28 November 2010

Why Public Transport will never catch on

| TenPro
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There are many problems with public transport that could be resolved with a reasonable amount of effort and expense. However, there is one major problem that would take several generations, a great deal of political will and the expenditure of billions of dollars to fix.

I am going to use Action buses in Canberra as an example to prove my point.

Those that could be fixed with a reasonable amount of effort and expense include:

  • Suburban buses that are often very late or very early.
  • Insufficient room and uncomfortable seats.
  • Lack of seat belts (Who is the bloody idiot minister?).
  • Insufficient buses.
  • The need to regularly stand.
  • Screaming babies.
  • Smelly people who use too much perfume or deodorant, or have been drinking beer.
  • Air conditioning.
  • Very noisy buses caused by mechanical defects.
  • Buses that smell like a mechanical workshop and make the patrons ill.
  • Rude bus drivers.
  • Bus drivers who drive illegally and dangerously.

Yes, all of these could be fixed with a reasonable amount of effort and expense.

Now, I have spoken to many people who have given up the use of public transport, as I have, and we all agree that the one major problem that would take several generations, a great deal of political will and the expenditure of billions of dollars to fix is the poor quality of a large percentage of the bus travelling public.

The key concepts here are the lack of respect and consideration for the law, for people and for property.

Of course this is the inevitable consequence of decades where we have seen the slow and so far inexorable dismantling of morals and values in our society that continues today.

So what specifically am I talking about here?

I am talking about:

  • Swearing.
  • Yelling.
  • Aggressive behaviour.
  • Rude behaviour.
  • Vandalism.
  • Loud, inane and often very personal conversations between passengers, often inches from your ear.
  • Loud, inane and often very personal conversations on mobile phones often by several people at a time all over the bus, often inches from your ear.
  • The infernal ringing of mobile phones all over the bus.
  • The playing of loud music on personal players (the audiologist’s dreams have come true) often by several people at a time all over the bus.
  • Smelly people who either do not use enough deodorant, or have just finished a cigarette, or have dirty clothes on that have not been washed for some period of time.

I could go on but I think that you get the idea.

I, and the people I have spoken to that I mentioned before, are very tolerant people. We can tolerate the first batch of problems that I mentioned above, and much more, but when it comes to the poor quality people the deal is off.

On the day when the great majority of the poor quality people have gained respect and consideration for the law, for people and for property, I, and the people I have spoken to that I mentioned before, will happily go back to the buses, but not before.

This is why public transport will never catch on.

TenPro

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Public Transport “doesn’t work” because Canberran’s believe their own deluded fantasies that every other city on the planet is a “uninhabitable” nuclear wasteland and Canberra is a paradise on earth, with flowery meadows and rainbow skies and rivers made from chocolate where children laugh,dance and play with Gumdrop smiles and any doubt of the will of perfect Dear Glorious Leader Stanhope (Who was born atop of Black Mountain (which was foretold by a magical hummingbird), the tallest mountain on the planet and shot a 38 under par, with 11 holes in one, the very first time he went Golfing) will result in the total collapse of this paradise on Earth and this includes doubting our state of the art, perfect public transport system.

The truth is, Public Transport DOES WORK, it Works pretty fine in every city I have ever been too, public Transport in Canberra will not work, if we continue these deluded fantasies that Canberra is the pinnacle of civilization and nothing can be improved because it is already perfect.

ACTION bus service is terrible, For the past few days I have had the opportunity too host people who have never been too this city before and one of the very first things they complained about was the price and quality of Canberra’s oh so glorious public transport system. Now they already have a saying “Only in Canberra!” which is not being used in a positive light.

