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Theory v practice

triffid 16 July 2010 26

I am sure most Rioters would be aware that, here in the ACT, we have the highest proportion of people with tertiary qualifications in Australia.  We also have the highest proportion of people with a post-graduate qualification in Australia.  One might reasonably assume, then, that there exists a collectively higher IQ in our fair land. 

This would likely explain, then, why so many highly intelligent people got into their grey / silver / black / dark red / dark blue motor vehicles this morning and drove to work — in the thick fog — with no lights on whatsoever. 

I know that you’re all magnificently intelligent and clever and stuff and that you can see, well, OK in conditions like that.  And I can also see that you’re so unbelieveably considerate and thoughtful of other road users.   I suppose, then, that in future you won’t mind if I (who can see satisfactorily to operate the vehicle safely as well yet who does have my lights on) fail to render you right-of-way, or merging space, or operate my vehicle without strict lane discipline, or neglects to give sufficent room when changing lanes, or any other courtesy normally offered to my fellow travellers simply because no-one else can see you.

It would seem that intelligence is no substitute for common sense.

T Y F L O . . . please.


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WonderfulWorld WonderfulWorld 9:47 pm 22 Jul 10

Obviously not, you assume that because you might be able to see someone that someone will be able to see you. By that logic, if there is street lights on the road your are on you could just drive around with no headlights.

Whatever, I’m refering to driving around during daylight with lights on during a fog.

bd84 bd84 11:46 pm 17 Jul 10

You can legally drive/ride with your normal headlights on at any time, I have no problems with motorcyclists riding with their normal headlight on and motoring groups recommend you drive with headlights on when driving on regional roads as other road users will see you from further away. Running lights (i.e. the LED strips) are also considered legal, they are the same as normal headlights.

Fog lights are high beam and by law are required to have a separate switch to turn them on/of. Cars fitted with them also normally have a warning light, similar to the one for high beams, on the instrument panel to tell the driver that they are on. By law they are only permitted to be used in fog or in heavy rain, and it is an offense to be using them at any other time.

No excuses for them to be incorrectly used, they do not make your car any better or look any better.

WonderfulWorld said :

WonderfulWorld said :

If I can see I don’t use any lights, if I can’t I don’t, generally if you can’t see they can’t see you, if you can see they should see you without lights – all this and no uni degree.

should read, if I can’t see I do – yup definately no uni degree. babom.

Obviously not, you assume that because you might be able to see someone that someone will be able to see you. By that logic, if there is street lights on the road your are on you could just drive around with no headlights.

They really need to change license tests to include education about the use of your headlights in night/dusk/overcast/raining/foggy conditions, it’s clear that people don’t have any sort of common sense.

WonderfulWorld WonderfulWorld 7:48 pm 17 Jul 10

WonderfulWorld said :

If I can see I don’t use any lights, if I can’t I don’t, generally if you can’t see they can’t see you, if you can see they should see you without lights – all this and no uni degree.

should read, if I can’t see I do – yup definately no uni degree. babom.

WonderfulWorld WonderfulWorld 7:46 pm 17 Jul 10

If I can see I don’t use any lights, if I can’t I don’t, generally if you can’t see they can’t see you, if you can see they should see you without lights – all this and no uni degree.

p1 p1 3:26 pm 17 Jul 10

Wraith said :

So how do feel about Motorbikes then? Higher light, permanently on, and bright, and if we are talking about practical purposes, then there is a difference, fog lights are directional to the front for more light in poor conditions, which “dazzle” people, driving lights have a more spread beam of light for the sides of the roads. Driving lights are smaller and not as powerful as headlights.

Mmmm, where to start.

Motorbikes are fitted with low and high beam, just like cars. Low beam (on cars and bikes), in addition to being dimmer, are specifically aimed low. So it can light up the road a reasonable distance in front, but still not go in the window of a car ahead of you.

Fog lights are usually both dimmer and aimed lower then driving lights. There are supposed to help with visibility in fog, and as such brighter lights would be a disadvantage, hence why you don’t use your high beams in fog.

Driving lights, which can be either wide beams or spotlights, are designed to supplement the cars legally required headlights. Legally, they should be wired such that they only come on with the high beam (otherwise they are considered fog lights). If you are in a situation where your low beams are not providing sufficient lighting for the speed you are going, then slow down.

In closing, not all people without a degree are idiots, but some are.

Pork Hunt Pork Hunt 1:33 pm 17 Jul 10

Thank you bd84,scoot and 54-11. We rest our case..

Wraith, the law about bike lights was canned years ago although some manufacturers seem to persist. My 2002 Triumph HAS a headlight switch for instance..

Wraith Wraith 12:01 pm 17 Jul 10

54-11 said :

Wraith, for all practical purposes, there is no difference. Both dazzle drivers both coming toward them, and in their rear vision mirrors.

If only people used their intelligence and used either under the proper conditions, then there would be no problem.

Use your wanker lights when there is fog, or if you’re out in the country and there is limited street lighting. Don’t use them in urban areas when visibility is fine.

Otherwise you’re just another wanker.

And it’s time that enforcement agencies started doing something about it – it’s not as if the cops can’t see them! As already said, dazzling other drivers is a safety issue, far more than doing a few kms above the speed limit.

So how do feel about Motorbikes then? Higher light, permanently on, and bright, and if we are talking about practical purposes, then there is a difference, fog lights are directional to the front for more light in poor conditions, which “dazzle” people, driving lights have a more spread beam of light for the sides of the roads. Driving lights are smaller and not as powerful as headlights.

I ride a bike as well, and drive a car with driving lights factory fitted, and use them, so I guess I am a wanker, but couldn’t give a toss what you think really. But with both vehicles I am seen easily, and have not had many issues in traffic due to this.

