18 April 2012

The thief catcher at Supabarn Civic

| loopol
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Last night’s ‘A Current Affair’ featured a story about ‘thief catcher’ Shane who has made a name for himself spoting shoplifters in supermarkets.

The story saw him parked outside Civic’s Superbarn supermarket, where he caught out a number of shoplifters from a variety of walks of life.

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Skyring said :

HenryBG said :

I think the intelligence of a police officer is more than enough to respond adequately to the insane gibberish you’ve presented us with.

I dunno. I’ve seen some pretty stupid cops. The web is full of ’em. Like this one.

I like it how Taxi drivers always cry fowl at the drop of a hat, yet they park in all the no parking area’s around Civic, out the front of Gus’ Cafe, Academy, then double park on London Cct, not just one but 6 Taxi’s. Then on top of that they choose to ignore all the no entry signs around the City bus interchange. Start following the rules and people will start respecting taxi ranks.

But yeah, some cops can be dicks, some teaches are dicks, most public servants are wankers, some security staff are over the top, some bar tenders rip you off, some supermarkets are more expensive then others some people on the riot act have clear mental health issues.

I’ve met 3 good taxi drivers though, 3 in Canberra in the last 20 years, I’ve caught quite a few taxi’s as well.

screaming banshee3:33 pm 21 Apr 12

I’ve seen plenty of stupid taxi drivers too, take your police hate somewhere else

insert miscellaneous video of stupid taxi driver in another country here

HenryBG said :

I think the intelligence of a police officer is more than enough to respond adequately to the insane gibberish you’ve presented us with.

I dunno. I’ve seen some pretty stupid cops. The web is full of ’em. Like this one.

chilli said :

I think the intelligence of a police officer is more than enough to respond adequately to the insane gibberish you’ve presented us with.

If a drug-#$@%ed loon decides to impede police, gets tasered and for reasons of self-inflicted ill-health dies, it isn’t the police’s fault.

I personally would like there to be far *more* police out on the streets tasering rubbish instead of tucked in behind their nice shiny desks munching on donuts all day.

A boy who’s done no one any serious harm is ‘rubbish’ and dies of ‘self-inflicted illhealth’?

What, are you the coroner? He didn’t die of ‘self inflicted ill-health’ – he died because a bunch of over-excited police tasered him to death. And they tasered him because of a report that he allegedly shop-lifted some biscuits. Truly, is that your idea of a proportionate response?

And how does allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits qualify him as ‘rubbish’?

Hmm. First 3 paragraphs of the above is quoting #60 Henry BG. Next 3 paras are my response.

I think the intelligence of a police officer is more than enough to respond adequately to the insane gibberish you’ve presented us with.

If a drug-#$@%ed loon decides to impede police, gets tasered and for reasons of self-inflicted ill-health dies, it isn’t the police’s fault.

I personally would like there to be far *more* police out on the streets tasering rubbish instead of tucked in behind their nice shiny desks munching on donuts all day.

A boy who’s done no one any serious harm is ‘rubbish’ and dies of ‘self-inflicted illhealth’?

What, are you the coroner? He didn’t die of ‘self inflicted ill-health’ – he died because a bunch of over-excited police tasered him to death. And they tasered him because of a report that he allegedly shop-lifted some biscuits. Truly, is that your idea of a proportionate response?

And how does allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits qualify him as ‘rubbish’?

HenryBG said :

They should have just shot her. Worked a treat on that french guy with the knife at Bondi.

What’s a knife wielding maniac to do these days? Can’t even catch a break walking along a beach ranting and raving while threatening self harm and harm to others.

Let’s just hang back and let Stabby McStabs tire himself out slashing up random people.

phototext said :

“What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not.”

What crap!

I lived next door to a schizophrenic for a couple of years (in Sydney) and when she went off her meds she would really lose the plot. At one point, for a period of a couple of months, me and my housemate where having to call the police several times a night. It was very very bad. Despite being assaulted, abused, spat on, things being thrown at them, refusing to comply to any lawful orders or requests every police officer we dealt with and saw interact with her was patient, understanding and professional. Not once, over at least fifty call outs, did any of the officers act violently towards her, the stuff she got away with was amazing.