Make a usable system that the Public will support and maybe we will actually develop a Public Transport culture that will not just be filled with Meth addicts and High School Kids, Private Transport is simply not sustainable (I laugh at the “LETS INVENT GREEN ENERGY FOR CARS!” suggestions previously in the comments, seriously, go ahead, I’m sure 100% Eco Green Cars that somehow do not take up any Car parking spaces (Same technology used in Pokeballs or the Jetson’s car perhaps?) that do not need any subsidies too build) and most countries and places realize that Public Transport is the future (including our Dear Leader’s own reports, but then Dear Leader knows better than the so called experts!, I call for their execution for their insolence against Dear Leader!)

Regular Light Rail for busy routes + Bus services for lighter routes is the future of this city, if you are fighting against it, you are simply selling out any future for a sustainable transport situation for future generations (which seems to be the goal for you Baby Boomers in every other field anyway).

Perhaps the people on the bus with babies are taking them home? Or to the doctor. Or going to buy food.

Mr Gillespie said :

So — you’re either saying:

1. noisy activity in public (no matter how annoying or unpleasant) is OK

or

2. It’s OK if it’s a screaming, crying baby, but not OK if the noise is made by other means?

We have a very young infant and occasionally need to take him out in public.

Once he starts screaming it’s time to go home or somewhere away from people.

I’m completely with you on the screaming baby thing. The sound of a baby screaming can be pretty awful and I shouldn’t be inflicting it on others.

James-T-Kirk3:32 pm 01 Dec 10

A couple of years ago, there was a major timetable change.

The afternoon shift on Mix106 had a ring in, wanting feedback on how us listeners fely about the timetable.

I rang in, and told then that the timetable was the best one I had seen in years. It was convenient, and the buses went exactly where I expected them to go. They were very enthusiastic – many of the others who had rang in had been bitching and whining about the changes.

The lady on the radio was pleased, and she said “It sounds like you are on a bus right now” – to which I replied – “Heck no – I drive… Why on earth would I catch a bus..”

That got lots of laughs. But, when I next saw a mate of mine who is a bus driver he said “That wasn’t very helpful….”

I still smile when I remember that.

Option 2 pretty much sums it up, yeah.

What’s your point?

Mr Gillespie11:44 am 01 Dec 10

So — you’re either saying:

1. noisy activity in public (no matter how annoying or unpleasant) is OK

or

2. It’s OK if it’s a screaming, crying baby, but not OK if the noise is made by other means?

ezy10z said :

Mr Gilespie said:

“So, you’re saying it’s OK to have loud, irritating screaming babies in public???”

shall we well tell mothers to just stay home?? or maybe we can put some duct tape around the babies mouths???? any other solutions????

Those who grew up into loud, irritating screaming adults complaining about loud screaming babies certainly could have been smothered at birth.

Mr Gilespie said:

“So, you’re saying it’s OK to have loud, irritating screaming babies in public???”

shall we well tell mothers to just stay home?? or maybe we can put some duct tape around the babies mouths???? any other solutions????

This point:
“Suburban buses that are often very late or very early.” … or fail to show at all.
This point is the main reason buses will never catch on in Cnaberra, because the fix, however easy, will not happen in our lifetime because the ACTION managers and politicians don’t catch buses.

•Swearing.
•Yelling.
•Aggressive behaviour.
•Rude behaviour.
•Vandalism.
•Loud, inane and often very personal conversations between passengers, often inches from your ear.
•Loud, inane and often very personal conversations on mobile phones often by several people at a time all over the bus, often inches from your ear.
•The infernal ringing of mobile phones all over the bus.
•The playing of loud music on personal players (the audiologist’s dreams have come true) often by several people at a time all over the bus.
•Smelly people who either do not use enough deodorant, or have just finished a cigarette, or have dirty clothes on that have not been washed for some period of time.

lets institute the death penalty for these offences.

Buy a scooter.

colourful sydney racing identity3:44 pm 29 Nov 10

TVStar said :

la mente torbida said :

IT’S CALLED PUBLIC TRANSPORT BECAUSE … IT’S FOR THE PUBLIC!

Have you seen the ‘public’ in this town?

