25 February 2011

Trolley fines start Wednesday

| johnboy
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shopping trolleys

Chief Minister Stanhope has announced his new shopping trolley laws are kicking off from next Wednesday.

Here’s a list of new things you can get in trouble for:

    — Failure to display a notice about taking a shopping trolley outside of a shopping centre precinct. – 10 penalty units

    — Failure to display identification on your shopping trolley. – 10 penalty units

    Failure to keep a shopping trolley within your shopping centre precinct. (Note: this offence does not apply if the retailer operates and maintains a trolley containment system at its premises or takes reasonable steps to ensure that a trolley is not removed from a shopping centre precinct.) – 60 penalty units

    — Failure to comply with a direction to return a shopping trolley. (Note: there are exemptions where complying with the direction to return a shopping trolley to a shopping precinct would be harsh or unreasonable, for example where a parent would have to leave young children alone in a car. – 10 penalty units

    — Removing, defacing or interfering with a removal notice attached to a shopping trolley. – 5 penalty units

For new players, a penalty unit is $550 for a corporation and $110 for an individual.

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jsm2090 said :

Human nature dictactes we will always favour personal convenience over consideration for others etc, and there’s no way this can be policed.

Pretty much. So those of use who are considerate, and actually do the right thing even if no one is looking will continue to do the right thing. The lazy and entitlement-minded will continue to do whatever they can get away with.

Human nature dictactes we will always favour personal convenience over consideration for others etc, and there’s no way this can be policed. Wheel locks that prevent the trolleys leaving a predetermined radius from the supermarket as seen in Sydney, keep things in check. If you can’t push it past the carpark, you can’t dump it two suburbs away.

The legislation can be found here http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/a/2010-34/current/pdf/2010-34.pdf

A shopping centre precinct is defined as:

shopping centre precinct means—
(a) an area consisting of—
(i) a shopping centre; and
(ii) any car park provided for the use of customers of the
shopping centre; and
(iii) any area, including a road or other public place, between
the shopping centre and the car park; and
(iv) any other area provided for the use of customers of the
shopping centre immediately adjacent to the shopping
centre; or
(b) an area prescribed by regulation.

So unless you’re parking miles away from the shop, it won’t be an issue for those who can’t work out the logistics of car, children, trolley.

wildturkeycanoe7:41 am 28 Feb 11

housebound said :

Don’t shop at Belco mall – try Kippax, Jammo or Kaleen (all cheaper and much easier parking)

Kippax is almost worse than Belco, flat out getting a spot in the afternoons. Lately I’ve been avoiding it and the long queues at the self serve register [always a third of machines busted].As for being cheaper, food is the same price and it doesn’t take over 3 hours to do the groceries.
Great point about being illegal to leave the kids in the car. Can’t look where you’re going and keep an eye on the car at the same time and don’t say kidnapping doesn’t or couldn’t happen.
What if it’s raining? Do you leave the kids in the trolley, then carry one under each arm along with the umbrella, handbag and then try to dig out the keys to unlock the doors?

Why are we arguing these points? The laws aren’t for leaving trolleys in the car park but for taking them away from the shopping precinct. Nothing to worry about, the trolleyologists will still have a job, you won’t get fined for leaving it next to your parking spot.

OK, let’s get a bt of sense into this debate. Don’t you all know that it is illegal to leave your kids in the car at any time? So what do you do?
– Don’t shop at Belco mall – try Kippax, Jammo or Kaleen (all cheaper and much easier parking)
– wherever you shop, leave your kids in the trolleywhile unpacking it, return trolley, remove kids, return to the car with kids – this is hard with a baby and a toddler OR
– do your shopping at night when there are fewer people to compete for good parking, and probably no gestapo to ping you for daring to use a trolley.

Ryan said :

BlackIce said :

BUT if I’m knocked down in the carpark and unconcious and nobody knows I’ve got young children in the car, how do you think the children would fare then?

And don’t forget about meteors. They could knock you out too. Just because they have to come a little further doesn’t mean it can’t happen..

This is simply irresponsible fearmongering. Any Rioter who has studied a spot of astrophysics (as most of us have) would know that the probability of a meteor surviving intact through the heating caused by atmospheric entry is vanishingly small. So don’t panic people. Your sojourns in the carparks of Canberra are pretty much guaranteed to be meteor free.

BlackIce said :

BUT if I’m knocked down in the carpark and unconcious and nobody knows I’ve got young children in the car, how do you think the children would fare then?

And imagine if you slipped on a banana peel and bopped your forehead? Or maybe a magpie would fly into the back of your head. BAM! Unconscious.

