Woden Babar Discriminate Against Transgenders

DarkLadyWolfMother 30 May 2009 137

I’ve just had my last meal at Babar in Woden, a place I used to frequent for a breakfast on the weekend.

I’m a male to female transgender and have been living as a female 24/7 for some number of years. Over these years I’ve been using Women’s toilets.

Today I was told by the owner (or manager, I don’t know which) of Babar that I wasn’t allowed to use the Women’s toilets.

I attempted to explain I was transgendered; but she told me that didn’t matter.

What’s curious is that ever since I’ve been going to Babar, when I’ve made use of their toilets I have always used Women’s toilets; and this woman (owner/manager) has been present some of those times.

I should note that I’ve never had a problem with any of the staff. They’ve always been friendly, helpful and efficient.

I’ll be writing Babar a formal letter of complaint at the least.


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137 Responses to Woden Babar Discriminate Against Transgenders
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Jim Jones Jim Jones 2:37 pm 01 Jun 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

JJ – I don’t think there is necessarily an issue automatically connecting violent bigots with transgender issues like this, to me they are separate.

But violent bigots don’t generally see much a difference between ‘poofs’ and ‘trannies’. Of course it is connected – just because we know the difference doesn’t mean that ignorant bigots (I’m aware this is a tautology) will draw the same fine distinction.

jessieduck jessieduck 2:34 pm 01 Jun 09

chewy14 said :

jessieduck said :

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

Jessieduck,
then why do women have to go to the toilet in pairs?
We know you are talking about us men folk while you are in there.

Oh no, not I- I refuse to talk to anyone while I am peeing. Not even at home. Can’t do it.

Deadmandrinking Deadmandrinking 2:33 pm 01 Jun 09

Well said Jim Jones.

Note I also said ‘violent homophobes’ indicating that I was discussing homophobes who are violent.

That being said, I think that ‘people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships’ are ignorant fools. If that’s being discriminatory, well, f-k mate, what the hell are those people doing in the first place?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy 2:30 pm 01 Jun 09

JJ – I don’t think there is necessarily an issue automatically connecting violent bigots with transgender issues like this, to me they are separate.

I pulled DMD up for making the assumption that these ‘bigots’ are violent and ignorant (well, probably ignorant).

To my mind, automatically connecting the two and then making a value judgement is sloppy thinking.

chewy14 chewy14 2:20 pm 01 Jun 09

jessieduck said :

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

Jessieduck,
then why do women have to go to the toilet in pairs?
We know you are talking about us men folk while you are in there.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 2:18 pm 01 Jun 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Why? My point was simply that there are people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships, but that DMD implied that all such people were violent and ignorant. I disagree with that.

No he didn’t. He stated that the issue of homophobic attacks was germaine to the discussion, and then you went off on some tangent about “So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.”

It’s obvious that not all people who ‘dislike the concept of same sex relationships’ are violent (I find that the term ‘bigot’ is a lot quicker to use than this clumsy description).

It would be like me talking about green birds and you getting all pissy because not all birds are green.

jessieduck jessieduck 2:16 pm 01 Jun 09

How much interaction do you lot have in the bathroom? I go in, do my biz, get out, wash hands, leave- no interactions with anyone. No chatting, no sussing out if someone is transgender or whatever. I wouldn’t look twice at who is in there with me so maybe that is why I don’t care as much?

peterh peterh 2:14 pm 01 Jun 09

Mr Evil said :

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Great idea; until someone happens to leave the toilet seat up??????

remove the seat and just use the old public toilet last resort – the hover.

Mr Evil Mr Evil 2:10 pm 01 Jun 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Unisex toilets.

You know it makes sense.

Great idea; until someone happens to leave the toilet seat up??????

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy 2:04 pm 01 Jun 09

Why? My point was simply that there are people who disagree with the concept of same sex relationships, but that DMD implied that all such people were violent and ignorant. I disagree with that.

I’m not suggesting that violence or ignorance are good or acceptable.

Jim Jones Jim Jones 2:01 pm 01 Jun 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

Again with the uneducated judgements… So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.

That’s pretty poor thinking, even for a schoolkid like you.

