5 February 2009

World does owe you a living

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times brings the strange news that you can now sue the Government for being poor.

    “Dr Helen Watchirs launched a report yesterday on low-income households’ living costs, saying she ”wouldn’t be surprised” if evicted tenants aired their grievances in court should public agencies make it hard for them to meet the costs of living.

    Dr Watchirs said a legal challenge could be possible under an amendment to the Human Rights Act, which came into effect January 1.

    Under the Act, individuals can sue ACT Government agencies, or private companies providing public services, for infringements of their human rights.”

Just a matter of time before that bankrupts the ACT Government and we can close the circus down.

In other less earth-shattering news it turns out that people with less money spend more of it on necessities. Apparently someone got paid to come to that piece of the bleeding obvious.

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evicted tenants could air their grievances – and sue the government. when will this become a reality for the thousands of mortgage holders who go under even with the stimulus package?

surely the ability to sue everyone for your misfortune is your god given right?

must have moved to the US without noticing. suing seems to be the new form of communication these days…

hey tylers, I think that dexi has stopped, now.

tylersmayhem1:09 pm 17 Feb 09

By the way Dexi, I came across the following link that might halp you next time you’re out of cash and need to get by between payments:

http://www.mifact.org.au/free_meal_guide/documents/free_meal_guide_for_the_act_and_queanbeyan.pdf

Pommy bastard7:39 am 17 Feb 09

peterh said :

PB, selling one’s books is a pretty serious business, especially if they were collected over a period of years.

I fully agree, I collect the (signed) first editions of a certain author, and they are as valuable as gold to me.

dexi said :

PB just wants to deny me a car because I am on the dole.

And this is why no one takes you seriously Dexi, it’s because you lie. Can you show where I have, in any way shape or form, indicated I want to deny you a car? You cannot can you, as I have done no such thing.

Dexi’s identity is irrelevant. Please dont ask again. This is also not an invitation to argue with me.

the fact that you state “My lack of answers are meant to be vague” tells me a lot.

If you read through Dexi’s comments, s/he tends to let out little details every so often and then when pushed for info, another sob story comes out, such as “I had to sell my books to put petrol in the car to go and buy smokes”

dexi, i am not going to press for more info. the fact that you state “My lack of answers are meant to be vague” tells me a lot. apologies for putting you in a difficult position.

Oh, and Dexi, I never said cabs are cheap.

Please don’t twist my words around, and misquote me again. Thanks.

To clarify, if I had to decide, I would never choose to sell my books over my car.

dexi said :

Oh and Brad once again you show such poor judgement. Cabs are not cheap under any circumstance.

Cabs are not cheap, but when used sparingly, works out cheaper than a car. A car is at least $600 before it even hits the road.

And I think you’ve drawn the wrong conclusions.
I don’t care what TV shows you watch.
I don’t mind if you own a car, I’m just surprised you can afford one, after declaring how poor you are, and I’m shocked that you value a car higher than your books. If I had to decide, I would never sell my books.

That is not a reason to call me a politician.
Yeah, that was pretty harsh of me, wasn’t it. I apologize. You’re nothing like a politician.

What kind of car do you keep when your books no longer have a place.
I give in. What kind? An unregistered car. A car-toon? A car-ousel? Why so cryptic. To be honest, I don’t care. But if you can afford a car, don’t cry poor. Public transport and a cab is cheaper, just not as convenient.

My lack of answers are meant to be vague.
Why?

dexi said :

Oh and Brad once again you show such poor judgement. Cabs are not cheap under any circumstance.

dexi, could you answer my question? I would really like to know what work you were in prior to having to go on the dole.

Oh and Brad once again you show such poor judgement. Cabs are not cheap under any circumstance.

Now riddle me this. What kind of car do you keep when your books no longer have a place.

My lack of answers are meant to be vague. That is not a reason to call me a politician.

This runs to topic. Why would someone who is already vulnerable to hardship expose himself to the public, when he is only going to be ridiculed for existing? A court case can be very intimidating.

As shown here the public will draw all kinds of wild ideas about what a welfare person should be. What they should own. What they should watch on TV. If they even should own a car.

If the only way to raise welfare benefits is through the courts because the taxpayers are to cheap to do it. Then so be it.

Do you get that Brad or is it a riddle
Riddles. Some vague answers, then more riddles. You should write for an episode of Lost.

And based on Peter and PB replying before me, I’m not the only one who finds your (lack of) answers vague.

You sold your books before your car? A car costs you money just by it’s existence. Another riddle. It’s possibly cheaper to cab it around when necessary than to own a car (rego, petrol, insurance).

Pommy bastard said :

dexi said :

PB just wants to deny me a car because I am on the dole. To late. As anyone who has lived on welfare for any length of time will tell you keeping a car going is almost impossible. The bus is a very usable alternative if you live in a good spot.

I do not wish to deny you anything Dexi, you deny yourself enough as it is.

Do you get that Brad or is it a riddle why someone would sell their books.

It’s an easier way of making money than getting a job?

PB, selling one’s books is a pretty serious business, especially if they were collected over a period of years. I liken it to me selling my entire rocks and minerals collection, in order to buy food prior to my application for the dole being accepted. (last time, i was told it would take several weeks) To have to sacrifice personal effects to survive is pretty hard.

Pommy bastard1:56 pm 16 Feb 09

dexi said :

PB just wants to deny me a car because I am on the dole. To late. As anyone who has lived on welfare for any length of time will tell you keeping a car going is almost impossible. The bus is a very usable alternative if you live in a good spot.

I do not wish to deny you anything Dexi, you deny yourself enough as it is.

Do you get that Brad or is it a riddle why someone would sell their books.

It’s an easier way of making money than getting a job?

dexi said :

Look Brad, I can’t help it if you can not read the previous posts or the thread heading. Do I have to spell everything out. You might have already noticed my poor spelling and even poorer patients. Not to mention my sad sense of humour. But I will add untrustworthy and politician to the list of things people want me to be.

Its not rocket science or the CT cross word puzzle.

Peterh Sadly I have no reserves. As mentioned earlier I have sold my books.

Just for Brad I will now spell out the significant s of this. The last possessions you sell are your prized ones. To many of us this is the knowledge we hold in our book collection. They will have been collected over time and represent our own getting of wisdom. They may be rare and beautiful. Some may be hard to replace. They are worth cash that can easily be got. So when you need money and you are on your ass bones, out go the books. That happened for me before I went on the dole.

Do you get that Brad or is it a riddle why someone would sell their books.

dexi, what industry were you in prior to having to sell your books? you seem to be a pretty literate and knowledgeable person. What happened to you, that put you in this position?

Look Brad, I can’t help it if you can not read the previous posts or the thread heading. Do I have to spell everything out. You might have already noticed my poor spelling and even poorer patients. Not to mention my sad sense of humour. But I will add untrustworthy and politician to the list of things people want me to be.

Its not rocket science or the CT cross word puzzle.

Peterh Sadly I have no reserves. As mentioned earlier I have sold my books.

Just for Brad I will now spell out the significant s of this. The last possessions you sell are your prized ones. To many of us this is the knowledge we hold in our book collection. They will have been collected over time and represent our own getting of wisdom. They may be rare and beautiful. Some may be hard to replace. They are worth cash that can easily be got. So when you need money and you are on your ass bones, out go the books. That happened for me before I went on the dole.

Do you get that Brad or is it a riddle why someone would sell their books.

neanderthalsis1:44 pm 16 Feb 09

oops, you’re. Brain not fully functioning today.

neanderthalsis1:43 pm 16 Feb 09

It is brad. I think you can have up to $2500 in savings if your single, more parntered.

In which case, welfare should possibly be (liquid) assets tested, if it’s not already.

Reminds me of the parliamentarian that claimed he was going to live on the dole, many years back, to show how easy it was.

the “experiment” was abandoned when it was learned he was subsidizing his income with a rather large bank account…

maybe dexi has some reserves socked away somewhere. or not.

Live in Canberra……..own a car.
But apparently you own a car with cruise control. Even better, it’s a Porsche Cayenne. (btw, I doubt many of the unemployed would know that model.)

This is why I said you are misleading. How are we to know when you are telling the truth or not.
And before you say it was a joke, I thought you were initially joking about having a car at all.

It’s easier to take anything you say with a grain of salt, than to have to try and guess which is truth, and which is a lie.

dexi said :

Live in Canberra……..own a car. The exception would be not owning a car in Canberra. You could argue having just one car would make you the exception.

Dexi – you forgot to add petrol on your list of laughter, smokes and other people’s coffee.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:02 pm 16 Feb 09

I don’t know how I can be anything else but as stated.

In order to reduce further confusion, why specifically can you not work?

tylersmayhem1:01 pm 16 Feb 09

Are you sick or aren’t you?

…and are you Dexi?! Somehow I expect we’ll never get an answer to this!

I don’t know how I can be anything else but as stated. People seem to always have an opinion on what you should be.

At best misleading. how simple does it have to be.

Live in Canberra……..own a car. The exception would be not owning a car in Canberra. You could argue having just one car would make you the exception.

PB just wants to deny me a car because I am on the dole. To late. As anyone who has lived on welfare for any length of time will tell you keeping a car going is almost impossible. The bus is a very usable alternative if you live in a good spot.

dexi said :

Brad, I resent your assertions in the Lic. thread. I am exactly who I am, as written. I write from my experience as a local.

But you’re not exacly who you are, as written. You write in riddles. Do you drive a car, or don’t you? Are you sick or aren’t you? You lead people on with ambiguities, avoid answering pertinent questions, and without being dishonest (apart from the car statements), you are at best misleading.

Brad, I resent your assertions in the Lic. thread. I am exactly who I am, as written. I write from my experience as a local.

neanderthalsis11:24 am 16 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

Again Pommy Bastard displays his complete lack of knowledge of disabilities and mental illnesses, how they affect people and how they are regarded by the government.

Clinical depression, schizophrenia, autism – these are some of the many, many conditions which can make workplaces unbearable for sufferers.

Oddly enough, The recent changes to the definition of disability under the Disability Discrimination and Other Human Rights Legislation Amendment Bill (2008) in expanding what actually comprises a disability, has legal interpretations of a disability including having a genetic predisposition to a debilating disease or a drug, gambling or pornography addiction.

“I wonder whether just going ‘f-k it’ is a viable alternative.”

DMD Obviously not especially if you do not have an extended network of people to take up the financial gap. If you are looking for work signing on can give some support to your welfare. If you find jobs that do not work out or that are part time, its easy to declare them and still have access to some dole money.

I think people are wrong to think there is some lifestyle alternative on the dole. It occurs to me that some of the rhetoric is not actually directed at welfare but at workers who refuse to work. So people think they are justified in name calling. Yet its comes out about all welfare recipients. You should probably be slagging “work bludgers” and leave us dole bludgers alone.

Pommy bastard7:50 am 15 Feb 09

Most days I wonder that DMD, but we soldier on…

Deadmandrinking11:55 pm 14 Feb 09

It’s the other way, theBrad, the shrink thought I was 20% deaf, because my frequencies were between 20 and 80 (I think).

Well, to be honest Pommy-bastard, I’m currently looking for a job down here in Melbourne (looks like I’ll have to stack dishes and/or shelves once I move into the actual city), which seems to be a lot harder than in Canberra. On some days, I wonder whether just going ‘f-k it’ is a viable alternative.

Pommy bastard12:12 pm 14 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

Dexi posts on a forum. It’s not exactly technical and can be done from home. I wouldn’t put posting on Riot-Act as an indicator of a persons ability to work.

True, but don’t disable him/her further by overcompensating for the difficulties s/he may or may not have. Until Dexi comes clean we’re only speculating here.

CRS are also pretty useless. I fall under 51% disabled on the centrelink test due to mild to severe hearing impairment and some low muscle tone in my hands. It not much of a disability, really, I’ve only experienced small limitations in regards to certain jobs that require phone use. But I passed the disability test when I went to centrelink for help studying, which was also confirmed, now wait for this, by a PSYCHOLOGIST who at first determined I was only 20% deaf by reading the lower number of my hearing frequencies. I got told I could go to CRS, who I’d been to before when I was unemployed. Every time I’ve been to them, I’ve always gotten a job myself without their help. They can be useful if you wish to study but only as far as getting centrelink off your back while you do.

You have a very positive attitude towards your work ethic, if only Dexi shared it. (We do not know what disability, if any, Dexi has.)

Have you tried Work-ways in Braddon, they are better.

That’s just one example of the way Centrelink deals with disabled people. I’m glad that mine is only a minor hindrance and that I’m capable of finding and keeping jobs myself. I feel sorry for those who can’t.

I too feel sorry for those who cannot can’t, but respect those who do their damnest, despite disability.

So, if I read this correctly, DMD, you’re suggesting that it’s not that difficult to get a disability qualification from Centrelink, if you have a minor impairment.
And therefore, not be required to look for a job?

Deadmandrinking10:25 am 14 Feb 09

You can do what you like, Starscream. Don’t confuse trolling with a differing opinion.

Dexi posts on a forum. It’s not exactly technical and can be done from home. I wouldn’t put posting on Riot-Act as an indicator of a persons ability to work.

CRS are also pretty useless. I fall under 51% disabled on the centrelink test due to mild to severe hearing impairment and some low muscle tone in my hands. It not much of a disability, really, I’ve only experienced small limitations in regards to certain jobs that require phone use. But I passed the disability test when I went to centrelink for help studying, which was also confirmed, now wait for this, by a PSYCHOLOGIST who at first determined I was only 20% deaf by reading the lower number of my hearing frequencies. I got told I could go to CRS, who I’d been to before when I was unemployed. Every time I’ve been to them, I’ve always gotten a job myself without their help. They can be useful if you wish to study but only as far as getting centrelink off your back while you do.

That’s just one example of the way Centrelink deals with disabled people. I’m glad that mine is only a minor hindrance and that I’m capable of finding and keeping jobs myself. I feel sorry for those who can’t.

Pommy bastard7:55 am 14 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

Because, Pommy Bastard, some workers with disabilities or mental health issues require patient and understanding employers.

Yes, so why were we labouring under the impression that Dexi was incapable of any work?

I think when you said anyone who can use the internet as much as dexi can work you gave away the fact that you don’t seem to understand how disabilities can affect people differently.

Patently untrue. Anyone capable of using the internet to the degree that Dexi does, is capable of working to the capacity which Dexi shows us here, and as Dexi has indicated his/herself, s/he is capable of more than just this.