Sure, there are some dodgy officers out there but from my experience the majority are doing their best at a hard and thankless job.

They should have just shot her. Worked a treat on that french guy with the knife at Bondi.

“What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not.”

What crap!

I lived next door to a schizophrenic for a couple of years (in Sydney) and when she went off her meds she would really lose the plot. At one point, for a period of a couple of months, me and my housemate where having to call the police several times a night. It was very very bad. Despite being assaulted, abused, spat on, things being thrown at them, refusing to comply to any lawful orders or requests every police officer we dealt with and saw interact with her was patient, understanding and professional. Not once, over at least fifty call outs, did any of the officers act violently towards her, the stuff she got away with was amazing.

Sure, there are some dodgy officers out there but from my experience the majority are doing their best at a hard and thankless job.

It’s been 2 days, and this ninemsn video still hasn’t loaded.

HenryBG said :

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

I personally would like there to be far *more* police out on the streets tasering rubbish instead of tucked in behind their nice shiny desks munching on donuts all day.

I doubt that happens that much these days, I mean can you even get Krispy Kreme any more? There’s no point with any other doughnut.

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

Up your meds. Then double that.

There you go, you must be a police officer as your rebuttal indicates the intelligence of one.

I think the intelligence of a police officer is more than enough to respond adequately to the insane gibberish you’ve presented us with.

If a drug-#$@%ed loon decides to impede police, gets tasered and for reasons of self-inflicted ill-health dies, it isn’t the police’s fault.

I personally would like there to be far *more* police out on the streets tasering rubbish instead of tucked in behind their nice shiny desks munching on donuts all day.

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

Up your meds. Then double that.

There you go, you must be a police officer as your rebuttal indicates the intelligence of one.

It actually seemed a lot more intelligent then your rabid rant, just saying is all.

Dilandach said :

buzz819 said :

How is the shop losing out? The shop lifter was caught and the product was returned to them?

Its mainly from the perspective of discouraging the act in the first place. If copping a $200 is the worst you get at shoplifting, where’s the disincentive to have a go?

What do you think they get in court?

At best a fine, and court fee’s. Show me one case where someone is imprisoned or even given anything more then a good behaviour bond for shop lifting. A punitive, on the spot fine shows more justice for a lot less work.

It is the same as speeding, you don’t want to send every single one of them to court for speeding, how about urinating in public, infringement notice, minor damage or defacing property, infringement notice, drinking in a public place, infringement notice etc.

Stealing a $5 bottle of wine and copping a $200 fine is where the incentive is. If they don’t pay the fine they are locked up on a commitment warrant, that is more then what the court’s will hand out, I guarantee.

Dilandach said :

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

Up your meds. Then double that.

There you go, you must be a police officer as your rebuttal indicates the intelligence of one.

Skyring said :

So he was killed for running away from the police?

More accurately he was killed because he was already under the influence of god knows what. Running around, resisting arrest and getting tasered was obviously enough to push his body over the edge it was already sitting on.

buzz819 said :

How is the shop losing out? The shop lifter was caught and the product was returned to them?

Its mainly from the perspective of discouraging the act in the first place. If copping a $200 is the worst you get at shoplifting, where’s the disincentive to have a go?

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

Up your meds. Then double that.

Thanks, loopol. I didn’t see that when it was aired. The Supabarn is my local, as is the Aldi, and I see any number of dodgy characters in there. Students, political staffers and so on. I was initially concerned this bloke was some sort of vigilante, but after viewing the story – and making allowance for whatever editorial decisions were likely made by the producers – it looks like this chap knows what’s what.

He’s street-smart in that he can spot the tricks of the “professional” shoplifters and knows the behaviour of the amateurs. He lets them go through the checkout and then confronts them. He’s got security cameras on him there, he can call for backup instantly, he has very likely reviewed exactly how far he can go under the law without getting into trouble himself. He’s also likely got the security camera footage from inside to back him up as to why their behaviour caught his eye. He knows what he’s doing.

But that’s by the by. What really impressed me is that he dealt with the various cases effectively and compassionately. No mercy for the well-equipped cashed-up professional or the serial offender, but for the small-time cases, he warns them or calls in their parents. It would be so easy – and expensive for the community – to just hand them over to the cops, press charges and have the machine grind them down. Having a criminal record when young can stain your whole life.

