16 March 2011

Whither the transgendered?

| johnboy
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Simon Corbell has alerted the population that he’s asking the Law Reform Advisory Council to consider the plight of those trying to be a gender other than what they were born to.

“The ACT places a strong level of importance on the human rights of all community members, and this latest reference to the LRAC will investigate if there are any gaps in the legal rights of transexual and intersex people in the ACT,” Mr Corbell said.

“The Council’s inquiry will provide an opportunity for the public to comment on the matter. A process for this consultation will be announced soon.”

Mr Corbell said the Government has worked closely with the Chair of the Law Reform Advisory Council, Associate Professor Simon Rice, to develop terms of reference that would result in a meaningful examination of the Territory’s laws relating to transgender and intersex people.

Simon promises that at some point there will be more information on this to be found at the JaCS website.

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Solidarity wrote: “If you’re born with boy bits you’re a boy, if you’re born with girl bits you’re a girl,”…

Except if you have either 5ARD or 17BHDD syndrome. Then you’re born with girl bits, but they change later in life to boy bits, and you may be able to father children afterwards.

See for example The Guevedoces of the Dominican Republic. That’s 5ARD. But it’s found in 1 in ~100,000 of the general population too. So is 17BHDD, there are clusters of that mutation too, one of them in Jubayah in Gaza.

Some really rare conditions cause changes the other way, and there’s at least one of those in Canberra. See the recent ABC program on the subject.

I don’t think transgender and intersex issues are prominent enough on the agenda of the trendy lefties middle class white guilt brigade for this action on the part of Simon Corbell to actually secure votes, or change people’s voting habits. And yes, it is very possible that these issues were brought to his attention by individuals and groups that advocate on behalf of GLBTI people, particularly as we have seen a recent expansion and establishment of groups in the ACT such as A Gender Agenda, which is doing some excellent work in raising awareness of gender issues.

In late 2010, Joy Burch hosted an event at the Legislative Assembly focusing on issues experienced by GLTBI young people, at which a young person spoke to a number of MLAs about the issues experienced by people she knew, who identify as transgender or intersex. So yes, it has been a topic of discussion in the Assembly.

Having said this, I frankly don’t care what his motivations are behind this; he is still working towards a positive outcome and that’s good enough for me.

Finally, just in relation to your 99.99999% of the population not being transgendered – actually, there is very little data pertaining to the population of transgendered or intersex people, particularly because it is still so highly stigmatised. Data on the rates of intersex babies specifically (so, not including transgendered people) varies from 0.02 – 1.7% of the population in Australia. Therefore the rate of transgendered and intersex people might be higher than you think.

Pommy bastard10:28 am 19 Mar 11

Well some of us not transgendered, (ie. 99.999999999% of the |ACT population,) may find it hard to appreciate the need for Corbell to waste his time and our money looking for potential gaps in the legal rights of transexual and intersex people in the ACT.

Surely if those gaps are noted by the transexual and intersex people of the ACT, or have some effect on the transexual and intersex people of the ACT, they would be highlighted and addressed as the need arises.

Now did the collective transexual and intersex people in the ACT request this of him? Or is it merely him playing to the right on trendy lefties middle class white guilt brigade in order to secure some kudos and votes? Hmmmmm ?

Pommy bastard said :

No, teh way Simon Corbell chooses to spend his time, which is what people here are complaining about, is the issue.

The fact that he has chosen to look to create some “human rights issues,” out of nothing, is a side issue.

Oh right – so now the only issue is ‘how he spends his time’. Well, I think it’s very honourable that he has chosen to spend time advocating for a minority group that is one of Canberra’s most hidden (because they experience such perverse discrimination); and that don’t often get the opportunity to have their rights addressed.

What a good use of time.

Pommy bastard11:31 am 18 Mar 11

Eby said :

Of course it’s a human rights issue, and I’m quite certain that most people who identify as transgender, transsexual, or intersex would also agree it’s a human rights issue. Just because it’s not an issue for you, or anyone you know (bar one), you don’t get to decide it’s not a human rights issue.