Many disabled people use the internet, not all of them can work.

Many disabled people work, not all of them are incapable of working. Many who cannot work want to work. The vast majority do not spend their time on the internet castigating those who do work, and claiming entitlement.

The link you provided, however is interesting. There are programs like this for people with many different issues. Not all of them work for everyone, though.

There are many more too, help is available out there.

http://www.crsaustralia.gov.au

http://www.work-ways.com.au

Finally, people do live longer than a month, so they could have had previous experience with the dole.

Sure, no problem with that.

But I’ll state the point that I am not, as you are, extrapolating the case of Dexi onto anyone else. I am only addressing Dexi and his/her postings here. I have a great regard for the disabled, and the majority of the unemployed. I do not like the disservice Dexi is doing them here.

Starscream said :

Deadmandrinking said :

Do you even know what trolling is?

Its you trying to pull my strings and make me dance for you( trying to get a reaction) and thats exactly what you are doing. So kindly please stop it becuase its not going to happen.

i thought it was throwing a bit of bait off the back of the boat with a hook and line attached, and waiting for something to strike. pulling strings to dance for you (i thought) was the act of a puppet master….

dexi can fit both categories here, but I still feel sorry for them, they appear to be very intelligent, however are missing out on contributing to society in any form except an online forum…

Deadmandrinking said :

Do you even know what trolling is?

Its you trying to pull my strings and make me dance for you( trying to get a reaction) and thats exactly what you are doing. So kindly please stop it becuase its not going to happen.

Deadmandrinking11:17 pm 13 Feb 09

Because, Pommy Bastard, some workers with disabilities or mental health issues require patient and understanding employers.

I think when you said anyone who can use the internet as much as dexi can work you gave away the fact that you don’t seem to understand how disabilities can affect people differently. Many disabled people use the internet, not all of them can work. The link you provided, however is interesting. There are programs like this for people with many different issues. Not all of them work for everyone, though.

Finally, people do live longer than a month, so they could have had previous experience with the dole.

Pommy bastard10:42 pm 13 Feb 09

Even more interesting, why did Dexi (admittedly in another thread,) state that s/he was; “not going to work until I find an employer I can trust”, if s/he is incapable of work?

Pommy bastard9:15 pm 13 Feb 09

Again Pommy Bastard displays his complete lack of knowledge of disabilities and mental illnesses, how they affect people and how they are regarded by the government.

Really? Again? Where was this display of my “lack of knowledge”, please quote me. Oh, and quote any previous ones too please.

Clinical depression, schizophrenia, autism – these are some of the many, many conditions which can make workplaces unbearable for sufferers.

As I well know, probably far better than you do.

There’s a huge difference between maintaining a garden at home and gardening professionally. Pace, skill level, communication, ignorance (that’d be people like you and starscream), the individual symptoms of these conditions – all of these affect how long a person can work and even whether they can.

Maybe Dexi should contact these people, they are particularly adept at placing and training people, people with mental illness, to work in that area. But as Dexi has not admitted to any mental health problems it may not be appropriate;

Garden and Home Maintenance

41B David Street, O’Connor ACT 2602
P.O. Box 6216, O’Connor ACT 2602
Phone : (02) 6205 1583
Email : northsouth@mifact.org.au

NorthSouth Contractors is a successful business run by the Mental Illness Fellowship of the ACT as a rehabilitation and training scheme for people recovering from mental illness.

Dexi has brought his/her own personality to this debate, which has caused the fractiouness. Maybe you should examine Dexi’s attitude to his/her self, working people, and work, and then examine my attitude to that one specific person in that light. I have neither generalised Dexi’s situation (as you have) nor castigated anyone else for their inability to work.

I don’t think I looked for any sympathy. Quite the opposite it would seem. Fortunately I am not required to look for a job. I have all week to apply myself to eating.

Yes they do. You have to apply for 10 jobs a fortnight. Try it week after month.

Interesting. How would Dexi know what it’s like to apply for 10 jobs a fortnight if s/he is not required to look for work?

Deadmandrinking5:49 pm 13 Feb 09

Do you even know what trolling is?

Deadmandrinking said :

Clinical depression, schizophrenia, autism – these are some of the many, many conditions which can make workplaces unbearable for sufferers. There’s a huge difference between maintaining a garden at home and gardening professionally. Pace, skill level, communication, ignorance (that’d be people like you and starscream), the individual symptoms of these conditions – all of these affect how long a person can work and even whether they can.

Stop trolling/flame-baiting, dmd.

I apologize.
No probs.

often, those kinds of jobs require an education.
I think that, unless you want to be employed, which Dexi doesn’t need/require, or have a qualification or certification, you can figure a lot of stuff out yourself (within reason).
Building a website – you can figure out yourself (for free, if you use the internet for help)
Politics – You can do that without education….to a limit. You just need to be well(out)spoken, intelligent, or a celebrity.
Surgery – I hope you have education/qualification. Dr. Patel, are you reading this?

Deadmandrinking3:39 pm 13 Feb 09

That is true, theBrad. I may have misjudged your comment a little, and I apologize. Although, often, those kinds of jobs require an education. I’d recommend Dexi look at education etc., if they haven’t already and if they are able, of course.

And theBrad…I’m not even going to start on the viability of making money off the internet. It’s not simply everybody rush in, do some work, make a living

True, but if you’re screwed, depressed, and demoralised, it’s an option that Dexi may not have thought of.
And an option that with a bit of hard brain-work (and a good idea), can succeed.
Better to try (and fail) to help, than to sit back and slag off.

If you have any other suggestions that may help Dexi, feel free to supercede mine. Supporting Dexi on welfare is not going to cure bitterness and depression. Only Dexi (and (prescribed) drugs) can do that.

Deadmandrinking3:32 pm 13 Feb 09

It’s probably a little close to home to keep a cool head for Dexi. I could be entirely wrong, too. It’s just there’s two clues about finding an employer to trust and not being required to look for work.

I wonder how everyone is going to feel about these issues as we slip deeper into the economic poo? Addressing issues in welfare is not a bad idea at all right now…

That’s a good point DMD that I didn’t think of. The full on nature of RiotACT probably would not be conducive to those already unlikely to divulge matters personal.

I still think Dexi makes for a poor advocate.

Deadmandrinking3:22 pm 13 Feb 09

‘you’d hope they’d be able to seek some justification’ was ‘justice’ not ‘justification’

Deadmandrinking3:21 pm 13 Feb 09

Vy, I agree with #256, but it is Dexi’s choice. I imagine there is some cause for Dexi not being required to look for work. #253 was extremely offensive though. You should really think about how lucky you are to be fit and healthy. Some cannot be fit and healthy for reasons beyond their control.

JB, it can be a little different in regards to people with disabilities. If being disabled puts them well below the poverty line and they can’t do anything about it, you’d hope they’d be able to seek some justification.

JakeZ, like I said, I suspect there is more to Dexi’s story. I also know that those on pensions and disability support can get deeply embarrassed about it, especially those with acquired disabilities. We seem to only be getting his/her frustration at the system, but not why – and by itself, of course it’s going to sound selfish. However, there could be a range of other reasons too, so I’m not going to resort to simply abusing Dexi for not finding work.

And theBrad…I’m not even going to start on the viability of making money off the internet. It’s not simply everybody rush in, do some work, make a living. You should know that.

jakez said :

I completely understand what you are saying DMD. I think the problem here though is that the only disability Dexi has displayed is a terrible bloody attitude.

If Dexi explained the situation, or at least didn’t rub it in peoples faces, the reaction would not be the same. At least not from me (admittedly I have not been one of the attack dogs).

Like I said, if people weren’t forced, the reaction would not be there. Nobody can complain about something that they are consenting to, but they can sure as hell complain when the transaction is done at the point of a barrel. That is all we are seeing here.

jakez said :

I completely understand what you are saying DMD. I think the problem here though is that the only disability Dexi has displayed is a terrible bloody attitude.

If Dexi explained the situation, or at least didn’t rub it in peoples faces, the reaction would not be the same. At least not from me (admittedly I have not been one of the attack dogs).

Like I said, if people weren’t forced, the reaction would not be there. Nobody can complain about something that they are consenting to, but they can sure as hell complain when the transaction is done at the point of a barrel. That is all we are seeing here.

I completely understand what you are saying DMD. I think the problem here though is that the only disability Dexi has displayed is a terrible bloody attitude.

If Dexi explained the situation, or at least didn’t rub it in peoples faces, the reaction would not be the same. At least not from me (admittedly I have not been one of the attack dogs).

Like I said, if people weren’t forced, the reaction would not be there. Nobody can complain about something that they are consenting to, but they can sure as hell complain when the transaction is done at the point of a barrel. That is all we are seeing here.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy3:01 pm 13 Feb 09

Dexi, I think that unless you are willing to tell us why you can’t or won’t work, this discussion really has nowhere to go.

JB I think you are a bit off topic.

Suing the Government for a cost of living raise, for welfare recipients. Its a little different than suing for unfair dismissal from a job.

One involves workers the other poor people who do not work.

But you are right its not worth suing over. Not unless millions are involved.

these are some of the many, many conditions which can make workplaces unbearable for sufferers

Easy solution, don’t work in the workforce.
I made a serious valid suggestion before. Start a website. JB has successfully done it, and he’s not even disabled…..so it can’t be that bad an idea.

And don’t do a physical job. Dexi has intelligence, so he/she could do a mental job, like JB does.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:52 pm 13 Feb 09

Last week I bruised my right nipple climbing out of the pool. I guess I better quit my job and sign up for Centrelink benefits.

On the other hand DMD, a few years ago when I was the victim of a particularly egregious sacking I talked to a lawyer about pursuing it.

Lawyer: Are you going to be able to work again?
Me: Sure, I’m fit, smart, and don’t mind working hard.
Lawyer: Then just go get another job, it’s never worth wasting your life over.

Deadmandrinking2:44 pm 13 Feb 09

Again Pommy Bastard displays his complete lack of knowledge of disabilities and mental illnesses, how they affect people and how they are regarded by the government.

Clinical depression, schizophrenia, autism – these are some of the many, many conditions which can make workplaces unbearable for sufferers. There’s a huge difference between maintaining a garden at home and gardening professionally. Pace, skill level, communication, ignorance (that’d be people like you and starscream), the individual symptoms of these conditions – all of these affect how long a person can work and even whether they can.

Many disabled people are too poor to afford Solicitors.

Well thankfully dexi is too poor to pay solicitors to sue the government 🙂

Pommy bastard11:28 am 13 Feb 09

dexi said :

Now you can take a step back, put all your bigot based thoughts in your wallet pocket and consider what life on welfare is like for people who are unable to work through, disability, illness, children and age. Sure its easy to ignore them.

Most people with disabilities would love to work, as would those with illnesses, children, and the elderly. My 75 year old mother works as a volunteer at the hospital, it’s good for her self respect.

Its easy to tell them its their fault. Its easy to say they have total control in their world and should do something.

What is not easy, is the life they live on welfare.

Except that’s just am load of old cobblers NO ONE here has said that those with disabilities “its their fault. Its easy to say they have total control in their world and should do something,” apart from you that is.

Suing the Government is not an easy option for them. It may be the only one that will make life a little more spendable. Mainly because you cant live on platitudes.

Some choose however live off the state, even though as YOU have demonstrated here about yourself, are quite capable of working.

Tyler. I wont find understanding here. Some show such a lack of understanding I find that my life as an idiot should remain unresolved.

It would be much easier to sue. To continue to rely on the court of public opinion for a cost of living increase is only going to bring abuse and unhelpful rhetoric.

tylersmayhem11:03 am 13 Feb 09

consider what life on welfare is like for people who are unable to work through, disability, illness, children and age.

So which is it in your case Dexi. You still continue to side-step what YOUR disability is (if you actually have one other than laziness). If you did, and were open about it – you might find a little more understanding on here?!

an alternative might be to speak to the riotact team re their current sales positions going. may be a great fit for you, dexi, and allow you to sell whilst interacting with others….

dexi said :

Well its good to here now exactly how miserable living on welfare can be. Its enough to make you want to get a job.

Now you can take a step back, put all your bigot based thoughts in your wallet pocket and consider what life on welfare is like for people who are unable to work through, disability, illness, children and age. Sure its easy to ignore them. Its easy to tell them its their fault. Its easy to say they have total control in their world and should do something.

What is not easy, is the life they live on welfare.

Suing the Government is not an easy option for them. It may be the only one that will make life a little more spendable. Mainly because you cant live on platitudes.

ok, Stop trolling. You’ve run out of arguments, and you’re going around in circles.

Give up, and stop bumping this thread. I think we’ve reached the record by now…surely.

neanderthalsis10:34 am 13 Feb 09

you can’t like on platypus either 😛

Well its good to here now exactly how miserable living on welfare can be. Its enough to make you want to get a job.

Now you can take a step back, put all your bigot based thoughts in your wallet pocket and consider what life on welfare is like for people who are unable to work through, disability, illness, children and age. Sure its easy to ignore them. Its easy to tell them its their fault. Its easy to say they have total control in their world and should do something.

What is not easy, is the life they live on welfare.

Suing the Government is not an easy option for them. It may be the only one that will make life a little more spendable. Mainly because you cant live on platitudes.

Another thought, Dexi.

You come across as an intelligent person. seeing you are on the computer a lot, I would suggest getting a book on Java EE or .net, and build a website. Get people to sponser it, and make some pocket money.
Maybe JB could offer some tips, or open-source his code to you. 🙂

rose1 said :

Welfare payments are below the poverty line, especially for the sick and elderly, the old saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, a friend of mind who is an accountant said he never believed that but after working as an accountant the rich rought the system and most don’t pay taxes, so who is greedy?

The poverty line depends on where you get it from. Some poverty lines used don’t make much sense.

The rich and the poor are getting richer.

The rich absolutely rort the system. This is why I so strongly believe in simplifying our tax system, lowering the rates, and getting rid of the ridiculously large amount of deductions that are only in there to serve special interests. The system is geared so that those with the knowledge, can gear it to themselves.

I don’t blame Kerry Packer for paying little tax (I agree with his sentiments), I just blame the system for allowing it to happen. There is a better way.

Dexi,
I don’t know how long you’ve been in this current situation, but presuming you’re not dying, do you want to be there and be miserable for the rest of your life. It could be a very looooooong time.
One day, you’re going to decide that you want to do something about it, because you’re going to be bored, lonely, frustrated and angry at yourself, and angry at the world.