I’ll look out for this bloke in future, and no, I won’t try to waste his time by acting needlessly suspicious. Good on him.

aceofspades said :

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

Wow…. Just wow….

Dilandach said :

chilli said :

Police in Sydney recently demonstrated that they think tasering someone (to death) for allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits is ‘reasonable force’. Makes the pseudo-scurity guard look pretty measured ….

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

chilli said :

Also agree with Buzz819 comment re dealing with shoplifting with an on-the-spot fine. Why make mountains out of molehills?

Because for someone who uses the shop as their meal ticket, it is a mountain. How is a $200 fine going to help someone’s business suffering from theft to the point where it was endangering their business?

Name and shame with photographs on the front window, a criminal record, compensation to the business and if done more than three times within six months a custodial sentence or a complete halt to any social security payments. All of that should be on the spot. There is never an excuse to steal someone else’s property.

How is the shop losing out? The shop lifter was caught and the product was returned to them?

Dilandach said :

chilli said :

Police in Sydney recently demonstrated that they think tasering someone (to death) for allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits is ‘reasonable force’. Makes the pseudo-scurity guard look pretty measured ….

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken.

So he was killed for running away from the police?

Dilandach said :

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

What a load of total bull sh%t! Police love to inflict as much violence as they possibly can, they love the adrenaline and they love having control. They would not be police officers if they did not. I have watched as police pull out pepper spray on a 16yo just because he was asking them too many questions and I have seen how well pepper spray induces compliance. I have also known a police officer personally who openly admitted to me that he looked forward to the day he could get to shoot somebody. In this case they had already used pepper spray and you can almost guarantee the suspect was already compliant but the officers involved could not wait to try out their new toys thinking that it would not kill him but be an awful lot of fun. They did not tazer him just once, everybody had to have a turn. It was an execution over a packet of biscuits. If they were not police officers they would be in jail now. You are either a police officer looking after your own or extremely naive.

chilli said :

Police in Sydney recently demonstrated that they think tasering someone (to death) for allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits is ‘reasonable force’. Makes the pseudo-scurity guard look pretty measured ….

Except it wasn’t because he stole a packet of biscuits, it was because he ran from the cops due to paranoia from being high on whatever it was he’d taken. If he hadn’t, he would have been free to go after it was established he wasn’t their guy. Saying that he was executed in the street because he stole biscuits is as stupid as comments that come about whenever tasers, pepper spray or even guns. “Oh, they didn’t have to use x, It was only one guy! They could have just overpowered him!”

Feel free at any time to valiantly throw your body infront of a crazy.

chilli said :

Also agree with Buzz819 comment re dealing with shoplifting with an on-the-spot fine. Why make mountains out of molehills?

Because for someone who uses the shop as their meal ticket, it is a mountain. How is a $200 fine going to help someone’s business suffering from theft to the point where it was endangering their business?

Name and shame with photographs on the front window, a criminal record, compensation to the business and if done more than three times within six months a custodial sentence or a complete halt to any social security payments. All of that should be on the spot. There is never an excuse to steal someone else’s property.

screaming banshee10:16 pm 19 Apr 12

Doesn’t that hipster loser work at lonsdale street roasters?

threepaws said :

thehutch said :

It is my understanding that Security guards have the same powers of any citizen. If they witness a crime, they are able to detain someone but have to call the police as soon as practicable after the event.

There is nothing stopping them from taking the detained person elsewhere, but the person would have to be willing to go (it’s probably better to deal with the police out of public view as opposed to out the front of supabarn). So if you got detained, you could refuse to go back but they could detain you where you are until the police arrive… including the use of reasonable force (which should be avoided).

I’d be interested to hear your definition of ‘reasonable force’ in regards to shoplifting.

What is a proportionate response to shoplifting? I don’t think that any form of physical restraint is an acceptable option for Joe Public who thinks they can ‘hold’ someone ‘under arrest’ until the police arrive. Leave the police work to the cops.

Police in Sydney recently demonstrated that they think tasering someone (to death) for allegedly stealing a packet of biscuits is ‘reasonable force’. Makes the pseudo-scurity guard look pretty measured ….