Sorry, but lots of urban areas where light is supposed to be fine, simply isn’t, yellow street lights fixed that because of all the people complains about white light (I don’t disagree with the yellow lights, easier to sleep) but which one is it, better street lighting or driving lights on?

If you have been “dazzled” by driving lights in the mirror, you have been fit by fog lights, driving lights will not cause this in a rear view mirror, next you will say ban all bike lights, because they are just dangerous and bright and too high and whatever.

My whole point here is actually, if this really bothers people, time to get out of the house more and find a hobby, this issue is pathetic.

Potato Potato 11:30 am 17 Jul 10

Wraith said :

Sorry, just because you have a degree doesn’t make you intelligent automatically, just proves you can read and follow instructions.

+1. The stupidest people I know have university degrees. And that is not just because I live in Canberra so I only know people with university degrees…

54-11 54-11 11:10 am 17 Jul 10

Wraith, for all practical purposes, there is no difference. Both dazzle drivers both coming toward them, and in their rear vision mirrors.

If only people used their intelligence and used either under the proper conditions, then there would be no problem.

Use your wanker lights when there is fog, or if you’re out in the country and there is limited street lighting. Don’t use them in urban areas when visibility is fine.

Otherwise you’re just another wanker.

And it’s time that enforcement agencies started doing something about it – it’s not as if the cops can’t see them! As already said, dazzling other drivers is a safety issue, far more than doing a few kms above the speed limit.

Wraith Wraith 9:58 am 17 Jul 10

Seems to be most people confuse fog lights with driving lights, the latter being lights to better illuminate the side of the road instead of more to the front, which don’t “dazzle” people, I have never been “dazzled” by driving lights.

So much for the theory that degree qualified people are more intelligent……

Sorry, just because you have a degree doesn’t make you intelligent automatically, just proves you can read and follow instructions.

facet facet 7:17 am 17 Jul 10

Fisho said :

The title says it all.

In theory Canberrans have* a clue….
In practice, different story.

*as in, have the ability to form a working party to raise the funding to investigate ways to implement a ban that will keep people away from seeing the problem thus creating the illusion that the problem is resolved.

I think that what you meant to say was: “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.”

For example funding would need to be available to investigate the first stage of the feasibility study to investigate the long term environmental impact of driving with lights on during a low precipitation event.

BenMac BenMac 6:51 am 17 Jul 10

I just find it funny when you see someone with their high beams on during thick fog. Surely they’d realise it becomes a complete white-out and even harder to see.

Fiona Fiona 10:53 pm 16 Jul 10

On high beam – if I get high beamed lights in my rearview mirror I sometimes get that thing where I lose that spot of vision for a little time. Soemtimes briefly, but it’s still disconcerting.

And it happens more with 4wds as they are higher and more likely to hit that spot.

scoot scoot 10:35 pm 16 Jul 10

Holden Caulfield said :

What’s the big deal about [foglights]? At least those tools can be seen; that’s the real issue here, making yourself visible to other motorists.

Foglights are illegal and for a reason. They dazzle cars in front and oncoming traffic. A pet hate of a great many people.

Punter Punter 10:31 pm 16 Jul 10

On a positive, I would like to extend a big thumbs up to the group of cars travelling north on the parkway near the zoo at about 7 am, and more again at about 9 am in the same spot, all driving at common sense speed to match the fog soup – and surprisingly, nobody lane hopping.

bd84 bd84 10:26 pm 16 Jul 10

Holden Caulfield said :

Pork Hunt said :

It all averages out when you count the number of TOOLS who drive with head lights and foglights on.

What’s the big deal about that? At least those tools can be seen; that’s the real issue here, making yourself visible to other motorists.

The real tools are the ones with just parking lights on. They’ve actually made a conscious decision to turn some lights on and you still can’t see them!

The big deal is that fog lights are high beam, they blind oncoming drivers when used in clear conditions or in light rain. It is just as illegal to drive with them in clear conditions on as it is to drive around with your high beams always on. But then my theory is that people who drive with them on are just making up for their small penis.

On the subject of people without a brain and who don’t turn their headlights on in the fog, there are just as many idiots who do exactly the same thing when it is pouring with rain. But I guess they’re the same idiots who I see everyday driving in the pitch dark at night with no headlights on, I don’t understand how people don’t realise this when they can’t see their speedo and instruments.. I think there should be manditory IQ tests for drivers, those who don’t pass should be taken out the back and shot.

cleo cleo 9:44 pm 16 Jul 10

Well it would help to stop more accidents in Canberra, I am amazed in Canberra how many people don’t do this and also do the same speeds when raining as they would do if it wasn’t raining.

georgesgenitals georgesgenitals 7:48 pm 16 Jul 10

I’d settle for middle aged idiots in 4WDs disocovering the left hand lane, and not trying to throw their stupid machines around corners like a WRX.

To the tosser in the white BMW 4WD with the bike on the roof near Duffy this evening – grow a brain.

Holden Caulfield Holden Caulfield 7:15 pm 16 Jul 10

Pork Hunt said :

It all averages out when you count the number of TOOLS who drive with head lights and foglights on.

What’s the big deal about that? At least those tools can be seen; that’s the real issue here, making yourself visible to other motorists.

The real tools are the ones with just parking lights on. They’ve actually made a conscious decision to turn some lights on and you still can’t see them!

Fisho Fisho 6:52 pm 16 Jul 10

The title says it all.

In theory Canberrans have* a clue….
In practice, different story.

*as in, have the ability to form a working party to raise the funding to investigate ways to implement a ban that will keep people away from seeing the problem thus creating the illusion that the problem is resolved.

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