Woden bashing teens caught

jennybel75 6 June 2008 133

As a followup to the story last week about a bashing at Woden Plaza being filmed and put on YouTube, News.com are reporting that police have caught the alleged perpetrators.


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tap tap 4:39 pm 10 Jun 08

I pointed you there to explain why i was using the term straw man. Apparently you missed it again. Sigh. (And you say that i am ignoring you…) Can you see the reason for the redirection? That pretty much everything you say I’ve already answered?

Do you remember that this opinion was passed off as a fact? However as long as this is the end of our enlightening chat I won’t bother again trying to explain my point of view. You disagree. Wonderful. I would ask why but that would be in violation of your right to hold ignorant, reasonless opinions. Your comment 116 was all inults except accusing me of not understanding the difference between a fact an and opinion, I really wasn’t going to bother with it. I guess i can go into it a litte: A fact is something that is verifiable. A reasoned opinion is a conclusion built using facts and reason. An ignorant opinion is a conclusion that is devoid of facts or reason.

Me changing the goal posts? From what to what?

Do you really think that a (non ignorant) opinion doesn’t have to be based on any kind of facts or reason to be valid? Thats interesting, so if I was of the opinion that I saw a dinosaur walking around last night, therefore there was a dinosaur walking around last night, would that be valid? Now ofcourse Im welcome to the opinion, but it is wrong, and would be ignorant for me to hold it without trying to reason out what the chances of me seeing a dinosaur last night really were, and whether or not something else could have accounted for what I thought was a dinosaur walking around.

We’re done? Thats a shame, it was such an enlightening chat too, from beginning to end. Do make sure you jump in again soon and bombast me with your opinion that my opinion is invalid because it is against someone elses opinion and as all opinions are valid my opinion cant be valid nevermind that your opinion is that my opinion is invalid and following your own opinions logic it would also invalidate your opinion because its against my opinion but its only an opinion and while it is an opinion that contradicts itself that doesn’t matter as its an opinion and it doesn’t need to make sense.

Spideydog Spideydog 4:07 pm 10 Jun 08

tap said :

Spideydog: You just don’t read what im writing do you? Read comment 105.

Where in my post (116) did I say anything about statistics….so why point me back there?

But because you have raised it again…. I raised the statistics point (earlier) even after you made the admission that they can be flawed because : whenver someone has an opinion different to yours, you dis them and tell them to prove it with stats, etc. This tells me that you put a whole lot of faith in stats, etc even though you contradict your self later by admitting stats can be flawed.

I can read very well what you have to say and it is apparent to me that it is you that ignores what people write and instead concentrate on putting all your energy into changing peoples opinions to align with yours, or redirect them back to previous posts that have no relevence to their last post, or change the goal posts to suit your argument.

Me and you are done in this thread. Oh and because I choose not to reply to your future insightful posts in this thread, does not mean that you have won the “argument”. But feel free to revel in your “fake” glory if you wish.

tap tap 3:30 pm 10 Jun 08

Spideydog: You just don’t read what im writing do you? Read comment 105.

Spideydog Spideydog 3:26 pm 10 Jun 08

Oooohhh name calling now tap, must have pressed some buttons then eh…straw man…very imaginative. For someone who likes to make himself look so intelligent and “learnered” you sure are imature.

You have no distinction between OPINION and FACT. I know exactly what you are saying and so do the majority of posters here, hence the flack you receive…oh but we are all wrong and all of us have misunderstood you tap…

Get out of your little tunnel vision, bubble world and join the rest of us in reality…

Got some more names for me tap ?? tinman perhaps or something else imaginative and we will all go live in the land of the wizard of Oz.

PBO PBO 2:57 pm 10 Jun 08

It makes me happy to see that i incited such a interesting debate.

dalryk dalryk 2:34 pm 10 Jun 08

I hereby declare everyone on this site to be a dickhead in their own way, myself included.

Now that we have established this FACT (for which no evidence will be provided, but you all know I’m right), can I suggest that people at least *try* to play the ball and not the man?

Tap writes like a douche at times, but asking someone to back up a broad sweeping generalisation with some tangible evidence is hardly unreasonable. Anecdotal evidence is evidence of nothing, and stats may be unreliable, but at least they can be assessed.

On the other hand, continuing to argue about one statement made 100-odd posts ago gets a little boring, so lets just accept that you’re all wrong and move on.

tap tap 1:53 pm 10 Jun 08

good point maelinar – how could anyone ever think you and vg are the trolls i wonder?

tap tap 1:52 pm 10 Jun 08

Spideydog: I never said reason is only derived from stats and research. straw man.

I agree that reason can come from carefully weighing up pros and cons. I have used this line of reasoning in a few threads now, about legalisation, about homosexuality not being a choice. Straw man.

I get the feeling you don’t actually know what im saying, because pros and cons don’t really fit into what is being spoken about. This is about the ‘fact’ that somebody brought up ages ago Since the removal of corporal punishment from our schools, there has been a decline in the behavior of children and this is affecting their productivity as adults. All i am saying is why does the holder of the opinion believe this? (I’ve gone into much more detail above, you can read more there). The opinion gave no source at all. I didn’t say it was wrong, I said it can’t be taken as true.

I have given sound reason why corporal punishment is just as innefective as any other form of punishment.

I respect peoples right to an opinion, doesn’t mean I respect the opinion itself.

About me leaving. umm… no. suck my balls.