Also agree with Buzz819 comment re dealing with shoplifting with an on-the-spot fine. Why make mountains out of molehills?

Something bothered me about this and it took a while to work it out.

It wasn’t that the shoplifters were getting caught, shop theft costs us all a bomb.

It wasn’t that the guy was such a bully, hey he just doing what he’s been good at all his life, acting tough to scare people weaker than himself.

In the end it was that ACA set themselves up as a megafont of holier-than-thou self-righteousness and the great unwashed eagerly participate in schadenfreude, which is a really ugly facet of society.

Not that watching people be humiliated is new. Even the romans humiliated, tortured and killed their ‘criminals’ for the enjoyment of the masses.

“He’s known as the ‘thief catcher’. Able to spot a shoplifter before they’ve even stolen anything from the store,”

It’s like the Minority Report

p1 said :

What worries me about this story is that it might encourage “security” at shops to be a little more in peoples faces.

OH NOES! And safety belts make people drive badly!

djk said :

The only thing I cant work out is why ACA are running more or less the same story less than a month after they ran the last one…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbC6OqCs4us

Wondered the same, was sure I’d seen that guy in an ACA story before…

Wow, some of the comments on here are unbelievable, the store owner should be locked up because he stocks items that people can steal probably tops the cake.

What should be able to occur in these instances is quite simple, but it isn’t.

This is how it works now; Johnny Theif Catcher nabs Dastardly Dan the shoplifter who just stole a $35 bottle of scotch, or his undies full of chocolates, what ever it is. The Catcher calls the Police, who show up, offer Dan an interview, he says yes, they interview him, he then talks to a lawyer and doesn’t want to speak any more. He is taken to court, where he delays proceedings by changing his mind on what he wants to do etc. Pleads not guilty so the DPP have more work, the Police have more work and the court is tied up with a petty shop lifting charge. 100’s of man hours.

Here’s what should happen. Police turn up, Catcher says “Ere’s old chum, stuck this bottle down in his pants and walked out with it, didn’t try to pay or nuffin.”

Police grab Dastardly Dan, “Well Dan, here’s a criminal infringement notice for minor theft, you have to pay the ACT Government $200 fine, no go away.”

If Dan want’s to plead not guilty, there is still the option to dispute it, in the long run it saves a lot of court time, Police time and people are given a consequence at the time of the offence, kind of like the difference between Police pulling you over for speeding, or a red light camera.

What worries me about this story is that it might encourage “security” at shops to be a little more in peoples faces. As someone who hasn’t shoplifted anything, I get a little irritated when security start to get pushy.

If this guy has caught so many people though, I assume he is either *very* good at correctly picking thieves, or he is pretty good at talking down people he wrongly accuses.

HenryBG said :

What *is* it about crims getting caught that upsets lefties so much?

You’d think they’d be glad of them getting caught!

It means more work for social workers, support services, probation services, “men’s groups”, mental health, domestic services, counselors etc etc etc…

All the things the lefties love.

The only thing I cant work out is why ACA are running more or less the same story less than a month after they ran the last one…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbC6OqCs4us

HenryBG said :

What *is* it about crims getting caught that upsets lefties so much?

Maybe the ‘lefties’ don’t like seeing crims locked up because more people before the courts means a greater chance that they may be called for jury service?

You would sympathise with that view wouldn’t you?

As a co-owner of a shop in Canberra, all I can say is at least someone is doing something to catch these thieves. If it works, then do it.

The other owners and myself have caught so many thieves in our shop – all ages with the eldest around 80. One of them told me that I couldn’t ban him from the shop..that I had no right!!!

It doesn’t matter where your shop is located and who the residents are close by – thieves are thieves.

Need the name and shame wall back in the shops.

He should work for the AFP – they do that 247!

If an attacker uses offensive words then feel free to put your foot at the back of their head, from the front of their face.

If a shop is so stupid to keep putting out product that gets stolen, then they need to be locked up for wasting police resources!

omg that was a quality uber-bogan ACA segment – i loved it!!! especially loved the way the thief catcher enunciates what you been stealing?. how about the drunken alleged ex-loss prevention officer near the end? brilliant!

