17 June 2011

What would get you Rioting for real?

| johnboy
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You might have been surprised by news that Vancouver had a pretty lively riot yesterday.

A prosperous anglo city with a population well under a million, generally considered nice but a little dull and there they are torching cars.

John Dolan in The Exiled has a good take on the culture of the thing which finishes like this:

So why should I mind if somebody else’s truck contributes a few minutes of black plastic smoke to the empty mirror HQ buildings downtown?

You’ll even see a shot of the black smoke rising from downtown Vancouver in this RT clip and you tell me if it doesn’t make the whole dull wealthy inhuman place look interesting and lively for a few minutes. There are very few cities in the world which would not be briefly enlivened by black smoke rising from the financial district.

Surely if Vancouver can riot we could too here in Canberra?

But what would it take to get you out in the streets setting fire to things and smashing windows?

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damnintellectuals said :

Comparing Canberra to Vancouver? You have to be joking, right? ….. The numbers of homeless in Vancouver is astounding (Canberra has no East Hastings)…..

The main reason that Vancouver has so many homeless (tried sleeping outdoors in Calgary in winter?) as the effect of decreasing the homeless rate in Canberra (why be homeless here, when it is much warmer in Brisbane?).

damnintellectuals said :

Comparing Canberra to Vancouver? You have to be joking, right? Aside from having a far greater metro-area population than Canberra (as well as a higher population density), the diversity within their population is incredible and not just in ethnic terms. The numbers of homeless in Vancouver is astounding (Canberra has no East Hastings). Also, the drug culture up there is far more permissive (there’s a reason why it’s called Vansterdam). Vancouver is far more progressive and alive than Canberra.

I find it quite humorous that you cite Vancouver’s extensive homelessness and drug issues, and then go on to assert that it’s more progressive and alive than Canberra.

damnintellectuals2:03 am 20 Jun 11

Comparing Canberra to Vancouver? You have to be joking, right? Aside from having a far greater metro-area population than Canberra (as well as a higher population density), the diversity within their population is incredible and not just in ethnic terms. The numbers of homeless in Vancouver is astounding (Canberra has no East Hastings). Also, the drug culture up there is far more permissive (there’s a reason why it’s called Vansterdam). Vancouver is far more progressive and alive than Canberra.

emd said :

People are usually only willing to risk their freedom and destroy property when they have nothing else left.

Or when their team doesn’t get a big trophy, apparently.

johnboy said :

Summernats and parliament house were both interstaters rioting though…

Parliament House wasn’t even a riot, more an opportunistic occupation of the front doors. Summernats was the only real riot Ive seen in Canberra. It reminded me of Bathurst.

The key ingredients, if you want to roll your own riot, would be large group of males, totally smashed on spirits, with no entertainment other than baiting police. Then its just a matter of when and where to light it up.

Its interesting people have mainly listed politically motivated rioting. Id put my money on alcohol every time.

Tetranitrate said :

Pork Hunt said :

I can’t think of a single country that hasn’t had a civil war after going from a monarchy to a republic.

Then you’re not trying very hard.

Italy became a republic via a referendum in 1946. No civil war.
Romania, Hungary & Bulgaria too around the same time, not really in a democratic manner but no civil war.

Not sure the aftermath of a world warcan be considered a more peaceful option than a revolution.

Especially when in all the cases you cite to new government was to the liking of occupying armies.

Tetranitrate2:53 pm 19 Jun 11

Pork Hunt said :

I can’t think of a single country that hasn’t had a civil war after going from a monarchy to a republic.

Then you’re not trying very hard.

Italy became a republic via a referendum in 1946. No civil war.
Romania, Hungary & Bulgaria too around the same time, not really in a democratic manner but no civil war.

Canberrans won’t riot over anything as long as we are all kept in our comfortable middle class suburban lives. People are usually only willing to risk their freedom and destroy property when they have nothing else left. If Canberrans thought they were losing their jobs, homes, and their ability to look after their family, they might riot.

The Brumbies being thrashed by the ‘tahs.

wait-

Watson said :

KB1971 said :

Captain RAAF trapping my cat & taking it to the pound………

+1 We have a mob!

