15 April 2009

Why it's best to stay indoors - parenting in public places

| weeziepops
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As I waited to be served at Subway in the Hyperdome, I watched with fascination as a child clambered atop the counter, leaned over the cash register and started pressing random buttons.

My main interest was the mother’s reaction to this. Nothing for a few minutes. Then, when she finally noticed my focussed attention, she whined, “Britney, get down.”

I think that was her name – it may have been Breanna, Chapelle, Bylynda or similar. Also note that the woman gave the word “down” about forty-three syllables, as in “dow-o-ow-o-ow-owwwn.” I am perhaps being a bit mean, however – she did have half a dozen other small charges, all of whom appeared equally well behaved.

Needless to say, the child did not get down until one of the staff members piped up in his breaking, fifteen year old voice voice, “Get down, please.” She then turned her attention to taking and unwrapping about a dozen straws, at which point I over-stepped the bounds and asked her what she thought she was doing.

She dropped the straws and returned to her mother, who in turn glared at me as if I had breached a fundamental code – thou shalt not question, berate or judge another person’s child.

What do others think?

Does a stranger have the right to object to the behaviour of another person’s offspring in a public place?

Other people's children

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ant said :

If kids are barrelling around, crashing in to people, I make sure that when/if they barrell into me, my knee is coming up at around the same time.

I evaded detection by umpires in hockey for years, I figure the handlers of such children have no hope. wouldn’t it be nice if they raised their kids?

Like you were raised you? Successfully to be either a braggard or if what you say about your hockey is true a sneaky bully. Bet your opponents though you were a real pissant.

ant said :

If kids are barrelling around, crashing in to people, I make sure that when/if they barrell into me, my knee is coming up at around the same time. As they’re flying into the dog biscuit display, I hope they’re reflecting on smashing into people being a REALLY bad idea, before they do it to an old lady with crap bones.

I evaded detection by umpires in hockey for years, I figure the handlers of such children have no hope. wouldn’t it be nice if they raised their kids?

It’s little gems like this one that give us insight into your wonderful caring personality.

Don’t be surprised when father of said kid you just sunk your knee into comes over and puts you in a coma. I wouldn’t be.

It’s like this ant – little kids do not have forsight of consequences. They have not lived long enough yet do develop those thought patterns. Same reason children will chase a ball onto a busy roadway as the only thing they are focused on is the ball.

You as the adult should be able to either step out of the way or cushion kid as they run into you. What you are suggesting is simply assaulting a child. You are the lowest kind of pond scum.

Nyssa76, if you can control a full shopping trolley with one hand and a stroller with the other more power to you. I have trouble controlling those trolleys with two hands.

The solution, as outlined before, is to stick the kid in the trolley, which, like most parents I do. I’m not whinging about sticking my kids in the trolley and I really don’t know what your problem is. Why don’t you build a bridge and get over it? Why should you care whether I use a trolley or a stroller to go shopping with? Sheesh! Get a life!

I love you too, BerraBoy68!

: )

If kids are barrelling around, crashing in to people, I make sure that when/if they barrell into me, my knee is coming up at around the same time. As they’re flying into the dog biscuit display, I hope they’re reflecting on smashing into people being a REALLY bad idea, before they do it to an old lady with crap bones.

I evaded detection by umpires in hockey for years, I figure the handlers of such children have no hope. wouldn’t it be nice if they raised their kids?

nyssa76 said :

Granny, when your husband’s at sea and you have noother choice but to do it yourself. It really isn’t that hard.

Nyssa, sounds like you husbands is a sailor. Is he merchant, Pusser or simply just likes getting out fishing in a boat a lot? As an ex-sailor I agree with you. More power to mums who’s husbands work away a lot. I know I respect my wife all the more for her efforts.

Granny said :

Kids have a right to be in the world. It is necessary for children to be exposed to experiences such as shopping if they are to learn and develop important life skills. There are rude, ignorant children and rude, ignorant adults. Most children I know are wonderful people.

I love you granny.

Kids these days eh. I was nailed to the school walls, had to hop from lesson to lesson and when I ran away I got five miles before I was caught by the school leopard.

If parents won’t admonish their children in public then they deserve to have those children shouted at by others.

Granny, when your husband’s at sea and you have noother choice but to do it yourself. It really isn’t that hard.

Most children I know are good and I hope they will turn out to be good adults.

As for whinging, the solution is much more simple, build a bridge and get over it or don’t subhject yourself to such a situation. It’s simple logic.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

I suggest, though, that simply because parents aren’t smacking their kids doesn’t make them ‘do-gooders’.

It was more directed at people saying that their of parenting by not smacking is and should be the only way of parenting. It should be and always should be as you described, parents finding what works for disciplining their children. Parents shouldn’t have to live in fear of going to jail for giving their child a couple of smacks on the bum. Maybe then we’d actually see some parents with the ability to control their children at the shops.

Hells_Bells748:51 pm 16 Apr 09

Agreed MWF.

PS2 gone for a week has worked a treat round here too.

Agree with the count to three rule, with my kids probably never getting to three. No fun!

We used to have a naughty chair in the naughty corner, way before that stuck up, childless Supper Nanny put hers on the tele.

As the kids are too big for the naughty chair these days, I have reverted to what we had to do in school. They sit in the naughty corner (that space behind the front door, kwim?) with HANDS ON HEADS. For as many minutes as their age in years.

A fortnight ago both were “grounded” which means they couldn’t visit their friend a few houses down the road; both had their Nintendo DS systems confiscated for a week and both were banned from using the computer for a week.

action = consequence, works for me.

screaming banshee said :

I can only guess that you are a stakeholder to one of the groups identified and took much greater exception to the comments made than should ever be taken in an online forum.

Not such a good try. The old if your upset about others being put down it must be because you too deserve to be put down. So what should unworthy I do now that you have outed me?

screaming banshee said :

What I still dont understand is what you found so noxious about FC’s post.

