16 May 2013

To the oxygen thief who stabbed my car tyre.

16 May 2013 | Tim33

On the 11th of Feb 2013, I was returning to the HACS building in Belconnen to drop off some work. As I was pulling in to the driveway next to Zeffirelli’s that leads to the car-park area; there was a bloke in business attire that stepped right in front of me with what appeared to be headphones on and what appeared to be a APS pass hanging off his belt. I gave him a love tap on the horn to make him aware that I was there and drove on through.

After parking in the Loading Zone I got my work and proceeded into HACS. As I stepped through the glass entry doors I realized I had forgot my mobile phone so I turned back around and there was the same bloke, he was bending down and stabbing my back left tire. I approached him and asked him what he was doing, the coward took one look at me and started running for it. I gave chase but with leather work boots and an arm full of paperwork flying everywhere I just couldn’t catch him. There were several quite surprised witnesses to this event as it occurred in an ACT Government Car-park.

Imagine that, not being able to take a little warning honk and risking my life and the lives of others by vandalizing an ACT Government contractors car. If I hadn’t have seen this bloke puncturing the tyre I may have driven off and lost control around a crowd of people and/or other cars. With the help of some friendly CCTV owners I have a couple of shots of this criminal, it is unlikely that he will be caught for this act but I dare say my employers tyre isn’t the first that he has stabbed.

If the perp’ ever reads this; You had a stabbing implement in your hand and you were STILL too cowardly to stop and face me. If someone honks you and you don’t like it – get the heck over it or confront them to their face. Don’t endanger peoples lives over it. If you are a Commonwealth employee, you have breached the APS Code of Conduct and should be fired for this. The next person you do this to may run faster than me and you won’t be so lucky next time. Coward.

Please see photo lifted from CCTV of him running away past Zeffirelli’s. He could certainly move that is for sure. (sending photo to JB over email)

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Aeek12:04 pm 21 May 13

Also note that driveway is NOT road.

Tenpoints9:51 am 21 May 13

KB1971 said :

Go and read rule 236.

This one? http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas/consol_reg/rr2009104/s236.html
First result on google, tasmania based, found one in SA that was less explicit aka had half of the content but still the main bits.

I believe what you are arguing on is clause (2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.

Which is fair enough, if you think he was unreasonably obstructing. When I think unreasonably obstructing I think of a group of people standing around having a yap in the carpark blocking cars from backing out. When I think unreasonably I think of using yourself as a human barrier because you have some sort of desire to piss the driver off.
I do not think that walking along a footpath (aka not a road) is “unreasonable obstruction”
Unless of course we know that the guy was standing and stepped in front at the last second, which we don’t.

Also note (7) In this rule –

road includes any shoulder of the road, and any median strip, painted island or traffic island, but does not include any other road-related area.

KB19716:28 pm 20 May 13

Tenpoints said :

Streetview of the footpath location:
https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Zefirelli's+belconnen&hl=en&ll=-35.237611,149.068307&spn=0.000658,0.000871&sll=-35.187821,149.122982&sspn=0.000661,0.000871&t=h&hq=Zefirelli's+belconnen&z=21&layer=c&cbll=-35.237611,149.068307&panoid=HAn-KI8J_QEAM0eA_IhoVg&cbp=12,20.39,,0,19.75

While it may be true that the pedestrian stepped out in front of the car without looking, it is unlikely that the OP would not have the opportunity to check for and give way to said pedestrian UNLESS a car was stopped in the no stopping areas (which as Google maps shows, has happened at least once).
As OP has not mentioned any cars blocking his view then it can be assumed that there were not any cars in these spaces and therefore the view was unobstructed.

A second defense might be that the pedestrian was walking extremely fast or sped up to cut in front of the car, Not knowing whether this was the case, I can assume if the pedestrian was walking at such a speed they would be in a hurry and thus not have time to take a detour to slash the OP’s tyre. Of course this proposition is complex as we do not know the state of mind of the pedestrian at the time and whether he is indeed a crazy nutter with violent tendencies or just someone who has been down to shit creek and back with their recent circumstances and used the trigger as an excuse to vent their stress. You said he was walking pretty fast but was it unpredictable?

Of course if a pedestrian were to run in front of you within the space you had to react then there is clearly no driver error involved. You can’t be expected to account for the clown who doesn’t look both ways after stepping onto the roadway while texting on their phone. That said, when you’re leaving the roadway and crossing a pedestrian footpath you do need to be aware of well… pedestrians. They do have right of way.

So if this guy was moving at a constant walking pace and you failed to observe him until he was right in front of you, unless you can tell us that your view was obstructed enough (by an illegally parked vehicle?) to prevent you from seeing him on time, then part of the fault lies in your hands for not taking into account his movement while giving way to him. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think there’s a speed limit for pedestrians on footpaths.