The good Captain bringing my cat back to me would do it (I hate that damn cat!).

Putting Simple Simon back as Planning Minister. He was a disaster, with his only achievement being to make Brendan Smyth look like an intellectual giant.

Oh wait…

New South Wales winning the third State of Origin game.

Thoroughly Smashed1:56 pm 18 Jun 11

BigDave said :

Jim Jones said :

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

Sounds like a Liberal Party policy list.

That’s funny, I was thinking it sounded like a Green Labor Party policy list.

http://lolwut.com/layout/lolwut.jpg

KB1971 said :

Captain RAAF trapping my cat & taking it to the pound………

+1 We have a mob!

BigDave said :

Jim Jones said :

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

Sounds like a Liberal Party policy list.

That’s funny, I was thinking it sounded like a Green Labor Party policy list.

Both, pretty much.

Jim Jones said :

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

Sounds like a Liberal Party policy list.

That’s funny, I was thinking it sounded like a Green Labor Party policy list.

I just watched the hockey game in question, and I can attest that if I were a Vancouver Canucks fan then I’d definitely feel like punching someone in the face right now.

I’m with the Captain.

I’m a peaceful man. But it would be best to leave my guns alone.

dpm said :

I suppose the difference may be that negative gearing does not affect the price of everyday housing.

Increase the price of everyday housing is pretty much all that negative gearing does. 9 out of 10 newly negatively geared properties are existing properties, that is to say only 1 in 10 negatively geared properties is a new build. Property investors buying existing houses doesn’t add to housing supply, it just turns potential home owners into renters and forces up prices artificially.

If the government was really serious about addressing affordability, they’d make negative gearing only apply to newly constructed dwellings which would actually increase supply of housing.

As for the middle class welfare in this country, it truly makes me sick to my stomach. It shows how warped people’s perspectives are when the Australian and Telegraphrun stories on how the government is attacking ordinary middle class battlers on $150-200k a year, when the median household income in Australia is $67k. That is to say that half of all Australian households earn less than $67k a year.

vg said :

aidan said :

We don’t have to speculate, there was the Summernats Riot (was that late 90s?).

Early 90s

But the early 90’s didn’t arrive in Canberra until the late 90’s. And the 90’s didn’t arrive in Queanbeyan until after Y2K. I guess in bogan terms, **** really is relative 🙂

Pork Hunt said :

What would the average Riot Actor do if Australia was to become a a republic?

I can’t think of a single country that hasn’t had a civil war after going from a monarchy to a republic.

A civil war would start with some sort of riot, I imagine…

I guess there’ll be a riot either way then, if we don’t become a republic when the Queen dies I’ll be rioting!

What would the average Riot Actor do if Australia was to become a a republic?

I can’t think of a single country that hasn’t had a civil war after going from a monarchy to a republic.

A civil war would start with some sort of riot, I imagine…

Primal said :

….Naturally, this would include overturning and burning all the cars currently on our newly-liberated lands.

Kinda makes you wonder how many of the shop front windows smashed in the Vancouver riots were broken by employees of glaziers.

When the last free parking space disappears from the Parliamentary Zone, we may just have to march north over the bridges and “liberate” some car parks from the bourgeoisie of Civic who care not about our plight. Naturally, this would include overturning and burning all the cars currently on our newly-liberated lands.

colourful sydney racing identity4:28 pm 17 Jun 11

I would probably give the rioting a miss and stick to looting.

It’s really an excellent question isn’t it? What would make you spill over…..?

For me, I feel like I could do that at any moment anyway. But after little thought, things like:

1. In support of our Defence folk
2. In support of our Emergency people (nurses, fire, police, SES, etc) should they need support.
3. Anything against bullying, harassment, etc. (damn, I hate that stuff with a passion).
4. To support my family.

johnboy said :

Summernats and parliament house were both interstaters rioting though…

Yes true. ACT’ers would have done neither just by themselves. Normally we just timidly type our issue.

Perhaps there is a North verse South fracture waiting for a spark to explode it into a riot?

