What would a Liberal Government look like in the ACT?

ALP may lose a few votes in territory election in Weston Creek due to the lack of planned infrastructure for Molonglo and expected congestion around Cooleman Ct and in traffic. Caught Simon Corbell on Stateline the other week evading questions about ‘lessons learned from Gunghalin’ being repeated in new sub-division of Molonglo with a mealy reply along lines of ‘governments always learn from projects’. Evidently not this time. One road in/out just doesn’t cut it when planning for major uban projects.

Honestly, they all suck. I’ve been very disappointed with Labor and Greens, who usually take my vote. Liberal would probably not manage to do any better. I have no idea who to vote for, I wish we had a new party!

p1 said :

But you can use it as a paper plane within the polling place. In fact, you can cast a valid vote, then fold that into a plane…

Only if you “without delay…fold the ballot paper so as to conceal the vote and put it in a ballot box at the polling place”

and don’t forget to make the noise as it crashes into the box.

davo101 said :

johnboy said :

After that you can make a paper aeroplane out of it if you’re so inclined.

-1
Please don’t. You’re not allowed to remove the ballet paper from the polling station.

But you can use it as a paper plane within the polling place. In fact, you can cast a valid vote, then fold that into a plane…

shirty_bear said :

Duffbowl said :

Face facts: none of the three sets of passengers of the red, blue or green little buses are capable of doing much else than licking the windows

Splendidly put.
Fact remains that the strongest thing in favour of Labor (both locally and federally) is the dreadfulness of the Libs.

bitzermaloney said :

Better still… ballot papers should have a ‘None of the Above” option. If “None of the Above” gets the requried number of votes to take a seat, then that seat remains empty until the next election. At the very least is would eliminate polititians being voted on on the the popularity of another in their party.

Alternately, voting should be made voluntary giving the voter the democratic right to abstain (either through protest or ignorance).

“None of the Above” is a terrific idea.
Non-compulsory voting is a shockingly bad idea; it gives the vocal minority a leg-up. Compelling the silent/lazy majority to have their say is crucially important to retaining balance. And you can still go informal if you must.

There is nothing in favour of Labor federally. No opposition would do worse than the federal government are currently doing.

Locally, I agree with you.

Duffbowl said :

Face facts: none of the three sets of passengers of the red, blue or green little buses are capable of doing much else than licking the windows

Splendidly put.
Fact remains that the strongest thing in favour of Labor (both locally and federally) is the dreadfulness of the Libs.

bitzermaloney said :

Better still… ballot papers should have a ‘None of the Above” option. If “None of the Above” gets the requried number of votes to take a seat, then that seat remains empty until the next election. At the very least is would eliminate polititians being voted on on the the popularity of another in their party.

Alternately, voting should be made voluntary giving the voter the democratic right to abstain (either through protest or ignorance).

“None of the Above” is a terrific idea.
Non-compulsory voting is a shockingly bad idea; it gives the vocal minority a leg-up. Compelling the silent/lazy majority to have their say is crucially important to retaining balance. And you can still go informal if you must.

SnapperJack said :

nobody said :

SnapperJack said :

Now that climate change has been exposed as an expensive con

“We simply must do everything we can in our power to slow down global warming before it is too late… The science is clear. The global warming debate is over.”
Arnold Schwarzenegger, bill signing ceremony for California’s strict anti-emissions law, September 26, 2006.

“Winning the Mr Universe was wonderful! It is like cumming!”
Arnold Schwarzenegger between puffs on a joint, Pumping Iron, 1975.

Yes, Arny is an amazing larger than life character. But seriously, your comment on Climate Change is a decade out of date. If you have a genuine interest, have a look at these figures from NASA.
http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/

johnboy said :

You have the right to abstain. You’re just required to attend the polling place and take your ballot.

+1

johnboy said :

After that you can make a paper aeroplane out of it if you’re so inclined.

-1
Please don’t. You’re not allowed to remove the ballet paper from the polling station. Just strike across the paper to indicate it’s spoiled, fold it neatly, place it in the ballet box, and move on with the rest of your day. There is no need to annoy the poll workers; they didn’t legislate compulsory attendance to elections.

Duffbowl said :

Ahhh, slings and arrows….

Face facts: none of the three sets of passengers of the red, blue or green little buses are capable of doing much else than licking the windows. It’s a choice of dumb, dumber and dumbest, with the only differentiation being the ideology of the party supporter.

I have a dream that, one day, we will have politicians that are competent, accountable, and worthy of a vote. Until then, it’s a matter of choosing the least bad. Donkey anyone?

Agree in the most part, but not the solution. Donkey vote is numbering 1, 2, 3, etc. down the form and rewards those who happen to be listed first on the ballot paper. Numbering ALL candidate the same number (say “9”) which results in an invalid vote is a much better protest vote.