In Russia pedestrians will often deliberately walk out onto crossings without looking in order to collect insurance from the “at-fault” driver who hit them. That plus a few other reasons (police corruption being the root cause) is why every second driver in Russia has a dashcam. In this situation, I get the impression that a guy was walking briskly along the footpath, you came along in a car, didn’t observe him or expect to give way to him, and then tooted him when he exercised his right of passage by continuing to walk on the footpath. Like I said, the only excuse I can see for this would be if he was moving unpredictably (like was he standing on the side of the driveway and as you pulled in he just decided to start crossing) or if your visibility was blocked by illegally parked vehicles.

That said, I do think pedestrians need to be aware of what is around them as in observing potential hazards in the same way as other road users are required to. General observation saves you from a lot of things. I also think this pedestrian was way out of line with his response, is indeed a coward and needs to take ownership of his actions.

So in conclusion, I remain doubtful until more information is given that your horn was justifeid. My thoughts at the moment can be summarised into a description such as: “A pedestrian was walking westbound along the footpath when a car attempted to pull in front of the pedestrian, only observing said pedestrian at the last minute and then proceeded to honk their horn.” As a pedestrian, this sounds to me like an agressive car driver thinking they have right of way on the footpath. The whole tyre slashing thing is an open and shut case as the guy committed a crime and everyone agrees he should be held accountable for that. The real debate is now focused on whether you were justified in your behaviour.

So please, give us more details. Enlighten us.
By the way if anything has changed about that crossing like additional signage or parking changes since the streetview photo then my challenge about visibility may be negated.

Go and read rule 236.

Tenpoints11:05 am 20 May 13

Streetview of the footpath location:
https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=Zefirelli's+belconnen&hl=en&ll=-35.237611,149.068307&spn=0.000658,0.000871&sll=-35.187821,149.122982&sspn=0.000661,0.000871&t=h&hq=Zefirelli's+belconnen&z=21&layer=c&cbll=-35.237611,149.068307&panoid=HAn-KI8J_QEAM0eA_IhoVg&cbp=12,20.39,,0,19.75

While it may be true that the pedestrian stepped out in front of the car without looking, it is unlikely that the OP would not have the opportunity to check for and give way to said pedestrian UNLESS a car was stopped in the no stopping areas (which as Google maps shows, has happened at least once).
As OP has not mentioned any cars blocking his view then it can be assumed that there were not any cars in these spaces and therefore the view was unobstructed.

A second defense might be that the pedestrian was walking extremely fast or sped up to cut in front of the car, Not knowing whether this was the case, I can assume if the pedestrian was walking at such a speed they would be in a hurry and thus not have time to take a detour to slash the OP’s tyre. Of course this proposition is complex as we do not know the state of mind of the pedestrian at the time and whether he is indeed a crazy nutter with violent tendencies or just someone who has been down to shit creek and back with their recent circumstances and used the trigger as an excuse to vent their stress. You said he was walking pretty fast but was it unpredictable?

Of course if a pedestrian were to run in front of you within the space you had to react then there is clearly no driver error involved. You can’t be expected to account for the clown who doesn’t look both ways after stepping onto the roadway while texting on their phone. That said, when you’re leaving the roadway and crossing a pedestrian footpath you do need to be aware of well… pedestrians. They do have right of way.

So if this guy was moving at a constant walking pace and you failed to observe him until he was right in front of you, unless you can tell us that your view was obstructed enough (by an illegally parked vehicle?) to prevent you from seeing him on time, then part of the fault lies in your hands for not taking into account his movement while giving way to him. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think there’s a speed limit for pedestrians on footpaths.

In Russia pedestrians will often deliberately walk out onto crossings without looking in order to collect insurance from the “at-fault” driver who hit them. That plus a few other reasons (police corruption being the root cause) is why every second driver in Russia has a dashcam. In this situation, I get the impression that a guy was walking briskly along the footpath, you came along in a car, didn’t observe him or expect to give way to him, and then tooted him when he exercised his right of passage by continuing to walk on the footpath. Like I said, the only excuse I can see for this would be if he was moving unpredictably (like was he standing on the side of the driveway and as you pulled in he just decided to start crossing) or if your visibility was blocked by illegally parked vehicles.

That said, I do think pedestrians need to be aware of what is around them as in observing potential hazards in the same way as other road users are required to. General observation saves you from a lot of things. I also think this pedestrian was way out of line with his response, is indeed a coward and needs to take ownership of his actions.