KeenGolfer said :

Crimes Act 1900, s 218: Power of arrest without warrant by other persons:

(1) A person who is not a police officer may, without warrant, arrest another person if he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is committing or has just committed an offence.
(2) A person who arrests another person under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practicable after the arrest, arrange for the other person, and any property found on the other person, to be delivered into the custody of a police officer.

If this ‘loss prevention officer’ intercepts an innocent person and cannot sustain or defend his founded *belief* that someone has committed an offence (note: must be greater strength than a mere suspicion), then he’d be liable for various torts such as assault or false imprisonment.

There’s also the requirement under subsection (2) that the person making the citizen arrest deliver the arrested person and any property to the police. If he uses (1) as a shield from any claims of tortious liability, then he must comply with (2) in every case. Clearly, as shown in the video he has some latitude, and may be making unlawfully incomplete citizen arrests.

ACT Policing have guidance here: http://www.police.act.gov.au/crime-and-safety/for-act-businesses/~/media/act/pdf/BizSafe-Citizens-Arrest-Factsheet.ashx

This is my local and I don’t blame the owners at all..I have witnessed plenty of people fronted and bags unloaded to reveal bottles of Jim beam, vodka, or whatever else took their fancy..Never saw anybody grabbed and marched back in, but most copped to it when they were verbally accused…I would be careful with use of force if I was the thief-catcher, as a previous post menioned, grab the wrong person and 10 types of Hell could ensue..

DeskMonkey said :

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

Is that acting like a suspicious fish?

Myles Peterson said :

One wrongful arrest will financially wipe out 1,000 “successful grabs.”

This guy is a legal time-bomb waiting to happen. A smart crook will get themselves grabbed when they’re carrying nothing and game over. If I was his boss, I’d sack him or at the very least put him through an intense loss-prevention course run by real cops.

The usual crim-friendly nonsense from myles.

God forbid somebody be out there making life difficult for criminals. The outrage!

You don’t even have to be a security guard and you are perfectly entitled to grab hold of somebody you’ve seen stealing something.

What *is* it about crims getting caught that upsets lefties so much?

Here_and_Now5:58 pm 18 Apr 12

DeskMonkey said :

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

Sorry, you’ll have to help me out here. How will that make anything better?

(I’m also not sure it’ll work.)

damien haas said :

Northwest9 said :

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

crabs ?

Not to mention ten pounds of crack…

damien haas said :

Northwest9 said :

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

crabs ?

Hehe. Only problem is that there’s no crab in that imitation crab meat.

Winter is the best season for these people. Big loose jumpers, hoodies with hoods (duh) and huge pockets over the stomach area.

damien haas said :

Northwest9 said :

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

crabs ?

ROFLMAO

Northwest9 said :

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

crabs ?

bearlikesbeer said :

…As for physically detaining people, he’d want to be very sure they’d stolen something. If I was walking out of a supermarket and a guy in plain clothes grabbed me or blocked my path, accused me of shoplifting (within earshot of other shoppers), then tried to lead me somewhere, I’d stay right were I was and call the cops myself. I can’t imagine the cops would be too pleased with this guy if it turned out he accused, and attempted to detain, someone who didn’t nick anything.

Perhaps you ought to familiarise yourself with the part of the Crimes Act posted earlier – the bit that says it’s lawful for a non-police officer to detain someone on suspicion of committing a crime. Seeing as it’s his job, I’m sure he would be pretty certain before detaining anyone.

Northwest9 said :

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

I’ve seen that junkie around Civic heaps. Didn’t recognise the others, not sure if that “public servant” was a public servant though, usually they have a lanyard with ID card. Supabarn is across the road from Bega flats and just up the road from those horrible govvy flats at the end of Ainslie Av. Probably where most of these people live.

VeryMildSuperPowers said :

So thats who that prick was. I was getting a coffee from the Muffin Break out the front of Supabarn and checked this guy eye balling me. Carried on minding my own business. Then I feel my backpack get pushed off my shoulder, turn around, and there he is with that blonde bird in tow. I’m about to say something like “you right?” and they walk off.