No, teh way Simon Corbell chooses to spend his time, which is what people here are complaining about, is the issue.

The fact that he has chosen to look to create some “human rights issues,” out of nothing, is a side issue.

Pippy said :

I agree. i don’t understand why so many people get angry or offended when it doesn’t affect them personally. i am not, nor do i know any transexual or ‘intersex’ people, however i still believe in and respect their human rights.
if it doesn’t affect you, mind your own business and get on with your own life.

That’s exactly right Pippy. On a side note, I think it’s a shame that people like you and I feel we need to prefice our comments by saying (by the way, I’m not [insert transgender / intersex / gay / black / unemployed / on the dole / homeless]) because we know that if we don’t, the Pommy Bastards of this forum will then disregard our comments as just being ‘one of the whinging minority’.

Eby said :

Pommy bastard said :

Eby said :

It’s a human rights issue. And maybe there’s a reason you only know one. I know plenty in Canberra.

No it’s not a “human rights issue”, it’s a lefty polly trying to find or even create “human rights issues” none may exist, in order to be seen to be “standing up for minorities” to gain political capital with the “middle class white guilt” brigade.

Of course it’s a human rights issue, and I’m quite certain that most people who identify as transgender, transsexual, or intersex would also agree it’s a human rights issue. Just because it’s not an issue for you, or anyone you know (bar one), you don’t get to decide it’s not a human rights issue.

+1 – well said.

Eby said :

Pommy bastard said :

Eby said :

.

Of course it’s a human rights issue, and I’m quite certain that most people who identify as transgender, transsexual, or intersex would also agree it’s a human rights issue. Just because it’s not an issue for you, or anyone you know (bar one), you don’t get to decide it’s not a human rights issue.

I agree. i don’t understand why so many people get angry or offended when it doesn’t affect them personally. i am not, nor do i know any transexual or ‘intersex’ people, however i still believe in and respect their human rights.
if it doesn’t affect you, mind your own business and get on with your own life.

Deckard said :

Eby said :

I know plenty in Canberra.

You must go to the right bars 🙂

haha no – I think I just come into contact with social circles in which transgendered people feel more comfortable participating in; and where they feel more accepted.

Pommy bastard said :

Eby said :

It’s a human rights issue. And maybe there’s a reason you only know one. I know plenty in Canberra.

No it’s not a “human rights issue”, it’s a lefty polly trying to find or even create “human rights issues” none may exist, in order to be seen to be “standing up for minorities” to gain political capital with the “middle class white guilt” brigade.

Of course it’s a human rights issue, and I’m quite certain that most people who identify as transgender, transsexual, or intersex would also agree it’s a human rights issue. Just because it’s not an issue for you, or anyone you know (bar one), you don’t get to decide it’s not a human rights issue.

absharp said :

And I still can’t get anyone from the ACT Government to fix the broken footpath.

+1

Footpaths don’t have any rights, nor do crime victims, households, taxpayers, roadusers etc etc etc.

Solidarity said :

If you’re born with boy bits you’re a boy, if you’re born with girl bits you’re a girl, why are we wasting time and money on this?

You realise it’s not that simple right? I assume the issue being talked about here is when the person feels their mental gender doesn’t match with the physical one, but defining gender is not as simple as you describe. There are a vast array of conditions that have some type of gender ambiguity. I don’t know much about it but people are born with ambiguous “bits” (the doctors can’t tell!) and there are all sorts of chromosomal issues too, look up XO (Turner’s syndrome), XYY, XXY etc. Rare but that doesn’t mean they can be ignored.

Pommy bastard9:13 am 17 Mar 11

Eby said :

It’s a human rights issue. And maybe there’s a reason you only know one. I know plenty in Canberra.

No it’s not a “human rights issue”, it’s a lefty polly trying to find or even create “human rights issues” none may exist, in order to be seen to be “standing up for minorities” to gain political capital with the “middle class white guilt” brigade.

And I still can’t get anyone from the ACT Government to fix the broken footpath.

Eby said :

I know plenty in Canberra.

You must go to the right bars 🙂

Captain RAAF7:19 pm 16 Mar 11

Pommy bastard said :

What percentage of the ACT population is “trans-gendered”? (0.01%? 0.001%? 0.00001%?)