ACTION has to overcome the fundamental problem that I don’t like homeless people, alcoholics, people that stink bad, teenage girls who think “Brad” is hot, people that need to talk to their spouses about inane domestic crap on their mobiles, old people, the disabled, people who are not from Canberra and who are trying to go to Parliament House, buses from the Soviet Union, anything that the ACT Government thinks is good for me, and having loose change.

And you have to overcome the fundamental problem that you are a miserable misanthrope.

colourful sydney racing identity2:29 pm 29 Nov 10

joeyjojojuniorshabadoo said :

For maximum lulz, check out TenPro’s previous posts. In between writing these posts and scribbling off angry letters to the editor, he or she probably doesn’t get out much.

ah, thanks for the tip. Wow, TenPro must have been devistated when the ABC took BackChat off the air. $5 will get you $50 that every MLA’s office has corrospondence from tenpro filed under ‘looney letters from constituents – DO NOT REPLY’

la mente torbida said :

IT’S CALLED PUBLIC TRANSPORT BECAUSE … IT’S FOR THE PUBLIC!

Have you seen the ‘public’ in this town?

ACTION has to overcome the fundamental problem that I don’t like homeless people, alcoholics, people that stink bad, teenage girls who think “Brad” is hot, people that need to talk to their spouses about inane domestic crap on their mobiles, old people, the disabled, people who are not from Canberra and who are trying to go to Parliament House, buses from the Soviet Union, anything that the ACT Government thinks is good for me, and having loose change.

Inconvenience for me is the biggest killer for public transport. When I have caught the bus to and from work, the morning is usually ok – I can organise myself to be a my bus stop at a certain time, and its a 40 minute trip vs 20 driving, not great but ok. In the evening is the big problem – basically if I can get out to the bus stop by around 5.30 it’s ok and a 45-ish minute trip, but miss that and it becomes more like 90 minutes.

joeyjojojuniorshabadoo2:01 pm 29 Nov 10

For maximum lulz, check out TenPro’s previous posts. In between writing these posts and scribbling off angry letters to the editor, he or she probably doesn’t get out much.

Things have moved on, Grandpa, public transport is public for a reason. In some places, it actually works pretty well, eg Tokyo, Paris and Washington … just not so well here in Canberra!

PantsMan said :

A good crap is still a crap.

but it can be bliss… [oops, says too much]

I have a similar problem with public forums.

As a participant, I find myself subjected to swearing, YELLING, aggressive threads, loud and inane comments, and a general level of poor quality posts.

It’s a problem that will take several generations, a great deal of political will and the expenditure of billions of dollars to fix the poor quality of a large percentage of the public forum posts.

I, too, believe that this is one of the major reasons public forums will never catch on.

colourful sydney racing identity11:54 am 29 Nov 10

OP: I am so pleased that I do not have to sit on a bus with no talent arse clowns like you. Stay at home and stay away from the internet.

When they have a bus service that actually provides a decent service, then I will consider using it. I’d like my bus service to provide buses which depart and arrive on time, clean buses and buses that get me to my chosen destination with a minimal amount of fuss.

To the OP.. I think you need to go back to the stone ages ! Your complaining about the size of seats or air conditioning, people phones ringing, babies crying… etc. Actually it might be too hot and dusty for you back in the stone ages. How about a double insulated room so you cant hear any of the outside world !?

As for catching a bus. Luckily for me the time difference between driving and busing is about the same IF I can catch the expresso bus. I will admit it pisses me off when it comes early or late and the next one isn’t for anoth 20-30mins. But hey my $25.20 10 ride bus pass has so far lasted me 3 weeks (first validated on the 10th Nov). Compare that to $10+ a day in parking and then $50-$60 a week in petrol… ACTION FTW on value ! Besides on the bus I can put my headphones in and relax, at the same time i’m blaring my music too loud and annoy people like the OP

Mr Gillespie10:21 am 29 Nov 10

So, what you’re saying is, we just have to put up and shutup with the things listed in the alleged troll’s OP, or suffer through traffic and parking driving a car, or ride your bike* through the rain/heat/strong sun. (* Not advocating the riding of bikes on roads used for cars though mind you)

There is a serious problem when we have to have a heated debate about the hideous parking mess in the Parliamentary Triangle.

ezy10z said :

i have neva seen someone talk so much chit….