So how’d your dad take it once he was called in to the store?

bearlikesbeer said :

As for physically detaining people, he’d want to be very sure they’d stolen something. If I was walking out of a supermarket and a guy in plain clothes grabbed me or blocked my path, accused me of shoplifting (within earshot of other shoppers), then tried to lead me somewhere, I’d stay right were I was and call the cops myself. I can’t imagine the cops would be too pleased with this guy if it turned out he accused, and attempted to detain, someone who didn’t nick anything.

Hahaha, so you would let him off light then, my reflex reaction would probably be a little more severe.

Wow, I musta been on days off while this was happening. That’s my local. I don’t think I have seen that guy around but then again I don’t really take much notice. A confession, I’ve put through red capsicum as green on the self serve before. So I’m a shoplifter too. Probably saved myself upwards of $2 cents over the last 12 months. Not quote as brazen as stuffing $90 of groceries in a bag and then going through with a small bag of bananas.

girl caught with seafood down her pants…..

*snigger*

2.0 said :

KeenGolfer said :

Crimes Act 1900, s 218: Power of arrest without warrant by other persons:

(1) A person who is not a police officer may, without warrant, arrest another person if he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is committing or has just committed an offence.
(2) A person who arrests another person under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practicable after the arrest, arrange for the other person, and any property found on the other person, to be delivered into the custody of a police officer.

+1 anybody can perform a “citizens arrest”

That pretty much reinforces my general understanding of how this stuff works, so going back to my original curiosity: Would it be considered reasonable use of force to roughly grab a smallish female by the arm to halt her progress, before informing her that she was under arrest, as I saw this guy doing in the ad?

thehutch said :

It is my understanding that Security guards have the same powers of any citizen. If they witness a crime, they are able to detain someone but have to call the police as soon as practicable after the event.

There is nothing stopping them from taking the detained person elsewhere, but the person would have to be willing to go (it’s probably better to deal with the police out of public view as opposed to out the front of supabarn). So if you got detained, you could refuse to go back but they could detain you where you are until the police arrive… including the use of reasonable force (which should be avoided).

This is correct.

threepaws said :

I’d be interested to hear your definition of ‘reasonable force’ in regards to shoplifting.

What is a proportionate response to shoplifting? I don’t think that any form of physical restraint is an acceptable option for Joe Public who thinks they can ‘hold’ someone ‘under arrest’ until the police arrive. Leave the police work to the cops.

This one is fairly simple. If you place a person under arrest and they attempt to flee you may restrain them using reasonable force. That does not mean belting the shit out of them, just using enough force to restrain them. The more they struggle the more force you can resonably use to restrain them etc etc.

In a store such as a superbarn there are liable to be multiple witnesses to the reasonablness of the force you used, plus security cameras. As long as one does not go overboard the weight of evidence will be with store security.

The flip side is, if they get it wrong they are in a whole world of legal pain, from assault to false imprisonment and probally some more too. Civil and criminal charges may follow.

KeenGolfer said :

Crimes Act 1900, s 218: Power of arrest without warrant by other persons:

(1) A person who is not a police officer may, without warrant, arrest another person if he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is committing or has just committed an offence.
(2) A person who arrests another person under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practicable after the arrest, arrange for the other person, and any property found on the other person, to be delivered into the custody of a police officer.

+1 anybody can perform a “citizens arrest”

bearlikesbeer1:30 pm 18 Apr 12

He didn’t accuse any grown men of shoplifting. I only saw him accuse women, and a teenage boy. I wonder how many adult males he’s witnessed shoplifting, and decided it’s best not to approach them. 

The people he cornered appeared to confess immediately, and comply with his directions to return to the office. Bit weird. I think he’s choosing his targets very carefully, and leaving the potentially violent ones to the police.

As for physically detaining people, he’d want to be very sure they’d stolen something. If I was walking out of a supermarket and a guy in plain clothes grabbed me or blocked my path, accused me of shoplifting (within earshot of other shoppers), then tried to lead me somewhere, I’d stay right were I was and call the cops myself. I can’t imagine the cops would be too pleased with this guy if it turned out he accused, and attempted to detain, someone who didn’t nick anything.

thehutch said :

It is my understanding that Security guards have the same powers of any citizen. If they witness a crime, they are able to detain someone but have to call the police as soon as practicable after the event.