I think you’re at least part-way way there now, so why not make Feb 13th the day to change your situation, and do something apart from hang out on RiotAct with the rest of us RiotAct junkies. 🙂

neanderthalsis said :

Dexi, there is a difference between being a victim and having a victim mentality. One is genuine, the other always finds someone else to blame for their circumstances.

In many cases the trus victim can pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get on with recovery. The “woe is me” type victim will keep finding excuses and people to blame. Sound familiar?

Some overcome adversity, some wallow in it.

I spent several months wallowing in self pity, living in a squalid dorm room at the village. it was only after i realised that it wasn’t getting me anywhere, and a couple of people pointed out that they could offer advice, but nothing else, that i decided to get myself out of the situation i was in.

it was hard, but i am glad that i did.

I hated receiving welfare, I try not to be long out of work these days. (I start the day after i am unemployed, phoning, sending in resumes and making sure that I am fronting interviews in the first week) before my networking skills and industry knowledge get “cold”.

I could be a bad advert for your business.

Pommy bastard9:52 am 13 Feb 09

dexi said :

Ok so now I can add, a woe is me, wallowing, lazy, maggot, scumbag with a holy foot complex.

So I should be grateful for your words of encouragement?

You should put your gardening skills, and/or your internet/computing skills to good use at a paying job, and stop being such a bad advert for the unemployed. (Your poor self image is no concern of ours.)

Ok so now I can add, a woe is me, wallowing, lazy, maggot, scumbag with a holy foot complex.

So I should be grateful for your words of encouragement?

neanderthalsis9:33 am 13 Feb 09

Dexi, there is a difference between being a victim and having a victim mentality. One is genuine, the other always finds someone else to blame for their circumstances.

In many cases the trus victim can pick themselves up, dust themselves off and get on with recovery. The “woe is me” type victim will keep finding excuses and people to blame. Sound familiar?

Some overcome adversity, some wallow in it.

Tooks “Stop being a victim and do something about your situation.”

I think you might mean stop “perpetrating poverty” on my self. You can stop perpetrating.

Victims usually have had littler control of what has happened to them. Victim would mean that something has already happened. This is not a matter of stopping, its already done. What victims do is recover. This may take a lot of time. It may take longer than the victim, family and friends would all like. It will change you in very subtle ways that may have an effect on your life forever. In the worst case you may find that it just becomes less important and less controlling of your life.

Perpetrators can always find victims.

I’m surprised that you used such a throw away line.

neanderthalsis9:15 am 13 Feb 09

rose1 said :

rich rought the system and most don’t pay taxes, so who is greedy?

All taxpayers are able to minimise their tax through deductions,negative gearing investments, etc. it is perfectly legal (in most cases unless you funnel money into offshore accounts). In fact, if you don’t do everything legal to minimise your taxes you’re a bit of a goose.

Pommy bastard7:37 am 13 Feb 09

dexi said :

I will eat as I have to eat. I keep a large garden full of delicious fresh food. I might even trade for some take away later in the week. I get regular coffee at a cafe. All thanks to my lovely long suffering friends.

Do I hear the sound of Dexi, once again, shooting him/herself in the foot?

So Dexi you are able to garden and raise food? On top of your ability to get out and about for your coffee, and as we have noticed, you are able to spend hours on the net shooting your mouth off. Yet you are still unable to get a job and contribute towards your being, “fortunate enough to live in a great community, Canberra,”.

And you wonder why you get ripped so badly here? This is compounded by your portraying the unemployed as bludgers (which only you have done in this debate,) and your scorn for the decent hard working people who pay taxes to keep you in ciggys and coffee.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy7:36 am 13 Feb 09

It’s easy to say that the risk rort the system, but the people whoi genuinely get their taxes down into really small percentages of what they earn is a very veryu small minority. The higher proefessional income earners (ie the $100-300k range) manage to reduce taxes a bit, but still pay a large sum in terms of actual dollars.

If you are not happy with the dole payments you get, then find a job.

simple.

a friend of mind who is an accountant said he never believed that but after working as an accountant the rich rought the system and most don’t pay taxes, so who is greedy?

Accountants? Who better to know how to rought the system.

Welfare payments are below the poverty line, especially for the sick and elderly, the old saying the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, a friend of mind who is an accountant said he never believed that but after working as an accountant the rich rought the system and most don’t pay taxes, so who is greedy?

Deadmandrinking said :

Well it could just be full of right-wing nutcases…

Oh wait…

I resemble that remark!

Deadmandrinking said :

Well it could just be full of right-wing nutcases…

Oh wait…

that is probably the most apt thing said in this post…

Deadmandrinking3:30 pm 11 Feb 09

Well it could just be full of right-wing nutcases…

Oh wait…

tylersmayhem2:48 pm 11 Feb 09

And I think Riot-Act is very symbolic of our current political system.

You are brilliant and so deep DMD. Perhaps this is becuase RA is made up of everyone who votes (assuming most members are of voting age). So yes, it is a good representation of the Government which the majority of Canberra and Australia voted for.

You are a genius!

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:44 pm 11 Feb 09

How welfare people spend the money is their business. Just because they are on welfare does not mean they have to be living in a prison.

So what exactly are your lifestyle expectations? Car? House? Holidays overseas?

You haven’t worked to earn any of this. Welfare is about helping people out of a hole, not subsidising a comfortable lifestyle.

dexi said :

I have no cash. I spent it on medicine. I do these things cashless. Any thing could happen between now and tomorrow. Just a small thing can have major impact on the poverty line.

But come on tell me how much of a maggot I am. I know you want to.

How welfare people spend the money is their business. Just because they are on welfare does not mean they have to be living in a prison.

DMD I like your reasoning.

I’d just like to make a point that I think has been illustrated here. People on Government welfare are bludgers and cretins. To Dexi’s friends and voluntary contributors, Dexi is I’m sure long suffering and perfectly decent.

Compare our current system with the olden days of mutual societies and charity. What effect does the Government take up of assistance programs shake the foundations of societal interaction? Do you know your neighbour? Would you help them? Would you even know they needed help?

I have no cash. I spent it on medicine. I do these things cashless. Any thing could happen between now and tomorrow. Just a small thing can have major impact on the poverty line.

But come on tell me how much of a maggot I am. I know you want to.

How welfare people spend the money is their business. Just because they are on welfare does not mean they have to be living in a prison.

DMD I like your reasoning.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:59 pm 11 Feb 09

If you think you are doing it tough, but can afford cafe coffee, smokes and takeaway, I can’t help but wonder whether your decision making is more the issue than lack of funds.

I can help myself to improve my situation. I am on patches, but can still manage cigg’s if I wanted to.

How do you think people survive with no money? Would you rather I have nothing?

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:39 pm 11 Feb 09

So despite being totally broke and sick, you can manage takeaway food, coffee out and cigarettes… Hm…

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:35 pm 11 Feb 09

Vy, you made me laugh.

I live to give!

I will eat as I have to eat. I keep a large garden full of delicious fresh food. I might even trade for some take away later in the week. I get regular coffee at a cafe. All thanks to my lovely long suffering friends.

Having no money will impact on plenty of things this week. I get by because I am fortunate enough to live in a great community, Canberra.

tylersmayhem1:26 pm 11 Feb 09

Tyler No spent my $10.60 on penicillin V, and Metronidazole. It stops the dry retching.

That sounds nasty Dexi. How will you eat for the next week now? As a matter of interest, how is Metronidazole stopping dry retching? What is the dry retching caused by?

Jakez ear fingering will give no relief.

Tyler No spent my $10.60 on penicillin V, and Metronidazole. It stops the dry retching.

The smoking argument only means something if you are willing to consider your own impact on the planet with regards to consumer consumption. In the mean time nicotine has hold of my tiny, imperfect brain.

Deadmandrinking12:56 pm 11 Feb 09

I get frustrated Jake, I get frustrated.

And I think Riot-Act is very symbolic of our current political system. Intellectual debate is often shouted down by ill-thought-out attacks on popular targets, decorated with corny catch-phrases and ball-less threats of violence, which helps people channel their everyday frustrations in the most ignorant way possible.

Deadmandrinking said :

This thread, as usual, whilst it could have been an interesting and intellectual conversation, has been brought down by thick people with an inflated sense of self-worth. Once again, the usual victims of these sad people are the downtrodden. Narrow-minded, cruel, wealthy – welcome to capitalism.

I think your last sentence lumps you in with those you condemn for bringing this thread to an intellectual low point.

Basically I condemn you all and consider myself blameless. Now I shall stick my fingers in my ears.

Deadmandrinking12:41 pm 11 Feb 09

Vy, you made me laugh. Complaining about trolling before doing so yourself. VG also seems to have assumed the role of the semantic police post his own indulgence in that himself. Mall security, anyone?

Flat tax will not work, because the government will not have enough money. Some on welfare, I suspect Dexi included, are there because they have serious trouble working – and Pommy-bastard, to address something you said way earlier; you have obviously never had dealings with someone who has a disability, as you have little to no grasp of the range of limitations people experience when they have one. I suggest you make no further comments regarding people with disability, as some people with them would find your comments extremely offensive.

This thread, as usual, whilst it could have been an interesting and intellectual conversation, has been brought down by thick people with an inflated sense of self-worth. Once again, the usual victims of these sad people are the downtrodden. Narrow-minded, cruel, wealthy – welcome to capitalism.

tylersmayhem12:31 pm 11 Feb 09

The more pressing choices between medication or food have to be dealt with.

Are you counting nicotine as your “medication” by any chance Dexi? If so, no wonder you have trouble meeting some of life’s necessities.

Great to know my tax money is going to people who spend it on cigarettes, get sick from smoking them (long and short term), then become even more of a drain on the Government and tax payers supporting you in hospital for smoking related illnesses which could be avoided.

Perhaps we should sue people like you Dexi who take tax payers money and spend it on smoking, and become even more of a oxygen thief to society?!

Ta Tooks I did mean libel.

“And if you can’t live off those benefits, then you need to budget better.”

I think you lot are taking the piss. I have experienced living off the benefit and it is not enough. The sick and elderly are being forced to live on a nothing wage. They generally are limited in what they can do. The unemployed benefit is not better. At best it is a very short term supplement. At worst a limiting do nothing wage. The cost of living has gone above what welfare pays. (Should I use cap locks)

What makes you think I am not doing something about my situation. Obviously I am doing something, any other claim would be libel.

By the way, I think you meant libel.

Dexi, you have got to be taking the piss. Stop being a victim and do something about your situation.

And if you can’t live off those benefits, then you need to budget better.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy11:55 am 11 Feb 09

This is some of the best and most effectively trolling I’ve seen in ages.

Maybe we should tattoo permanent welfare recipients with their Centrelink Reference Number…

“Laughable, don’t for get this thread also includes your own words Dexi.”

My out of context, partial quote. “I refuse to work” taken from another thread and used to label me by, I think Tyler. The rest I have already answered PB.

“If we’re stupid and we can hold down jobs, what does that make you? :)”
That makes me insane or sane, I get confused about which.

More to the the heart of the matter. People who sue the Government will also have to put up with being attacked by the public, for the crime of being poor, stupid and helpless. Or just because of peoples pre-set bias against welfare. Such a lot of effort for so little money.

Time to raise welfare payments to meet cost of living or face being sued.

dexi said :

I think its liable. I have been patient and understanding. I really should get a lawyer and sue for the horrid rumours and abuse directed my way. Unfortunately I can not afford that. The more pressing choices between medication or food have to be dealt with.

Plus you haven’t been identified. Good luck with that.

Pommy bastard11:23 am 11 Feb 09

dexi said :

Yes they do. You have to apply for 10 jobs a fortnight. Try it week after month.

You’ve been applying for 10 jobs a fortnight and not got one? How long have you been doing that?

As for all the bullshit about dexi refusing to work, lifestyle choices and the rest of the abuse including personal injury in a Volvo. I think its liable. I have been patient and understanding. I really should get a lawyer and sue for the horrid rumours and abuse directed my way.

Laughable, don’t for get this thread also includes your own words Dexi.

Unfortunately I can not afford that. The more pressing choices between medication or food have to be dealt with.

You should try getting a job, you’d have more money then.

Do you get why suing the Government might be hard?

And you were just about to show us where someone had said it was easy…

Some of you really are stupid. It surprises me you can hold down a job.

If we’re stupid and we can hold down jobs, what does that make you? 🙂

“If she didn’t comply with any of these conditions they would cut off her dole.
Don’t they do that anymore?”

Yes they do. You have to apply for 10 jobs a fortnight. Try it week after month.

As for all the bullshit about dexi refusing to work, lifestyle choices and the rest of the abuse including personal injury in a Volvo. I think its liable. I have been patient and understanding. I really should get a lawyer and sue for the horrid rumours and abuse directed my way. Unfortunately I can not afford that. The more pressing choices between medication or food have to be dealt with.

Do you get why suing the Government might be hard?

Some of you really are stupid. It surprises me you can hold down a job.

tylersmayhem11:03 am 11 Feb 09

If Arnie can win, Dexi can too.

Hahahahahahaha, I can hear Arnie’s catch phrase now “Multi-Attribute Decision Make that Dexi”.

Hahahahahahaha

tylersmayhem10:58 am 11 Feb 09

Seriously, explain to me how it should work. Do we: (a) force people like dexi to work?

No, we simply expect ungrateful people like Dexi to humbly tare their hand-outs and not abuse hard working tax payers, or attempt to sue the Government. If Dexi could do just these 2 things, I’d have not one single issue!

I am tylersmayhem’s raging bile duct.

Oh, and LOL WMC, I enjoyed that little gem – very apt 🙂

neanderthalsis9:20 am 11 Feb 09

Oh, and one of Kev directives under the new Employment Services Contract was to cut breaching provisions so that the system is more “compassionate”.

neanderthalsis9:06 am 11 Feb 09

They do for most Big Feet, but some people get exemptions fromm mutual obligation. All you need to do is go on a Personal Support Program or sign up for literacy and numeracy training and they waive the whole jobsearch side of it for you.

Have things changed with unemployment benifets in the last 10 years?

I recall when my sister lost her chef’s job 10 years ago and went onto unemployment, she had to prove to the Department that she had applied for 3 jobs a week . And they had to be jobs that she would be able to get, so not applying for a job as a chemical engineer when you are qualified as a chef.

She also had to go to job interviews as directed by centrelink, and take any job that was offered. So she ended up picking tomatoes.

