT, Canberrans refusal to use indicators is a real problem.

What really riles me are those Canberrans who not only refuse to indicate, but disconnect their brake lights too. What’s up with that you crazily dangerous fools?

Hmmm… I wonder if not bothering to use indicators is a symptom of a wider and more serious Canberra driver syndrome. It seems to me that most times I travel somewhere I witness driving that is at the very least plain rude and often dangerous. Here’s three recent examples:

Yesterday I turned left and stopped at a pedestrian crossing with a blind person walking across. Someone turned the corner behind me and didn’t feel like waiting so they swung onto the wrong side of the road, over a double line and through the crossing in circumstances where they couldn’t see what was coming because I drive a large van.

A few days before that I saw the person in the car in front of me drive at speed the wrong way round a roundabout so that they could overtake a bus going through the roundabout. Unsurprisingly, no indicator used. The bus was doing the speed limit (50). No prizes for guessing that they were waiting at the next red light when I got there.

Last week I saw someone weaving through the traffic on Cth Ave bridge. Someone changed lanes in front of them at a fair speed with fair warning. In response the first driver overtook them and slammed the brakes on. Completely unjustified and very dangerous.

It is easy to think of heaps more because I see it all the time. People behave in cars in ways they would never be brave or rude enough to elsewhere. Maybe not bothering to indicate is another example?

I think behaviour can be modified – the changed attitudes to drink driving and smoking are evidence of that. But is it worth a campaign to do so?

And johnboy if we see you using your wheel lock in such a manner, we might realise that we too can assist in removing this deficient gene from our population.

BTW if turning left you still have to indicate. One day I will be driving the fully roll-barred unimog and then there will be some carnage for the indicator deniers

Duke said :

When was the last time, Alpine, you heard of somebody getting pulled over and warned/fined for failing to indicate? Yup, completely voluntary.

How would you know whether or not people get pulled over for failing to indicate? I can assure that it does happen.

Danman said :

European care eh JB ? Indiicator on left hand side of column..

I hired a transit van once to move house and it had european indicator – I indicated turning by activating my windscreen whipers closely followed by indicators many times.

Korean car with a european layout actually.

I abhor the practice of not using indicators — I use mine even when there’s no-one miles around just to make it an automatic action — but to suggest this is a Canberra disease only is a bit blinkered.

When was the last time, Alpine, you heard of somebody getting pulled over and warned/fined for failing to indicate? Yup, completely voluntary.

WHenI purchased my wifes car, I actually made a joke to the salesmen about this. I informed him that since I live in NSW and I was buying the car in the ACT, I would like the optional indicators installed as people use indicators in other parts of the world.

car not care !!??

European care eh JB ? Indiicator on left hand side of column..

I hired a transit van once to move house and it had european indicator – I indicated turning by activating my windscreen whipers closely followed by indicators many times.

Duke said :

And the problem is getting worse, not better. The use of indicators is now completely voluntary and unenforced by the police.
quote]

WHAT?!??!

Is that just this state? Cause that’s the stupides thing I’ve ever heard! (Well, close…)

And the problem is getting worse, not better. The use of indicators is now completely voluntary and unenforced by the police.

Last week I was driving in Weston Creek and happened to be following a police van who made 5 turns without once using his indicator.

I believe the failure of many people to use indicators or even use them properly (notice how some people turn them on when they’re already halfway round the corner?!) is a major cause of stress and road rage.

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