And don’t forget about meteors. They could knock you out too. Just because they have to come a little further doesn’t mean it can’t happen..

Grail said :

JustThinking said :

Why on earth strap them in the car out of the sun or out of the way of dodgey drivers …

Ah, another of those “please steal my car and kidnap my children” types?

Anti theft lock which hooks around steering wheel then clutch. Key for which is on my person, not dangling from the keys in the ignition.

And in response to #28 – no my children won’t combust in 30 seconds bd84 (although considering sometimes you can be parked several aisles away and at opposite end from the nearest trolley return, 30 seconds would be a bit optimistic). BUT if I’m knocked down in the carpark and unconcious and nobody knows I’ve got young children in the car, how do you think the children would fare then?

There is no excuse for not returning your trolley, this includes having a child with you. Your child is not going to magically combust while locked in the car for the 30 seconds it takes to walk the 10 metres to the trolley bay.

I really do hope the rangers set up shop in the city and write fines for all those lazy students who think it is beyond them to carry the 4 bags of shopping in their 2 hands instead of wheeling a trolley and dumping it wherever they wish.

screaming banshee11:39 am 26 Feb 11

wildturkeycanoe said :

What kind of utopia does screaming banshee live in?

Kaleen, bitches

Felix the Cat said :

Another excuse for the supermarkets to overcharge us.

Ahh see this is the trick, you see in the interest of competition all supermarkets except Coles and Wollies are exempt. So yes will see prices in these two establishments rise, thus making it relatively cheaper to shop at the (so called local) supermarkets who contribute a bit of dosh to the local Labor party.

JustThinking said :

Why on earth strap them in the car out of the sun or out of the way of dodgey drivers …

Ah, another of those “please steal my car and kidnap my children” types?

We should also fine car manufacturers if one of their models is stolen and used for ram-raiding, as well as knife manufacturers whenever one of their knives is used in a crime.

Shopping trolleys should have the plastic removed from the metal handles, a marked perimeter, and a high voltage shock pass through the handle when it leaves that perimeter.

Does anyone really think that the shifty, blow-in bogans who use the trolleys to take their slabs of Bundy & Coke back to their single-mother girlfriend’s place (which was allocated to her on subsidised rent because she has two kids by two different blokes, neither of which is the current one) will give a rat’s arse about these laws? There’ll be no enforcement.

wildturkeycanoe10:31 pm 25 Feb 11

Blackice – I’m with ya. What kind of utopia does screaming banshee live in?
1. Finding a spot near trolley bays. Well, try finding a spot – period – on a busy day at Belco Mall.
2. Finding some ground where the trolley doesn’t roll across the road [great design having inclining ground in a shopping center carpark and no handbrake to stop the trolley].
3. Yeah, make the shopping trip more fun by taking your kids to the trolley bay and then having to cart them all the way back after you’ve just lifted up to 50kg of groceries into the boot. Like anyone needs all that extra exercise!
4. “Screaming banshee” – how does a 3 year old unpack groceries from the trolley. Must have big genes in your family. The only things they help to move that can’t be damaged by dropping is packets of chips, cereal and maybe toilet paper. But hey, you can throw that in the boot yourself without looking out for distracted children who drop said toilet paper that just ruptured from the flimsy packaging, and now dash down across the steeply inclining roadway whilst another irritated shopper reverses out from behind you unaware of the 2 foot high, who does not wear a reflective vest legislated as mandatory for the staff that pick up the trolley you could have left for them to return. How can you supervise this activity without fear of peril to the youngsters?
Ding! It just occurred to me. More fines, less wages…..it’s win win for shopping centers and the government.

screaming banshee10:14 pm 25 Feb 11

Spykler said :

‘Takes reasonable steps to ensure a trolley is not removed’- such as?

I’d suggest the use of a system whereby you deposit a coin to retrieve a trolley is what they had in mind.

I just don’t get this nanny state argument, would you prefer people could do whatever speed they felt like all the time with no repercussions, that people should be free to litter and leave trolleys wherever they feel like. Face it, laws are written for the lowest common denominator, if the community as a whole didn’t speed/litter/dump trolleys then we wouldn’t need these laws.

Its not a nanny state, its a nanny community always expecting someone else to wipe your arse.

JustThinking said :

Yeah, after all if you only shop once a week the extra 15minutes in the sun and heat won’t bother the kids at all.

So what you’re saying is they should either spend 15 minutes in the heat of a car that has just prior been roasting in the sun, or that you sit them in their with the aircon running sucking down the fumes that are pouring out the exhaust and straight in through the back??…wont somebody think of the children!!