Summernats and parliament house were both interstaters rioting though…

aidan said :

We don’t have to speculate, there was the Summernats Riot (was that late 90s?).

Early 90s

The Greens winning a Senate seat in the ACT.

Internet filter

There was another riot in Canberra, back in 1996 when John Howard was elected. Front doors to the house smashed, gift shop raided, and roaring chant across the crowd of “Howard’s a Wanker”.

I would never riot over a sporting event, but politics might do it for me. Perhaps a denialist Prime Minister, or a racist one, or a military coup would do it for me. Perhaps a new King might rial me.

Classified said :

Tetranitrate said :

random said :

move from progressive to regressive income tax

But the income tax system already is kinda regressive: wage income gets hit by far the hardest. Capital gains are taxed at half the rate as wage/salary income, there’s scams like negative gearing, plus the whole god damn super system that was a great idea to begin with, but is now effectively just a way for the wealthy to avoid paying tax on assets by slipping them into a self managed super fund – you can actually get money out of the government through various tricks.

It’s not strictly regressive in that the people who are hit the hardest are educated professionals with high wage/salary incomes, not the ‘working poor’ but it’s certainly the case that the asset-wealthy pay less tax per $ of income than most of those who earn far less.

Some good points here.

I guess the government wants to encourage people to invest, though, to reduce the cost of providing them with support and services (now and in old age), and to stimulate the economy.

Yep, it’s quite interesting, people bleat about solar panel feed in schemes being for the rich, but no one really worrys about thing like negative gearing – a scheme that you generally have to be at the richer-end of ‘affording solar panels’ to be a part of. i.e It is even more ‘rich getting richer’ than those pesky panels. I suppose the difference may be that negative gearing does not affect the price of everyday housing (Do we know? This article questions it: http://www.smartcompany.com.au/finance/20110606-property-experts-question-merit-of-negative-gearing.html) .
So I suppose people are OK with rich people investing and ‘stimulating the economy’ in most ways, just not with solar panels?

(Disclaimer: Spoken by a person without solar panels!)

thatsnotme said :

johnboy said :

billbixby1 said :

bah! As if Canberra would ever riot. We are nothing like Vancouver. We are merely a spec of fart compared to that large anus. For one it’s a city of 2.5 mill. and secondly they actually have a “city” to riot in. What would Canberra do? Throw stones at the chess pit?

According to Wikipedia Vancouver City has a population of 578,041.

Yet the Greater Vancouver metropolitan area has 2,116,581 people. It’d be like quoting Sydney’s population, but deciding that Parramatta, Penrith and Campbeltown weren’t part of Sydney.

+1. Vancouver is a lot bigger than Canberra.

I’d riot if I felt my freedoms were under significant threat from the government. But I wouldn’t break private property. Government property, maybe.

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

+1

johnboy said :

billbixby1 said :

bah! As if Canberra would ever riot. We are nothing like Vancouver. We are merely a spec of fart compared to that large anus. For one it’s a city of 2.5 mill. and secondly they actually have a “city” to riot in. What would Canberra do? Throw stones at the chess pit?

According to Wikipedia Vancouver City has a population of 578,041.

Yet the Greater Vancouver metropolitan area has 2,116,581 people. It’d be like quoting Sydney’s population, but deciding that Parramatta, Penrith and Campbeltown weren’t part of Sydney.

Shall we include the Capital Country too then?

johnboy said :

billbixby1 said :

bah! As if Canberra would ever riot. We are nothing like Vancouver. We are merely a spec of fart compared to that large anus. For one it’s a city of 2.5 mill. and secondly they actually have a “city” to riot in. What would Canberra do? Throw stones at the chess pit?

According to Wikipedia Vancouver City has a population of 578,041.

Thats the actual city population, not counting the suburbs. If you are gonna use that figure you can qoute Canberra’s population as the population of Civic.

Captain RAAF trapping my cat & taking it to the pound………

Nope, my limit is “liking” a facebook support page…

lol

billbixby1 said :

bah! As if Canberra would ever riot. We are nothing like Vancouver. We are merely a spec of fart compared to that large anus. For one it’s a city of 2.5 mill. and secondly they actually have a “city” to riot in. What would Canberra do? Throw stones at the chess pit?