•Very noisy buses caused by mechanical defects.

you clearly know nothing about machanics…. there is no defects…. big engines make loud noises.

•Screaming babies.

please explain how you can fix this?? not let mothers and there babies catch the bus??

•Insufficient room and uncomfortable seats.

????? how overweight are you????? its a bus… not the first class section of a prestige airline.

So, you’re saying it’s OK to have loud, irritating screaming babies in public???

This is a problem that solves itself – as more people use public transport, the average quality of people will inevitably rise. Thus, the solution to low quality people on public transport is to raise parking costs and force better people to catch the bus.

I guess the ACT government are geniuses after all.

Very interested to know how either screaming babies and smells can be fixed with “effort or expense”?? Individual sound and smell-proof pods??

Poor quality people, hey? Angling for the Mully cup?

I’ve spent half my life on public transport. I agree that it is unlikely to be a first choice for people. I disagree with your reasons, though.

I think the biggest barrier is the massive inconvenience. On public transport it will take me (from door to door) something like and hour and a quater to get to school. By car? About 35 minutes, including parking time. No contest for most people. And frankly, I don’t see a solution for this problem. The bus or train, or light rail, can’t take people from door-to-door the way private transport can. By definition, there’s going to be big gaps at either end of your journey that you will have to walk or cycle thereby massively increasing the overall travel time. Similarly, public transport that doesn’t stop to pick people up is completely useless. They’ve got to stop, not only for red lights, but at bus stops. All those extra stops = heaps of extra time. They’ve got the excellent Red and Blue Rapid services with limited stops, but it’s still a damn sight slower than driving.

Your assertion that the problems with public transport can be fixed easily are based on the premise that the problems are in fact *your* problems, not those of public transport.

i have neva seen someone talk so much chit….

•Very noisy buses caused by mechanical defects.

you clearly know nothing about machanics…. there is no defects…. big engines make loud noises.

•Screaming babies.

please explain how you can fix this?? not let mothers and there babies catch the bus??

•Insufficient room and uncomfortable seats.

????? how overweight are you????? its a bus… not the first class section of a prestige airline.

la mente torbida8:28 am 29 Nov 10

I know it’s a troll … but I’ll take the bait …

Please excuse my yelling …

IT’S CALLED PUBLIC TRANSPORT BECAUSE … IT’S FOR THE PUBLIC!

You’re expounding for ‘Special/Precious’ Transport

Yeah, public transport was better way back when it was segregated between races! All been a downhill slide for society and public transport since then.

ConanOfCooma8:04 am 29 Nov 10

I agree: stinky, loud and abusive, drunk, baby mechanic bus drivers with iPods that bash people should not be allowed on buses.

Intelligent post OP.

You lost me at the “…inexorable dismantling of morals and values in our society that continues today.”

The thing about the rosy past… is that it wasn’t.

Tenpro has a valid point. Maybe he’s expressed it in a provocative way, but it’s still worth thinking about. I know a couple of women who won’t use public transport because of unpleasant experiences with their fellow passengers.

If travel on public transport is a consistently unpleasant experience, for whatever reason, then customers will avoid it. Some unpleasant aspects that tenpro mentioned, like dirty people, will be found no matter where you go, and there’s little that the transport provider can do about it. But violence, foul language, obnoxious portable sound systems etc can be dealt with, and should be.

arescarti42 said :

trevar said :

I don’t hold the same hope. Public transport is over-rated. It works in uninhabitable metropolises where millions of lemmings all travel in the same direction twice a day, but even in these places it doesn’t work without government subsidies. Public transport is not just unpleasant; it’s unsustainable.