So in conclusion, I remain doubtful until more information is given that your horn was justifeid. My thoughts at the moment can be summarised into a description such as: “A pedestrian was walking westbound along the footpath when a car attempted to pull in front of the pedestrian, only observing said pedestrian at the last minute and then proceeded to honk their horn.” As a pedestrian, this sounds to me like an agressive car driver thinking they have right of way on the footpath. The whole tyre slashing thing is an open and shut case as the guy committed a crime and everyone agrees he should be held accountable for that. The real debate is now focused on whether you were justified in your behaviour.

So please, give us more details. Enlighten us.
By the way if anything has changed about that crossing like additional signage or parking changes since the streetview photo then my challenge about visibility may be negated.

KB19717:10 am 20 May 13

Jono said :

Tim33 said :

It is frightening how many people on this thread have encouraged vigilantism by supporting this tosser. So by you’re logic should I commit an act of vigilantism onto him for what he has done? Lucky for him I am not criminal SCUM like he is. Thanks anyway Bus Driver and please thank you friend for offering to submit information.

In a situation where you’re required to be particularly careful and to give way to pedestrians, by your own description you’ve almost run one over (“I nearly hit him”). And you refuse to acknowledge that you’ve done anything wrong.

I’d almost prefer to have an encounter with the guy who let down your tyre – maybe, just maybe he’s feeling remorse about what he did and will change. Your inability to understand the danger of what you did clearly makes you a threat on the road.

Um, he said that the guy stepped off the footpath in front of him? Now I know the road rules say that pedestrians have right of way but in this case he doesn’t especially if he just stepped off the gutter in front of the car with little regard for how fast the car was moving or if Tim had to hit the brakes to take evasive action.

Fair dunkum, you were not even there to see the exact circumstance of the incident so how do you think Tim was at fault? From the picture it looks like Tim was not crossing a footpath where he would be required to give way.

TheBusDriver9:28 pm 19 May 13

Tim33 said :

I will describe him, he was about 5’9, grey hair in a crew cut. Maybe about 50yo, but there are a thousand other people that look just like that in Belconnen. I will recognize him if I see him again that is for sure.

Stand by Bus driver, I will have a chat to the police and ask them what it will achieve by putting a police report in and I will do it if they recommend it.

My mate is not sure, because it was a long time ago, and lots of people run for buses, but this guy ran through the bus interchange, looked like he was about to die from a heart attack, and kept looking behind him through the park. He ran into the ABS at 45 Benjamin Way Belconnen.
It could just be some other guy late for lunch or my friend’s memory muddled, but you have it for what it is worth.

MWF6:11 pm 19 May 13

Jhoe said :

your all b*ching”

Why thanks!

Urban dictionary spells it bitchin or bitchin’, either way, us Canberra people already know we are awesome!

Pork Hunt5:52 pm 19 May 13

Jhoe said :

Ugh i hate canberra people. So glad im not from here. Someone makes a post about a douche not watching where he was going and therefore gets a honk. Most of you are carrying on about him being in the wrong for honking. Even worse your all b*ching about grammar and spelling. Typical of canberra people

I was the original grammar fascist in this thread but I will disappoint you by being from NSW. Further, I was born overseas.
So I guess I’m not a typical Canberran but if you wish, you can still hate me…

GardeningGirl5:06 pm 19 May 13

Well this thread has attracted some interesting comments.
FWIW I agree the pedestrian was a tosser and criminal as well. Better he gets the opportunity to reconsider how he walks around after being honked by a horn than after being conveyed to hospital in an ambulance.

MightyJoe said :

….. Seriously people, if someone taps the horn behind you, a wave or a thumb usually should suffice to apologise.. heck, the amount of times people have done so to me (due to a silly error – hey we’re all human!) i’ll give a sorry wave or a thumb.

Another thing that gets my goat is people that do the wrong thing and then proceed to hurl fingers when you beep the horn.. you were in the wrong… (reminds me of the parking meme the other day)

Its a long time since gentle reminder/civilised acknowledgement was the norm. 🙁

Jhoe4:38 pm 19 May 13

Ugh i hate canberra people. So glad im not from here. Someone makes a post about a douche not watching where he was going and therefore gets a honk. Most of you are carrying on about him being in the wrong for honking. Even worse your all b*ching about grammar and spelling. Typical of canberra people

Tim3311:12 am 19 May 13

Grrrr said :

I’m not going to claim it’s justification for property damage, but you seem unwilling to admit being in the wrong to start off with.

Have you figured out yet that the pedestrian had right of way, and you tooted him because YOU were apparently driving too fast? http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Reports/ARRFeb12.pdf

75 – Giving way when entering a road-related area or adjacent land from a road:
(1) A driver entering a road-related area or adjacent land from a place on a road without traffic lights or a stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line must give way to:
(b) any vehicle or pedestrian on any road-related area that the driver crosses or enters

The claiming the attempt to flatten your tyre being equates to life-threatening behaviour whilst suggesting that you almost running him over is nothing more than “hurt feelings” is rather hypocritical.

