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Who pays? The cost of government decisions

By weeziepops - 9 June 2009 57

RSPCA ACT, for the first time ever if I’m not mistaken, was open for extended hours over the long weekend to manage the influx of lost and injured animals as a result of fireworks usage.  Now before you zone out, I’m not raising this in order to debate the banning of fireworks.  I think we have done that one to death.  I am raising it to seek thoughts on the issue of who should pay.  RSPCA ACT responded to need and kept their services available for extended hours at, I assume, their own cost.  The pound also stayed open extended hours, funded by government. 

So who should cover costs like this?  RSPCA ACT only stayed open late to address a need arising from a government decision to allow fireworks.  Should they therefore be able to seek funds from the government for the extra costs? 

What’s Your opinion?


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57 Responses to
Who pays? The cost of government decisions
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jakez 9:22 am 10 Jun 09

Your type of philosophy can be smugly espoused within a society where there are defined human rights and rules governing interaction between people rather than relying on the moral judgement of individuals.

Many types of philosophies can be smugly espoused within that society. Many types of cheap insults, strawmen, and ad hominems can be smugly espoused within that society as well. I’m glad to see you avail yourself of this.

If personal liberty is the guiding light you would have to accept that if you or the voluntary collective gathered around you could not prevent it, others could take the property you considered you owned and buy the biggest bunger and chuck it into your dogs kennel.

Of course I accept that. I accept that in all facets of life and under all systems. This is nothing more than the libertopia fallacy. I don’t have to create heaven, I just have to show that it is better than the alternative.

If you want to do that, we’ll have to go off RiotACT because Johnboy gets very cranky about going off topic and I’d say we are already really pushing it.

As for the specific examples provided. I support greater avenues for self defence, significant reforms to our legal system to reduce the cost and time taken, and a move to more restitution based judgments. Furthermore, both my legal and economics training tell me that banning fireworks won’t end the great scourge of incendiary devices that currently rains down on our canine and mailbox friends.

People fool themselves when they believe that what they have achieved is totally the result of their own effort and that the society in which they live has not played its part and should not be entitled to a return and that they should pay no “social rent” to be allowed to operate within the society for their own benefit.

Those people would be fooling themselves and I would laugh at them with a deep belly laugh. Oh the ho’s and hum’s that would be emitted.

A society is the sum total of the many voluntary interactions and transactions that take place. Within those transactions and interactions, the individuals are recompensed for their effort and for their proclivities, on both a material and ‘metaphysical’ level.

It is this very idea that I wish to strengthen, for as it is now, a great leviathon reduces this recompense and stymies those interactions and transactions.

monomania 5:35 pm 09 Jun 09

jakez said :

I regard the raising of funds through taxes as coercion yes, although until recently I was a Lockean classical liberal and thus allowed a very small number of items for taxation that went to the heart of governance under the Lockean concept of a social contract. Judicial system, police, defence, roads. I’m happy to fight this battle on either ground.

Your type of philosophy can be smugly espoused within a society where there are defined human rights and rules governing interaction between people rather than relying on the moral judgement of individuals. If personal liberty is the guiding light you would have to accept that if you or the voluntary collective gathered around you could not prevent it, others could take the property you considered you owned and buy the biggest bunger and chuck it into your dogs kennel.

People fool themselves when they believe that what they have achieved is totally the result of their own effort and that the society in which they live has not played its part and should not be entitled to a return and that they should pay no “social rent” to be allowed to operate within the society for their own benefit.

Clown Killer 5:19 pm 09 Jun 09

A distressed dog does not gain superpowers to fly out of the yard.

Fly no. But easily clear a 1.8m clourbod fence – absolutely. Run through a glass sliding door – no problem. Pull on a chain so hard that the collar cuts through the flesh to the bone – easy-peasy.

threepaws 5:15 pm 09 Jun 09

If you truly believe that an animal in distress could not find it’s way out of a ‘secure’ yard, you are more idiotic than your last comment.

chewy14 4:43 pm 09 Jun 09

threepaws said :

chewy14 said :

threepaws said :

Maybe you can put a call out to the community for a grieving family who you can meet with. My dogs and cats survived the weekend so I’m afraid I can’t help you personally.

So your the spokeman for families that had animals die on the weekend but weren’t personally affected? No?
How do you know how they feel then?
Maybe they don’t care because they obviously don’t feel that a properly secured yard is necessary for their precious pet.

Firstly, see my comment @ #17.

Secondly, I am assuming that people are sad when their pet dies. I have been sad before when my pets have died of natural causes. I can imagine that I would be sad and angry if their death was a result of illegal firework activity.

Are you the spokesperson for people with stupid questions?