Better still… ballot papers should have a ‘None of the Above” option. If “None of the Above” gets the requried number of votes to take a seat, then that seat remains empty until the next election. At the very least is would eliminate polititians being voted on on the the popularity of another in their party.

Alternately, voting should be made voluntary giving the voter the democratic right to abstain (either through protest or ignorance).

If the Carnell grubbymint is anything to go by, more Left than Labor, though with some outsoutrcing tendancies (and roadside art).

Ahhh, slings and arrows….

Face facts: none of the three sets of passengers of the red, blue or green little buses are capable of doing much else than licking the windows. It’s a choice of dumb, dumber and dumbest, with the only differentiation being the ideology of the party supporter.

I have a dream that, one day, we will have politicians that are competent, accountable, and worthy of a vote. Until then, it’s a matter of choosing the least bad. Donkey anyone?

nobody said :

SnapperJack said :

Now that climate change has been exposed as an expensive con

“We simply must do everything we can in our power to slow down global warming before it is too late… The science is clear. The global warming debate is over.”
Arnold Schwarzenegger, bill signing ceremony for California’s strict anti-emissions law, September 26, 2006.

“Winning the Mr Universe was wonderful! It is like cumming!”
Arnold Schwarzenegger between puffs on a joint, Pumping Iron, 1975.

OpenYourMind said :

The big question is, has it been long enough for people to forget Kate Carnell?

I thought Kate Carnell would be the worst chief minister I would ever see. After Stanhope and Gallagher I’m not so sure.

The big question is, has it been long enough for people to forget Kate Carnell?

Yeah gee great – woo hoo – Labor is on the nose and all that – time for a change, blah, blah blah. Actually, some of us still remember the disaster that was Canberra under a Liberal Government. Hey! Let’s build a footsal slab where everyone will use it for a car park! Gee that was a great idea! Why is no-one using it? Hey let’s spend millions of dollars on an upgrade for Bruce Stadium that will blow out to the max and attract no private sector funding at all! Hey the grass is dying because we got the wrong type – OK, well we’ll just paint it green then. Why are we are laughing stock? I’ve got a great idea! Let’s explode the hospital and make it a public spectacle and invite everyone down to watch and put the dodgy contractors under so much pressure they rush the job and kill someone. And why don’t we just throw away the last bastion of resistance to a complete conservative takeover of Australia that will send us back to the 50s while the earth continues to warm and our children and grandchildren suffer. You don’t see Katy Gallagher crashing her car after a visit to a winery and crossing the border before the cops show up. But by all means – if people hark back to the ‘good old days’ days then go right ahead.

milkman said :

The only meaningful difference if the Libs get in (led by Zed) will be relaxing of planning requirements. Zed is, after all, part of a large Croatian family of builders and developers.

I don’t like Labor, especially the local mob, but the local Libs seem woefully inadequate for the task.

At this point I’d actually prefer a pro-developer government to a pro landlord, pro NIMBY, pro scarcity government.

Bring on the bulldozers, may the new apartment blocks climb high above the leafy streets of the inner north.

The only meaningful difference if the Libs get in (led by Zed) will be relaxing of planning requirements. Zed is, after all, part of a large Croatian family of builders and developers.

I don’t like Labor, especially the local mob, but the local Libs seem woefully inadequate for the task.

This seems like counting numbers in a vacuum of information. You really need a poll to know anything about prospective seats.

As for the stuff about the public service, they are chartered to do the government’s bidding. Might be a bit of an overstretch to suggest that it needs to be gutted and replenished with a new set of stooges. Its fairly a-political below the highest ranks.

They would look like a gang social traditional, economic un-regulating, environmental lenients out of their depth and lacking experience, who will get the policy balance between our society, our economy, and our environment into an unbalanced mess.

SnapperJack said :

Now that climate change has been exposed as an expensive con

“We simply must do everything we can in our power to slow down global warming before it is too late… The science is clear. The global warming debate is over.”
Arnold Schwarzenegger, bill signing ceremony for California’s strict anti-emissions law, September 26, 2006.

“There’s a better scientific consensus on this than on any issue I know — except maybe Newton’s second law of dynamics,”
D. James Baker, administrator of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

“At its core, global climate change is not about economic theory or political platforms, nor about partisan advantage or interest group pressures. It is about the future of God’s creation and the one human family. It is about protecting both `the human environment’ and the natural environment.”
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops statement

Canberra voters are traditionally centre-left leaning and disaffected Labor voters are highly unlikely to vote Liberal. Since Labor dispensed with any pretence of being a party of the left a long time ago, that leaves only the Greens and perhaps some independents or other minor parties. I can see the Green and independent votes increasing.