So it’s OK as long as you bring your kids up so that they aren’t a nuisance at the shops but OK to give them the attitude that other people can be denigrated and that it’s fair to be judge them and describe them as “bottom of the gene pool”.
You’ll have brought up children with nice manners when it suits) and very nasty attitudes.

screaming banshee said :

I can only guess that you are a stakeholder to one of the groups identified and took much greater exception to the comments made than should ever be taken in an online forum.

nyssa76 – presumably eating while standing on your head can be done as well. Why would anyone want to?

I have done the trolley and stroller thing also after a fashion and would never attempt it again. If you choose to that’s your business. Don’t call me a whinger for using the obvious facilities provided to solve an obvious problem.

I’ve also tried internet shopping. It’s almost, but not quite, as good as sending my husband. No thanks. Also time consuming and painful. I would do it if I was recovering from an injury perhaps.

Kids have a right to be in the world. It is necessary for children to be exposed to experiences such as shopping if they are to learn and develop important life skills. There are rude, ignorant children and rude, ignorant adults. Most children I know are wonderful people.

screaming banshee3:29 pm 16 Apr 09

BerraBoy68 said :

You’ll be right, ‘nutbag’ status is bestowed for consecutive posts

Seems I’ll have to try harder in future

screaming banshee said :

Given I’ve reached five-post nutbag status on this topic I’ll leave it at that before johnboy puts me in the naughty corner.

You’ll be right, ‘nutbag’ status is bestowed for consecutive posts

screaming banshee, is there a limit to the number of posts? the nutbag reference is to a number of consecutive posts, not how many times you post….

screaming banshee2:33 pm 16 Apr 09

monomania said :

screaming banshee said :

I suspect FC and I are missing your point. Now perhaps you’re further up the pile and those at your level understand but I really cant get my head around what you’re trying to say.

Don’t put words in my sentences. You’re the one with the concept of being below some in a pile and above others who you regard as stealing your oxygen. You jumped in with your bullshit about what was or wasn’t PC after I took offense at a noxious post from FC who earlier had not wanted to be unfairly judged by others but then did exactly that, describing some people as ‘bottom of the gene pool parents’ buying ‘dead’ food (and later as plebs). So enough with the false humility.

Mono, I don’t recall putting words in your sentences. Merely acknowledging that I myself may be flawed in not understanding your meaning.

What I still dont understand is what you found so noxious about FC’s post. I can only guess that you are a stakeholder to one of the groups identified and took much greater exception to the comments made than should ever be taken in an online forum.

Given I’ve reached five-post nutbag status on this topic I’ll leave it at that before johnboy puts me in the naughty corner.

I much retold family story is that my father and a neighbours child were playing (at about age 5 to 10), when the neighbour bit my my father. My grandmother, normally quite a conservative woman (this would have happened in the late ’50s or early ’60s), told him that if he was going to bite people, she would bite him back – and proceeded to do just that. Upset child then ran home and tells his mother what happens, and gets a smack for telling lies!

🙂

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:56 pm 16 Apr 09

I will stick to the nasty laundry, with the grumpy old cat. no fun at all in the laundry…

We use a spot in the hallway near the laundry, where he can see us, but can’t see the TV or his toys. If he moves we know and put him back. Works a treat.

There was a big chat on smacking in another (US-based) forum which was remarkably sensible and well-mannered for these types of discussions. What I found really interesting was that the posters fell firmly into two camps – those who had been brought up with violence and anger and who thought that it was NEVER acceptable to hit a child; and those who had been brought up basically with love but the occasional smack (even given unfairly) and these people were quite comfortable raising their children the same way.

And neither side could see the other’s point as reasonable – the “sometimes” people thought “never” was way too silly and extreme, and the “never” people thought that it just wasn’t possible for anyone to stop at “sometimes” and that smacking always caused damage to kiddies.

Unfortunately, everyone agreed you probably shouldn’t go around smacking other people’s kiddies. So yes, I get my grocieries delivered, landing in my kitchen every payday. It is the BEST THING in the whole wide world.

I will stick to the nasty laundry, with the grumpy old cat. no fun at all in the laundry…

peterh said :

why punish a child by putting them in their room? all their stuff is there…

Ahhh Grasshopper… it works for use ‘because’ the toys are there! They have to sit on their bed not playing with their toys for a full 5 minutes. If they move off their bed to get a toy or we even see a toy moved or out of place they get another 5 minutes.

Its not ‘Supernanny’, but it works.

when we go shopping, we usually frequent a store like the coles in chisholm that has the twin child carrying apparatus attached to the front of the trolley. the 3yo in the trolley seat, the twins in the child carrier. we just have to fend off the attempts to gain items off the shelves by 2 kids, as one cannot reach. makes shopping more fun. (for us), not the kids…

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Agreed Sepi. It depends on the person doing the smacking (ie are they a sensible and sober parent, or someone beating the crap out of their 11 year old cos they’re angry).

As I said earlier, smacking seems to work for some but not others. It would be a sahme to take the option away from those for whom it works.

smacking is reserved for really bad behaviour, or something that we deem life threatening. we don’t smack all the time, but if the child decided to stick something in a power socket (we use socket covers, they aren’t open at all in our house)they will usually try to remove the cover first. That will get them a smack. anything that they do in the general day to day gets time out in the laundry. not their room, but in the darkened smelly laundry.

why punish a child by putting them in their room? all their stuff is there…

My best mate’s Dad said to us one night over a few beers, “lads, to drive a car you first need a licence, but any idiot can have kids”. He lft it at that and a truer word has never been siad.

I have two boys and I am overly concious of their behaviour in public. I will not tolerate them misbehaving when in public and they know it. As for others peoples kids, I tend to agree with some of the posts here, if you are brought up that way yourself, you tend to teach the same lessons to your kids (back to my quote at the top fo post). There’s no easy answer here, but certainly if someone else’s child does something directly to me or my family while out and about, I will have no hesitation in making apoint of it either to the child or their parents.