As for the danger issue, have you thought of pushing the trolley down between the cars, or heaven forbid reversing into the spot so you can load between the cars. The next logical ‘grasping at straws to blame someone else for my laziness’ argument will be that the other cars are parked to close.

I presume by the comments here that people only seem to do their grocery shopping at Westfield on a Saturday morning during the heat of summer. I’m also curious to know how Blackice manages to load a kid into the car while stopping the trolley rolling away but stopping the trolley from rolling away while standing at the trolley is infinitely more difficult. And how does it take anyone 15 minutes to unload a trolley, even if that includes walking it back?

KaptnKaos,

The laws are about making those responsible for the blight of dumped trolleys financially accountable for their actions, because up until know clearly ethics, morals and common sense have proven insufficient. And I’m not sure you’d be happy either if the govt only ever tackled one issue at a time until that was 100% solved and then moved on, nothing would ever get done so stop your whinging.

screaming banshee said :

BlackIce said :

verbal diarrhea

Ok, for a start my kids are 1 & 3 and its rather simple to sit the 1 year old in the trolley while the 3 year old helps unload….make it a game and involve the kid rather than shoving them in a restraint at every possible opportunity. Give them a fun trolley ride back, and if the 1 year old isn’t walking yet then carry or give them a piggyback ride while the 3 year old holds your hand.

If you’ve got discipline issues with your kids that doesn’t mean society should have to put up with your left-behind trolleys.

Make it even easier for yourself, park near a trolley bay.

Yes, in an ideal situationI try to park near the trolley bays or in the parents with prams parking (when I go to shops that have such a thing). But often 3/4 of the parents with prams parking is taken by people without carseats in their cars, and the parking lots are so full you park where you can.

Sitting them in the sun, in the trolley, while I’m trying to unpack the groceries and stop the trolley rolling away down the slope and at the same time as keeping an eye out for lunatic drivers isn’t all that fun a game for any of us.

And my three year old is reasonably well behaved when out, but I’m also aware that even the best behaved young child can do something unexpected, so spending extra time walking in busy carparks with no pedestrian routes between the aisles is something I try to avoid.

Trad_and_Anon8:37 pm 25 Feb 11

Security cameras at the tip, shopping trolley police… where will it end? Cameras in your kitchen and big brother telling what to eat and how much? This is worse than a nanny state….I bet this latest bit of oppression was inspired by the Greens.

JustThinking7:04 pm 25 Feb 11

Deckard said :

Nanny State!!

NOOOOO,
With a need for child suicide lines and all the issues with mental health,,,,let alone health,,,,or aged care,,,,war pensions, disability etc…I THINK THIS TROLLEY ISSUE should be taken seriously…..
Return your trolleys ppl…..
It wuill surely save,,,,,ummm,,,,Coles and Woollies making another 40 billion dollars each year,,,,,

Failure to keep a shopping trolley within your shopping centre precinct. (Note: this offence does not apply if the retailer operates and maintains a trolley containment system at its premises or takes reasonable steps to ensure that a trolley is not removed from a shopping centre precinct.) – 60 penalty units

‘Takes reasonable steps to ensure a trolley is not removed’- such as?

Nanny State!!

JustThinking5:29 pm 25 Feb 11

screaming banshee said :

BlackIce said :

verbal diarrhea

Ok, for a start my kids are 1 & 3 and its rather simple to sit the 1 year old in the trolley while the 3 year old helps unload….make it a game and involve the kid rather than shoving them in a restraint at every possible opportunity. Give them a fun trolley ride back, and if the 1 year old isn’t walking yet then carry or give them a piggyback ride while the 3 year old holds your hand.

If you’ve got discipline issues with your kids that doesn’t mean society should have to put up with your left-behind trolleys.

Make it even easier for yourself, park near a trolley bay.

Yeah, after all if you only shop once a week the extra 15minutes in the sun and heat won’t bother the kids at all.
Why on earth strap them in the car out of the sun or out of the way of dodgey drivers trying to pass each other beside you. No child in a trolley or near a parked car has EVER been hit in a carpark before!!
While you are at it, make sure they don’t have sunscreen or a hat on, because those guys who push the trolleys back to the shop are going to need a new job, so maybe a few can become Dr’s.

screaming banshee3:53 pm 25 Feb 11

BlackIce said :

verbal diarrhea

Ok, for a start my kids are 1 & 3 and its rather simple to sit the 1 year old in the trolley while the 3 year old helps unload….make it a game and involve the kid rather than shoving them in a restraint at every possible opportunity. Give them a fun trolley ride back, and if the 1 year old isn’t walking yet then carry or give them a piggyback ride while the 3 year old holds your hand.

