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Traffic Infringement Notice – can the evidence be changed?

By Grumpy Old Fart - 20 August 2011 75

Recently Mrs GOF received a traffic infringement notice (TIN) for allegedly driving through a stop sign. When I checked the issued ticket and the street on which the offence is alleged to occur I discovered that no stop sign existed. I submitted a request for the withdrawal of the TIN on the grounds that the offence could not have occurred as recorded as there is no stop sign on the street that was named. The letter was submitted and I thought that would be the end of the matter.

A delegate of the Chief Police Officer responded and advised me that the TIN had been withdrawn and lo and behold a new ticket was issued with what he called ‘the correct information’. I thought the correct information was what was issued the first time! (How many versions of events are they allowed)

I would ask the collective of the RiotACT has anyone had a similar experience in terms of a TIN being issued and then withdrawn after a submission and a new TIN issued for the same offence but at a different location? Is it legal for this to be done?

I would have thought that a TIN was a statement of evidence from the Police Officer issuing the notice at the time of the alleged offence so how can the evidence be changed? To me it would seem the same as a Police Officer giving evidence and when the evidence is given and the credibility questioned the facts are changed which to me does not seem right nor I believe would be accepted before a court.

I am also concerned that the actions of changing evidence in relation to the TIN was allowed to occur by a person who is a delegate of the Chief Police Officer as well as the original Police Officer who is now putting forward a different version of events.

I maybe wrong as is often the case or do not understand the processes of the AFP but it would seem that the AFP is allowed to change their evidence which I thought was illegal. Can anyone shed any light on whether I am overreacting or looking at this from the wrong perspective.

I will be taking the matter to the Ombudsman as I think it is very wrong.

What’s Your opinion?


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75 Responses to
Traffic Infringement Notice – can the evidence be changed?
KeenGolfer 7:34 pm 20 Aug 11

A TIN can be withdrawn and a new one issued. It’s perfectly legal and happens from time to time. Sorry but you have no grounds to dispute based on the incorrect info bring on the first infringement. Your argument won’t wash in court as what was done is 100% legal. You can check the legislation to confirm this.

vg 7:14 pm 20 Aug 11

Can the evidence be changed?

Yes

Pay the fine

Next question

dpm 7:14 pm 20 Aug 11

Grumpy Old Fart said :

…It is not an issue about whether she did or did not drive through a stop sign it is about tha apparent ability of a Police Officer to change his evidence and the Delegate of the Chief Police Officer to allow this….
.

I hate to sound like a holier-than-thou twat, but for mine, it IS about whether she went thru a stop sign or not. She knows if she did, the cop knows if she did.
I know personally i’d feel like a bit of an idiot going into court saying: ‘yes, she did it but i’m arguing about the paperwork’…
Where does it end? This is probably the sort of thing that set a presedent for blatant murder evidence in other cases to be made inadmissable because a search warrant wasn’t signed in the right place, or some such BS…
Anyway, end of rant, good luck with the court case. However, you should work out how many hours of your life (work and pleasure time) you spent fighting this and see if it was worth it personally (and financially) at the end. It certainly might be for you, but I don’t think i’d bother (if I knew I was guilty of the issue at hand). Sorry….

Jono 7:09 pm 20 Aug 11

Grumpy Old Fart said :

It is not an issue about whether she did or did not drive through a stop sign it is about tha apparent ability of a Police Officer to change his evidence and the Delegate of the Chief Police Officer to allow this.

What an astonishing sentence. The question of whether the driver was, or wasn’t, obeying the road rules is not an issue when it comes to being fined. But, if a copper makes an administrative error, and later corrects it, then that’s, apparently, a serious issue, and worth going to court about. Wow.

buzz819 6:46 pm 20 Aug 11

Grumpy Old Fart said :

Thank you for your feedback and just some clarification to the points raised.

The new fine is for driving through a stop sign but this time a different intersection has been named time and date are still the same.

It is not an issue about whether she did or did not drive through a stop sign it is about tha apparent ability of a Police Officer to change his evidence and the Delegate of the Chief Police Officer to allow this.

The matter may still be taken before the court and I will of course be questioning the credibility of the evidence given the Police have put forward two versions of events and it is not possible to be at the two mentioned intersections at the same point in time.