Beau Locks said :

Why can’t the Libs put on a few interesting people and also let them be themselves and allow the community to get to know them?

Why can’t more Canberrans show more interest in how they’re governed? Maybe then we’d start to get higher quality candidates?

Let’s just hope The Greens get totally obliterated and lose all their seats. 2008 was a one-off during the euphoria of Kevin07 winning, the Kyoto protocol being signed and warm and fuzzy talk about “action on climate change” and introducing an ETS.

Now that climate change has been exposed as an expensive con and the carbon tax will start pushing up the cost of living, it is hoped that the ex-Greens voters will migrate back to the major parties and that the ACT election marks the beginning of the end with The Greens going the way of the Australian Democrats. Sooner rather than later.

HiddenDragon said :

Some, with a more sinuous twist of imagination, might even speculate that a federal Coalition government, particularly if it has a sympathetic Senate, may be sufficently provoked by the continued existence of a Territory Labor government (even one led by the amiable Ms G.) as to perform some interesting surgery on the ACT Self Government Act.

[sigh] what a wonderful thought…
…the problem is, even if the ACT was the only Labor stronghold in OZ, abolishing self-govt will still cost the Libs several positions: are they willing to pay that cost? If they could sell this as Canberra bashing in the states and pro-Canberra in the ACT, it might be worth their while.

Notwithstanding the comments about voters who voted Green last time expecting a unicorn for every family and are now sorely disappointed, surely the two Molonglo Greens will have built up something of a personal vote this time – Shane Rattenbury in particular. One of the perks of being Speaker is regularly getting your mug on the TV news, after all. I’d expect this to buffer them sufficiently that they maintain two seats in Molonglo.

To take the question literally, a lot of them would look like the type of first year law student who tries to engage you in discussions about exam results and which school you went to.

I’m wondering how many votes will be based on dis/like of the Federal parties.

P.S. Some graphs would be great in this article JB!

What would it look like? Hmmm…

I don’t think anyone can say until it happens. I’m more scared by the thought of another 4 years of the unparalleled incompetence shown by the current government. I don’t think it can get much worse.

chewy14 said :

Because a lot of Greens voters at the last election only did so because choosing between Labor and Liberal in this town is akin to the South Park episode of Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich.

Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.

Grail said :

Why would people who voted Green last election not vote Green next election? What do Labor or Liberal parties offer the Green voter?

Because a lot of Greens voters at the last election only did so because choosing between Labor and Liberal in this town is akin to the South Park episode of Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich.

A lot of those people are now realising that the third choice of Giant Douche Sandwich isn’t any better.

After what seems like a rather long stretch of Labor government, there must be some sort of It’s Time factor at work, but for many people, I would guess that the response would be “time for what?” – Madam Cholet’s pithy observations are most pertinent here.

I would be very interested in a party, or plausible independent candidates, who could persuade me that they have a clear, sharp focus on the delivery of essential, cost-effective services – no stunts, frolics, hobby horses or taxpayer-funded pandering. Do what truly needs to be done, let the great majority of decent, sensible, intelligent Canberrans live their lives without unnecessary interference and regulation, and lend a hand to those who really need it.

A major factor surely at play in the next Territory election campaign will be the strong likelihood of a federal Coalition government taking power some time in the next year, or so. Many will no doubt feel that sticking with ACT Labor will provide some insurance and protection. Others will hope that a Territory Liberal government may be treated more favourably. Some, with a more sinuous twist of imagination, might even speculate that a federal Coalition government, particularly if it has a sympathetic Senate, may be sufficently provoked by the continued existence of a Territory Labor government (even one led by the amiable Ms G.) as to perform some interesting surgery on the ACT Self Government Act.

It’s an interesting thought experiment, isn’t it? I doubt it’ll happen, tho. Why can’t the Libs put on a few interesting people and also let them be themselves and allow the community to get to know them? (I could say the same thing about Labor, but they’re already on a pretty good wicket.)

The thing that I think would be most disappointing in the event of any significant changes after the next election would be the likely loss of Caroline Le Couteur. I reckon she is the most committed and consciousness person in the council, and also the person with the least ego, just quietly getting on with things and keeping the guvment to account.

There are also one or two Tory candidates that could be good, but they’re in the shadow of some of the current crop, which doesn’t help anyone.

With their current level of organisation and experience, minimal visibility as a valid Opposition, lack of clear policy, I’d expect prettymuch the final weeks of Carnell all over again.

You know, fire and brimstone coming down from the skies, rivers and seas boiling, four years of darkness, earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together in sin, mass hysteria…

Why would people who voted Green last election not vote Green next election? What do Labor or Liberal parties offer the Green voter?