And the amount of money and energy you want the authorities to blow on this, I don’t see why we can’t just make private transport environmentally sustainable and universally accessible. It would probably be cheaper as well as easier.

I just couldn’t pass this one up.

-Tokyo, Paris, Madrid, and other “uninhabitable metropolises” with highly effective public transport systems are consistently ranked as having the highest quality of life in the world.
-Public transport generally doesn’t run at a profit, but you’re nuts if you think that private transport isn’t massively subsidised.
-To make private transport universally accessable you’d need to subsidise a system of drivers for the millions of people who are to old/young/disabled to drive. And you think this would be cheaper?
-The reason we haven’t made private sustainable is because it is an unfathomably difficult task. If you knew of an energy source and a way to store it that is sustainable and is also cheap, then you’d be the wealthiest person on earth right now.

Back to the post, with the exception of smelly people, every point on that “unsolvable” list can be solved by a sign with some rules and a guy to enforce them.

With a responses like these, maybe citations aren’t such a bad idea.

I just don’t want to catch the bus because it’s crap. A good crap is still a crap.

Sunday, raining, stuck inside… definitely a troll.

Public transport has caught on – that is why you are stuck with standing room only, or right next to the feral teenage conversations.

It just needs to be provided on a much for frequent and reliable basis, and this will encourage more worker types and oldies to catch it, rather than just the young and feral and a few desperate commuters.

Less crowded buses are far more pleasant for everybody.

You can take a few of the proper reasons from the above rant and scrap the other 98% of the absolute rubbish.

Why people don’t catch buses:
* A bus network full of services that get you nowhere fast. If want to get somewhere you have the option of driving anywhere in Canberra and get there within 30 minutes. Alternatively, you can catch a bus or buses which will take the slowest most scenic route possible, are not scheduled to interchange with each other without waiting a significant amount of time and that will take you about 2 hours to get to your final destination.

* Buses that are not reliable. If you need to be somewhere at a specific time, you cannot put faith in the service to show up and get there in any sort of timely manner. You will get let down regularly.

* Insufficient number of services. Peak hour services that passengers are packed into buses like sardines and ultimately have to skip stops as the bus is too full.

Fix these things and people might actually seriously considering catching a bus.

I generally find Action bus drivers friendy and helpful. I have also used public transport in a number of other places around the world, and (shock horror), there were screaming babies, smelly people, standing room only and mechanical smells.

We have just returned from 18 months living in Vancouver BC (Canada) with regular side-trips to Seattle and San Francisco. Public transport in these cities works.

Almost all bus routes have buses coming every 10 minutes – there is no need to have a timetable. The Vancouver Skytrain (an elevated light-rail system) also runs every 10 minutes in off-peak times and every 5 minutes in peak times. It has no driver – completely computer controlled. The Vancouver Skytrain system recently celebrated their 1 billionth user (thats **billion**) with no fatalities or serious injuries. No other transport system can match that.

The buses and light rail are used by everybody, rich or poor, cheap (typically $2 for an adult ticket that lasts 2 hours) and clean. At the terminus of every bus or rail trip, a cleaning crew goes through and cleans it. The drivers are friendly, the ticket system is automated. The system is so good that for most trips around or into the city, you wouldn’t even consider driving a car – parking costs anywhere from $5 per half hour to $32 per full day.

Each year, the city levies a tax (similar to our rates) on each household in Vancouver. The tax bill is typically $2000 per year, and is itemised, showing what proportion of that money is spent on police, schools, public transport, roads etc. This gives everyone a sense of ownership of the system – people tend not to vandalise things they know they will have to pay for.

It works because everyone uses it. It does not require vast amounts of money – all it requires is a change in attitude by the public and our elected leaders.

Everyone on my bus is very happy with its service and timing.