Hells_Bells7411:51 am 16 Apr 09

I can be a smacker for sure. But last year I realised my son was terrified of me. He also insisted I not smack him anymore (he’s almost 6 now). I said I would stop smacking when he would start listening. So I worked on no more smacks and he worked on obeying his mother and it’s working slowly and I haven’t had to smack this year once. I don’t smack my older daughters anymore, except the odd slap on the arm. When they are little and have no reasoning or use it rarely smacking is quick and effective, but way too easy to lose one’s temper, especially after raising a few others you think you would have it downpat and you suddenly feel lack of control, which somewhat comes back to you when you are standing over them smacking, but ALL kids are different and respond to different things. Your job as a parent is to figure this out and apply it and prepare your children for the public eye.

Failing that, step aside and let well meaning folk put your kids in their place.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:14 am 16 Apr 09

Agreed Sepi. It depends on the person doing the smacking (ie are they a sensible and sober parent, or someone beating the crap out of their 11 year old cos they’re angry).

As I said earlier, smacking seems to work for some but not others. It would be a sahme to take the option away from those for whom it works.

Smacking is an interesting one.

I don’t actually think there is anything wrong with a smack or two, although I don’t do it myself (sorely tempted sometimes.) I do think belting older kids hard is a bit more suspect.

But research in Sweden has shown that since they legally banned smacking, less kids have died of being bashed by their parents. I was amazed – I wouldn’t have thought that giving a toddler a tap on the bottom was related to maniacs killing kids, but apparently it is.

I think if smacking is banned, out of control parents might be less likely to start off by ‘disciplining’ their naughty kids, and just lose it and hit them too hard.

I still don’t think I’d ban it if I were KRudd tho…but it is an interesting question.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:08 am 16 Apr 09

Friend of my sister’s kid once kept jumping up trying to grab my sunglasses. I told him not to but he thought it was funny. Then he actually managed to grab them, so I ankle tapped him and he fell in a heap while trying to run away.

Problem solved.

Hells_Bells7410:03 am 16 Apr 09

Many moons ago when pregnant with my first child a friend had started visiting me again frequently and she had a 2 year old daughter (not talking, still grunting). Because her first baby had died in tragic circumstances she was very precious and hadn’t learnt the basics of manners or discipline, yet.

When her daughter persisted with playing with my vinyl/cd collection, I was getting hot under the collar and started to voice my frustration at my friend, who was doing nothing. She said with a shrug of the shoulders “Well.. I can’t get her to stop, you’ll have to”. Hmmm, really? I thought. I didn’t have a damn clue what to do and told her I didn’t. Didn’t matter, she was having little part of it.

So I ballsed up, got up, removed her from my records (pryed them from her) and said a firm “No”, had to do this probably three/four times. She then decided the television and video were fresh meat. So I repeated the process eventually settling on the television being her thing to touch, but not turn off. Well.. I was getting exhausted by that stage (was pregnant). In one sense I was glad she gave me the ‘stick’ to bear in my own home because we didn’t have too many dramas that weren’t fixed my way in the future, but I knew never to look to her Mum, some people just don’t have it in them, only losing their temper only when it’s directly affecting them.

The other classic with that kid. She belted me once in my friends house and she loved to belt all my other friends that came into contact with her at the mall or whatever (so I later observed) and I just turned around with reflexes and belted her back. Her mother cheered me and said “Well, that was the best way to handle that”. My friends on the other hand, used to cop it and then whinge and moan about it everytime for weeks after. She never hit me again.

I have no problem whatsoever people giving a growl to my kids if needed. Thankfully, it doesn’t have to happen too often, but can really help at times. Much anticipated thanks if you ever have to.

Shopping with kids is horrific. I can’t imagine trying to do it with more than one. Or with a pram and a trolley – I’d rather just not eat basically.

I’m a lot more tolerant of bad behaviour now I am in the kiddie world myself. Sometimes you just know a child is a hair’s breadth away from a screaming frothing tantrum, and you will ignore minor bad behaviour in order to get thru the checkout and out the door before said meltdown occurs.

Of course not everyone apparently ignoring rudeness/grabbing etc is in that situation, but you just never know.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:53 am 16 Apr 09

Sorry about the double post – the second one seems to have the typos fixed! Not sure how that even happened…

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:53 am 16 Apr 09

It’s the old my parenting is better than yours argument, normally from the do-good anti-smacking people. What it comes down to is different things work for different children. Some children can be well disciplined with naughty spots, some need a smack on the bum, some need things confiscated. It should be a personal choice of the child’s parents (within reason of course), the psychological harm is more than likely just as great whether you give little johnny a smack on the bum or deprive him of his most treasured toy.

Horses for courses. Young Master Berlina has had his share of smacks, but they don’t seem to work to modify his behaviour effectively. The naughty spot works brilliantly, so we use it rather than smacking now.

We initially had trouble getting him to stay there, but one day just persisted and persisted and persisted and … (well, you get the point), and now when placed on the naughty spot he just sits there and cries for his 3-4 minutes. When we come to get him I get a tearful “sorry daddy”, and then all is ok again.

For other kids, smacking probably works well. I suspect when the boy gets a bit older depriving toys and privilege will work also.

I suggest, though, that simply because parents aren’t smacking their kids doesn’t make them ‘do-gooders’.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:52 am 16 Apr 09

It’s the old my parenting is better than yours argument, normally from the do-good anti-smacking people. What it comes down to is different things work for different children. Some children can be well disciplined with naughty spots, some need a smack on the bum, some need things confiscated. It should be a personal choice of the child’s parents (within reason of course), the psychological harm is more than likely just as great whether you give little johnny a smack on the bum or deprive him of his most treasured toy.

Horses for courses. Young Master Berlina has had his share of smacks, but they don’t seem to work to modify his behaviour effectively. The naughty spot works brilliantly, so we use it rather than smacking now.

We initially had trouble getting him to stay there, but one day just persisted and persisted and persisted and … (well, you get the point), and now when placed on the naughty spot he just sits there and cries for his 3-4 minutes. When we come to get him I get a tearful “sorry daddy”, and then all is ok again.