If she didn’t comply with any of these conditions they would cut off her dole.

Don’t they do that anymore?

Pommy bastard7:31 am 11 Feb 09

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Seriously, explain to me how it should work. Do we:

(a) force people like dexi to work?

No, force equals punishment, therefore that would be unfair.

(b) cut off their welfare entirely, creating a new poverty-stricken underclass that turns to crime? Then we just spend more on police, courts, jails, insurance…everybody wins again!

That is unfair, not every unemployed person would turn to crime, that is a gross insult to the unemployed.

Though this solution would create more jobs in law enforcement and prison staff etc.

Come on, genius. By all means, forget the social and moral good – just explain the economics.

I’m in agreement with the unemployed working, to their capacity for the dole. There are plenty of public work jobs which could be done. Paying people for doing nothing leads to the sort of attitude, and “entitlement culture” we see from Dexi. A refusal to work should, like in normal life, be a cause for cessation of payment, you do not get something for nothing in this life.

This would also create jobs, which should be filled from the ranks of the unemployed, in supervisory, and management roles.

How rude – resorting to calling me a penis head. I’ve thrown my 2c worth in plenty of times about my thoughts on welfare. There is always a job someone can do. My proposal is expand work for the dole and throw money into education centres. If you get paid by the govt you work for it. be it 1, 2 or 3 days a week depending on your circumstances, other days are education. I don’t care if people do highway litter patrols or pull weeds at old peoples homes. They get paid they do work. The rest of the week they can job seek, do more education of bludge their buts off if they like.

Back at you Woody man

“It’s not like they’re bleeding you dry. You have a lot of money. You just whinge you’ve got nothing to whinge about.”

Lots of money have I? Nice work getting the ‘ass’ part of assume right. Please point out the whinge as well. I said a flat rate of tax would work. Personal, business, all the same.

WMC how’s this for a solution. Work for the dole in an area that helps society out. Meals on Wheels, ferrying around the disabled, a plethora of things.

Or give him/her/it $450 to do f*ck all. I also didn;t say to throw hands in the air and surrender, but the experts got us here in the 1st place so their expertise is questionable

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Go on – have a crack at it. Give me a solution that’s better for everybody than a computer depositing $450 into dexi’s account – one that doesn’t shoulder employers, taxpayers and society in general with an additional burden they’d gladly pay $450 to make go away.

You,DeadShitDribbling and dexi holding hands in the front seat of a volvo, us pushing it towards a cliff?

Woody Mann-Caruso8:22 pm 10 Feb 09

Something that, in the current climate, no-one can do.

I’ll be sure to let Treasury know that the GFC means they can just throw up their hands and say “too hard”.

Go on – have a crack at it. Give me a solution that’s better for everybody than a computer depositing $450 into dexi’s account – one that doesn’t shoulder employers, taxpayers and society in general with an additional burden they’d gladly pay $450 to make go away.

Woody Mann-Caruso8:13 pm 10 Feb 09

RUNNING MAN!

I stand corrected. We could also have Thunderdome, The Long Walk and jugger.

Deadmandrinking8:04 pm 10 Feb 09

For crying out loud, VG!

I haven’t changed my opinion. Think; if everyone was taxed the same rate, the government would simply not have enough money. Where are we going to get this money if not from higher income earners?

It’s not like they’re bleeding you dry. You have a lot of money. You just whinge you’ve got nothing to whinge about.

“just explain the economics.”

Something that, in the current climate, no-one can do.

BTW there is a vast difference of people in this world who are downtrodden beyond their control and those, like Dexi, who choose the ‘bohemian’ lifestyle but expect the benefits of those who are less fortunate than themselves

Woody Mann-Caruso, I think your analysis has forgotten one very important factor.

THE INTRODUCTION OF THE RUNNING MAN!

If Arnie can win, Dexi can too.

Woody Mann-Caruso7:31 pm 10 Feb 09

as expected Woody and DMD have to back the downtrodden victim of society. Winning friends and influencing people as usual.

If you had brains instead of a tiny penis for a head you’d back the downtrodden as well, if only for your own selfish interests.

Seriously, explain to me how it should work. Do we:

(a) force people like dexi to work? All we need is an agency full of people with a shiny building, IT infrastructure, cars etc to find placements for them, then manage their cases to make sure it’s working out. We’d need to pay employers some kind of incentive to take these bludgers, who would then act as a drain on productivity, costing the business money and making their coworkers lives miserable. We’d also need to explain to the genuinely unemployed why we gave a job to somebody who didn’t want to be there instead of them. End result – a much higher expense for the taxpayer and employers lose out; or

(b) cut off their welfare entirely, creating a new poverty-stricken underclass that turns to crime? Then we just spend more on police, courts, jails, insurance…everybody wins again!

Come on, genius. By all means, forget the social and moral good – just explain the economics.

Hells_Bells747:14 pm 10 Feb 09

Well, at the risk of reverse stereotyping here they would be up at dawn, neatly done and ready to work their arses off! Well, that’s if they refused welfare in a strike hey?

But I have no problems, people tend to stimulate the world just breathing in it, they’re not useless whether they have a title or not!

dexi said :

Welfare people do not have the industrial muscle or union power to push the cause.

What would a welfare recipient strike look like?

Deadmandrinking said :

I sometime browse late, what’s the problem? And Vg, I’ve worked 3 jobs at the same time before, so I do know a thing or two about paying taxes. Just like you to pathetically bring the argument down to semantics, since you obviously did not understand what I was saying.

JakeZ, at 200K, you’ve generally covered your essentials (I hope!) and all you’ve got left over is really luxury money – free to blow or invest. The government tries not to tax too heavily on what you need to maintain your standard of living. Costs of living, areas where you live and financial commitments such as mortgages generally differ based on annual income, and since you need that money, the rate is smaller on lower amounts of tax. If we didn’t differ the rates, in order for the government to make enough out of taxes, we’d need a rate that would severely harm those who earn less p.a.

Its OK. You change opinions and stances like the wind. I’m not the only one who can’t understand what you’re saying.

God forbid someone should enjoy the fruits of their labour if they earn a bit more than the average. You need to learn the difference between rates and amounts

Hells_Bells745:25 pm 10 Feb 09

Just makes me wanna say it again! Can’t wait for the Robotic Wageless Economy! The age of REcreation!

Deadmandrinking4:37 pm 10 Feb 09

I didn’t know the dole provided enough money for that, Special G.

Can I sue the govt if they don’t pay me enough as a public servant to meet all the essentials. I don’t even have foxtel and my net connection sux compared with friends.

dexi you are not even bringing anything to this debate anymore and as expected Woody and DMD have to back the downtrodden victim of society. Winning friends and influencing people as usual.

Deadmandrinking3:09 pm 10 Feb 09

Jake Z – It’s more to do with the cost of living not being parallel enough with the different incomes people earn – especially considering the rental prices in this country. I understand your overall philosophy, and whilst we may have some major differences when it comes to taxation and the economy, I do respect it and do agree with many of your social philosophies.

Woody Mann-Caruso2:56 pm 10 Feb 09

Get off your a**e, and go and get a job – stop making excuses

I am tylersmayhem’s raging bile duct.

Deadmandrinking said :

I sometime browse late, what’s the problem? And Vg, I’ve worked 3 jobs at the same time before, so I do know a thing or two about paying taxes. Just like you to pathetically bring the argument down to semantics, since you obviously did not understand what I was saying.

JakeZ, at 200K, you’ve generally covered your essentials (I hope!) and all you’ve got left over is really luxury money – free to blow or invest. The government tries not to tax too heavily on what you need to maintain your standard of living. Costs of living, areas where you live and financial commitments such as mortgages generally differ based on annual income, and since you need that money, the rate is smaller on lower amounts of tax. If we didn’t differ the rates, in order for the government to make enough out of taxes, we’d need a rate that would severely harm those who earn less p.a.

So basically your rationale for progressive rates is not so much that the rich are richy poos who have too much money but more that there is a certain level of Government services necessary and the more you take from the top brackets, the less has to come from the bottom brackets? It’s not so much a desire to see wealth redistribution as simply a way of trying to make the burden as less as possible for lower income earners (given a certain level of spending).

I can respect that. I think there are long term economic issues that have to be considered and some philosophical differences between us but I can respect that rationale.

Deadmandrinking2:15 pm 10 Feb 09

I sometime browse late, what’s the problem? And Vg, I’ve worked 3 jobs at the same time before, so I do know a thing or two about paying taxes. Just like you to pathetically bring the argument down to semantics, since you obviously did not understand what I was saying.

JakeZ, at 200K, you’ve generally covered your essentials (I hope!) and all you’ve got left over is really luxury money – free to blow or invest. The government tries not to tax too heavily on what you need to maintain your standard of living. Costs of living, areas where you live and financial commitments such as mortgages generally differ based on annual income, and since you need that money, the rate is smaller on lower amounts of tax. If we didn’t differ the rates, in order for the government to make enough out of taxes, we’d need a rate that would severely harm those who earn less p.a.

stop trolling, dexi.

Tyler. I don’t care how big your penis is. Its your penis. You get all the benefit from it. Good for you.

tylersmayhem1:43 pm 10 Feb 09

Listen here Dexi – I used to pull 70 hours weeks getting paid about $14 – 17 an hour (dependant on the day of week), to get my way through school and to save for travelling etc. That money sucked, and while it’s not much better these days, it’s quite a lot more than it used to be.

I hold no grudges for the industry paying so low, it just motivated me to work 2-3 jobs to get where and what I wanted in life.

Get off your a**e, and go and get a job – stop making excuses! I also hope you have no dependants, as it’d be a pretty crap example to be making to an impressionable mind.

I am giving them a bad rep. That’s good. I thought that happened well before I went on the dole. Maybe you should talk to Dr Nitschke for your example.

So lets discuss minimum pay rates for welfare dependant on capacity to work. I say they are low. I say they no longer reflect cost of living. Welfare people do not have the industrial muscle or union power to push the cause. What we do have now is the option of suing to help change this.

Is Family Tax Benefit B government assistance?

Is a tax refund government assistance?

Good gosh almighty how about the baby bonus?

I feel terribly abused and discriminated against

tylersmayhem1:15 pm 10 Feb 09

I know that people discriminate and outright abuse people receiving Government assistance.

Can you point out an example on here Dexi? You are simply giving people on Government assistance a bad rep. I have no problems with legitimate people needing help and harbor assistance out of my tax dollars. What I do have a problem is with someone like you who does not only not appreciate the support you receive – but you have the gall to throw it back in the faces of those who work hard so you can live an existence, and on top of that consider suing for more.

You might find yourself being replaced by a cheaper harder working competitor.

You really are a jaded ex-citizen of the world Dexi. You’ll find that there is such a thing as minimum pay grades dependent on the work you do. But then again, I suspect this is yet another false reason you give to yourself to steer clear of the workforce and avoid actually doing…well anything.

dexi said :

Jakez you better be good at it, there is plenty of motivated competition coming your way. You might find yourself being replaced by a cheaper harder working competitor.

That is as it should be.

PB I have no choice as labelled. As scum no one will employ me. As I will always be scum, because thats who I am, then I will always be unemployed. As scum I have lots of time to practise my scummy ways.

But seeing as you mentioned being on RA. Would not all the people who are at work be thieving internet and wages/time from their employer. Maybe you could “dog” on them PB.

Is it just me or is Dexi possibly the worst advocate for welfare recipients in the history of welfare?

dexi said :

That we deserve less than what we have. That we have control of our life. That welfare makes you a less of a citizen. In some cases it makes you a maggot scum.
As scum no one will employ me. As I will always be scum, because thats who I am, then I will always be unemployed. As scum I have lots of time to practise my scummy ways.

quoted for truth

Jakez you better be good at it, there is plenty of motivated competition coming your way. You might find yourself being replaced by a cheaper harder working competitor.

PB I have no choice as labelled. As scum no one will employ me. As I will always be scum, because thats who I am, then I will always be unemployed. As scum I have lots of time to practise my scummy ways.

But seeing as you mentioned being on RA. Would not all the people who are at work be thieving internet and wages/time from their employer. Maybe you could “dog” on them PB.

dexi said :

No I will not shut up. I write about the things I know. I write to learn to write. “I need a lota learning.”

I know that people discriminate and outright abuse people receiving Government assistance. These are people who have nowhere else to go and represent a wide variety of situations. They are ordinary Australians who deserve more than be put down by wealthy working people. We will see a lot more people on welfare. It will be interesting to see how they view the system. As it will be to see how they are viewed. Will you be calling them lazy? Will you demand they clean toilets? Will you call them maggots if they raise concerns? Will you wish them dead if they sue?

Mate I clean toilets for a living so I absolutely demand that they clean toilets.

Pommy bastard11:53 am 10 Feb 09

dexi said :

Your a “dog” PB.

Did you mean; “you’re a dog PB”?

I’ve told you everything you need to know to work out why.

I beg your pardon?

You see the thing I don’t get about all your arguments is life on the dole is not a luxury lifestyle.

Can you indicate where I, or anyone else, has said that it is?

Thought not.

It is a horrid thing. For those who have no choice………the sick, the slow, the unprofitable, its all they have and its not enough.

Who has “no choice” Dexi? Obviously not someone who has spent the best part of the last two hours online arguing.

See I didn’t use cap locks.

Well done you, another string to your bow.

You know if you cats are trying for the longest every discussion thread record you’re only about halfway there?

But if you want to keep going around in circles then knock yourselves out.

Your a “dog” PB.

I’ve told you everything you need to know to work out why.

You see the thing I don’t get about all your arguments is life on the dole is not a luxury lifestyle. It is a horrid thing. For those who have no choice………the sick, the slow, the unprofitable, its all they have and its not enough.

See I didn’t use cap locks.

Pommy bastard11:30 am 10 Feb 09

Dexi, you are equating your refusal to work with the situation of people who are put out of work but wish to earn their way and contribute to society, that’s not a fair or logical comparison.

The only person who has been put down is yourself, the only reason you have been put down is your admitted refusal to work.

Don’t try and tar good people with your own failings.

PB free representation only applies to criminal matters.

You show me your first PB.

No I will not shut up. I write about the things I know. I write to learn to write. “I need a lota learning.”

I know that people discriminate and outright abuse people receiving Government assistance. These are people who have nowhere else to go and represent a wide variety of situations. They are ordinary Australians who deserve more than be put down by wealthy working people. We will see a lot more people on welfare. It will be interesting to see how they view the system. As it will be to see how they are viewed. Will you be calling them lazy? Will you demand they clean toilets? Will you call them maggots if they raise concerns? Will you wish them dead if they sue?