I think the OP is just a precious little nob who lives in the ether, or more than likely in his Second Life, ‘cos his 1st one is bollocks

OpenYourMind6:10 pm 28 Nov 10

As pointed out by another poster here, this is the wrong question to ask. The correct question is ‘How can we get Public Transport to catch on?’. The answer of course is, people are naturally tight with money. Raise parking fees by enough and we’ll get more people walking, cycling and/or catching public transport.

This sounds like one of those people that would also say things like “I have black friends so I’m not racist”.

trevar said :

I don’t hold the same hope. Public transport is over-rated. It works in uninhabitable metropolises where millions of lemmings all travel in the same direction twice a day, but even in these places it doesn’t work without government subsidies. Public transport is not just unpleasant; it’s unsustainable.

And the amount of money and energy you want the authorities to blow on this, I don’t see why we can’t just make private transport environmentally sustainable and universally accessible. It would probably be cheaper as well as easier.

I just couldn’t pass this one up.

-Tokyo, Paris, Madrid, and other “uninhabitable metropolises” with highly effective public transport systems are consistently ranked as having the highest quality of life in the world.
-Public transport generally doesn’t run at a profit, but you’re nuts if you think that private transport isn’t massively subsidised.
-To make private transport universally accessable you’d need to subsidise a system of drivers for the millions of people who are to old/young/disabled to drive. And you think this would be cheaper?
-The reason we haven’t made private sustainable is because it is an unfathomably difficult task. If you knew of an energy source and a way to store it that is sustainable and is also cheap, then you’d be the wealthiest person on earth right now.

Back to the post, with the exception of smelly people, every point on that “unsolvable” list can be solved by a sign with some rules and a guy to enforce them.

georgesgenitals4:50 pm 28 Nov 10

Get orf my damn lawn!

%$#@ me. Give us a break.

There’s only one thing I cannot tolerate and that’s intolerance.

have to agree with trevar to a large degree. The destruction of car parking in the name of “encouraging” the use of public transport is incredibly shortsighted. More eco friendly personal transport is coming with some of it, such as scooters, short range electric vehicles and such is already here. Our ability to use these though is being restricted through the Local Government’s use of parking as a tax to shore up our tiny non-sustainable economy.

Is your IQ somewhere in the name you use? Troll +1…

Walk.

Tenpro, if you’ve given up on public transport, why do you care whether it catches on or not? I suspect you haven’t really given up at all, but hold out some glimmer of hope that someone will invest both money and social capital in making the upgrades you think are necessary.

I don’t hold the same hope. Public transport is over-rated. It works in uninhabitable metropolises where millions of lemmings all travel in the same direction twice a day, but even in these places it doesn’t work without government subsidies. Public transport is not just unpleasant; it’s unsustainable.

And the amount of money and energy you want the authorities to blow on this, I don’t see why we can’t just make private transport environmentally sustainable and universally accessible. It would probably be cheaper as well as easier.

And you’re not tolerant. You can’t write a list of things you won’t tolerate and then say you’re tolerant. If there is a list of things you won’t tolerate, the list itself is evidence that you’re intolerant. Not that I think any less of you for your intolerance: I don’t tolerate those things either; I have a car in which to be intolerant of them.

Oh my, we are precious aren’t we.

Suck it up or stay at home.

What’s that stuff that people who work with dead bodies put under their noses? TenPro needs that and some industrial ear plugs.

Cretin.

eyeLikeCarrots2:27 pm 28 Nov 10

basketcase said :

This has to be a troll, hasn’t it.

Its a troll or someone who needs to rediscover their youth again.

tenpro – I think you best buy a car, or a bike, or move.

What you’re looking for is a taxi. Unfortuntalely, they don’t cost three bucks a trip.

This has to be a troll, hasn’t it.

It might not catch on willingly, but the ACT Guvment are eventually going to force people onto the inadequate system of buses through their continued assault on increasing parking fees.

TenPro:

I think what you’re after is not a bus, but a heavenly bubble you can catch to your mysophobic paradise.

“I, and the people I have spoken to that I mentioned before, are very tolerant people.” Bollocks.

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