I am free to scrutinise peoples opinions, and I am even free to come to the conclusion that an opinion has not been reasoned properly, hence is unreasonable. I am also free to ask for reasons why a person believes something, you would be surprised how often people hold opinions without any reason whatsoever. You are also free to start blabbering on about how horrible I am for asking people to give the reasons for their opinions like I am some kind of blasphemer for daring to question a humans sacred right to ignorance.

Mælinar Mælinar 1:51 pm 10 Jun 08

I hear your snap, of tap
tap, tap, snap, snap
tap snap, snap tap
tap talks crap, crap comes out of tap
tap crap, crap tap
crap means flap, flap flap flap
flappidy flap, flap flap flap

Spideydog Spideydog 1:36 pm 10 Jun 08

Tap: “Reason” can be derived from more locations than just stats and research…. fool.

ie, “Reason” can be a person that weighs up the pros and cons and then forms an opinion.

You can say you “would like the think this is the last of Spideydog” That is your opinion. I can respect that, can you of others…..no.

You have totally missed the point that most people have made here (shock horror) You want a “fact war” start up a thread of a “topic” with a disclaimer “FACT replies only please”

If you can’t repect people giving opinions that are derived from sources other than stats and textbooks, then bugger off and start your own blog for “un-ignorant” people. I’m sure the conversations here would be alot more productive.

You are free to “scrutinise” peoples OPINIONS, but telling them they wrong because they have no stats or evidence to back thier OPINION is just plain stupid and arrogant.

tap tap 1:26 pm 10 Jun 08

good point vg.

vg vg 1:23 pm 10 Jun 08

Snap

Tap

Crap

Flap

tap tap 1:17 pm 10 Jun 08

Spideydog: They can be flawed. As opposed to they always are flawed. Did you catch the bit about And it seriously does not mean that an idea without evidence should be taken as true, just because it is possible evidence for it might be faulty.? What im saying is, there should be evidence, and that evidence should be scrutinised for validity, see neaderthalsis point. Which is fairly consistant with what i always say. Remember the fact in question is something that is happening right now, not hyptothetical.

I’d love to say this will be the end of “spideydog: I don’t need evidence or reason to believe what i believe!” line of reasoning, but im sure it won’t be.

Out of curioisty, why do you never mention reason? and only ever stats when misrepresenting what im saying?

Spideydog Spideydog 1:11 pm 10 Jun 08

Nice try and proven tappy. You are the one that bleats for stats and then admit that they are or can be flawed…..You contradict yourself and then still say that you are right.

Oh well, this should be the end of “tap: prove me wrong by providing stats” arguments eh, if stats are and can be very often wrong, of your own admission……

tap tap 12:59 pm 10 Jun 08

neanderthalsis: yeah sweet, thought so. Just wanted to be sure. 🙂

tap tap 12:58 pm 10 Jun 08

Spideydog: Read the comment directly above yours for my thoughts on statistics. You trying to say that im saying stats are the ‘be all and end all’, is called a straw man argument, where you misrepresent what your opponent is saying, tear the misrepresentation apart, then conclude that the opponents real argument has been proved wrong. Nice try.

neanderthalsis neanderthalsis 12:57 pm 10 Jun 08

Tap, of course it was terrible logic, it was meant to be as such. I was suggesting that any fool can drag out one set of figures, compare it to another and come to some bizarre conclusions that appear to make sense.

Spideydog Spideydog 12:33 pm 10 Jun 08

@tap

“Opinion without reason is ignorant”

Where the hell do you think they get stats and research from m8…..from people in that field, that they are getting stats from….from thier personal experiences.

If you honesty believe stats as being the “be all and end all” then you my friend, are the ignorant one.

tap tap 12:06 pm 10 Jun 08

lol. Just to be sure you’re not seriously believing what you said in the second paragraph? I could start going into other factors, such as an aging population and the increase of women in the workforce that could account for it, but theres no real point to that is there? We would all agree that males would be the predominant recipients of the cane / ruler and since the moves to ban corporal punishment began in the early 80’s, by a process of deduction, less corporal punishment equals less workforce participation and less productivity from males. lol! Thats terrible logic! Well presented terrible logic though, i must say 🙂

Well, pirates are cool.

I do see your point though, thats statistics can lie. I totally agree with that. But that does not mean they always lie. And it seriously does not mean that an idea without evidence should be taken as true, just because it is possible evidence for it might be faulty.

Its interesting how quickly those who believe an unreasonable idea blame reason for inconsitancies in their idea.

neanderthalsis neanderthalsis 11:47 am 10 Jun 08

It is interesting how the uninformed so often clamour for statistics.

It is easy to show a statistical relationship between the decline in corporal punishment and the decline in workforce participation, over the period 1980 to 2005, the overall workforce participation rate for males declined from 78.3 to 72.1 per cent (productivity commission figures). We would all agree that males would be the predominant recipients of the cane / ruler and since the moves to ban corporal punishment began in the early 80’s, by a process of deduction, less corporal punishment equals less workforce participation and less productivity from males.

We can also draw the same deductions from the increase in property crime rates over the same period.

On a side note, it is statistically proven that the increase in world temperature attributed to global warming has a direct inverse relationship with the number of pirates in the world. The proof may be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FSM_Pirates.png

My point is, stats are easily manipulated, there arguements on both sides of the fence concerning the social capital benefits or detriment derived from corporal punishment.

A Canadian study, “A meta-analysis of the published research on the affective, cognitive, and behavioral effects of corporal punishment” examined the lasting pshycological and pathological effects on children exposed to moderate corporal punishment.

It reported that:

results of the present meta-analysis suggest that exposure to corporal punishment does not increase the risk to youth of developing affective, cognitive, or behavioral pathologies.

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