As a followup to the story last week about a bashing at Woden Plaza being filmed and put on YouTube, News.com are reporting that police have caught the alleged perpetrators.
I do not envy whoever gets to deal with this one. The evidence may be messy before there can be any thought of a conviction. The level of public comment and repetition of the footage is a certainty to be argued as a reason that a trial would be unfair. Even if they’re guilty, sentencing is an appallingly difficult task.
I’m with Nyssa. If schools have failed, it is because the task they have is becoming more mountainously oppressive every day. They are variously expected to provide a traditional education, work readiness, occupation, sporting prowess, cultural enrichment and the social grounding that many parents neglect. The day isn’t long enough, and no teacher can have all the skills expected. External demands for “discipline” ignore the fact that many parents don’t care and a noisy minority treat as near-assault any suggestion that their children should conform to a standard of behaviour that may be expected in a civilised world. The demand for ludicrously generous grades is at a level where every child expects to excel (as do the parents), even if objective atainment is minimal. Bringing back a bell curve of failure would be a good start.
I wonder why anyone goes into the teaching business. Probably the reason some schools do better is that there’s at least some requirement for parental engagement with the school.
Also maybe some kind of statistics or at least a reason why you think Since the removal of corporal punishment from our schools, there has been a decline in the behavior of children and this is affecting their productivity as adults. might be nice if you want people to take your rant seriously?
Are you shitting me?
Go to a high school today. Go on do it. You have NO clear concept of what goes on in high schools in Canberra. I go in every day.
Behaviour and CONSEQUENCES for said behaviour are in decline. Parents actually giving a shit are in decline.
The fact that one of these ‘cherubs’ is 13yo speaks volumes for the parenting or lack there of in this case.
Never did me any harm and I got plenty of floggings at school.
Probably deserved most of them as well 😉
It really annoy’s me that some people who dont know any better try to tell people how to raise their kids. – Well just as long as you are not trying to tell other parents they should hit their kids that sounds consistant. It would be an odd school, with two groups one where parents have authorised the use of physical violence against their children and one where the parents havn’t. Imagine being on the ‘beat me with a stick list’ and the kid that always gives you shit isn’t! that would blow.
Anyone over 30 would remember when it was in schools and it never did us any harm in the long run. – That is a sweeping generalisation that many would not agree with. There are so many stories from the good old days about schools where the kids were beaten way too badly. How quickly we forget… Not that im over 30 i should probably add, but I do have enough personal experience with corporal punishment to know that Im really going to exhaust all other options before I even consider it when/if I have children.
yep, i’ve always thought that a good smack made me remember things better…
can someone just whack me with a baseball bat?… i got an exam in 5 mins…
Since the removal of corporal punishment from our schools, there has been a decline in the behavior of children and this is affecting their productivity as adults. I know that there will be some bleeding heart liberal who says that there are better, nicer, fluffier ways to deals with kids. I find that they are mostly barren, childless people who dont know sh*t from a sock.
It really annoy’s me that some people who dont know any better try to tell people how to raise their kids. If there was a way to discipline children that has the same impact then enlighten us.
Principal should be given the power to discipline kids as they see fit and what is deemed fit by the parents. letting kids know that they have done wrong and why it is wrongs very important. The smack is so they do not forget.
Anyone over 30 would remember when it was in schools and it never did us any harm in the long run. (Marist excepted)
So what are you suggesting?
When you say ‘restore some order into our society’ does that mean you think that right now there is no order whatsoever? Contrary to what some here might want you to believe, there are actually quite a few children around today that do not bash women at woden plaza, or terrorize adults on buses. We call these children ‘the majority’.
When you say that these things happen constantly, perhaps that means that this is one of those things that has always been there, and always will be. What im suggesting is maybe the problem isn’t as large and hopeless as some people believe it to be.
What do you consider meaningful deterrance? This is talked about often on RA. It is widely accepted that sending them to juvinile detention rarely has a positive effect, and more often than not actually increases criminal behaviour amongst the children that are sent there. Same for adult prison. So the courts system isn’t left with a lot of positive options Seemingly Either send them to juvinile detention, and almost guarantee a larger problem will walk out than what walked in, as well as almost guaranteeing future crime (and hence future victims), and the general destruction of the criminals life. Or go leniant, hope that community service, good behaviour bonds etc etc tide them over until these children grow out of it, if they grow out of it. Remember we are talking about children here, the humans are not completely developed.
