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The prison doors open…

johnboy 15 September 2008 112

[First filed: September 11, 2008 @ 14:56]

The Chief Minister has announced the opening of his great legacy, the Alexander Maconochie Centre in Hume.

Or, as Mr. Stanhope would prefer for it to be known:

    “the first Australian prison built according to human rights principles.”

More info on the prison and a lovely picture of Simon Corbell can be found at www.cs.act.gov.au/amc/home.

UPDATED: For a taste of something truly repellent try the audio from the ABC news of Mr. Stanhope comparing sending prisoners from Canberra to NSW today with transportation from England to Australia in the 18th century. Get a grip you big girl’s blouse.

ANOTHER UPDATE: The Indian press is gobsmacked by this development.


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The prison doors open…
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nyssa76 4:11 pm 16 Sep 08

Can anyone explain to me how exactly soldiers are anything like convicts? Do they not get paid all of a sudden? Has conscription suddenly been reintroduced? Do we not have ANZAC day anymore?

Go enlist, train and all that.

Then we all might listen to what you have to say. Right now, all you’re doing is talking shit.

nyssa76 4:09 pm 16 Sep 08

DMD, are you serious? Do you comprehend a sentence?

Pay soldiers handsomely? Are you the one that is high?

You have no argument.

Your logic is flawed and you need to focus more on learning that preaching absolute BS.

Deadmandrinking 3:59 pm 16 Sep 08

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

DMD, my opinion is that people who have lived and worked and contributed to society have more understanding of it than some kid who hasn’t finished school (ie you).

In other words, you can’t contribute to the argument, so you try to use elitism to make yourself appear smart. Sad, really. So sad.

DMD, my opinion is that people who have lived and worked and contributed to society have more understanding of it than some kid who hasn’t finished school (ie you).

Deadmandrinking 3:34 pm 16 Sep 08

Great to see you actually have an opinion, VY. We certainly benefit from your life experience…*whistle* Ask Thumper about the whole world holding hands theory. Looks like you both have no idea about society.

VG, when you opened your mouth, you lost the argument. Soldiers are not subject to such conditions without reward. You should know this.

Can anyone explain to me how exactly soldiers are anything like convicts? Do they not get paid all of a sudden? Has conscription suddenly been reintroduced? Do we not have ANZAC day anymore?

Thumper, please enlighten us further on your ‘real political will’. You might want to tell us which prisons don’t have drugs as well. If not, maybe a realistic plan to stop drugs from entering the prisons (you’ll have to think about the practices already in place in many prisons).

do have respect for people who have the balls to do that (FYI I actually have a mild to severe hearing impairment that wouldn’t get me past the physical requirements, so it’s not a matter of balls, really)

How convenient. It’s lucky your still studying and know everything, we all benefit so much from your deep life experiences. Perhaps if the whole world held hands and danced all our problems would magically be solved.

Of course, everyone has a right to an opinion, but seriously, STFU!

Thumper 8:53 am 16 Sep 08

Criminals and Soldiers are usually very different people.

Yes, very, very different.

It’s very easy to say ‘Let’s get rid of drugs’, but it is impossible to put that in action. If your theory worked, there would be no drugs in society. But there are, so lets be realistic and worry about health concerns too.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. No drugs in society? Theory? I don’t remember saying anything about that.

I said this ” most of the people in the prison are probably there due to drugs. Therefore it makes perfectly logical sense to ensure that these people no longer take drugs.”

You disagree with that statement? Or are you just going to go off half cocked and keep sprouting the old line about it being impossible to stop drugs in prisons, which frankly is rubbish. All it needs is some real political will.

vg 8:47 am 16 Sep 08

Pay soldiers handsomely?

If there ever was a nail to the coffin of your argument you just drove it home.

I see you in a leather jacket pretending to be Fonzie as you are towed by speedboat to jump the shark cage. You really do have no idea, which is quite sad.

Now was that ‘net me’ or ‘real me’?

Deadmandrinking 8:43 am 16 Sep 08

“Oh, and DMD, once you signed up and worn the uniform then I think you can comment on what motivates a soldier. Some just want security of the job, others like the comradeship, some the lifestyle, others want to test themselves, and yes, some even want to serve in an active service zone.”

Yep, they seem like decent motivations – but all soldiers MUST take into account that THEY WILL be sent to war in the event they are required to do so. Anybody who joins the Army and does not intend to go to war needs to seriously rethink their decisions. The Army is there for defense. That is it’s purpose. Plain and simple.

They should also consider that the army is tough. We, society, want the army to be able to handle tough situations, so we toughen them. That’s why Army jail is tough. It has a low rate of recidivism because most inmates are usually not hardened criminals and are used to tough treatment. Criminals and Soldiers are usually very different people.