At the end of the day regardless of who I am, I can say that as labelled, I have every reason not to work. Who gives a job and expect to make a profit from….a lazy maggot. Fish bait maybe.

Pommy bastard11:22 am 10 Feb 09

dexi said :

View me how ever you like. I stand up for all my comments.

Not asking for compassion. Just the right to sue.

You have the right to sue, and the right to free representation under the legal aid system, what part of this freebee which you are not prepared to pay for, nor work for, do you not understand?

The system has lots of counter and balances already in place to address Centerlink fraud. If you think someone is breaking the law you can phone the Fraud Hotline.

Can you tell us your name and address then Dexi? I’d be only to happy to dob you in.

dexi – the only person who is control of your life is you. If you can’t realise this and better your situation – which it sounds as though you are not all together happy with, then you need to take a look at what you are doing.
You are well written and can spend hours in front of a computer – do something about it.

If you wish to change your lot do it – or shut up.

The idea behind flat tax rates is people earn more and there is more incentive to earn more. This extra cash is then injected back into the community as purchases. GST is applied and more tax revenue is raised. Jobs are created in goods and services industries as people with cash spend it. Not hard to get your head around really.

Being a public servant I get told at work all the time how people pay my wages and therefore should pay extra special attention to them. Most of the time they don’t like the response.

View me how ever you like. I stand up for all my comments.

Not asking for compassion. Just the right to sue.

The system has lots of counter and balances already in place to address Centerlink fraud. If you think someone is breaking the law you can phone the Fraud Hotline.

I like this one best.
All this abuse does nothing for the poor. It just reminded me how many asshole’s are in the workforce.

As a burden to society one would suggest. One who actively contributes nothing but the breath they expire

Pommy bastard10:05 am 10 Feb 09

dexi said :

I like the “owe you a living”. It would seem that people think they own people on welfare. That we deserve less than what we have. That we have control of our life. That welfare makes you a less of a citizen. In some cases it makes you a maggot scum.

People who work for a living do not “own” those on welfare. However there are those, like your good self Dexi, who paint the unemployed in such a bad light, that compassion fatigue sets in.

Here’s some choice comments;

Actually I am entitled to live off the your smelly sweatiness.

I am entitled. I meet all my obligations and requirements. Its not a unique situation.

No one works to provide me anything. You all work for your own self interest.

All this abuse does nothing for the poor. It just remindes me how many asshole’s are in the workforce.

Work 70hr weeks will make you ill. Don’t do it. Its crap ideas like this that make me happy not to be in the workforce.

Fortunately I am not required to look for a job. I have all week to apply myself to eating.

You show no willingness to get off benefits and into work and to contribute, you show contempt for those who pay taxes to keep you in your “essentials”;

How do you think we should view you?

dexi said :

“I’m perfectly fine with that too, so long as whatever assistance they are then receiving is not brought about through the use of force.”

So people on welfare are not allowed to stand up for themselves and force the Government to treat them humanly.

I like the “owe you a living”. It would seem that people think they own people on welfare. That we deserve less than what we have. That we have control of our life. That welfare makes you a less of a citizen. In some cases it makes you a maggot scum.

No my point was that any Government welfare system must have provisions that ensure only those that need it, receive it.

Those who simply want to live some bohemian existence and are voluntarily given money by others is fine with me. That’s a matter between those two people.

I don’t know if you have quoted the wrong thing perhaps seeing as my comment was not to you and was not on the topic you have presented, however I would suggest to you that I don’t know your circumstances and thus have not commented on whether you are milking the system or not as others have suggested. I would merely tell you that I think its not particularly humane to live off the booty of robbers, however I have done it myself.

“I’m perfectly fine with that too, so long as whatever assistance they are then receiving is not brought about through the use of force.”

So people on welfare are not allowed to stand up for themselves and force the Government to treat them humanly.

I like the “owe you a living”. It would seem that people think they own people on welfare. That we deserve less than what we have. That we have control of our life. That welfare makes you a less of a citizen. In some cases it makes you a maggot scum.

Deadmandrinking said :

VG – If you’re paying 60K after earning 200K, you still have 140K, which is alot more than 70K and a lot more to be able to let go some on. When you have larger amounts of money, it’s only fair you pay more than just the percentage someone who’s earning a lot less is taxed, as the essential costs are definitely covered and it goes into luxuries after that.

Also, I assumed you were trying to put a point into your backwards 1950’s village idiot joke, I was addressing what I thought was the point – there is a lot of incentive in trying to sue the government.

But you’re still paying twice as much tax as the person who earns $100K. Earn twice as much, pay twice as much tax. Seems fair to me. Some people earn more because they do more. A flat tax rate means those that do earn more do pay more. I don’t know what part of that basic equation you missed. Maybe when you start paying taxes yourself you’ll work it out.

As for Watchirs suggestion of seeking legal recourse. Well, its a big statement, but its one of the most stupid things I’ve ever seen/heard in my life

Deadmandrinking said :

VG – If you’re paying 60K after earning 200K, you still have 140K, which is alot more than 70K and a lot more to be able to let go some on. When you have larger amounts of money, it’s only fair you pay more than just the percentage someone who’s earning a lot less is taxed, as the essential costs are definitely covered and it goes into luxuries after that.

This is more to flesh out your reasoning than an attack on progressive taxation but I have to ask, why is it only fair?

tylersmayhem8:58 am 10 Feb 09

Wow DMD – you’re committed posting at around 1am in the morn. JB, c’mon and just give him a job!

But to answer your last post, I have no problem with paying more tax than others becuase I earn more. It’s part of life. So is the reason I get more money than some, becuase I have a large amout of responsibility, and if I f**k-up, I’m out the door! The upside to this is I have a lot of job satisfaction, and I’m proud of the way I have worked hard and advanced in my career.

I could have always sat around on my a*se and waited for life to bring things to be – but it just don’t work that way.

Deadmandrinking12:56 am 10 Feb 09

VG – If you’re paying 60K after earning 200K, you still have 140K, which is alot more than 70K and a lot more to be able to let go some on. When you have larger amounts of money, it’s only fair you pay more than just the percentage someone who’s earning a lot less is taxed, as the essential costs are definitely covered and it goes into luxuries after that.

Also, I assumed you were trying to put a point into your backwards 1950’s village idiot joke, I was addressing what I thought was the point – there is a lot of incentive in trying to sue the government.

“Also VG, I think you’ll find less people want to f-k goats than sue the government for any reason they can.”

Call me crazy, but your average 3yo could have seen the (attempted) humour in that one.

“I don’t agree with a single tax rate. I think if you earn more, you should be taxed more – and that it should be based on what you earn overall as well.”

Here’s something else startling you may have missed out on. If you earn more you will be taxed more on a flat rate. I’ll make it easy for you. If you earn $100K pa and the tax rate is 30% (for example) then you will pay $30K in tax. At the same tax rate earning $200k you will be taxed $60K. Kind of invalidates the early part of your argument doesn’t it.

I earn a good wage and I bust my ass for it. If you think I’m on easy street come and do night shift with me. Spend the odd 23hr day at work, travel 2000kms and spend every waking hour for 2 weeks at work. I’m not complaining about my lot, in fact I love it, but I work hard for the pay packet I earn.

“Obviously I am worthless with no brains and should be dead”

No Dexi, you are just lazy, which is even more of an insult

tylersmayhem5:32 pm 09 Feb 09

My immediate question would be – are these people who are likely to attempt to sue the Government going to be investigated, or they themselves means tested to investigate where their money goes.

And your answer Dexi:

Some people can not do things for themselves, that is why the Government looks after their welfare. Its not like you are going to get anywhere unless you do something for yourself.

That and other comments you have made Dexi would indicate that you think there is nothing wrong with people already getting Government handouts, suing for more. That my (I would usually say friend) is scum behavior. After backing that up with the rest of the comments made on here, it’s clear you deserve nothing more than you are getting. Oh yeah, enjoy your $10.

Pommy bastard3:20 pm 09 Feb 09

Please be so kind as to insert the words; “on riotact,” as appropriate, in my post above.

Pommy bastard3:18 pm 09 Feb 09

The Brad said :

Despite DMD’s suggestion, I’m still sceptical that you are unable to at least do some charity work.

Anyone capable of spending as much time as, and posting as much as, Dexi, is capable of paid work.

powell01 said :

I have seen people who cannot find work that they can do, be it through disabilty, illness or just not being able to physically cope with the demands required. As long as they are happy enough with their life the way it is and do not complain without trying to make it better it is all fine by me.

I’m perfectly fine with that too, so long as whatever assistance they are then receiving is not brought about through the use of force.

Just a thought, people keep saying that they are on massive (to me) salaries) or arguing monetary policy here. But as someone mentioned, people do not like work!!!

If you are lucking enough to work in a job you like, or get paid enough in your mind to do even though you do not like it, good on you.

I personally do not agree with the idea of I do not want to work so I won’t, but I do understand it when I get to work most mornings.

I have seen people who cannot find work that they can do, be it through disabilty, illness or just not being able to physically cope with the demands required. As long as they are happy enough with their life the way it is and do not complain without trying to make it better it is all fine by me.

Your not the one being called names

Really? See comment 109.

What do I have to be offended about?
You twisting my suggestion that you go and help the victims of Saturday night into something it was not for a start.

Despite DMD’s suggestion, I’m still sceptical that you are unable to at least do some charity work.

FC and DMD need to go study the term ‘enabler.’

I have a good understanding of the term ‘enabler’ thanks.

Terms that spring to my mind would be, “short sightedness”, “complex”, and “ignorance”

Deadmandrinking said :

However, if the market is in the hands of no-one, that means it’s singular objective is to make those at the top of the chain richer. It creates an unfavorable professional world for those who aren’t business-inclined.

You cannot have a truly ‘free’ market without a good deal of people losing out.

I think the fundamental flaw in that line of thinking is the concept that the market can be in the hands of no one and could possibly have a singular objective. Firstly the market is in the hands of everyone as the ‘market’ is merely the sum of everyones economic dealings with each other (whether profitable, charitable, etc). The ‘market’ represents a plurality of objectives.

Certainly economic power is strong however allowing a free market ameliorates this power to a significant degree. If you have some examples to back up your claim I want to ponder them.

I’m not an anarcho-capitalist, I’m not saying let’s have no Government and no Government involvement, I’m simply saying that involvement should be limited and that we must always remember that actions have unintended consequences.

neanderthalsis2:35 pm 09 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

However, if the market is in the hands of no-one, that means it’s singular objective is to make those at the top of the chain richer. It creates an unfavorable professional world for those who aren’t business-inclined.

You cannot have a truly ‘free’ market without a good deal of people losing out.

Welcome to life.

Ambition and motivation play a significant role in defining who we are and what we do. Sportspeople are motivated to succeed, researchers are motivated to succeed and investment bankers are motivated to succeed. If you cruise along with the current of life, you don’t always end up at the top, but of you fight the current, you can you can get there (or end up as shark food).

Pommy bastard2:32 pm 09 Feb 09

dexi said :

………………and so it goes on. You are all so ready to believe in the bludger that you see him everywhere.

While you carry on reinforcing the impression of dole bludgers that we have.

One would almost start to believe that you have something against the unemployed that you would want to give them such a bad reputation.

“I do however, take offence with someone who is in one of those categories, who has a major attitude towards those who are supporting them.”

You take offence. Your not the one being called names. Your the one with a job and cash. What do you have to be offended about. oh that’s right people who do not work.

The community the government looks after includes people who don’t work. The Government represent all of us not just taxpayers.

Deadmandrinking2:30 pm 09 Feb 09

However, if the market is in the hands of no-one, that means it’s singular objective is to make those at the top of the chain richer. It creates an unfavorable professional world for those who aren’t business-inclined.

You cannot have a truly ‘free’ market without a good deal of people losing out.

neanderthalsis2:28 pm 09 Feb 09

jakez, good to see another small “l” liberal out there.

Deadmandrinking said :

‘propped up predatory financial practice’

That’d never happen if we just gave the market free reign…

I’m sure it would DMD, nobody claims that the free market means everyone dances and sings in a joy filled meadow with posies and roses (and whatever other type of flower market forces demand) however it’s all about properly apportioning risk.

I’m not saying that ‘Corporate Greed’ wasn’t a factor in this crisis, I’m saying that the corporate greed would not have set off such a chain of events without the underlying Government intervention and in my opinion poor US monetary policy over the last decade.

As above was mentioned, Fanny and Freddie were basically doing what they were set up by the US Government to do. The sub prime market shouldn’t exist and wouldn’t have existed without the US Govenrnment setting up these organisations, funding and subsidising them, directing them to engage in sub prime loans, and provide an implicit guarantee.

If you individualise the reward, and collectivise the risk, bad things happen. That is not the free market.

Having the Government and big business get together (corporatism) is a very dangerous thing, and classical liberals sounded this warning long before social democrats existed.

Deadmandrinking2:24 pm 09 Feb 09

But when they do die further up in the chain, they take alot of people down with them.

neanderthalsis2:23 pm 09 Feb 09

It would DMD, but not for long. the free market has its ways of dealing with inefficient businesses. They die, usually quickly, sometimes a slow and lingering death but at the end, all you have is some bones and the smell of rotting executives. It’s like a wildebeest with a broken leg in the midst of a pack of cheetahs. Think of the free maret as economic Darwinism.

FC and DMD need to go study the term ‘enabler.’

Deadmandrinking2:19 pm 09 Feb 09

The Brad said :

DMD,

I think that’s ambiguous
I am also not “required” to look for a job. But I choose to.

REfer to comment 118. It’s Dexi’s attitude that is creating this vitriol, not the circumstance.

Ummm…we’re talking about Centrelink here. They make you look for work unless you can’t for whatever reason.

Completely agree with you, FC

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

You want to live in this society and make stupid amounts of money, you be prepared to pay taxes based on your income.

So when dexi ‘takes’ your money, it’s hard-earned and so unjust. But when you take my money, that’s OK because I have ‘stupid amounts’ of it.

I’m happy to pay tax and for those taxes to help people like dexi. I even pay more than I need by giving to charity. All I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of people who claim dexi is some kind of parasite when they do their own fair share of sucking at teats. That ‘whooshing’ sound isn’t your neighbour watching Top Gun.