For other kids, smacking probably works well. I suspect when the boy gets a bit older depriving toys and privilege will work also.

I suggest, though, that simply because parents are smacking their kids doesn’t make them ‘do-gooders’.

BB :P~

The evil b!tch came out in me this morning – I hadn’t had my morning “cup o’ joe” when I posted.

Feebles, I have manouevered a trolley and a pram around a supermarket. It can be done.

I was just tired of the ‘whingers’ – hence my first post this morning.

nyssa76 said :

Here’s an option for those who are either complaining or extolling the virtues of children in trolleys – order your groceries/shopping online, have it delivered to your house and give yourselves the mental break you’re screaming for.

But… but… shopping is the only time I get to interact with other grown-ups outside of work and the home. Please don’t take that away from me…

He actually loves the supermarket. It’s an interesting place for him. He says hello (multiple times) to lots of the other shoppers (he seems to favour grandmotherly types for this but that may just be the time of day we go shopping) and more often than not they say hello back. He’s very happy to just sit there, watch everything and be pushed around. The only mischievous thing is making a play for the EFTPOS machine. Eventually he may turn into a tantrum-throwing WANT IT NOW menace, and if he does I imagine Dad will do more of the shopping. Until then, we will continue happily on our way.

Here’s an option for those who are either complaining or extolling the virtues of children in trolleys – order your groceries/shopping online, have it delivered to your house and give yourselves the mental break you’re screaming for.

#58 +1.

#65 +1.

I thought #57 must have been a troll as there is no way someone could be that clueless, surely? He was wrong on so many levels. In addition to the existence of a child seat in the trolley, there’s the insane logistics of trying to manouevre a trolley and a pram around the (potentially crowded) supermarket at the same time. Then there’s the question of how many babies he sees in trolleys wearing only a nappy, without outer garments. And any potential germs would be on the INSIDE of the nappies seeing as how they are non-porous if they are to have any chance at being functional. It must have been a deliberate windup.

#52 is exactly why I do use the trolley although he is capable of walking himself. What he is not capable of is staying next to me just yet unless I’m holding his hand.

I must say my first child had a tantrum in a supermarket, I just walked away, she soon followed, she was not two at the time, never did it again, but my three were really well behaved, even in the car whilst driving, and they were still silent even in their late teens when driving, as I warned them if they distracted me while driving, I would stop the car and they would have to walk home

someoneincanb said :

… I can only assume the products are placed at child level in order to entertain them whilst they wait. I feel no responsibility to pay.

or you could train your children not to touch stuff that doesn’t belong to them. If i damaged any property my parents would clip me around the ear, not go “well it’s your fault for putting it there”. Perhaps we should put all shelves 5″ off the ground to suit you.

The first problem is that you were shopping at the hyperdome, close distance to all of canberra’s finest trailer parks.

Felix the Cat it is not possible to push a stroller and a shopping trolley at the same time.

There may be room for some grocery items in a carry tray attached to a stroller but not enough to do a full shop. This is why a mother might find it necessary to carry a child in from a carpark, place them in allocated space in trolley, do her shop, and push trolley full of child and groceries back to car before strapping said child inside.

If you have found faeces in your trolley I suggest you contact management. I have certainly never found it to be a problem in my three decades of shopping experience.

Seeing decently behaved kids in public is becoming a rarity these days. They seem to be allowed to treat the public world as their loungeroom, thus making the use of those shared places less enjoyable for others.

These kids are being raised to fail by their parents. These kids will encounter opposition, they will not understand how to deal with other people, they have no manners, and already you can see society becoming ruder and noisier as more and more badly raised kids turn into the adults we see behaving badly.

I-filed said :

Folks, it isn’t a bogan/bylyndy thing. Terribly MC hippy boho 40-going-on-23, sarong clad former inner north alternative cafe owner was at the entrance to IGA Lyneham last year, and her two kids (old enough to behave) were behaving atrociously, getting in the way of customers, yelling etc, really putting on a show. I expected her to admonish them, but she was smiling benignly and proudly at them, clearly expecting an “awwwwww” from fellow patrons.

Oh oh oh, I just fell victim to your IGA reference.

My local IGA (down south) has lots of very attractive young women working as checkout checks. All of them are very, very polite and welcoming. Nothing is too much trouble for them.

However, the owner of said IGA has his daughter work there as a checkout chick on the weekend. I have never come across a young woman so sullen and so rude in my entire life. If her father knew how rude she was to customers and how “spoiled brat” she acts toward the other, hopefully properly employed checkout chicks, he would be ashamed.

Some kids need a great big kick up the pocket money.

screaming banshee said :

I suspect FC and I are missing your point. Now perhaps you’re further up the pile and those at your level understand but I really cant get my head around what you’re trying to say.

Don’t put words in my sentences. You’re the one with the concept of being below some in a pile and above others who you regard as stealing your oxygen. You jumped in with your bullshit about what was or wasn’t PC after I took offense at a noxious post from FC who earlier had not wanted to be unfairly judged by others but then did exactly that, describing some people as ‘bottom of the gene pool parents’ buying ‘dead’ food (and later as plebs). So enough with the false humility.

Folks, it isn’t a bogan/bylyndy thing. Terribly MC hippy boho 40-going-on-23, sarong clad former inner north alternative cafe owner was at the entrance to IGA Lyneham last year, and her two kids (old enough to behave) were behaving atrociously, getting in the way of customers, yelling etc, really putting on a show. I expected her to admonish them, but she was smiling benignly and proudly at them, clearly expecting an “awwwwww” from fellow patrons.

someoneincanb10:07 pm 15 Apr 09

Thanks Special G at #37 for your comment. My children are well behaved, no question about it. They know what discipline is. However, if I am left standing in a queue at the supermarket checkout, and said supermarket think its a wise idea to place chocolates at child level right beside the queue and expect customers to wait lengthy periods, I can only assume the products are placed at child level in order to entertain them whilst they wait. I feel no responsibility to pay. I don’t leave chocolate at child-accessible height in my house, and believe the supermarket should know better too, they have far more children walking through their doors every day than I do.