You really are an idiot.
Where in this thread was anyone talking about illegal fireworks?
Everyone agreed that the people who use illegal fireworks should be fined or punished.
If my dog got out of my yard and died I would have no-one to blame but myself. A distressed dog does not gain superpowers to fly out of the yard.

jakez 4:33 pm 09 Jun 09

Illegal firework activity?

Lulz.

Take a breath, reset the inner Spock, and come back.

threepaws 4:29 pm 09 Jun 09

chewy14 said :

threepaws said :

Maybe you can put a call out to the community for a grieving family who you can meet with. My dogs and cats survived the weekend so I’m afraid I can’t help you personally.

So your the spokeman for families that had animals die on the weekend but weren’t personally affected? No?
How do you know how they feel then?
Maybe they don’t care because they obviously don’t feel that a properly secured yard is necessary for their precious pet.

Firstly, see my comment @ #17.

Secondly, I am assuming that people are sad when their pet dies. I have been sad before when my pets have died of natural causes. I can imagine that I would be sad and angry if their death was a result of illegal firework activity.

Are you the spokesperson for people with stupid questions?

Duke 4:25 pm 09 Jun 09

See I have reached an accommodation with my doggie neighbour that other pet lovers can learn from. Basically I put up with year-round barking all the while keeping my sweet sweet mouth shut, never complaining about the noise because I think my neighbour is great, despite his dog.

In return, he knows that firecracker night is my night for payback, baybeeeeee!!!!

chewy14 4:18 pm 09 Jun 09

threepaws said :

Maybe you can put a call out to the community for a grieving family who you can meet with. My dogs and cats survived the weekend so I’m afraid I can’t help you personally.

So your the spokeman for families that had animals die on the weekend but weren’t personally affected? No?
How do you know how they feel then?
Maybe they don’t care because they obviously don’t feel that a properly secured yard is necessary for their precious pet.

poptop 4:18 pm 09 Jun 09

This is going well.

It seems the vast majority of dogs managed to remain in their yards/homes/laundries and presumably have overcome the perils of the weekend.

It also seems that the vast majority of firework users behaved responsibly and within the boundaries of the law.

Where people operate fireworks outside the law (like letting off fireworks at 3am, or tonight or inside someone’s letterbox) they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I confess I have previously taken in a couple of dogs that I’ve found wandering the streets on the Queen’s Birthday long weekend. I have checked their tags and rung their homes. If the owners are home, we organise the dog drop. Otherwise it’s put out some dog biscuits, water, an old blankie and contact the owner the next morning.

Lost kids, lost pets, lost library books – this all should be mainly managed by a reasonably functional community who doesn’t believe that everything has to be either banned, regulated or managed by Government.

Why is this so difficult?

threepaws 4:00 pm 09 Jun 09

One weekend a year – of course, because fireworks users are so responsible.

threepaws 3:55 pm 09 Jun 09

Maybe you can put a call out to the community for a grieving family who you can meet with. My dogs and cats survived the weekend so I’m afraid I can’t help you personally.

Duke 3:50 pm 09 Jun 09

@ threepaws – while you enjoy the fireworks this week, i’ll continue to put up with barking dogs that disturb my sleep, soil my yard and harass me as I walk down the footpath – and that happens all year round, not one weekend a year.

And I’m happy to debate with any pet owner why my choice of pleasure is just as valid as theirs.

jakez 3:40 pm 09 Jun 09

threepaws said :

I’d love you to explain to a family who has lost their beloved pet why you think your enjoyment is more important than the life of their animal.

Can you actually set this up?

threepaws 3:40 pm 09 Jun 09

jakez said :

Not at all. They don’t have to do it they are freely choosing to do it.

The RSPCA could have shut up shop and let terrified dogs run the streets. They chose not to because (despite some philosophical failings) they are people with a passion and a mission and they want to do good. They have freely chosen to expend a certain amount of resources to achieve a certain amount of good. Their reward is the good that they have done, no more and no less.

To ask for compensation now would be immoral and akin to mowing someones lawn without their permission and then knocking on the door and feeling entitled to recompense.

Had the pound been open on the weekend, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Then it would have been a choice for the RSPCA to open.

chewy14 3:38 pm 09 Jun 09

threepaws said :

I’d love you to explain to a family who has lost their beloved pet why you think your enjoyment is more important than the life of their animal.

Why has this hypothetical family lost their beloved pet?
Oh thats right, they forgot to look after it by not securing their yard.
And that’s my fault how?

PM 3:32 pm 09 Jun 09

Well, I like to think I do a lot for stimulating the economy with all the beers I purchase. The government really should have paid for that, not me, so I’m sending them an itemised bill.

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