Nyssa, have you had your coffee this morning? I’m sorry, but what you wrote was completely idiotic. ‘Given so little’? Are you high? We pay soldiers handsomely, arrange them accommodation, even hold parades for them. They do a good job and for that, they are rewarded. Not to mention the personal satisfaction.

Finally, back to you Thumper. It’s very easy to say ‘Let’s get rid of drugs’, but it is impossible to put that in action. If your theory worked, there would be no drugs in society. But there are, so lets be realistic and worry about health concerns too.

Thumper 8:14 am 16 Sep 08

One thing for sure is that we will never get rid of drugs in prisons if people simply keeping saying things like “You are never going to get rid of drugs in prison”.

I will reiterate, most of the people in the prison are probably there due to drugs. Therefore it makes perfectly logical sense to ensure that these people no longer take drugs.

As for the Arizona sheriff, well, that’s frankly ridiculous. Obviously you still want these people to be able to function when they get out. What we see here with Stanhope’s approach and the Arizona sheriff’s approach, is the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Both need to get some balance and move back towards the middle ground.

Oh, and DMD, once you signed up and worn the uniform then I think you can comment on what motivates a soldier. Some just want security of the job, others like the comradeship, some the lifestyle, others want to test themselves, and yes, some even want to serve in an active service zone.

And as Special G said, military justice is tough, very tough. Stanhope would be spluttering and coughing like a blubbering human rights activist in Burma if he saw Holesworthy.

nyssa76 8:14 am 16 Sep 08

DMD, isn’t it amazing that it’s ADF members, past and present, who’s actions and RESPECT for our country and laws, allow you to make such namby pamby BS comments?

ADF have a lower rate of criminal activity and they actually contribute positively to society. Why should ‘good’ people be given so little whereas ‘bad’ people are given a hell of a lot more than most breadline Australians can afford?

Gaol should be just that – you break the law, you do the time. You don’t get luxuries.

Sucky life? Nah mate, it’s you. Afterall, you have nothing better to do than support Club Med for convicts.

Special G 7:58 am 16 Sep 08

DMD – The comparisons are made as the gaol is practically Club Med Canberra. It is seen by many members of the public as rewarding for commtting crimes.

I don’t think you have much of an understanding behind the motives of people in the army or those in prison. Defence Gaol has about 1% recidivist rate. It is hard/imposed discipline and it works as people don’t go back there twice (or very rarely do.) It is a prison that works as it imposes discipline until people display self discipline. AMC should be the same.

Sentences should be longer and prisoners can reduce their time by displaying they are rehabilitated and can be sent back to the community. The current system doesn’t work. They are not in the “rehab” for long enough to have an effect on their lives and habits.

vg 7:30 am 16 Sep 08

“The same with GOOD cops (not the ones that blatantly abuse their power and let down the public by not properly doing job they applied for).”

I know what you’re childishly trying to imply here, and it really demonstrates how you can’t cogently argue a topic at hand without reverting to your broken record know it all issue when it comes to anything to do with law enforcement and the application of judicial principles. You are a ‘know it all’, the reality is I don’t know it all but know a boat load more about it than you ever will.

The beauty of an anonymous forum is that people can adopt a persona distant from what they really are. You seem to take everything as absolutes, because I take the p1ss, give someone a mouthful or are rude or contrary then that MUST be what I’m like in ‘real’ life and professionally. I MUST be a person who abuses my power, I MUST be one of those ‘bad cops’ that everyone tells me about.

The reality is my professional persona couldn’t be more different from what I present here because, guess what, I am professional in the workplace. I have a cupboard full of commendations and personal letters from members of the public thanking me for the level of service and compassion I display. I have a letter from a person I arrested for fraud who thanked me for the humane, compassionate and professional way that I dealt with them. This was someone I arrested, not a victim.

I have travelled the world with my work and been promoted to what one would describe as a ‘senior’ level. But I must be a ‘bad cop’. I mean how long can I keep up this charade?

Not everything on the net is fact.

Oh, and BTW, I was in the military before I did what I do now. So guess what, I know a boatload more about that than you do. So why don’t you stop your incessant flapping, ranting and espousing of ‘knowledge’ that you’ve gained through reading a conspiracy paper somewhere and let the adults speak.

Don’t immaturely raise the good cop/bad cop thing every time you’re argued into a corner. Its better to let people think you’re and idiot rather than continually hit the keyboard and prove it. Next time you’re walked through an actual prison, spoken to actual prisoners and then had to support victims who suffered at the hand of these prisoners give us a yell. Until then grow up, no one likes a smart ass. I can pretend to be one one the net, but you’re not a good actor

Deadmandrinking 11:15 pm 15 Sep 08

vg said :

Au contraire. I think you would find that the vast minority of ADF staff really want to be involved in armed conflict where their lives would be lost. A bit like saying that all coppers have a desire to get involved in a shoot out every shift. Yes, its a logical consequence that such things may happen because of the occupation you are involved in, but there are severe ramifications if you disobey the order to go.