My defence is that I spend every day advocating for change.

Well that and that I take a lifecycle approach to trying to get back my tax money.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:18 pm 09 Feb 09

Some US companies were required to, by financing homes for lenders who were completely unviable.

Deadmandrinking2:15 pm 09 Feb 09

‘propped up predatory financial practice’

That’d never happen if we just gave the market free reign…

neanderthalsis2:15 pm 09 Feb 09

Actually, when you look at the sub-prime “crisis” in the US last year, there was relatively few actual forclosures, it was only when governments started underwriting that debt that we got in the poo.

Toward those who are supporting them. What a crock. The government pays them, a very small amount too.
we would still be paying taxes even if people weren’t on the doll.
And just becuase one person does work/pay taxes, and one person doesn’t, doesn’t mean that one should automatically be appreciative of the other.
Taxes go to many things. Educations, road, healthcare for the ederly.
so my friends who has kids had better be grateful to ME, who is supporting their childs education.
And my Nan, that woman, no appreciation, doesn’t she realise that it was MY taxes that pay for her discounted prescriptions.

I work to support myself, not others.
A small amount of my tax paid may go toward the Centrelink allowances of my fellow Australians, but that by no means is me supporting them.
I am choosing to work becuase there is no way I could live of the tiny amount of money that is the dole. I would be miserable not having the freedom that financial independence provides me.
Lets not kid ourselves by thinking that it is a life of “recreation”.
The dole is shit. if it was so great then wouldn’t we all just quit work and go on the dole? But we don’t because who wants to live on a couple of hundred a week.
Not me, that’s for sure.

DMD,

I think that’s ambiguous
I am also not “required” to look for a job. But I choose to.

REfer to comment 118. It’s Dexi’s attitude that is creating this vitriol, not the circumstance.

Don’t forget the bogus insurance on bad debt.

Deadmandrinking2:10 pm 09 Feb 09

So…not the fact that US companies were giving bad debt?

neanderthalsis2:08 pm 09 Feb 09

It was big government corporate and social welfare combined with ineffective monetary policy that got us where we are now. Arificially driven demand propped up predatory financial practices, governments complained about inflation and genie bottles, confidence was shattered by a few ill timed quips.

The economic theroies of the social democrat got us hee, not the free market.

Deadmandrinking2:05 pm 09 Feb 09

Duke and the Brad, refer to comment 111

I think you’ll find that a lot of those comments are directed at you, not at people on welfare.

I don’t have a problem supporting someone who is ill/disabled, and is unable to work. They are not a bludger.

I also don’t have a problem with supporting someone unemployed who is trying to better themselves, or is in the unfortunate circumstance of being stuck in a rut because of reasons beyond their control. They are not a bludger.

And I don’t have a problem supporting someone who is in an unpaid job, helping the unfortunate. They are definately not a bludger.

I do however, take offense with someone who is in one of those categories, who has a major attitude towards those who are supporting them.

dexi, you still haven’t given us a single decent reason as to why you don’t/won’t work

Deadmandrinking2:01 pm 09 Feb 09

That philosophy kind of got us into the sh-thole we’re in now…

neanderthalsis2:00 pm 09 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

Do you even have a mild concept of how much money is spent in government?

It ain’t chump change.

I do DMD, believe me I do…

And I cringe at big spending big government. Let the free market reign.

“Are you trolling us all, and just having a laugh from your boring desk job?”

I was always way to useful in the field for a desk job. Average Joe has the desk job.

I’m not trolling. I think a lot of how people judge welfare is unfounded and derogatory.
As an example.

‘the self indulgent and lazy, whilst people who slog out a living every day have to pay for this social destruction.’

‘squandering their money on cigarettes, alcohol, big screen TVs and gambling!’

“they could always just f**k off to another part of the world where you get NOTHING from the government, and then maybe appreciate what they have?!”

“there are an alarming number of those who will continue to want hand outs, with never any real intention of doing anything for themselves. To then consider suing the Gov! Again, I propose that Dr Philip Nitschke could offer some superb suggestions to alleviate this little problem.”

“Unless you are one of the scum considering suing the Gov for being poor,”

“Get a job”

“stop thinking you’re entitled to live off the sweat of our brows.”

“Their life of leisure’

“That would then mean that all of us are entitled, and seeing as it’s taxes that allow for this welfare we’d be pretty much screwed.”

“Perhaps open you eyes to whats going on in the rest of the world and you might just consider yourself lucky.”

“Better get a job then.”

“And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

“You don’t help these people by being an enabler and making excuses for them.”

‘one third of my Woolies earnings is taken by the government to help keep deadbeats like dexi in smokes and comfortably unemployed.”

“Do I think I’m responsible for helping able people to have free access to things I work for? No.”

“The average working Joe that you parasite off!”

“You may be a self addmited houseo dole bludger and apologist, but the comments made in this thread make you out to be a complete scumbag maggot.”

“Go and get a job. Stop being lazy. Become a dish-pig, water boy, anything. Contribute to society. You are bleeding the system dry of my tax dollars that could put another tree in Stanhopes garden.”

“it would be fairer all round to have a single tax rate “

“‘dole bludgers”

“I already know what an uncaring piece of unemployed crap you are.”

………………and so it goes on. You are all so ready to believe in the bludger that you see him everywhere.

Deadmandrinking1:57 pm 09 Feb 09

Do you even have a mild concept of how much money is spent in government?

It ain’t chump change.

neanderthalsis1:51 pm 09 Feb 09

Deadmandrinking said :

Tylers, I think you’re a little delusional. I didn’t say only people who earn over 70K pay for Dexi, I said, quite clearly, that welfare does not drain taxes to the scale you’re implying and that I think it’s necessary, because I believe that everyone in this country has a right to food, water, shelter and information. Welfare just covers that.

You seem to have a narrow view of welfare DMD.

Add together the Newstart payments, family tax benefits A & B, PPS, PPP, DSP, Carers support, costs of health care cards, mobility allowances, Austudy, ABSTUDY, first home buyers grant, Plasma TV allowance (aka baby bonus), relocation allowances for farmers, exceptional circumstances grants, $950 handouts to all and sundry, business start up grants, innovation grants export grants, propping up the automotive industry (and the list goes on)… I think that is a considerable drain on our economy and the taxpayer (individual and business)

A billion here, a billion there, and sooner or later you’re talking about real money.

Deadmandrinking1:44 pm 09 Feb 09

I think you should take note of one line in Dexi’s comments ‘Fortunately I am not required to look for a job.’

Those conditions are only ever for a reason.

the first person who mentions the fires as a way of showing what a uncaring piece of unemployed crap I really am.

I suggested you go and help. That was in no way a comparison. I already know what an uncaring piece of unemployed crap you are.

If you don’t want a paid job with set hours, at least help for free at your own pace.

When I logged on I thought I had to call a wanker, the first person who mentions the fires as a way of showing what a uncaring piece of unemployed crap I really am.

Wanker.

Its a massive tragedy. I hope the fires end soon. A lot of people know what its like to lose everything.

Dexi, I find it hard to believe that you can truly be this callous. And some of your comments just don’t make logical sense.

Are you trolling us all, and just having a laugh from your boring desk job?

Dexi – most people don’t begrudge folks out of work the dole, access to adequate healthcare, legal representation or a modicum of respect; but don’t like being taken for a ride. Your admission to taking the dole while demonstrating no particular desire to return to work feels a lot like being taken for a ride. You don’t seem to be have any reason for remaining on the dole, other than an unwillingness to just deal with the fact that work can suck.

If work does suck, expecting others to suffer on your behalf is pretty reprehensible. I don’t see how being on the dole, rather than getting your money from criminal activity, makes it okay.

You might say it’s just misery loving company, but it’s just galling having to put up with some of the crap people deal with at work every day so you don’t have to.

If you were ill, or had some other “real” reason for being on the dole; I think there would be far fewer people getting stuck in.

Actually, I’ll take that back.
Victoria does not need you. There are far more worthy homeless people there.

So, how are going to survive on $10 without resorting to “fraud, theft, or prostitution”

Do you think begging is legal? Or will you resort to being a even greater parasite and scrounge off your friends?

If you don’t work, maybe you could at least do some charity work? Victoria needs you right now. I’ll pay for your bus trip.

Deadmandrinking1:26 pm 09 Feb 09

Tylers, I think you’re a little delusional. I didn’t say only people who earn over 70K pay for Dexi, I said, quite clearly, that welfare does not drain taxes to the scale you’re implying and that I think it’s necessary, because I believe that everyone in this country has a right to food, water, shelter and information. Welfare just covers that.

Dexi – rice, lentils.

I don’t think I looked for any sympathy. Quite the opposite it would seem. Fortunately I am not required to look for a job. I have all week to apply myself to eating.

What I did look for was a fair go for the unemployed, poor and ill. The right to have fair access to the court sytem and protection by human rights.

What I got was how we are just a bunch of lazy maggots.

tylersmayhem1:10 pm 09 Feb 09

Tyler your wish has come true. With only $10 left and nine days to go, your tax dollars will not be feeding me.

Enjoy that $10 packet of cigs Dexi. You’re not getting my sympathy. Now…maybe look for a job?

Big night on the piss left you with no money Dexi?

Tyler your wish has come true. With only $10 left and nine days to go, your tax dollars will not be feeding me.

tylersmayhem12:51 pm 09 Feb 09

Post #97

Oh so close to Flame Of The Week, but unfortunately missing the give-away CAPS. So close Dexi.

That’s right, you’ve found another reason to convince yourself to never have to work again with us a**eholes in the work force. After lack of appreciation of us a**eholes funding your existence, if I had the option to stop feeding you, I would.

Tyler “So it seems even more ridiculous that dish pigs and waiters are paying their tax dollars after working 70 hour weeks to help pay for those like Dexi.”

This is a comment that smells of a sane “work ethic”. Work 70hr weeks will make you ill. Don’t do it. Its crap ideas like this that make me happy not to be in the workforce.

This thread is a great example of dole bashing. Yes I am proud to be a maggot, scum, “dole bludger”. Why. Because I am on welfare and survive without fraud, theft, or prostitution.

The average Joe sounds like an ignorant, selfish, greedy, wife basher who takes pleasure in putting down homos and blacks. He/she avoids paying as much tax as he/she can. He/she cheats with hookers and his wife’s best friend. Then spends the day telling us how much money he has. He especially thinks that welfare recipients should not get basic human rights as they are just lazy bludging maggots who should get a job or die. “I know cause I met one at the shops.”

Many of you show no understanding of poverty. Some of you are just ignorant average Joe’s.

All this abuse does nothing for the poor. It just remindes me how many asshole’s are in the workforce.

tylersmayhem12:04 pm 09 Feb 09

I am happy to help dexi too. I just find it a little strange when people who are earning enough to live a luxurious life ten times over are crying poor over taxes.

Are you delusional DMD? Do you somehow think it’s only those who live “luxurious” lives taxes that pay from people like Dexi? Everyone who pays taxes contribute to his blatant and smug laziness. So it seems even more ridiculous that dish pigs and waiters are paying their tax dollars after working 70 hour weeks to help pay for those like Dexi.

I also sounds like you have a rather large chip on your shoulders for those who live in more comfort. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that in the majority of cases it’s becuase these said people have worked long, hard and made ballsy decisions to get where they are. They’ve made the most out of what life offers them and work hard to get where they are.

The Defence forces at the moment are crying out for people. There is plenty of work out there, you just need to be prepared to get off your lazy dole bludging arse and go find it. I’m all for the work for the dole system – If you receive handouts then you work for them, at the same time gain a qualification/skill sets etc that would help you find more employment.

Dexi can use a computer so go find a data entry job.

Pommy bastard8:29 am 09 Feb 09

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I hope all of you whinging about welfare bludgers earn more than $70K a year – otherwise, you’re one of the people bludging off people like me, a member of the lucky 12.1% of Australians who bear 46.8% of its income tax burden. You also bludge off company taxes, indirect taxes, rich people’s GST etc. If you think your piddling income tax and GST contributions come anywhere close to paying for the government services you consume, you’re delusional.

Ok, so anyone earning under $70 kpa can now quit working and live off the taxation of the high earners and the “multinational conglomerates.

That’s a good plan.

Unfortunately as I am in the high tax bracket I’ll have to continue, however those who work in my firm for lower wages can all now stop.

This is brilliant, Dexi could be the salvation of every postman, dustbin man, waitress, checkout girl and office cleaner.

Why bother working when you earn less than $70, as your contribution is meaningless, and you are really just poncing off the high earners!

And as for anyone who does voluntary work? Suckers and parasites too

Actually, from the comment made by dexi in this thread, it seems like dexi is a huge parasite and even worse happy and proud to be one.

Deadmandrinking11:42 pm 08 Feb 09

It’s alright, I understand, I was going against you for the other reason.

We agree on welfare.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:38 pm 08 Feb 09

My apologies DMD – I had my wires crossed, and mistook your views on taxation for a stand against welfare.

Deadmandrinking8:02 pm 08 Feb 09

I am happy to help dexi too. I just find it a little strange when people who are earning enough to live a luxurious life ten times over are crying poor over taxes.

I don’t agree with a single tax rate. I think if you earn more, you should be taxed more – and that it should be based on what you earn overall as well. You gain your riches in this country while you are using services provided by the government and taxpayers – transport, land, protection, the basic freedom to go out there and make a living instead of toiling on a field your whole life for the lucky first-comer family. If you make a killing in this favourable environment – expect to be asked to give back some of this into the community.

Dexi is not a parasite. The overall cost of welfare is bullsh*t-all compared to alot of other wastes of the budget. Everybody in this country has a right to food, shelter, public transport and information. $200-250 a week covers that. It’s not like anyone is living in the lap of luxury on that much.

Woody Mann-Caruso7:07 pm 08 Feb 09

You want to live in this society and make stupid amounts of money, you be prepared to pay taxes based on your income.

So when dexi ‘takes’ your money, it’s hard-earned and so unjust. But when you take my money, that’s OK because I have ‘stupid amounts’ of it.

I’m happy to pay tax and for those taxes to help people like dexi. I even pay more than I need by giving to charity. All I’m doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of people who claim dexi is some kind of parasite when they do their own fair share of sucking at teats. That ‘whooshing’ sound isn’t your neighbour watching Top Gun.

