Things we haven’t been talking much about in Election 2012

johnboy 4 October 2012 47

There are piles of election guff blowing about that we’re not really bothering to pass on to you guys because it’s very dull, mostly inconsequential, and we’re all a bit sick of it. But here’s a quick rundown with the most honest answers you’re likely to see and those who care can knock themselves out in the comments.

    — Should the Liberals give their costings to Treasury? Probably

    — Will someone in Treasury corruptly hand over information to their mates in the Labor party? Probably

    — Does this justify the Liberals dragging the chain? Maybe

    — Will rates triple? Over a long enough timeframe, yes, over not dis-similar timeframes we’re all dead.

    — Will your income grow fast enough to pay for the increasing rates without messing with your life? For some of you yes, for others no.

    — Could Labor have done any of the plethora of things they’re promising over the preceding decade+ of Government? They really should have.

    — Could the machinery of ACT Government function more efficiently? It is hard to believe improvements could not be made (the Actew patronage machinery is particularly troubling, but all parties seem to rather like the idea)

OK, those who care feel free to vent.

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47 Responses to Things we haven’t been talking much about in Election 2012
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Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 3:10 pm 05 Oct 12

Mothy said :

Matt_Watts said :

Alright – so if I were to ask Al how he’d vote regarding the censure of the CM in her capacity as Health Minister, not for falsifying the data herself, but for refusing to investigate who the other data fraudsters were (following on from the Auditor-General’s finding), would that be a matter accountability or negativity?

I’d instead ask what the purpose of a censure motion is. Attention has already been drawn to the issue. Move on to the next thing.

Matt_Watts said :

As for the rates business….

Tell me why continuing to depend on stamp duty makes sense?

I’ve been open with the fact I do see benefits to the change, because the stream of income for the ACT government would be easier to predict and removing stamp duty would remove a barrier for empty nesters to downsize if they wish.

As I’ve said before, though, it’s an issue of fairness. People who own homes have already paid their stamp duty, and the intended replacement policy is that they’ll be paying that amount again every four years or so. Also, it’s going to force those on fixed incomes such as pensioners to downsize, whether they want to or not. Finally, a positive for the current policy under the banner of fairness is that it is a progressive tax ie those who purchase more houses (either as investments or in an upwardly mobile fashion) pay more tax than those who simply choose to pay off one family home.

Mothy Mothy 2:34 pm 05 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

Alright – so if I were to ask Al how he’d vote regarding the censure of the CM in her capacity as Health Minister, not for falsifying the data herself, but for refusing to investigate who the other data fraudsters were (following on from the Auditor-General’s finding), would that be a matter accountability or negativity?

I’d instead ask what the purpose of a censure motion is. Attention has already been drawn to the issue. Move on to the next thing.

Matt_Watts said :

As for the rates business….

Tell me why continuing to depend on stamp duty makes sense?

pirate_taco pirate_taco 10:30 am 05 Oct 12

Gungahlin Al said :

People have had a gutful of the constant adversarial negativity that has typified the last four years of our Assembly. How can the Liberals expect anyone to take them seriously on something important when they are always complaining about absolutely every single thing? Boy cried wolf… The Council I was part of was free of party politics and every decision was made on its merits. The voting numbers changed constantly depending on the issue. It’s a better way of doing government. I know a lot of people questioned why then I joined in with the Greens – well this is how the Greens go about all their business – even down to ordinary meetings and debates, making it a very large part of the reason why. And I agree with the underlying policy platform.

The adversarial negativity is part of a broader trend of partisan politics in Australia, as we see by the school yard bullying and name calling that happens regularly in the House of Representatives.

Pirate Party Australia has a long term goal of revolutionizing the political process to foster participative democracy, at least within its own decision making process see http://pirateparty.org.au/wiki/Polly

If any of our candidates (Mark Gibbons, Stuart Biggs or myself) are elected to the Legislative Assembly, we will vote for or against each proposal on its merits.

Glen Takkenberg
Pirate Party ACT for Ginninderra

Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 10:14 am 05 Oct 12

Mothy said :

Gungahlin Al said :

People have had a gutful of the constant adversarial negativity that has typified the last four years of our Assembly. How can the Liberals expect anyone to take them seriously on something important when they are always complaining about absolutely every single thing? Boy cried wolf… The Council I was part of was free of party politics and every decision was made on its merits. The voting numbers changed constantly depending on the issue. It’s a better way of doing government. I know a lot of people questioned why then I joined in with the Greens – well this is how the Greens go about all their business – even down to ordinary meetings and debates, making it a very large part of the reason why. And I agree with the underlying policy platform.

And there, as though your work on the GCC were not reason enough already, is why you have my vote. Balance of Power politics.

Alright – so if I were to ask Al how he’d vote regarding the censure of the CM in her capacity as Health Minister, not for falsifying the data herself, but for refusing to investigate who the other data fraudsters were (following on from the Auditor-General’s finding), would that be a matter accountability or negativity?

