9 December 2005

What to expect from the smoking ban - The View From Fort Collins, Colorado

| johnboy
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In our most recent podcast we noted that we’d had a postcard from Tom, a listener in Fort Collins Colorado. KandyA noted that Fort Collins is a global leader in banning smoking in public places and we asked Tom to report on how this was working out for them.

With admirable speed Tom has replied, and I thought I’d post it for the general readership:

Hi folks,

You asked for information about Fort Collins anti-smoking laws, and so here goes. FYI, I’m a non-smoker but I hang out with a lot of smokers (and I can get pretty talkative, so this might be a long email). Hell, I was at a bar with my brother the smoker just last night. I’ts all sorts of timely.

Basically, about two years ago they made the rules so that smoking was outlawed in pretty much every public building, with some weird exceptions (the bars of bowling alleys, for instance).

Here’s the web page with details on the law:

http://www.ci.fort-collins.co.us/smoking/faq-business.php

Note that the ban is just in Fort Collins. Outside of city limits smoking is still allowed in restaraunts and bars, depending on the owners’ rules.

If Canberra is talking about such a ban, you may find that a lot of businesses are saying that a ban will hurt their bottom line. They’ll lose smoking customers, etc. In our case, it was said that a smoking ban would cause major customer loss to businesses outside of city limits.

However, if Canberra’s experience is the same as Fort Collins, that’s not the case. I read in a local newspaper (can’t find a link, sorry) that patronage of bars, restaraunts, music venues, etc, is actually rather significantly up. The ban may have driven some smokers outside the city, but their numbers were more than made up by the increased draw of other customers.

Smokers aren’t out of luck, though, because they can simply go outside and smoke — as long as they’re 20 feet from the front door or a ventilation system. Many bars have taken to drawing a line that indicates where smokers can stand.

What my smoking friends have told me about the ban and its effects on them is:

– sucks ass in the cold. Last night it was nearly -10F here (a balmy -23C), and that doesn’t count the windchill..

– when the weather is nicer, it’s actually not all that bad to be in a group of smokers. You always know where to go to bum a smoke, and you meet a lot of people you’d never associate with otherwise.

The biggest thing I’ve noticed since the ban is that you can go to a show or out to a bar and when you get home your clothes don’t smell like cigarette smoke. This is a Really Nice Thing. I’m sure you all go to music events at small venues and know what I’m talking about. Even my smoking friends like this.

My brother and I were in Washington DC a few months ago, and public smoking in bars and at concerts is something that struck us both as odd at first. After just over a year we were already totally accustomed to smoke-free places. Once the shock wore off, my brother lit up (“Look, I’m smoking inside!”). Later he admitted that he now preferred Fort Collins’ way of doing things, primarily because of the smoky-smelling clothes issue.

So that’s that. Net result is that smokers got used to it fast and see some benefits, it’s great for non-smokers (my girlfriend has
asthma and she used to hate going to bars), and businesses haven’t been hurt.

Please feel free to ask any questions. If I can’t answer it, I’m sure I can find someone who can.

Tom

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“Last night it was nearly -10F here (a balmy-23C)”
and people here complain about the prospect of stepping outside for a smoke!

HAHA JB, he could try putting a pipe from his car exhaust to the window and taping it shut, that’s an enclosed space.

Remember though, there’s no beating a victimised mentality, since their failsafe response is “you’re victimising me” when they finally run out of relevant information.

The simple truth is that the law recognises the health implications of passive smoke, and there’s no way of getting around that, no matter how hard you whinge.

Umm, bonfire?

try spending some time in an eclosed space with a running car exhaust and let us know how you get on?

Personally I wish this had been addressed as an air quality issue rather than a behavioural one.

(ie if someone can find a way to have people smoking AND keep the air clean then no-problemo.)

as it is the pseudo-open spaces we’re going to see springing up are going to be the worst of both worlds.

Puggy Pearson9:02 pm 12 Dec 05

Come and throw some of your passive smoke my way Bonfire. If someone wants to work someowhere where they won’t die because of the stupidity of others then they can as well.

Amazing what arguments smokers come up with to justify their filthy addiction

yes thumper – its all about CHOICE.

with the availability of jobs, if someone doesnt want to work in a smoky pub, they dont have to.

Indi, you are quite correct regarding passive smoke. That’s the reason why it’s becoming illegal to infect somebody else with your lung candy. Self inflicted – that’s all ok.

Anybody who has a problem with that seems to quite effectively have their argument cut out from under their feet as they get pushed closer and closer to the city limits, just like unwanted hobo’s, and Rambo.

My suggestion; live with it, or fight back with your trusty knife and some clothes made from some cut up hessian. Either way, the people with the guns are gonna force you out of the non-smoking territory.

i believe that if i choose to place myself in an environment where smoking is an accepted part of that culture, then i have responsibility for my own actions. if i dont like that culture then i shouldnt try and get that culture changed to suit my social engineering moralistic agenda.

i should open my own venue and have whatever policy i like, so on moralising monday we can sit around plaiting our underarm hair before chowing down on tofu curry (non GM soybeans only). but dont light up man.

“unfortunate enough to work” the poor things. they can always work at wendys squirting out sugar laden softserve if they dont like smoke. can i sue them in 40 years when i die of something related to imbibing softserve icecream for 40 years ?

im yet to see exhaustive evidence relating to passive smoking. its all funded by anti-smoking bodies which makes it very suspect.

So you do not believe that those unfortunate enough to work – lets say in the hospitality industry – in an environment where ‘passive smoke’ exists, have ended up with lung cancer and have it proven through the legal system that their condition was a result of passive smoking in the work environment?

passive smoking is about as dangerous as standing around a bbq and going home smelling like a steak.

social engineering pseudo science.

…and this means that passive smoking is good for you?

check the listing of harmful elements found in the cigarettes and the case will present itself as clear in relation to harmful effects – but fair call, you may as well suck on the tailpipe of a car

yeah i can see how making your customers go outside like lepers is a good thing. its even better when its snowing.

these laws are not related to health, they are morals driven.

smoking bad. must punish.

there is no evidence that ‘passive smoking’ injures people in any way. peopel suck in more car exhaust than ciggarette smoke.

Have to say, I’d spend a lot more time at the Phoenix if it was smokefree. (Um, maybe that’s a good thing then 🙂

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