Yes I do have a copy of the original ticket which is for proceeding through a stop sign as is the second ticket that was issued.

Go to court, see what the magistrates says.

I think you will find the old Traffic Infringement Notice would have gotten you off the fine, the new one will get you found guilty.

While I understand your outrage at another human being making a typing error, at the same time your wife made a traffic violation, which as it turns out, can get people killed.

The old ticket was withdrawn, a new ticket, with a new reference number was issued, therefore the new ticket will be the one that is in dispute.

If you go to court you will probably find the Constable has written in his statement of facts that he was advised that the ticket contained the wrong information and he subsequently issued one with the correct information.

Give it a whack at court instead of trying for the whole Police can’t do their job properly routine, then when you win or lose you can come and tell us how the case went.

Court costs are only $120 or so, plus a day or four off work, then a solicitor if you want to hire a solicitor – that’s well worth the effort for saving $273 and 3 points, for an offence that was committed. Go for it…

Erg0 6:38 pm 20 Aug 11

So she did drive through a stop sign?

Anna Key 6:34 pm 20 Aug 11

Had a similar experience. Received a TIN for failing to give way to a vehicle on the right. I actually failed to give way to a vehicle the left. I did consider asking for it to be withdrawn, but decided just to pay it anyway, although possibly it would have been chucked out if I took it to court. It is concerning that the police don’t get some basics right and the implications that someone would get off a serious offence on a simple error.

Grumpy Old Fart 6:25 pm 20 Aug 11

Thank you for your feedback and just some clarification to the points raised.

The new fine is for driving through a stop sign but this time a different intersection has been named time and date are still the same.

It is not an issue about whether she did or did not drive through a stop sign it is about tha apparent ability of a Police Officer to change his evidence and the Delegate of the Chief Police Officer to allow this.

The matter may still be taken before the court and I will of course be questioning the credibility of the evidence given the Police have put forward two versions of events and it is not possible to be at the two mentioned intersections at the same point in time.

Yes I do have a copy of the original ticket which is for proceeding through a stop sign as is the second ticket that was issued.

Jono 4:35 pm 20 Aug 11

Surely you use common sense here. Did she commit an offence or not? If she went through a stop intersection without stopping, then just pay the fine and don’t try to get off on a technicality. (Remembering, of course, no stop sign is required for it to be a stop intersection).

If she didn’t, then take it further.

Henry82 4:06 pm 20 Aug 11

Why can’t you take it to court on the basis that they can’t get their facts right? Surely you could argue that the first TIN was misleading, and therefore any further “amendments” by that officer would be inadmissible. I’m not a lawyer, but i’m sure if a statement is found to be incorrect, any future comments by that witness would have almost zero standing. Do you still have a copy of the old fine?

However if there is a photo, a video, or a recording – you’ll probably lose, particularly if the stop sign in visible.

Tooks 3:59 pm 20 Aug 11

If your wife ran a stop sign then pay the fine. If she didn’t run a stop sign, then take it to court.

I maybe wrong as is often the case or do not understand the processes of the AFP but it would seem that the AFP is allowed to change their evidence which I thought was illegal. Can anyone shed any light on whether I am overreacting or looking at this from the wrong perspective.

Yes you are wrong, but if you want some clarification, why not contact someone in ACT police and ask them?

Jerry Atric 3:46 pm 20 Aug 11

Thank you, GOF, for saving the ACT taxpayer a considerable amount of money. It would appear that if you had not had the first notice withdrawn and let the matter go to court, it is most likely that the magistrate would have thrown the matter out to the cost of the AFP. As it is, your wife has been properly fined.

Rawhide Kid Part3 3:38 pm 20 Aug 11

If the “revised” TIN refers to the same intersection I think it plausible for the re issue. Other than that the proof of anything different goes to the person issued with the infringement. (Just my opinion only.)

Morgan 3:34 pm 20 Aug 11

Did she run a stop sign?

BenMac 3:32 pm 20 Aug 11

A delegate of the Chief Police Officer responded and advised me that the TIN had been withdrawn and lo and behold a new ticket was issued with what he called ‘the correct information’. I thought the correct information was what was issued the first time! (How many versions of events are they allowed)

So if the old fine was for driving through a stop sign, what’s the new fine for?

Seems there’s something not being told.

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