One other point: When a person talks about how horrible a crime is and the person that perpertrated that crime is probably going to get away with it because they will claim that they have been on the recieving end of horrible behaviour in the past they are simultaneously saying that a crime is bad and will have major effects, and in the same breath seriously under representing, to the point of trivialising, the effects that crime has on victims. eg ‘they can pull the victim of society card’. What exactly do you mean by ‘victim of society’. I assume a person who has one way or another been on the recieving end of something awful eg abusive parents. How is it consistant to on hand be seriously upset about crime being commited, and extremely worried about the victim and at the same time be extremely hostile towards to purportrator of the crime, who as you suggest, is (or at least in a lot of cases is) a victim of society, someone that is themselves a victim of a crime that has happened previously? It seems you have scorn for the same people you were worried about previously.
I never suggested corporal punishment, there are more subtle and humane ways to discipline children and reinstate some order in to our society. It is widely accepted that the victimisation of the criminal and criminalisation of the victim has just got way out of hand. Read the posts above, I’m not the only one that believes a “slap on the wrist” is all these kids will need to fear. No doubt they can pull the ‘victim of society’ card and punishment (deterrance) be reduced significantly.
These sorts of horrific things are occuring constantly, here and in other cities I have lived in Australia. For example the teenagers who went nuts on an adult passenger last year sitting in front me – the ACTION staff just threw their hands up in the air helplessly and advised us that there was nothing they or anyone could do, as did the police I believe.
Meanwhile these kids are probably still travelling on the inter-town route armed with knives terrorising passengers, and all the closed circuit cameras in the world will do nothing.
So what do other people suggest we do to address this madness?
I am willing to place odds at 20:1 on these kids (and adult) receiving any meaningful deterrance (or punishment).
I feel for the police, it must be a *very* tough job, being absolutely powerless.
canberracafe: I dont understand why you think that in a country where ‘discipline’ is more widely accepted, kids ‘respect’ there teachers? I could understand ‘fear’ there teachers, but why on earth would a kid have respect for some bastard that beats them? Perhaps if there is respect for teachers, the respect is there for a completely seperate reason to the discipline? Some kind of cultural difference perhaps is the reason? Perhaps there are many and the beating of children by teachers is only a minor part, or actually a hindrance, but due to the other parts there still works out to be more respect?
Also don’t you think its a little odd to seemingly argue that because these two teenagers beat up a woman at woden interchange, corporal punishment should be brought back into schools?
A friend of mine works in Korea. Kids there respect their teachers, as discipline is more widely accepted. He started a teaching degree in Perth, and gave up after undertaking only a month of field placement, and went back to Korea. Teachers are not allowed to, or are too terrorfied, to discipline children in Australia. It’s not ‘politically correct’, criminals being ‘victims of the system’ after all. It’s all very nice to be philosophical about this sort of thing, but sometimes they just need a kick up the bum.
I blame working families for this kind of behaviour!
tee hee. ‘latte socialists’ coming from ‘canberracafe.com’
What caf said.
Oh yeah, I’m sure Socialism invented anti-social teenagers.
I wonder if it is the same little turds that harassed a poor Asian guy sitting in front of them on a inter-town bus last year. Inexcusable racism. One trashy girl was even playing with a knife at the time. Called the police, yada yada, nothing. Even though the trashy kids tried followed one of the other guys who reported them with me to his home one night.
Political correctness gone mad, thank you to all the latte socialists who created this mess.
They must be loving the attention and notoriety they’re getting. They’ll probably show up as intruders on Big Brother in a few years’ time (perish the thought that BB will still be around in 2-5 years….)
Loan these girls to Bill Henson for a weekend.
Punishment? The brutal slapping on the wrist they’re to get? Horrific stuff…
Its a shame that no one can post video of them recieving their punishment.
LOL. Thats hardly old. She is probably as trashy as the rest of the folk who hang out there smoking their filthy durries.
Well, that’s encouraging. Evidently some people came forward with information. The woman (she’s 36!) might be charged too. Causing public affray or somesuch, possibly.
What is the correct local term for a checked brushed cotton shirt?