I want to live in Berraboys house – time in my room sitting on my bed is what I need!!

Igglepiggle said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Three words: The Naughty Spot.

Put Young Master Berlina on the naughty spot for 3 minutes and he is heartbroken – cries his eyes out. So much more effective than smacking (which we’ve tried) it’s just crazy. If we’re out, I just nominate a spot as the naughty spot. It still works!

HOw do you get him to stay on the naughty spot? Master Igglepiggle just refuses to stay- and after you’ve put him back about 20 times you’ve forgotten what to original infringement was anyway, and are so exhausted yourself, you just want to go there yourself for 5 minutes respite.

It’s the old my parenting is better than yours argument, normally from the do-good anti-smacking people. What it comes down to is different things work for different children. Some children can be well disciplined with naughty spots, some need a smack on the bum, some need things confiscated. It should be a personal choice of the child’s parents (within reason of course), the psychological harm is more than likely just as great whether you give little johnny a smack on the bum or deprive him of his most treasured toy.

The do-gooders above are pretty much the reason why there are a lot more feral children just allowed to run about and cause mayhem. The number of parents who try and stop little johnny or jemma by saying “don’t do that or mummy will be angry” in the softest most loving voice possible, then give up when they don’t listen is sickening. I personally can’t remember ever getting one firm warning before there was trouble.

Anyway, most of the time I will look at parent with disgust when little feral is running around like a little monster in the supermarket. I will on occasion say something if said feral is causing a danger or going to break something. I don’t blame you for saying something to the little feral on the counter, and would have said something back if feral mother abused me.

screaming banshee9:27 pm 15 Apr 09

Felix the Cat said :

Feebles said :

Have to steer the seat part of the trolley way away from the EFTPOS machine.

I thought shopping trollies were for GROCERIES, not for children. Prams are for children not old enough to walk. I don’t want germs (or worse) from little Johnny or Mary’s nappy in the trolley that I will be putting my food in.

I’m going to make an educated guess that you don’t have kids Felix. Lets put it this way, did you ever wonder why that fold-out shelf you put your bread in has toddler leg sized holes adjacent.

Felix the Cat9:20 pm 15 Apr 09

Feebles said :

Have to steer the seat part of the trolley way away from the EFTPOS machine.

I thought shopping trollies were for GROCERIES, not for children. Prams are for children not old enough to walk. I don’t want germs (or worse) from little Johnny or Mary’s nappy in the trolley that I will be putting my food in.

I will admit to something very embarrassing, for me, not the then recalcitrant 2.5 year old – he enjoyed the entire show, I’m certain.

The then 2.5 year old kept running away from me in the local shopping centre. I warned him and warned him and warned him. I told him that if he did not stay with the pram and myself and his baby brother I would buy him one of those kid leashes to tether him to me. I told him it was like a dog leash.

So, he bolted, again. I marched into the chemist and bought a kid leash. Attached child to the kid leash. He then walked with me for a bit until we were in a very public area of the shopping centre. Then he commenced barking like a dog, panting like a dog and crawling on his hands and knees, like a dog.

That is when I gave up. I picked him up under my arm, got us all into the car and went home.

nyssa76 said :

The difference is that in order for it to be affective, one must actually give a ‘consequence’ when it is first broken.

Except for quibbling over the spelling of “effective”, I agree. The people who have the worst behaved crotchspawn or other pets seem to be totally ineffective with delivering a consequence for unwanted behaviour.

screaming banshee8:49 pm 15 Apr 09

monomania said :

FC said :

Um… don’t really want to get into “my genes are better than yours”
‘retarded’ parents
I, however would imagine one that lives off their land to be far more advanced than some of the plebs seen wandering the foodcourt or the supermarket aisles.

Hole.

Rapidly digging.

Leaving aside the religion and secular humanism remarks because I think its starting to get a bit far OT.

I suspect FC and I are missing your point. Now perhaps you’re further up the pile and those at your level understand but I really cant get my head around what you’re trying to say.

nyssa76 said :

To those who doubt the counting to 5 strategy, it works for my own children (14, 9 and 6) as well as my teenage students.

The difference is that in order for it to be affective, one must actually give a ‘consequence’ when it is first broken.

Nyssa, you’re oh so right!

@fabforty – Not sure you’d find too many parents who would disagree. I know I don’t. My wife and I avoid taking the kids on the weekly shopping exped as much as possible.

I was foolhardy enough to brave Coles in Gungahlin last thursday afternoon. I have never seen so many feral children running around like it was a school playground, while parents remained completely oblivious. I actually waited to see if one particularly “precious” 5 year old and her brother were going to bring down the Easter Egg display by playing hide-and-seek in and around it. I was sadly let down – so much for basic laws of physics.

I’m sure, though, that these parents would be the first to scream the place down if anything happened to their darling progeny or someone such as me looked sideways at them.

I know kids must be kids, but there is a time and a place. A busy supermarket aint it !

To those who doubt the counting to 5 strategy, it works for my own children (14, 9 and 6) as well as my teenage students.

The difference is that in order for it to be affective, one must actually give a ‘consequence’ when it is first broken.

MWF said :

What works with my children when they start acting like brats in a public place is this:

I use my best ever impression of my infants school headmistress, Miss Sharp – very scary, especially with the surname of Sharp. To my own children, I say VERY LOUDLY: “If you two DO NOT STOP THIS RUBBISH I will have no choice but to embarrass you way more than you are embarrassing me at this moment in time, GOT IT!”

Scares the crap out of them. After such public scoldings, I have on occasion, received high fives and approving winks and nods from other shoppers/members of the public.