I know of at least one.

Spend that percentage of ACT Govy time and money on the matter.

Is Corbell short of work?

I saw one today, she was bigger than I am….and I’m built like a brick dunny….that may have been eating too many pies lately.

It’s typical of pollies tho, pandering to the smallest of minorities while everyone else just shakes their heads…..but does little else.

neanderthalsis said :

So when did hermaphrodites become “intersex people”? Is this just a term that the PC brigade invented to classify South African sprinters and Chinese swimmers?

I don’t believe the term ‘hermaphrodite’ was ever ‘ok’ with intersex people. It’s completely derogatory, and no better than saying nigger or poof.

Pommy bastard said :

What percentage of the ACT population is “trans-gendered”? (0.01%? 0.001%? 0.00001%?)

I know of at least one.

Spend that percentage of ACT Govy time and money on the matter.

It’s a human rights issue. And maybe there’s a reason you only know one. I know plenty in Canberra.

neanderthalsis said :

beejay76 said :

Perhaps PC, but I think the point is that it’s more inclusive. Sex disorders are very, very complicated and there’s a whoooooole bunch of them that aren’t really covered by “hermaphrodite”. Hence “intersex”.

So does being a fat man with “moobs” make you intersex?

Um, how about someone born genetically male (XY) but has no boy bits, has partially developed girl bits, and looks like a girl? My understanding that sometimes this condition isn’t diagnosed until much later, such as after puberty.

Skidbladnir said :

Sex does not equal gender.

Examples weren’t exhaustive, doesn’t cover unusual things like Fa’afafine, Fakaleiti, Kathoey, Hijra, etc.
But like I said, gender identity is viewed as a sociocultural phenomenon, but the law tends only to deal with sexual characteristics.

neanderthalsis3:21 pm 16 Mar 11

beejay76 said :

Perhaps PC, but I think the point is that it’s more inclusive. Sex disorders are very, very complicated and there’s a whoooooole bunch of them that aren’t really covered by “hermaphrodite”. Hence “intersex”.

So does being a fat man with “moobs” make you intersex?

I’d like to grow wings and fly. Will Corbell help me out too?

neanderthalsis said :

So when did hermaphrodites become “intersex people”? Is this just a term that the PC brigade invented to classify South African sprinters and Chinese swimmers?

Perhaps PC, but I think the point is that it’s more inclusive. Sex disorders are very, very complicated and there’s a whoooooole bunch of them that aren’t really covered by “hermaphrodite”. Hence “intersex”.

Good to see that at least someone in Labor’s doing something about human rights.

neanderthalsis2:40 pm 16 Mar 11

So when did hermaphrodites become “intersex people”? Is this just a term that the PC brigade invented to classify South African sprinters and Chinese swimmers?

Pommy bastard2:29 pm 16 Mar 11

What percentage of the ACT population is “trans-gendered”? (0.01%? 0.001%? 0.00001%?)

I know of at least one.

Spend that percentage of ACT Govy time and money on the matter.

Is Corbell short of work?

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Solidarity said :

If you’re born with boy bits you’re a boy, if you’re born with girl bits you’re a girl, why are we wasting time and money on this?

Right, so if you are born with impared vision you should always have it?

Bad example CSRI.

Sex does not equal gender.

Sex = Biologically male or female (ie: chromosomes, boybits vs girlbits, hormonal profile, etc )
Gender = Sociological\Cultural masculine or feminine identity.

At least as far as the HREOC is concerned.

georgesgenitals2:07 pm 16 Mar 11

Surely a birth certificate should simply state the gender at birth…

You can’t “feel like” being blind, or vice versa.

colourful sydney racing identity1:12 pm 16 Mar 11

Solidarity said :

If you’re born with boy bits you’re a boy, if you’re born with girl bits you’re a girl, why are we wasting time and money on this?

Right, so if you are born with impared vision you should always have it?

If you’re born with boy bits you’re a boy, if you’re born with girl bits you’re a girl, why are we wasting time and money on this?

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