As for the rates business, all I can do is refer to what Barr said in the assembly; I didn’t refer to the Quinlan review, but he did. Other than that, the only response from Labor and the Greens is “trust us”.

It may appear negative, but accountability has a role in politics (which is why I’m happy to post here). For all I know, the only reason the govt is claiming twenty years (as a policy, mind you) is precisely as a result of the Liberals’ campaign.

pirate_taco pirate_taco 10:12 am 05 Oct 12

I support the Labor policy of phasing out stamp duty. This policy is about a decade overdue and if it had of been introduced earlier there would be less pain involved in the transition, however I do think the transition period is long enough to ensure a smooth transition. Over 20 years rates will have likely tripled without this anyway. What were your rates 20 years ago like?

Canberra needs a steady income stream, and relying on the fluctuations of the property market is shortsighted, and unfairly taxes those whose circumstances require them to sell and re-buy in another location for whatever reason, be it a relationship breakdown, to move closer to work, or get more space to raise children.
It will also make it easier for low income families to buy their own homes without the need for government intervention via the home buyer concession scheme to subsidize stamp duty.

The stamp duty on an average value house today (using figures from a random Belconnen property on allhomes worth $495k) is $17,813 and the yearly rates bill $1338.
Is it fair to make someone moving home pay over 13 years worth of rates up front?

On the topic of hard rubbish collection, as my colleague Stuart Biggs raised earlier in this thread, many small councils can do this cost effectively, why can’t we?

Glen Takkenberg
Pirate Party ACT for Ginninderra

Mothy Mothy 9:55 am 05 Oct 12

Gungahlin Al said :

People have had a gutful of the constant adversarial negativity that has typified the last four years of our Assembly. How can the Liberals expect anyone to take them seriously on something important when they are always complaining about absolutely every single thing? Boy cried wolf… The Council I was part of was free of party politics and every decision was made on its merits. The voting numbers changed constantly depending on the issue. It’s a better way of doing government. I know a lot of people questioned why then I joined in with the Greens – well this is how the Greens go about all their business – even down to ordinary meetings and debates, making it a very large part of the reason why. And I agree with the underlying policy platform.

And there, as though your work on the GCC were not reason enough already, is why you have my vote. Balance of Power politics.

rosscoact rosscoact 8:31 am 05 Oct 12

Yes Matt, hard indeed to tell where obfuscation ends and lies start, from both parties.

Gungahlin Al Gungahlin Al 7:55 am 05 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

The ALP are back-peddling, yet the legislation to triple rates over the next several years has been passed.

Several? Since when does 20 plus years ever fall into the bracket of “several” Matt? That really is spinning to the extreme. “What a tangled web we weave, when we set out to deceive…” It seems it’s the Liberal spin on this that is unravelling as people start to do the maths and realise that Zed is trying to pull a fast one.

Masquara said :

…I’m afraid it confirmed that the Liberals’ advertising for the average detached house dweller about rates tripling is in fact true. And no, not over decades, but over a few years.

Masquara I refer you back to my previous (#20) – this average detached house dweller: 21 years, and very little difference from what was happening with general rates increases anyway. Hard numbers – not rough guesswork.

Diggety Diggety 4:29 am 05 Oct 12

– what do TONK think?

They’ll lego the s*** out of it!

Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 12:37 am 05 Oct 12

ummmm_no said :

Matt_Watts said :

I am curious as to why you can’t vote. I’m sure the Department of Immigration and Citizenship website can help you become a citizen.

(…) the legislation to triple rates over the next several years has been passed.

Given that you work at Immigration, I would expect you’d understand some of the potential pitfalls. Anyway, I wasn’t complaining, the declaration was intended mainly in the spirit of full disclosure.

If you have legislation to point to, give us specifics. Numbers. Your side is claiming it’s “fact”, lay it out.

Cool…

As for Barr, he referred to the Quinlan Review in Hansard. When challenged DIRECTLY about what Labor reforms would mean after 5 years, Barr said, “I refer you to the Quinlan Tax Review” (Hansard Estimate 18 – 6 – 123, page 87. The review (which you can all Google) shows an average tripling of rates.

Did Barr mislead? Or is Labor changing tune as a result of the Libs’ campaign? I’m not sure, yet you can’t claim these are Lib lies, and it’s up to Labor (and maybe Greens) to explain their law. Over to you…!

AsparagusSyndrome AsparagusSyndrome 12:34 am 05 Oct 12

kakosi said :

AsparagusSyndrome said :

Is there an election coming up?

Apparently – or suddenly it’s the fashion to take huge headshot photos of yourself and tie them to trees, put them along roadways and paste them to walls.

I just thought that was a Floriade version of Facebook.

ummmm_no ummmm_no 12:23 am 05 Oct 12

Matt_Watts said :

I am curious as to why you can’t vote. I’m sure the Department of Immigration and Citizenship website can help you become a citizen.