If you’ve got discipline issues with your kids that doesn’t mean society should have to put up with your left-behind trolleys.

Make it even easier for yourself, park near a trolley bay.

georgesgenitals said :

I remember many years ago as a 17 year old easing my car up to a trolley in the local supermarket carpark, then slowly gathering speed until approaching a traffic island, then slamming on the brakes while the trolley continued forward at about 60km/h.

On striking the traffic island at that speed, the trolley managed a triple half pike somersault.

I scored it 8.5 out of 10.

if you’d managed a twist as well, mebbe a 9.4?

and if the owners have failed to display notice, does that abbrogate someone taking it out of the precinct? and who will be responsibile for delineating ‘the shopping centre precinct’?

Felix the Cat2:51 pm 25 Feb 11

Another excuse for the supermarkets to overcharge us.

georgesgenitals1:30 pm 25 Feb 11

I remember many years ago as a 17 year old easing my car up to a trolley in the local supermarket carpark, then slowly gathering speed until approaching a traffic island, then slamming on the brakes while the trolley continued forward at about 60km/h.

On striking the traffic island at that speed, the trolley managed a triple half pike somersault.

I scored it 8.5 out of 10.

FFS chiefly what’s next???

Shopping trolley abuse is soooo much more important than dovoting time and money to the bus system, the health system or the education system in the ACT, good to see you have your priorities in order cheifly.

Captain RAAF1:00 pm 25 Feb 11

I would like to be a member of the trolley po-po.

Where do I sign?

I look forward to souping up my trolley for low speed pursuits, grease all the bearings, run larger diameter wheels, cut half the cage out for weight saving and above all, practicing the pit manouever to get these renegade trolleys off our streets!

Perhaps the uni students, who should have a basic understanding of maths by the time they reach uni, could work out that if there is a group around the trolley and a equal or lesser number of bags in the trolley that they could carry the bags. Or if they are up to more complicated maths could realise that they have 2 hands and could carry 2 bags. Perhaps if there were a penalty for uni students taking the trolley that would mean less beer money, so less drinking, more time for study and an increase in maths ability. Problem solved!

screaming banshee said :

– Failure to comply with a direction to return a shopping trolley. (Note: there are exemptions where complying with the direction to return a shopping trolley to a shopping precinct would be harsh or unreasonable, for example where a parent would have to leave young children alone in a car. – 10 penalty units

Presumably said parent would have arrived at shopping centre with children, obtained trolley with children, shopped with children and walked trolley to car with children.

Are we expected to believe they might suddenly be stricken with some sort of disability that they are unable to return empty trolley with children in tow also?

I often grab a trolley from right next to where I park. If they’re not nearby then it’s a real struggle to carry a one year old & shopping bags while also trying to keep hold of a three year old in a carpark until we can get to a trolley.

So on returning to the car with a trolley full of groceries, first I would have to secure both children in their carseats, then unpack the trolley, then get both kids out again put them in the trolley to return it, then struggle back across the carpark with the kids and strap them back in their seats again.

So no, not a disability, but a whole lot of to and fro-ing through carparks that usually have no pedestrian walkways with two little kids in tow.

screaming banshee said :

– Failure to comply with a direction to return a shopping trolley. (Note: there are exemptions where complying with the direction to return a shopping trolley to a shopping precinct would be harsh or unreasonable, for example where a parent would have to leave young children alone in a car. – 10 penalty units

Presumably said parent would have arrived at shopping centre with children, obtained trolley with children, shopped with children and walked trolley to car with children.

Are we expected to believe they might suddenly be stricken with some sort of disability that they are unable to return empty trolley with children in tow also?

You might notice that in the picture the frail and disabled appear to have been leaving trolleys next to the taxi rank after their shop.

So how do all those Uni students without cars get their groceries back from Supabarn?

Hmmm (shifty mind clicks into gear), so there might be a market for re-birthed trolley’s?

But seriously, how will they enforce it? A grey jacketed gestapo based on Sydney’s transit guards (wont call the police)?

screaming banshee11:44 am 25 Feb 11

– Failure to comply with a direction to return a shopping trolley. (Note: there are exemptions where complying with the direction to return a shopping trolley to a shopping precinct would be harsh or unreasonable, for example where a parent would have to leave young children alone in a car. – 10 penalty units

Presumably said parent would have arrived at shopping centre with children, obtained trolley with children, shopped with children and walked trolley to car with children.

Are we expected to believe they might suddenly be stricken with some sort of disability that they are unable to return empty trolley with children in tow also?

Awesome.
Will the Trolley Police get around in a trolley pushed by a drunken mate, flashing lights and all?

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