I like this MWF. It brings to mind an urban legend from the Hyperdome of a mother whose child refused to stop throwing a tantrum. The mother simply lay on the ground hitting and kicking the floor while pretending to cry. Apparently the kid shut up quick smart and looked on both shocked and silent. Oh what I’d give to have the guts to do this!

What works with my children when they start acting like brats in a public place is this:

I use my best ever impression of my infants school headmistress, Miss Sharp – very scary, especially with the surname of Sharp. To my own children, I say VERY LOUDLY: “If you two DO NOT STOP THIS RUBBISH I will have no choice but to embarrass you way more than you are embarrassing me at this moment in time, GOT IT!”

Scares the crap out of them. After such public scoldings, I have on occasion, received high fives and approving winks and nods from other shoppers/members of the public.

poptop said :

I’m betting that Britney is actually a Family Day Care child.

Her parents are probably Branch Heads or consultants.

I imagine Britney is already enrolled at the Montessori school.

What the…? Did I miss something that enabled that leap of logic?

I’m a consultant and that’s so far from my own experience it ain’t funny.

She’s probably already there if she’s 10.

I’m betting that Britney is actually a Family Day Care child.

Her parents are probably Branch Heads or consultants.

I imagine Britney is already enrolled at the Montessori school.

FC said :

Um… don’t really want to get into “my genes are better than yours”
‘retarded’ parents
I, however would imagine one that lives off their land to be far more advanced than some of the plebs seen wandering the foodcourt or the supermarket aisles.

Hole. Rapidly digging.

Igglepiggle said :

HOw do you get him to stay on the naughty spot? Master Igglepiggle just refuses to stay- and after you’ve put him back about 20 times you’ve forgotten what to original infringement was anyway, and are so exhausted yourself, you just want to go there yourself for 5 minutes respite.

Superglue. but that opens up another can or worms…

Seriously though, you make a good point. The naughty corner/chair is a good option and we’ve used it ourselves. It just doesn’t work for us when we’re out of the house. At first it took a lot of patience, just to get the kids to stay there (it’s easier to train a dog) but after a while they got the hang of it. Now they sit in the naughty spot (it now moves depending on what room I’m in) with their hands on their heads. That’s for mid range offenses though like swearing or throwing stuff. For serious offenses at home time in their rooms sitting their beds generally works. Repeat offenders still get a smack on the bum.

monomania said :

FC said :

I hate the fact that people would look on and judge me for being a bad parent, when they are not my children, and if they were I would imagine would not behave in such a manner.

FC said :

I would suggest the bottom of the gene pool parents belong more in the supermarket (or the food court!)buying dead food and I would rate higher the parents would plant veggies in their garden to feed their families..
Don’t know about the running chickens bit though..

So you get to judge the worth of others. You would appear to be more considerate of domestic animals than your fellow man.

I suppose you consider that your genes are better than many others’.

Um… don’t really want to get into “my genes are better than yours”
my second post, as you have quoted above, was a clear response to post number #15 that seemed to be saying to me that growing vegies in your garden and farming animals was something the ‘retarded’ parents should be doing. I, however would imagine one that lives off their land to be far more advanced than some of the plebs seen wandering the foodcourt or the supermarket aisles.

Not really sure how I am being more considerate of a domestic animal than my fellow man though..

with Hillary Clinton on this – it takes a village to raise a child.

but it takes a child[ish mentality] to raze a village.

sorry – dad joke. but i am a little with the OP on this, and so with her serene highness senator clinton – i see no reason not to pull up others for their public display of rudeness and thoughtlessness, such as folk what drop litter when a bin might be near by (and when one is not!), etc… kid’s gotta learn somewhere, might as well be an upright riotous citizen like weeziepops. or me.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Three words: The Naughty Spot.

Put Young Master Berlina on the naughty spot for 3 minutes and he is heartbroken – cries his eyes out. So much more effective than smacking (which we’ve tried) it’s just crazy. If we’re out, I just nominate a spot as the naughty spot. It still works!

HOw do you get him to stay on the naughty spot? Master Igglepiggle just refuses to stay- and after you’ve put him back about 20 times you’ve forgotten what to original infringement was anyway, and are so exhausted yourself, you just want to go there yourself for 5 minutes respite.

I’m with Hillary Clinton on this – it takes a village to raise a child. She probably meant we’re all meant to be supportive and co-operative and stuff; but I think it means that we are under a positive obligation to shriek at, or wallop, erring minors. I’ve started telling teenagers to pick up their litter, and I totally use my scary voice at toddlers in public places.

Bit by bit, I’m turning into the mad cat-owning granny (no offence, granny) that nature intended me to be. If what some kid is doing is dangerous, stupid, or antisocial – taking into account their apparent age – then I say speak on up.

@WP80. Probably shouldn’t have opened a toy shop then.

I think you have to be careful. Often you don’t know all the circumstances and it can be hard enough to be a parent without being judged by people who think they know but don’t.

I have told other people’s kids off – usually if they are threatening my children but once I just had a gutful of listening to this child go on and on and on at his mother about how he was the most depressed kid in the world, and nothing she could do would make him happy.

When I couldn’t stand it anymore I told him he was an ungrateful brat and had no idea what his mother did for him and just to shut the hell up.

His mum was grateful for the support, but it was still awkward.

I have to say that nothing stresses me like having to admonish somebody else’s child. I feel very shaken afterwards.

There are times when I would have really appreciated a Skidbladnir around in the supermarket.

When you are a single mother, and there is nobody around with a deep, sobering voice, it can be so exhausting. You can be sitting there crumpled on the kitchen floor with your eyes glazed over while the three of them are doing a mini ‘Lord of the Flies’ around you, or a rock-star-in-a-hotel-room number, thinking, “I’m too tired to care. I haven’t had a full night’s sleep in four years. I can’t keep up. I can’t cope. And I can’t not cope either. There’s nothing left in there to give anymore. There’s nothing left to take. To hell with it.”

I use the count to 5 thing on belligerent drunk adults all the time. Works like a charm.