To take such a simplistic ‘know it all’ view of such issues is idiocy pure and simple. Your clearly not a person who has ever worked a job which has the ramifications of the 2 I described above.

‘Its not like we don’t reward them either’
Money is worth f%ck all if you aren’t alive to spend it. Have a bit of respect for people who have the balls to do the work you don’t

I do have respect for people who have the balls to do that (FYI I actually have a mild to severe hearing impairment that wouldn’t get me past the physical requirements, so it’s not a matter of balls, really). I have enough respect for them to not equal them to prisoners, who are put in those situations because of something they’ve done wrong. People who compare the army to prison are showing massive disrespect for the job and the people who do it.

It is not a matter of wanting to go to war. It is a matter of being prepared to do so come that situation. Most sane people who join the army understand that they will be required to go into living hells if the gov. requires them too. That’s what makes them good at their job. The same with GOOD cops (not the ones that blatantly abuse their power and let down the public by not properly doing job they applied for).

We reward our servicemen with money, respect and recognition of their sacrifice. To think that it’s only about the money shows a clear lack of understanding of why one should join the army.

Prisoners should be in prison to protect the community and rehabilitate them. Rehabilitation is not going to happen if you treat them like dirt. Humans are very adaptable creatures and will act how you treat them. Perhaps showing them that society is something they can learn to respect and gain respect from is a big start to a good thing.

vg 10:51 pm 15 Sep 08

Au contraire. I think you would find that the vast minority of ADF staff really want to be involved in armed conflict where their lives would be lost. A bit like saying that all coppers have a desire to get involved in a shoot out every shift. Yes, its a logical consequence that such things may happen because of the occupation you are involved in, but there are severe ramifications if you disobey the order to go.

To take such a simplistic ‘know it all’ view of such issues is idiocy pure and simple. Your clearly not a person who has ever worked a job which has the ramifications of the 2 I described above.

‘Its not like we don’t reward them either’
Money is worth f%ck all if you aren’t alive to spend it. Have a bit of respect for people who have the balls to do the work you don’t

Deadmandrinking 8:55 pm 15 Sep 08

Mælinar – *spoiler alert* I’ve seen S04E13 said :

Happy to be pointed to another large group of people put in a place that they would rather not be, mostly against their will, and because the establishment told them to be there.

It is not against their will. They agreed to go over there when they signed up KNOWING that they would be deployed in a war-zone come such an event. If you are not prepared to go to war, don’t join the army.

Happy to be pointed to another large group of people put in a place that they would rather not be, mostly against their will, and because the establishment told them to be there.

vg 8:19 pm 15 Sep 08

Poor wittle petal

Deadmandrinking 8:16 pm 15 Sep 08

Also, I’m sick of people trying to compare prison life to military service. You’re making it sound as if our fighting men and women are over there as some kind of punishment. They are doing it as a service to our country and out of their own volition. It’s not like we don’t reward them either.

Deadmandrinking 8:12 pm 15 Sep 08

nyssa76 said :

Yes DMD because God forbid people ‘pay’ for their crimes as opposed to getting a ‘holiday’.

Our defence members in Afghanistan do it a hell of a lot worse than most Aussie convicts.

The ‘softly softly’ approach is why they are recidivists – why change when you can get 3 squares, Foxtel, a pool etc?

Convicts are there because they broke the law – not to be pampered and it’s idiots like you that make it so much harder for the victims to believe that their ‘crim’ got a good slab of justice.

Does that Arizona jail sound anything like a ‘softy softy’ approach, Nyssa? Does Goulburn sound like you’re being pampered? Really? Gee your life must suck.

This jail is a world first. There is no real-world statistic to say that it causes higher recidivism. There are many jails around the world like the one in Arizona and there are high rates of Recidivism all over. The facts are there. People like you just can’t see them.

Make an animal out of a man, he will remain an animal.

nyssa76 8:05 pm 15 Sep 08

Yes DMD because God forbid people ‘pay’ for their crimes as opposed to getting a ‘holiday’.

Our defence members in Afghanistan do it a hell of a lot worse than most Aussie convicts.

The ‘softly softly’ approach is why they are recidivists – why change when you can get 3 squares, Foxtel, a pool etc?

Convicts are there because they broke the law – not to be pampered and it’s idiots like you that make it so much harder for the victims to believe that their ‘crim’ got a good slab of justice.

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