As an impartial observer, I’ve gotta say: VY, you really are making yourself look like a complete ass at the moment.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy 1:56 pm 01 Jun 09

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

Again with the uneducated judgements… So all people who dislike the concept of same sex relationships are violent and ignorant, eh.

That’s pretty poor thinking, even for a schoolkid like you.

peterh peterh 1:53 pm 01 Jun 09

I am not going to bang on about my genetic disorder, but there are many people in canberra with this condition, and, for the most part, they appear to be feminine, not masculine in appearance.

Many become transgender reassigned as they are uncomfortable being a man with little or no body hair, larger than a normal male in the breast department, and other physical attributes usually associated with being female. the mental aspect has a big part to play as well.

I have HRT, so don’t exhibit many of these attributes. I am, however, only just starting to show signs of aging, and the hair loss I am experiencing is due to the hormones. My friends who have the condition and have reassigned may look female, but I still count them as my mates, regardless of their appearance. transexuals are, after all, still human beings.

Whatsup Whatsup 1:39 pm 01 Jun 09

kobez_outlaw said :

I can say in confidence that my girlfriend, or her sister, would not feel comfortable going to the toilet with a man who thinks he is a woman in there.

I would not be concerned about a transgender person in the toilets. There are separate cubicles FFS, its not like we are checking each other out at the urinal. I am sure blokes would have more of an issue if she was using the mens and I can understand she wouldn’t feel comfortable in that scenario.

neanderthalsis neanderthalsis 1:19 pm 01 Jun 09

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

Sorry, jessieduck, I missed your reply. I’d agree with you there. However, I wonder how many people would be ‘comfortable’ with them using the women’s toilets if their primary sex characteristics included the dangly bits; or the men’s toilets if they had breasts?

I think most men would feel rather uncomfortable if they were confronted by a transgender chap beside them at the trough.

It puts you in a rather awkward position DLWM. The ladies is probably the best option and where you’re less likely to stick out (pardon the pun), but I could see why some women would feel a bit uncomforatble if it were obvious that there was a man in the loo beside them.

Some transgenders are very convincing and you’d never be able to tell they actually are, but some are rather tragic.

DarkLadyWolfMother DarkLadyWolfMother 12:28 pm 01 Jun 09

Oh I agree about how little is seen, jessieduck. I was just bringing the comfort thing back to what’s been said here. It appears comfort isn’t always about what’s seen, but what people believe exists.

Deadmandrinking Deadmandrinking 12:24 pm 01 Jun 09

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

Terrorist Nazi Homosexual at your service.

You make me laugh. Especially when you get caught.

You were trying to catch me out with a ridiculous accusation, but you just made yourself sound stupid. Do you really think there is a culture of political correctness amongst violent, ignorant homophobes? These are people who bash people for display traditionally feminine characteristics…

DLWM, you should, in the 21st Century, be allowed to make choices about your own self and not be persecuted or excluded based on that. I don’t see how your choices impact on others in society. Plus, who the hell checks? Has anyone spared a thought for women who suffer from hormonal disorders and grow extra hair? You should look at possibilities with Anti-Discrimination legislation. Someone should take a stand in this matter.

The only standard there should be in a toilet is for people to flush and not leave sh-t all over the seats. Those people can die. Die horribly.

jessieduck jessieduck 12:18 pm 01 Jun 09

Gender really is a brain thing as much as it is about the genitals isn’t it.

As for your question DLWM, we don’t see any dangly bits in a ladies loo once the cubicle doors are closed and as for boobs in the men’s toilet… some men have bigger chests then me and it’s not as if you have to lift up your shirt to pee (well not that high anyways)

This is quite the thought provoking topic and I wish it was easier for people like you to be confident in your own choices without people like the owner of Babars questioning you. It’s about where you feel comfortable and it’s a shame she felt the need to stop you. My moral compass says she is wrong and you should be able to live your life as you choose because it’s not hurting anyone.

justbands justbands 12:14 pm 01 Jun 09

Breasts are welcome anywhere.

DarkLadyWolfMother DarkLadyWolfMother 12:00 pm 01 Jun 09

Sorry, jessieduck, I missed your reply. I’d agree with you there. However, I wonder how many people would be ‘comfortable’ with them using the women’s toilets if their primary sex characteristics included the dangly bits; or the men’s toilets if they had breasts?

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