I take little people shopping all the time. I try to stop them trashing stores although they like displays at little people height. Most stores try to market to that by putting things that kids like etc.. at checkouts or at heights they can grab them. If they get trashed their problem I say.

WP80 said :

So glad someone posted about this – I am a Canberra shopowner and horrible children and oblivious parents are the bain of my existence!

Most parents just DO NOT CARE what their children do in my shop – climb on shelves, play with stock. Occaisionally they will thrown in an obligitory “don’t touch anything / get down”, but with no real meaning behind it.

I have seriously considered a “no children under the age of 12” sign for my shop door.

I would also love to see “kid-free shopping times” at all major shopping centres! Now that would be heaven!

What goods do you sell? And please don’t sy a toy shop!

Of course you could always open a porn shop. You won’t see any kids in there then.

Thats what happens when you get too PC and ban smacking!

So glad someone posted about this – I am a Canberra shopowner and horrible children and oblivious parents are the bain of my existence!

Most parents just DO NOT CARE what their children do in my shop – climb on shelves, play with stock. Occaisionally they will thrown in an obligitory “don’t touch anything / get down”, but with no real meaning behind it.

I have seriously considered a “no children under the age of 12” sign for my shop door.

I would also love to see “kid-free shopping times” at all major shopping centres! Now that would be heaven!

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:17 pm 15 Apr 09

Three words: The Naughty Spot.

Put Young Master Berlina on the naughty spot for 3 minutes and he is heartbroken – cries his eyes out. So much more effective than smacking (which we’ve tried) it’s just crazy. If we’re out, I just nominate a spot as the naughty spot. It still works!

screaming banshee said :

Well I know I would, and I also know I’m not the top of the pile either.

Is it un-PC to think that there are people out their stealing my oxygen

It has nothing to do with political correctness.

It has everything to do with the pile. The pile of humanity.

If we don’t have religion we can at least have secular humanism which involves kindness to others. The reason why we help unknown people by donating to charities and bushfire appeals, volunteer in the community and believe in a fair go.

Do you really believe that others have the right to look down on you banshee and feel you’re stealing their oxygen.

I would love a dollar for the number of times I’ve seen a parent start to count to 3 or 5 or whatever and they repeat the number 1 about six times and then give up because the child takes absolutely no notice.

Woody Mann-Caruso1:56 pm 15 Apr 09

I saw a kid playing up once. You can be sure the entire Internet got to hear about it straight away. It was a nice distraction from whining about somebody not getting a VR.

Pommy bastard1:46 pm 15 Apr 09

weeziepops said :

Pommybastard – what was the response to your wise counsel?

An indignant huff and storm off, dragging recalcitrant child behind her like a balloon in a breeze.

screaming banshee said :

monomania said :

I suppose you consider that your genes are better than many others’.

Well I know I would, and I also know I’m not the top of the pile either.

Is it un-PC to think that there are people out their stealing my oxygen

your oxygen?? I have 3 kids. it is all mine!

screaming banshee1:29 pm 15 Apr 09

monomania said :

I suppose you consider that your genes are better than many others’.

Well I know I would, and I also know I’m not the top of the pile either.

Is it un-PC to think that there are people out their stealing my oxygen

BerraBoy68 said :

weeziepops said :

Count to five? Luxury! I only ever got the threat of three – mind you, I was so terrified of what might happen after three that I always behaved in such a way as to avoid the count down.

What happens if, after a five has been issued and a forcible removal implemented, the child is still naughty? Do they get taken home, spanked or is there another count down and a second go?

Personally, I am fearless – so I have no objection to smacking my kids on the bum (now wait and see how some Rioters react to that). Better yet, if they are expecting a treat the prosepct of actually getting it typically dissapears into the ether.

I have to agree, the fear of the loss of the treat / toy / whatever is usually enough to settle them down, but we use the timeout system as well. when we return from the shop / park / wherever, they are sent to the timeout area. (we usually cut short the excursion and return home, if it is an event that the child has been looking forward to, this usually has the desired result) The twins have a knack for being behaved out and about, but that is due to their sister being punished in front of them – I think they are learning by association…

FC said :

I hate the fact that people would look on and judge me for being a bad parent, when they are not my children, and if they were I would imagine would not behave in such a manner.

FC said :

I would suggest the bottom of the gene pool parents belong more in the supermarket (or the food court!)buying dead food and I would rate higher the parents would plant veggies in their garden to feed their families..
Don’t know about the running chickens bit though..

So you get to judge the worth of others. You would appear to be more considerate of domestic animals than your fellow man.

I suppose you consider that your genes are better than many others’.

experieince – isn’t that the new spelling of experience …

I have 4 and they mostly behave themselves. It takes a lot of effort and repetition but it must be done. I have “assisted” other parents in their efforts only a few times and when it did happen it was well deserved and usually graciously accepted. I can’t see anything wrong with other members of society helping (appropriately) to raise children and teach them what is acceptable to society.

Having 14 years experieince as a teacher I also have some great voice tones and facial expressions that get the message across …

Back when I carried facial hair I kept getting asked by mothers out at the shopping centre with kids if I could tell off their child, which originally struck me as strange but apparently is quite effective.
(ie: Her: “Excuse me, can you tell my child to stop (screaming about wanting a ride in the machine\asking for toys\smashing his car into his brother)?”
Me: “Oi. Do as your mother says.”
Cue fearful obedience from said child)

I have no (known) kids, but have no problem with directly telling off other peoples kids (over waist height) if\when they shit me.

Ten years old is definitely old enough – that piece of context makes a big difference.

weeziepops said :

Count to five? Luxury! I only ever got the threat of three – mind you, I was so terrified of what might happen after three that I always behaved in such a way as to avoid the count down.

What happens if, after a five has been issued and a forcible removal implemented, the child is still naughty? Do they get taken home, spanked or is there another count down and a second go?

Personally, I am fearless – so I have no objection to smacking my kids on the bum (now wait and see how some Rioters react to that). Better yet, if they are expecting a treat the prosepct of actually getting it typically dissapears into the ether.