There is nothing stopping them from taking the detained person elsewhere, but the person would have to be willing to go (it’s probably better to deal with the police out of public view as opposed to out the front of supabarn). So if you got detained, you could refuse to go back but they could detain you where you are until the police arrive… including the use of reasonable force (which should be avoided).

I’d be interested to hear your definition of ‘reasonable force’ in regards to shoplifting.

What is a proportionate response to shoplifting? I don’t think that any form of physical restraint is an acceptable option for Joe Public who thinks they can ‘hold’ someone ‘under arrest’ until the police arrive. Leave the police work to the cops.

Crimes Act 1900, s 218: Power of arrest without warrant by other persons:

(1) A person who is not a police officer may, without warrant, arrest another person if he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is committing or has just committed an offence.
(2) A person who arrests another person under subsection (1) shall, as soon as practicable after the arrest, arrange for the other person, and any property found on the other person, to be delivered into the custody of a police officer.

BenMac said :

After just quickly watching the first minute, it appears this guy is trying to impersonate himself as a police officer.

That’s easy, I’m really good at impersonating myself.

BenMac said :

He flashes a badge and even states to the shoplifter before police arrive that they are under arrest.

He shows them his ID, which identifies him as a member of store security, and asks them to go with him.

Myles Peterson said :

One wrongful arrest will financially wipe out 1,000 “successful grabs.”

But only the police have power of arrest, and seeing as this geezer calls the cops multiple times a day, do you not think the police would be onto him if he was doing anything illegal of dodgy?

It is my understanding that Security guards have the same powers of any citizen. If they witness a crime, they are able to detain someone but have to call the police as soon as practicable after the event.

There is nothing stopping them from taking the detained person elsewhere, but the person would have to be willing to go (it’s probably better to deal with the police out of public view as opposed to out the front of supabarn). So if you got detained, you could refuse to go back but they could detain you where you are until the police arrive… including the use of reasonable force (which should be avoided).

Erg0 said :

I expect that he’d only need to show that he had reasonable grounds to suspect you’d committed a crime (assuming it works the same as for police).

He’s not a police officer or a security guard. Does he have the right to lay a hand on people, flash a badge in their face and demand that they go with him into the back room.

trickyxr said :

Why? the story wasnt about innocent people

No it wasn’t but unless he proves to me that he is acting lawfully in apprehending the guilty then why should I put up with someone being high and mighty, a “professional shoplifting catcher”…thats what cops and security guards are for.

DeskMonkey said :

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

Hahahaha! It’s amazing what things wind some people up to the point they’d go out of their way to waste their own time to make a point about a trivial issue!
Go for it and let us know how it goes! Gotta fight ‘the man’! Hahahaha! 🙂

Good on him for catching thieves.

DeskMonkey said :

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

I expect that he’d only need to show that he had reasonable grounds to suspect you’d committed a crime (assuming it works the same as for police).

DeskMonkey said :

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

Why? the story wasnt about innocent people

I have a mind to go in there and act suspiscious then take him to court for harrasment

Myles Peterson11:37 am 18 Apr 12

One wrongful arrest will financially wipe out 1,000 “successful grabs.”

This guy is a legal time-bomb waiting to happen. A smart crook will get themselves grabbed when they’re carrying nothing and game over. If I was his boss, I’d sack him or at the very least put him through an intense loss-prevention course run by real cops.

After just quickly watching the first minute, it appears this guy is trying to impersonate himself as a police officer.

He flashes a badge and even states to the shoplifter before police arrive that they are under arrest.

I’m not condoning shoplifting in anyway cause it does leave a lot of big, and most times small stores out of pocket, but if this guy grabs you, you don’t have to go with him. All he can do is keep you in the area til police arrive.

VeryMildSuperPowers10:58 am 18 Apr 12

So thats who that prick was. I was getting a coffee from the Muffin Break out the front of Supabarn and checked this guy eye balling me. Carried on minding my own business. Then I feel my backpack get pushed off my shoulder, turn around, and there he is with that blonde bird in tow. I’m about to say something like “you right?” and they walk off.

Well, there you go. I was mildly curious after seeing the ad, as he seemed to be physically restraining people as he nabbed them (i.e. grabbing them from behind), which I understood to be beyond the powers of a security guard.

THAT GUY. I thought he was just a bogan perv.

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