(…) the legislation to triple rates over the next several years has been passed.

Given that you work at Immigration, I would expect you’d understand some of the potential pitfalls. Anyway, I wasn’t complaining, the declaration was intended mainly in the spirit of full disclosure.

If you have legislation to point to, give us specifics. Numbers. Your side is claiming it’s “fact”, lay it out.

kakosi kakosi 12:15 am 05 Oct 12

AsparagusSyndrome said :

Is there an election coming up?

Apparently – or suddenly it’s the fashion to take huge headshot photos of yourself and tie them to trees, put them along roadways and paste them to walls.

Matt_Watts Matt_Watts 11:51 pm 04 Oct 12

ummmm_no said :

Masquara said :

I managed to have a friendly conversation with a Labor candidate about the rates business – half hoping I might be convinced to stay in the Labor fold after all

I call utter bollocks.

I’m ineligible to vote here and come from a politically bankrupt nation, but I’ve lived here near on 15 years now, pay taxes, and have voters in my immediate family.

This morning’s discussion on 666 boiled down to “your rates will triple, but we can’t tell you by when because Labor won’t tell us”. I think that it would have already been (extremely) mathematically challenging for the Libs to get up in this election given the usual split of seats and the role of the Greens, but seriously, I find it difficult to imagine a weaker and more patronising campaign at a time where there seems to be some serious disillusionment to exploit.

Really?

I am curious as to why you can’t vote. I’m sure the Department of Immigration and Citizenship website can help you become a citizen.

But do you really think it is up to the Libs, without the benefit of the public service, to demonstrate how Minister Barr’s own reference to the Quinlan Review is misleading the Legislative Assembly? The ALP are back-peddling, yet the legislation to triple rates over the next several years has been passed.

As I’ve said elsewhere, there are pros and cons to this government’s proposal yet, I believe, in this instance, the negatives outweigh the positives. That’s why the Libs oppose this regressive change.

AsparagusSyndrome AsparagusSyndrome 11:42 pm 04 Oct 12

Is there an election coming up?

ummmm_no ummmm_no 11:07 pm 04 Oct 12

Masquara said :

I managed to have a friendly conversation with a Labor candidate about the rates business – half hoping I might be convinced to stay in the Labor fold after all

I call utter bollocks.

I’m ineligible to vote here and come from a politically bankrupt nation, but I’ve lived here near on 15 years now, pay taxes, and have voters in my immediate family.

This morning’s discussion on 666 boiled down to “your rates will triple, but we can’t tell you by when because Labor won’t tell us”. I think that it would have already been (extremely) mathematically challenging for the Libs to get up in this election given the usual split of seats and the role of the Greens, but seriously, I find it difficult to imagine a weaker and more patronising campaign at a time where there seems to be some serious disillusionment to exploit.

johnboy johnboy 10:57 pm 04 Oct 12

Primal said :

The real issue: how sick I am of the phrase ‘Team Katy’.

I use it when the damn media releases give no clue as to whom the speaker might be.

Primal Primal 10:54 pm 04 Oct 12

The real issue: how sick I am of the phrase ‘Team Katy’.

kakosi kakosi 10:45 pm 04 Oct 12

Masquara said :

I managed to have a friendly conversation with a Labor candidate about the rates business – half hoping I might be convinced to stay in the Labor fold after all – dismayingly, the “it’s not that scary” defence I was given only applies to an average that is heavily weighted by a full third of the apartment properties at the low end of the rates scale (because their share is something like a 15th of a suburban block’s worth!). I was handed some guff that was meant to ease my mind, but I’m afraid it confirmed that the Liberals’ advertising for the average detached house dweller about rates tripling is in fact true. And no, not over decades, but over a few years. For those of us who have reached their “forever house” and will never be liable again for stamp duty, it’s an absolute hip-pocket bummer, and I confirm my treacherous vote change!

Rates will rise whatever colour of politics gets into government. They always have in the past, so I tend to view any party that says they won’t raise rates as out and out liars. At least the Labor candidate didn’t choose to lie to you.

Masquara Masquara 10:26 pm 04 Oct 12

I managed to have a friendly conversation with a Labor candidate about the rates business – half hoping I might be convinced to stay in the Labor fold after all – dismayingly, the “it’s not that scary” defence I was given only applies to an average that is heavily weighted by a full third of the apartment properties at the low end of the rates scale (because their share is something like a 15th of a suburban block’s worth!). I was handed some guff that was meant to ease my mind, but I’m afraid it confirmed that the Liberals’ advertising for the average detached house dweller about rates tripling is in fact true. And no, not over decades, but over a few years. For those of us who have reached their “forever house” and will never be liable again for stamp duty, it’s an absolute hip-pocket bummer, and I confirm my treacherous vote change!

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