Count to five? Luxury! I only ever got the threat of three – mind you, I was so terrified of what might happen after three that I always behaved in such a way as to avoid the count down.

What happens if, after a five has been issued and a forcible removal implemented, the child is still naughty? Do they get taken home, spanked or is there another count down and a second go?

I would suggest the bottom of the gene pool parents belong more in the supermarket (or the food court!)buying dead food and I would rate higher the parents would plant veggies in their garden to feed their families..
Don’t know about the running chickens bit though..

Deadmandrinking12:14 pm 15 Apr 09

It sounds as if it may just be the case of an overworked mother and a child at an adventerous age. From my experience of my younger half-brother and nephews/neices – I can’t imagine what it’d be like having to look after them 24/7. I’d snap.

Also, I personally nearly gave my mum a heart attack on more than a few occasions with my little-un shenanigans. Highlights of these include climbing onto a high roof, stealing a smoke from a handbag and having a munch on it and a few weeks later, helping myself to a refreshing drink of laundry liquid. She was a good parent, it’s just that certain ages bring about rotten behavior and there’s only so much energy a parent can have (what they do use up is impressive).

The best thing you can do when they are misbehaving in public is say something. I think it probably helps the parent.

Seeing as the idea of childhood is to learn and grow, I don’t think kids have to be perfectly behaved little souls all the time, especially when exploring the world outside the home. That said, the parents should control the boundaries and act when their kid crosses the line.

If one of my kids climbs on a counter, table etc.. (they are 5 and 7) I’ll tell them once to get down. If they fail to act I engage the fearsome ‘count to five’ and if they still haven’t acted on or before ‘5’ they are forcibly moved and admonished. I would likewise have no problems telling other kids how to act when necessary. Some parents, especially mothers, have even appreciated this when they are out with several kids and at their wits end. All it should take is firm voice.

I would also state, however, that I believe telling off another parents kids should be a last resort, especially if they are not known to you. Some parents will take it as a personal slight on their parenting skills rather than as a on-off incident. If another adult castigated one of my kids and I didn’t think it was justified or if the telling-off was too extreme, then I reserve the right to tell said parent exactly where to get off.

One day some little out of control child will catch their head on my shopping basket at a supermarket. Come close so far a few times as the little *5H1T scampers around the isles without a care from their parents.

My parents made me stay beside the shopping trolley when in a supermarket (not so long ago at all. Children should be managed this way).
I’m tending to think that these retarded parents don’t deserve to be in a supermarket. They should be ploughing their backyard to plant veggies and running chickens, a cow and pigs to feed their families.
Pernicious primitives.

Feebles – this child was around 10. In my view (and, as you rightly say, I do have all the answers), this is old enough to know how to behave in public.

Pommybastard – what was the response to your wise counsel?

With 6 or more children, i’m thinking this kind of arrangement may work:
http://www.clarkson.edu/news/photos/dogsled.jpg
Good excercise for the kids, and they can carry the shopping too.

My reaction depends on how old Britney is. Very young toddlers are essentially wild animals. You watch them like a hawk 99.5% of the time but eventually something else does require a moment’s attention (interacting with the Subway helper would be one such example). I only have one almost 18 month old, and he is fascinated by the EFTPOS machine at the supermarket checkouts too (all those awesome buttons). Have to steer the seat part of the trolley way away from the EFTPOS machine. I find it hard to imagine trying to corral 6. With one you can carry him or have him in his stroller. No idea what you do with 6. But YOU seem to have all the answers, Weeziepops.

neanderthalsis11:27 am 15 Apr 09

chewy14 said :

I think some sort of leash should be compulsory when walking your children in public places.

My sister was berated by a fellow shopper for having her son on a leash while shopping. (he’s a usually well behaved chap, just likes to run and hide from mum)

Some folks have very liberal ideas of discipline for children, can’t say that it does the kid much good later in life though.

Pommy bastard11:27 am 15 Apr 09

In situations like this, where a parent has abdicated responsibility, I think it only fair and just that I should have my say.

“If your ill behaved brat stands on my foot once more, I shall kick him so far over the horizon his voice will have broken by the time you get him back”

Stated to grossly obese woman, whose grossly obese son, had taken to pushing back and fore past me in Wollies in Kippax.

screaming banshee said :

Idiocracy…the only worthwhile part of the movie…

Brawndo, the Thirst Mutilator. Its got what plants crave!

screaming banshee10:40 am 15 Apr 09

@Very Busy, your post reminds me of the opening scene in Idiocracy, so true and to be honest the only worthwhile part of the movie.

chewy14 said :

I think some sort of leash should be compulsory when walking your children in public places.

lol

Bear in mind that the kid might not belong to the women.
Plenty of times when I am out with public with children (through my work), they exhibit behaviours that are embarrassing at best. I cannot discipline the child (am not allowed to), and can only really guide them and ask nicely for them to listen to my request. This request often goes ignored.
I hate the fact that people would look on and judge me for being a bad parent, when they are not my children, and if they were I would imagine would not behave in such a manner.

These kids would have chewed through a leash. Maybe some sort of enclosed carrier on wheels…

I think some sort of leash should be compulsory when walking your children in public places.

Inappropriate10:28 am 15 Apr 09

If the child’s behaviour is directly affecting your use or enjoyment of public space, them by all means say something; otherwise, just keep it to yourself.

I understand your frustration, but I think it is only appropriate to admonish other people’s kids if they are directly impacting on you/your kids/your property (in this case, if it was your Subway store under attack). Mere annoyance at the kid’s/parent’s poor behaviour doesn’t justify getting involved in other people’s shitty parenting and ultimately it won’t have any effect. That said – it is really hard to resist the temptation to discipline feral children and I have occasionally lapsed.

I’m generalising here but Britneys mother was probably a little brat of a child too. Britneys children in the future will probably be brats of children too. Parenting skills passed down through the generations!!! This as well as the low intelligence factor are a big part of this problem. Not much we can do about that.

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