I would expect tax minimisation to continue to increase in the future, the reasoning should be evident when the tax rates for high income earners are compared to similarly developed countries around the world. People will complain about regressive taxation (apparently that’s inherently evil) but consumption-based tax systems are the future.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

VY “… it would be fairer all round to have a single tax rate (for all individuals and companies), and to give individuals a tax free threshold (which could be altered to adjust how much tax people actually paid)…”

But a ‘single tax rate’ on what? Income? The wealthy already minimise their income for tax purposes. I suspect a flat rate tax would be abused in a similar way.

In my (former) industry there were people with $100,000 cars who also had a health care card. Such people can hardly complain about ‘dole bludgers’, -they themselves are abusing the system. It is only the poor sods on PAYE who can’t escape.

I’m all for cracking down on welfare cheats -at both ends of the spectrum. The loopholes, dodges and rorts have been occurring for years, but there is not the political will to fix the problem. Nobody wants to alienate the welfare industry OR business.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy5:51 pm 08 Feb 09

You want to live in this society and make stupid amounts of money, you be prepared to pay taxes based on your income.

Fair enough, but with that approach be prepared for higher income earners to aggressively minimise their tax bill. If society is prepared to levy higher tax rates on some individuals, then it needs to be prepared for these individuals to do what they can to defend their incomes.

It seems to me that it would be fairer all round to have a single tax rate (for all individuals and companies), and to give individuals a tax free threshold (which could be altered to adjust how much tax people actually paid). We would then have a single rate for all, and the incentive to hide money inside legal entities like companies would be greatly reduced.

Deadmandrinking4:09 pm 08 Feb 09

Woody – let me introduce you to the government, who’s bailing out the massive companies many who earn over 70K work for, once again.

You want to live in this society and make stupid amounts of money, you be prepared to pay taxes based on your income. If not, move over and let someone who will take your position. I’ve got little time for no-second-boat crybabies who don’t seem to understand that after tax, they still have more money than people who earn less.

Also VG, I think you’ll find less people want to f-k goats than sue the government for any reason they can.

Woody Mann-Caruso12:28 pm 08 Feb 09

Sounds like the Chewbacca Defence to me: “If you can marry a goat in Afghanistan, you can’t sue the ACT government for not providing adequate housing in violation of human rights law!”

you re-elected the morons that introduced this type of legislation

I doubt there are many here who voted in the Australian Government that supported the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948, or the Australian Government that signed the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights or the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights in 1966, both of which made the UDHR binding on party states. Adequate housing was a legal right long before any amendment to some two-bit ACT legislation.

dexi said :

Refusal may be misleading and imply I have some control in the matter.

So being on welfare means you can not complain. It still amazes me at the calls for less stuff and harsher punishment for welfare recipients. Or in this case the denial of justice.

I am not sure I was complaining. Oh I forgot, I have no-right to anything because I receive welfare or is it because I’m scum. I keep forgetting.

Dexi doesn’t. Work.

Go and get a job. Stop being lazy. Become a dish-pig, water boy, anything. Contribute to society. You are bleeding the system dry of my tax dollars that could put another tree in Stanhopes garden.

Ha Dexi You don’t work for the MUA (Maritime Union of Australia) do you? The laziest most expensive least productive work force I have ever had the displeasure to work with anywhere on the planet. Its a disgraceful extortionist organization and I do hope for Australia’s sake that Rudd’s union reforms don’t spread this work ethic to the rest of the country.

“I’m sure, under some obscure Afghani law it is legally ‘possible’ for me to marry a goat. I see no queue at Air Kabul trying to get there and do it though.”

Yep you get that in some countries in Africa as well. There was a court case a couple of years ago where the judge sentenced the man to marry a goat.

Dear “Dr.” Watchirs

There are plenty of things that are “possible” under human rights legislation. The difference between possible and laughable is what you should be considering.

I’m sure, under some obscure Afghani law it is legally ‘possible’ for me to marry a goat. I see no queue at Air Kabul trying to get there and do it though.

I’d advise you to take a peek out your door or through your office window. Through it you will see the real world where the actual people live. Run your brilliant idea past a few of them. They may ‘possibly’ disagree with you.

Remember people, you re-elected the morons that introduced this type of legislation. Now you’re starting to see the sh*t fight it will create

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy8:42 am 08 Feb 09

hope all of you whinging about welfare bludgers earn more than $70K a year – otherwise, you’re one of the people bludging off people like me, a member of the lucky 12.1% of Australians who bear 46.8% of its income tax burden. You also bludge off company taxes, indirect taxes, rich people’s GST etc. If you think your piddling income tax and GST contributions come anywhere close to paying for the government services you consume, you’re delusional.

Harsh. But true.

Woody Mann-Caruso8:32 am 08 Feb 09

I hope all of you whinging about welfare bludgers earn more than $70K a year – otherwise, you’re one of the people bludging off people like me, a member of the lucky 12.1% of Australians who bear 46.8% of its income tax burden. You also bludge off company taxes, indirect taxes, rich people’s GST etc. If you think your piddling income tax and GST contributions come anywhere close to paying for the government services you consume, you’re delusional.

The average working Joe that you parasite off!

Let me introduce you to the multinational mining conglomerate you parasite off. Oh, I’m sorry – I see you’re too busy masturbating over that picture of Margaret Thatcher.

stop trolling dexi. You may be a self addmited houseo dole bludger and apologist, but the comments made in this thread make you out to be a complete scumbag maggot.

Leftist crap! how about we all just praise the worker and give them lots of money for doing jobs that most computers can do far more effectively …

Pommy bastard11:47 am 07 Feb 09

dexi said :

No one works to provide me anything. You all work for your own self interest. A lot of you certainly know the value of helping yourself. I wont begrudge you that or wish you dead.

Who harvests and produces the food you eat Dexi? Who transports it to the shops? Who manufactors the clothes you wear? Who builds the place you occupy?

The average working Joe that you parasite off!

neanderthalsis10:05 am 07 Feb 09

dexi said :

Taxpayers are such a bunch of whining cheap skates.

Yes Dexi, some of us do take exception at seeing our tax dollars funding the lifestyle choices of others who choose to make little financial contribution of their own.

I have decided that, for the good of the country, taxpayers should be allocated people on welfare to do menial tasks about the home for them, how long you can access them for is based on how much tax you pay. I see it as a sort of return of servise type arrangment, we essentially pay them, so they should work for us. I paid enough tax last year to pay for 12 months of Newstart payments for 2 people, so under my scheme, I should have 2 full time welfare recipients mowing my lawns and dusting my house. It’s like Work for the Dole but better for the community.

You know it makes sense…

Talking about housing in Canberra, if they want to beautify Civic why not provide blinds or curtains for the housing trust tenants along Northbourne instead of the flowers in Civic

Dexi, the only thing I will say to you is that if you aren’t currently working as a ‘lifestyle choice’ – then don’t stay like that for too long! 🙂

I was unemployed for about a year at one stage in the early 1990s – and I found it very hard to get back into the workforce after being out of work for that length of time. It took me quite a while to prove to anyone that I was a useful human being and that I could be trusted to do a job and turn up for work.

Of course, now I look back and think “how the hell did I afford to live on such a small amount of money for all that time???”. Two minute noodles and 99c loaves of bread from the local supermarket were my saviour on many an evening! 🙂

No one works to provide me anything. You all work for your own self interest. A lot of you certainly know the value of helping yourself. I wont begrudge you that or wish you dead.

Taxpayers are such a bunch of whining cheap skates.

Yarn………. Think I need a nap now.

Pommy bastard4:23 pm 06 Feb 09

dexi said :

Essential is water, food, cooking facility. A toilet and poo tickets. A warm dry place to sleep and a good mattress. A lock-up place to store possessions. Shower and clean cloths. Laughter. Nicotine. Transport.

You’re quite right Dexi all those are essential. Thank the poor sods who work to provide them for you.

If it wan’t for them and their efforts, what would you do to gain what you feel are essentials? God forbid you’d work to get them.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy4:18 pm 06 Feb 09

There’s lots of jobs for those who want to work odd hours, and/or study. I worked two part time jobs for 5 years while I did my undergrad degree.

Deciding not to work, is, in my opinion, slack.

Dexi, if everyone tried to do what you do everyone would be worse off.

Doesn’t it worry you to be living in violation of the Categorical Imperative?

My nightshift job was just an example, DMD. Can’t work nights or don’t like heavy lifting? – work in the deli!

Also, I work an 8 hour shift at one job, have a two hour break then off to Woolies for a five hour shift………so I tend to dislike softies who tell me night-fill is too physically demanding.

Deadmandrinking3:19 pm 06 Feb 09

Duke said :

I recently took a second job packing shelves at Woolies. It’s boring, repetitive, physical work but it pays almost $20 an hour, requires no real skills or education and gets you damn fit, and guess what? They can’t find enough people to do it.

The average person doing this job can earn around $400 a week for four nights work.

And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

Whatever you do, do not say yes when they offer part-time. Pay goes down dramatically and they’ll harass you more and not let you stay back as much. That’s why I thought screw it, I’m just going to study instead.

Also, I seriously don’t think it’s a job for everyone. Some people may not be physically up to the task, usually for the reasons that see them on the dole anyway. Some people may not be able to transport themselves back late at night. I don’t drive, so I walked back through Kippax, Higgins and Scullin – I only get to do that because I’m slightly taller and bigger than the average guy. I can’t imagine some people would be too keen on a similar trip.

Madame Workalot3:08 pm 06 Feb 09

Thanks Dexi.

I work because I feel pride in being able to support myself and buy things I want as well as things I need. It makes me sad that some people (and I’m not directing this at you, because I honestly don’t know) don’t have the desire to feel that.

What do I consider essential? Not an internet connection, as it is provided at other locations (indeed, I don’t have an internet connection at home because I can’t justify the cost of it). A phone I’d have to agree with, as public payphones are now in scant supply. However, I think it’s only essential for my phone to be able to call the authorities in the case of an emergency.

Water, food (with or without cooking facilities as necessary) and shelter are essential. A toilet, toilet paper, toothpaste, toothbrush, soap, hairbrush are essential. I don’t view a good mattress as essential – people have gotten by on a lot less. A shower and clean clothes is covered in water – I don’t think it’s necessary to have an actual shower as a bucket would suffice, and a washing machine is a luxury that most of us view as an essential item.

Laughter is not a material thing, but I agree – it is essential. Nicotine – I really really hope you’re joking. Transport – we are our own form of transport.

I think that’s pretty much all the material things that humans need to survive (with some arguable items like hairbrush). Do I live solely on those items? No – but I can buy other things with the money I earn. Do I think I’m responsible for helping able people to have free access to things I work for? No.

Mr Evil – you betcha I get hammered. A bit less than one third of my Woolies earnings is taken by the government to help keep deadbeats like dexi in smokes and comfortably unemployed.

Though I’m not sure what will happen at tax time – i’ve also got a HECS debt to pay off – hopefully I will get something back.

M-Workalot. I could give endless flipant remarks as to why. I get no argument from my job provider, who is more than happy with my progress. May I ask why you work?

I would say there is a lot of difference in what we think essential. For instance I may take offence to being told that an internet connection is not. When I know it is an essential service. Much like a phone. If you want to call me you can’t as I’ve lost my phone.

Essential is water, food, cooking facility. A toilet and poo tickets. A warm dry place to sleep and a good mattress. A lock-up place to store possessions. Shower and clean cloths. Laughter. Nicotine. Transport.

What would you consider essential.

Get a good accountant son.

Duke said :

I recently took a second job packing shelves at Woolies. It’s boring, repetitive, physical work but it pays almost $20 an hour, requires no real skills or education and gets you damn fit, and guess what? They can’t find enough people to do it.

The average person doing this job can earn around $400 a week for four nights work.

And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

Duke, just curious, but do you hammered for tax on the Woolies job because it is a second job?

Madame Workalot2:04 pm 06 Feb 09

Is there a reason you can’t work Dexi?

I’d also be interested to know what you consider essentials – surely there’d be some difference between what you think and what I think.

Just some good old dole bashing.

“Better get a lawyer son. Better get a real good one.”

@jakez – depends on which supermarket you work at as to how flexible they are. I already work a full-time job and I generally work 3 shifts a week at Woolies, 7pm until midnight – tho many people stay as late as 2am. I am constantly offered more shifts than I can handle.

You just need to apply on Coles and Woolies websites – I got a call back within 12 hours!

tylersmayhem1:22 pm 06 Feb 09

I’m not struggling or anything (although I might possibly lose the full time job in a month), I’m just saving up for a home loan and I don’t mind working nights.

Nice one Jakez. Good luck with the saving mate, it’s not easy hey – but worth it when you get the keys to your home.

tylersmayhem1:18 pm 06 Feb 09

I think Dexi has previously said that a library connection is used.

I don’t know of a library that allows all day access. Whenever I’ve used them, it is a limit of an hour per day.

Duke said :

I recently took a second job packing shelves at Woolies. It’s boring, repetitive, physical work but it pays almost $20 an hour, requires no real skills or education and gets you damn fit, and guess what? They can’t find enough people to do it.

The average person doing this job can earn around $400 a week for four nights work.

And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

I’m seriously thinking about getting a job like this. I don’t know whether I can fit it in because it would mean I’d have three jobs on the go (1 full time, 2 casual) but I need the money. I’m not struggling or anything (although I might possibly lose the full time job in a month), I’m just saving up for a home loan and I don’t mind working nights.

What are the hours eg, 8-12 and is total volume flexible (can you do 1 night if you want or 4 nights or 3 nights, does it vary)?

FC said :

Do we know that Dexi is not at a library?

Dexi posted during times no ACT library is open, I didn’t look at Queanbeyan library opening hours.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy1:11 pm 06 Feb 09

I’m wondering if Dexi is (successfully) winding us up here…

There’s not as lot of work from home as a typist anymore – I know – i’ve looked!

If I don’t like it I can sue for more. Sounds like a basic right everyone else has. The right to employ a lawyer.

I think Dexi has previously said that a library connection is used.

My point is that someone who is able to sit in front of a computer commenting on here all day seems fine to be able to work.

FC said :

Do we know that Dexi is not at a library?
Or using an internet connection at a friend/families house?
I recall mention of no cost for accomodation, which would indicate to me that they don’t have their own home..

Well if he/she is not working then somebody is paying for it, right? The taxpayer pays for libraries and free internet facilities, and somebody is paying for his/her accomodation?

You don’t help these people by being an enabler and making excuses for them.