If the Liberals do get in at the next election, here’s how their playbook will work: “OMG Labor left the government in SO MUCH DEBT, at this rate of spending we’ll be paying $1M in interest for every wage earner in the town!” Everything after that will be some kind of failure attributable to the previous Government (because they haven’t had the experience of running a small business much less a Government for 12 years).

That’s what Liberal governments do: despite their claim to be familiar with running businesses or corporations, the opportunity to point at lots of red in the budget to make the other guy look bad will not be passed up simply because the debt was to purchase production capital or service infrastructure damaged by once-in-a-lifetime events.

Expect a large purge of the local public service, a severe reduction in social services aimed at rehabilitating criminals, drug addicts, abuse victims, and all those people who have failed themselves and society by not being better people. After all, Liberals believe in self actualisation, and that we are all what we choose to be, don’t they? And of course, tax cuts for the rich and tax hikes for the poor: all in the name of a “user pays” economy.

What I do imagine happening is Liberal and Labor both losing votes to independents and fringe parties. It would not surprise me at all to see Chic Henry getting a seat. Would Liberal or Labor voters abandon their parties to back Chic Henry/Australian Motorists Party to strike back at the cyclists and people wanting to enhance public transport by taking lanes away from cars?

Greens will likely make another 4% gain in total votes, though not enough to win another seat. Most of those will be cyclists, or single-occupant-vehicle drivers who dream of a rosier future with free public transport that is actually useful for commuting to work outside of the 9–5 rat race.

The next three years will probably come down to (a) scuttlebutt as Liberals leak Labor papers showing how bad they were, Labor leaks Liberal papers showing how bad they are, and Greens leak their own papers in the hope that someone cares, (b) ramping up the cars vs everyone else debate, and (c) Chic Henry falling flat on his face inside 12 months, along the lines of Peter Garrett’s abysmal failure to fit into Labor party politics. Chic will learn the hard way that there’s a huge gap between being a lobbyist and being a member of the Government of the day.

If only the Liberal Party had actually had some policies of their own and referred to them when opposing everything, we’d be in a better situation.

I wonder how much it would boost the Libs’ chances if Zed and Brendan didn’t run at all!

Very fanciful thinking JB!

I’m not into the whole who gets what where, but from my perspective these are the things I’d like the Libs to do that would convince me that they are interested in anything other than themselves….

Get rid of Zed as leader. Hasn’t achieved anything in terms of traction or recognition for being a credible alternative.

Get Jeremy Hanson into the top seat quick smart. He is a good performer but over-shadowed by the non-performers who are just unprofessional

Get some of the old folk to move on. Brendan is a nice guy, but if you haven’t had success with old faithful, then get moving on your succession planning

Remove the reliance on cronies doing your dirty work and try and look like you have a clue as to how a party should run….stop letting staffers become party office bearers as it only ever backfires.

Don’t employ people who are solely popular with the community, a la Val Jeffries and his grubby jumper. He may have put out raging fires to gain community trust but it’s way different from doing it every day and understanding bigger issues

Give your new candidates who do have great experience a bloody go for heavens sake – some profile would be nice. I know I’ve got one of the newbies in my area, but have no real idea who she is – I know it’s a she at least. Got a good awful flyer with a few sentences obviously badly written by the head office. Lets get to know them. In other words, stop relying totally on the old gang who get you no where each time.

Hey Liberals…it’s not just ok to increase your vote. You have to actually win to remain credible.

remember people that Labor’s high primary vote in Ginninderra was largely the result of Jon Stanhope’s personal vote.

I’d also put it to you that Chic Henry is better known, liked, and trusted in Belconnen than any given member of the Legislative Assembly. But I guess we find out come election day!

I think you’re being very generous to Chic. It’s hard to imagine that there will be enouh people who will vote for someone who will be running on a platform of “Summernats = Good. Parking = Free. Everything else = erm…next question”.

johnboy said :

3 out of five in tuggers. Three out of five (with Chic) in Belco. Three out of seven in Molonglo.

Yeah OK, more achievable I guess. Still can’t see the Libs picking up three in Belco where Labor had its best results and where the Greens have their best operator.

But three in Tuggers is do-able, and possibly in Molonglo (out of 7). Eight max, which still wouldn’t give them a majority in their own right, but would give them a moral victory of having more seats than Labor!.

Scary thought JB. I can’t see though the Libs picking up 4 out of 6 in Tuggers, that would require more than 50% of the votes I would suspect.
I like this analysis done at http://bit.ly/NYfATW – seems to be somewhat considered. But like you, I wouldn’t discount the Libs going damned close. I doubt Chic in Belco will poll anything more than a few hundred votes though and Coe and Dunne are not hugely popular, and the Libs will really struggle in Molonglo.