You said it right there, ‘it isn’t justification for property damage’ so why bother with the rest of it? It looks like you went to a lot of trouble to get that information. It was all for nothing I am completely aware of the road rules.

TheBusDriver said :

Tim33 said :

TheBusDriver said :

Hi Tim. I am hoping / assuming you reported this to the police? Can you please let us know the police report number so we can pass along information? I assume you’re not planning on any silly revenge and will pursue this the proper way through the courts. Please let us know that police report number so I can pass along some information.

G’day Bus Driver, I definitely am not planning any revenge. It was more the safety aspect that worried me and the fact that this bloke (appeared) to be a Commonwealth public servant. I thought pursuing it with the police would be futile as I didn’t get his identity, so I thought I would at least make people aware with this post.

If you have some relevant information that may lead to a conviction I will definitely put in a police report and put my name to it. I am not afraid of that and I have done it before on another traffic incident that I witnessed. This information that you have, will it actually lead to an identity or arrest?

Oh well you’ll need the police to get the info anyway.
As you will realise, there are a lot of buses and bus drivers in that part of the world. Bus drivers like to gasbag about our day. Imagine my surprise when one gas bagged about an idiot in office attire who ran through the bus interchange back then.
Oh, I just realised the footage at the bus interchange is not kept that long. Why did you wait months to do this story?
Anyway, check Benjamin Offices for your BEAN COUNTER.
If you had a police report number, a better image and a more belivable story we might be able to help you more. But this story comes across as pretty dodgy. Why did you wait from Feb 11th to May 16th to do a peice on this? Why could you describe the guy’s clothing but not his face, height, age or appearance? If you have pictures, why use one that could be any guy in office attire?
My mate recall past cases on this site where people have posted dodgy stories that have proven to be a pack of lies, so he wants a police number before he’ll pass on anything else.

I assure you all this really happened and I was completely honest in my description. I didn’t put a police report in because I thought it was futile because I didn’t know who he was and my boss laughed at the fact that I chased him and then told me to go and simply get the spare replaced at Tuggeranong. So why post the story so late? Because I found the photo again on my computer recently and only just thought of using RA as it is a great sounding board for stuff like this.

I have to establish what it will achieve if I put a police report in, I presume you only take someone to court if you want to sue for damages – I cannot sue for damages because the Ute belongs to my place of employment and they were not fussed about paying for a spare. I could sue for the hour of inconvenience it took to change the tyre but what is the point suing for $50.00ish? I suppose I would simply want the criminal damage on his police record that is all. I wanted to make others aware of what happened as well. It is the principle of the thing that pisses me off.

I will describe him, he was about 5’9, grey hair in a crew cut. Maybe about 50yo, but there are a thousand other people that look just like that in Belconnen. I will recognize him if I see him again that is for sure. Stand by Bus driver, I will have a chat to the police and ask them what it will achieve by putting a police report in and I will do it if they recommend it.

TheBusDriver5:48 pm 18 May 13

Tim33 said :

TheBusDriver said :

Hi Tim. I am hoping / assuming you reported this to the police? Can you please let us know the police report number so we can pass along information? I assume you’re not planning on any silly revenge and will pursue this the proper way through the courts. Please let us know that police report number so I can pass along some information.

G’day Bus Driver, I definitely am not planning any revenge. It was more the safety aspect that worried me and the fact that this bloke (appeared) to be a Commonwealth public servant. I thought pursuing it with the police would be futile as I didn’t get his identity, so I thought I would at least make people aware with this post.

If you have some relevant information that may lead to a conviction I will definitely put in a police report and put my name to it. I am not afraid of that and I have done it before on another traffic incident that I witnessed. This information that you have, will it actually lead to an identity or arrest?

Oh well you’ll need the police to get the info anyway.
As you will realise, there are a lot of buses and bus drivers in that part of the world. Bus drivers like to gasbag about our day. Imagine my surprise when one gas bagged about an idiot in office attire who ran through the bus interchange back then.
Oh, I just realised the footage at the bus interchange is not kept that long. Why did you wait months to do this story?
Anyway, check Benjamin Offices for your BEAN COUNTER.
If you had a police report number, a better image and a more belivable story we might be able to help you more. But this story comes across as pretty dodgy. Why did you wait from Feb 11th to May 16th to do a peice on this? Why could you describe the guy’s clothing but not his face, height, age or appearance? If you have pictures, why use one that could be any guy in office attire?
My mate recall past cases on this site where people have posted dodgy stories that have proven to be a pack of lies, so he wants a police number before he’ll pass on anything else.

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