According to Wikipedia Vancouver City has a population of 578,041.

bah! As if Canberra would ever riot. We are nothing like Vancouver. We are merely a spec of fart compared to that large anus. For one it’s a city of 2.5 mill. and secondly they actually have a “city” to riot in. What would Canberra do? Throw stones at the chess pit?

Tetranitrate said :

random said :

move from progressive to regressive income tax

But the income tax system already is kinda regressive: wage income gets hit by far the hardest. Capital gains are taxed at half the rate as wage/salary income, there’s scams like negative gearing, plus the whole god damn super system that was a great idea to begin with, but is now effectively just a way for the wealthy to avoid paying tax on assets by slipping them into a self managed super fund – you can actually get money out of the government through various tricks.

It’s not strictly regressive in that the people who are hit the hardest are educated professionals with high wage/salary incomes, not the ‘working poor’ but it’s certainly the case that the asset-wealthy pay less tax per $ of income than most of those who earn far less.

Some good points here.

I guess the government wants to encourage people to invest, though, to reduce the cost of providing them with support and services (now and in old age), and to stimulate the economy.

Chop71 said :

If Collingwood was to win another premiership then that’s another story

+1, though sadly looking very realistic in the very near september future… ;(

Captain RAAF1:15 pm 17 Jun 11

Banning firearm ownership….well I wouldn’t riot but i’d bury my guns for the rainy day that would come later.

I would be ashamed to do something like this. Anger is one thing, total disrespect for another’s property is another thing. Maybe they would live someone to come and smash their front windows? Most likely not.

Tetranitrate12:51 pm 17 Jun 11

random said :

move from progressive to regressive income tax

But the income tax system already is kinda regressive: wage income gets hit by far the hardest. Capital gains are taxed at half the rate as wage/salary income, there’s scams like negative gearing, plus the whole god damn super system that was a great idea to begin with, but is now effectively just a way for the wealthy to avoid paying tax on assets by slipping them into a self managed super fund – you can actually get money out of the government through various tricks.

It’s not strictly regressive in that the people who are hit the hardest are educated professionals with high wage/salary incomes, not the ‘working poor’ but it’s certainly the case that the asset-wealthy pay less tax per $ of income than most of those who earn far less.

Jim Jones said :

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

Sounds like a Liberal Party policy list.

Sounds like some good ideas for trimming middle class welfare.

random said :

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

Sounds like a Liberal Party policy list.

What a disgrace. Seeing as the footage is very clear and most of them didn’t even bother to hide their faces whilst they were rioting and damaging property there should be quite a few charged.

Abolishing Medicare, re-instituting the draft, disenfranchisement, move from progressive to regressive income tax, some kind of Logan’s Run scenario…

I don’t normally like to speak for others, but staff yelling out ‘last drinks’ at any inner-city drinking venue from Thursday to Saturday will get the fights started.

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

Someone torching or breaking something I own during a riot would do it.

+10 for me.

I went to a Canucks game in late 2008 (even bought a jersey). Yeah losing game 7 in Vancouver to Boston would have me pretty pissed off although I would go down the path of love not war.

If Collingwood was to win another premiership then that’s another story

We don’t have to speculate, there was the Summernats Riot (was that late 90s?).

The lazy Zed Seselja ever becoming Chief Minister! In fact, any of those awful ACT Libs holding power.

Reptoid overthrow of the ACT Government.

It should be pretty easy to convict the perps, most of them were still wearing their hockey uniforms!

DarkLadyWolfMother11:09 am 17 Jun 11

Someone torching or breaking something I own during a riot would do it.

I’d be pissed off if my team lost to Boston.

Another re-election of labor deadheads, being lead by Katy!

Destruction of other people’s property has never (so far) crossed my mind as a valid outlet of my displeasure with a government or sporting event.

Regardless of the ‘spark that caused the fire’ it’s still just mindless destruction and is, more often than not, completely disrespectful of our fellow man.

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