Do we know that Dexi is not at a library?
Or using an internet connection at a friend/families house?
I recall mention of no cost for accomodation, which would indicate to me that they don’t have their own home..

mutley said :

Given Dexi is able to spend all day on RiotACT, I’d suggest he/she is also able to hold down a job.

She can also afford a computer and decent internet connection. Or do they both constitute ‘necessities of life’ nowadays?

Given Dexi is able to spend all day on RiotACT, I’d suggest he/she is also able to hold down a job.

dexi said :

Actually I am entitled to live off the your smelly sweatiness.

Entitled only in the same manner that a business favoured by the mafia is entitled to have a monopoly in the region that the mafia controls.

tylersmayhem12:26 pm 06 Feb 09

And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

Nice one Duke. I have also been in similar circumstances before, when you do whatever it takes to make ends meet. I hop it continues to go well for you.

As for your quote, I think “refuse to work” is more the situation. Keep up the hard yards mate, and you know it will pay off in time 🙂

I recently took a second job packing shelves at Woolies. It’s boring, repetitive, physical work but it pays almost $20 an hour, requires no real skills or education and gets you damn fit, and guess what? They can’t find enough people to do it.

The average person doing this job can earn around $400 a week for four nights work.

And yet we still have people on the dole “looking for work” or “can’t find work.”

tylersmayhem12:01 pm 06 Feb 09

My point exactly neanderthalsis. I was just trying to give Dexi the benefit of the doubt.

neanderthalsis11:54 am 06 Feb 09

dexi said :

“What true living expenses do you have, and how much are you out of pocket by?”

The same living expenses you have, less accommodation. My pockets are always empty.

Whilst I don’t know much about your current living arrangements Dexi,if you’re on Newstart you’d get $449.30 of you’re single, more with Kids, less if you’re living with an earning partner; but generally aroung the 400 – 500 a fortnight.

You’ve already stated you have no accommodation expenses, so that $450 needs to cover food, fuel and other living expenses. Are you suggesting this can’t be done?

tylersmayhem11:47 am 06 Feb 09

The same living expenses you have, less accommodation.

I think there are some pretty broad assumptions going on here when you say “the same expenses you have”.

I dunno – do you buy booze, tobacco, playstation games, gamble, educational book/manuals, do you have a pet and the expenses that goes with having one, do you eat a tonne of junk food?

This is what I’m trying to gauge here mate.

Better get a job then.

tylersmayhem11:29 am 06 Feb 09

Obviously I am worthless with no brains and should be dead.

Dude – you really seriously need some help if your self-esteem is that low. I mean it!

As for the Nitschke – I you took that quote as truly literal, please see my last sentence. It was more an black humor suggestion rather than a true “wish”. Whatever.

Now, I’m still hoping you will respond to post #34.

“What true living expenses do you have, and how much are you out of pocket by?”

The same living expenses you have, less accommodation. My pockets are always empty.

Tyler “I don’t recall “wishing” anyone dead”

Recall this
“I propose that Dr Philip Nitschke could offer some superb suggestions to alleviate this little problem.”

I must have miss read your proposal tyler and again your intentions.

“makes me further question your intellect, value to the human race and why I should have to live amongst people like you.”

Obviously I am worthless with no brains and should be dead.

tylersmayhem11:11 am 06 Feb 09

If you are on welfare then you should at least be able to meet the cost of living. If you cant then it needs to be reviewed.

Now don’t take this as being a smarta**e Dexi, becuase I am truly interested. What true living expenses do you have, and how much are you out of pocket by?

It sucks if this is the case Dexi

If you meet the requirements and obligations you too can live in poverty. But why would you if you didn’t have to, is more my argument in general.

If you are on welfare then you should at least be able to meet the cost of living. If you cant then it needs to be reviewed. At this end of society you have no power or control. Isn’t this the point of this thread. The mechanism of review.

I am entitled. I meet all my obligations and requirements. Its not a unique situation.

tylersmayhem10:23 am 06 Feb 09

Wishing them dead is…..( I am lost for ######)

I don’t recall “wishing” anyone dead. As for my previous comments – yes, I believe it’s beyone slack that some willingly take from the Government – and then would consider suing for more.

Perhaps open you eyes to whats going on in the rest of the world and you might just consider yourself lucky.

As for your grotesque comments as to where you would like to stick your hand – I’m astounded that JB has not hit the MOD button, and really it makes me further question your intellect, value to the human race and why I should have to live amongst people like you.

Madame Workalot10:04 am 06 Feb 09

Amen Neanderthalsis. I agree entirely.

Not sure I can see where you’re coming from Dexi – do you believe that you are uniquely entitled? If so, why?

If you don’t believe you are uniquely entitled, where does that leave your argument? That would then mean that all of us are entitled, and seeing as it’s taxes that allow for this welfare we’d be pretty much screwed.

Please don’t allow this to become a slanging match – I’m genuinely interested (and quite intrigued!) in why Dexi holds his/her views.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy10:01 am 06 Feb 09

Trust your employer?!?! I trust my employer about as far as I could throw a piano. It doesn’t stop me from turning up, doing my job and then getting paid, though.

That said, the comments about courts and justice being there for the wealth are spot on. The cost of launching a legal action isn’t small.

neanderthalsis9:32 am 06 Feb 09

I would argue the “live off” side of your argument. If you are genuinely unemployed, you are entitled to assistance from the federal government to aid you in finding paid employment. You are not entitled to a free life funded by the largess of the welfare state we have created. Reluctance to actively seek work or being unwilling to undertake training to better your chances of employment are not legitimate reasons to live on welfare.

If however you suffer from a legitimate disability, then yes, I would say that you do have a right to income support. But then again, simply being on the DSP doesn’t mean you can shirk the world of work. When the former Howard Govt introduced the 2006 welfare reform package, we saw a huge shift of long term unemployed moving from Newstart to the DSP for a variety of rather dubious reasons. Their life of leisure was threatened by the idea that they may be forced into the workforce.

Actually I am entitled to live off the your smelly sweatiness.

Madame Workalot9:16 am 06 Feb 09

Perhaps Dexi has reasons for not working that we don’t know about?

(Although, FWIW, my opinion is that if you are fit and able to work you should have to suffer along with the rest of us)

LOL Thumper,

i was just thinking the same thing myself.

Get a job dexi, and stop thinking you’re entitled to live off the sweat of our brows.

Refusal may be misleading and imply I have some control in the matter.

So being on welfare means you can not complain. It still amazes me at the calls for less stuff and harsher punishment for welfare recipients. Or in this case the denial of justice.

I am not sure I was complaining. Oh I forgot, I have no-right to anything because I receive welfare or is it because I’m scum. I keep forgetting.

Pommy bastard7:16 am 06 Feb 09

But Dexi, didn’t you tell us you were refusing to work until you can find an employer you can trust?

Please don’t complain about your self imposed poverty in that case. Also your chances of suing anyone, even if you are given free legal representation, for your own refusal to work, are nil.

“Those who will continue to want hand outs, with never any real intention of doing anything for themselves. To then consider suing the Gov”

Sure Tyler I would love to sue lots of people. Being poor I already do not have access to fair legal representation in civil manners. Being underprivileged does not give privilege. The legal system is for the wealthy. Not the poor, stupid, and sick people on welfare.

If you see a flood of legal actions I could see two reasons. The first is greedy/smart lawyers expanding their business and profits. The second would be NGO’s challenging the government to raise its basic service levels.

I feel a little abusive. I would love to put my hand out and up your A###.

The poor are already denied justice. Wishing them dead is…..( I am lost for ######)

Comprehend.

tylersmayhem3:44 pm 05 Feb 09

Looking for where I said you’re a public servant…. looking… still looking….

Apologies Overheard, that comment was based on the comments about your wife being in the PS etc etc. I have since noted your comments about your original statement being for a different post.

As for your personal attacks about my comprehension…it’s pretty pathetic mate.

@#17 Tylersmayhem

“you to substantiate claims”
“can you justify your claims”
“your generalisations”

You’re not much good at the reading and comprehension thing, are you. #15 and #16 were my first observations on/off topic.

Looking for where I said you’re a public servant…. looking… still looking….

tylersmayhem3:03 pm 05 Feb 09

Please don’t accuse me of being a troll Overheard, when I have simply asked you to substantiate claims. Don’t be under the impression that I am a public servant who is jaded by your generalisations – I do not work in the public service. If you think my last comments are “slapping others around the chops” then you have some serious issues.

So, can you justify your claims that the majority of employment in Canberra is taxpayer funded? Let me guess, you will reserve the right not to – thats fine. As am I with all the “baseless, unsubstantiated generalisations”. At least I point out that they most likely are at the time I make them.

@#15. Oops! Not OT at all; wrong thread! Troll-slapping comments still stand.

tylersmayhem said :

This is particularly offensive in Canberra where most of us are being paid through taxes

Can you substantiate that claim please Chrispy? Of is this just an assumption of yours based on the age old “Canberra’s full of dull public servants” stereotype.

Facts/figures please…

Tylers, I usually make it a practice to not comment/reply to trolls, but this comment of yours displays a lack of self-awareness that is simply breath-taking.

Go recant all your own baseless, unsubstantiated generalisations before you go slapping others around the chops.

OT, my ex-wife was a steno-sec back in the days before RSI was invented. She’s long since stopped being a public servant, and never claimed any compo that I recall, but I’m sure she’d give quite a bit to rid herself of the pain, pins and needles, sleepless nights, etc.

tylersmayhem2:38 pm 05 Feb 09

This is particularly offensive in Canberra where most of us are being paid through taxes

Can you substantiate that claim please Chrispy? Of is this just an assumption of yours based on the age old “Canberra’s full of dull public servants” stereotype.

Facts/figures please…

To me public housing (and apartments in general) are an indicator that the wage gap is getting too big. This is particularly offensive in Canberra where most of us are being paid through taxes and shouldn’t really be earning more than the average aussie who pays those taxes.

tylersmayhem2:28 pm 05 Feb 09

Also, can public housing tenants claim a breach of their human rights when the housd in a hell hole complex next to drug dealers?

I’d be interested for you to paint me a picture of this “hell hole” you speak of. Then I’d do my best to apply that to some of the public housing that I’ve seen in my travels.

I take offence at your Nitschke comment tyler. F### your work ethics. Plenty of worthless shit in the workforce.

Perhaps you misunderstood my comments Dexi?! Unless you are one of the scum considering suing the Gov for being poor, you should have no reason to be offended by my comments. Are you one of these people Dexi?

Storm in a bucket. Who can afford a lawyer on welfare.

Some people can not do things for themselves, that is why the Government looks after their welfare. Its not like you are going to get anywhere unless you do something for yourself.

I take offence at your Nitschke comment tyler. F### your work ethics. Plenty of worthless shit in the workforce.

It’s not a breach of my human rights to have to pay higher taxes to subsidies the provision of public housing and then rent a place in the highly distorted housing market in Canberra where thereis almost no incentive for private developers actually builld new affordable housing stock, because they’re crowded out by public housing!

Also, can public housing tenants claim a breach of their human rights when the housd in a hell hole complex next to drug dealers?

tylersmayhem12:53 pm 05 Feb 09

Whats that old saying VYBerlina…you can lead a horse to water, but…

This is a world-wide problem, and in Canberra, it’s hardly comparable to most parts of the world. I don’t have an answer, but one thing I do know is that there are underprivileged people who make a go of it, and take it on themselves to achieve (I mean, even look at the window washes on N’bourne) – and there are an alarming number of those who will continue to want hand outs, with never any real intention of doing anything for themselves. To then consider suing the Gov! Again, I propose that Dr Philip Nitschke could offer some superb suggestions to alleviate this little problem.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:48 pm 05 Feb 09

Part of the issue I think is that providing people with these services doesn’t necessarily address the root cause of the issue. We need to find ways to help address the root causes, including ongoing education to improve employability as well as managing household finances.

Ideally, welfare is about giving people a hand when they need it, because as a society we don’t think it’s acceptable to have people starving on the streets. Letting people sue to govt because they’re struggling is probably the worst thing we could do.

This Human Rights stuff could have been really good, but has been turned into a load of bollocks by the human turnips who run with it.

tylersmayhem12:26 pm 05 Feb 09

Dr Helen Watchirs launched a report yesterday on low-income households’ living costs, saying she ”wouldn’t be surprised” if evicted tenants aired their grievances in court should public agencies make it hard for them to meet the costs of living.

Hmmm, an interesting, but non-compelling piece. My immediate question would be – are these people who are likely to attempt to sue the Government going to be investigated, or they themselves means tested to investigate where their money goes. I’d certainly hope if one planned on suing the Government wouldn’t be already squandering their money on cigarettes, alcohol, big screen TVs and gambling!

…if this is the case, they could always just f**k off to another part of the world where you get NOTHING from the government, and then maybe appreciate what they have?!

I know there are likely to be individual cases where this does not apply – and would be interesting reading that point of view. But I think you can all see where I’m going with this.

barking toad said :

The comments just highlight the stupidity of human rights legislation

Exactly!

What planet do these do gooders come from?

There’s a symbiotic relationship that exists between these professionals and the self indulgent and lazy, whilst people who slog out a living every day have to pay for this social destruction.

barking toad12:02 pm 05 Feb 09

The comments just highlight the stupidity of human rights legislation

neanderthalsis11:44 am 05 Feb 09

The report from the ACT Council of Social Service yesterday showed low-income households spent more than two-thirds of their money on essentials.

Basic needs accounted for 69 per cent of the low-income household budget, and 65 per cent of the average Canberra household’s budget, according to the report.

Well Duh…

So, a government agency that provides subsidised public housing at well below market rates to welfare recipients and low income earners can be sued if the well below market rental costs impose financial hardship on the tenant?

The funny thing about welfarfe safety nets and minimum wage requirements is that they are in place to cover basic cost of living, not have people living in the lap of luxury.

There are many high oncome earners here in the ACT that would be spending considerably more that 69% on basic needs. Take high mortgage or rent patments, car re-payments and running costs, basic food, costs of kids etc and I’m sure that some people on over 100k are struggling to make ends meet.

And, spending 69% of your household income on necessities still leaves 31% to piss up against the wall (if you’ll pardon my crudity).

I did not find that article compelling. Frankly I think the ones that are spending 65% of their income on essentials are the lucky ones. There are many many many people in the world who are worse off.

(gratuitous plug for jakez’s two favourite charitable organisations: http://www.msf.org.au, http://www.kiva.org)

It’s good to see Ros Dundas is still in work though.

There isn’t enough detail in the article for me to come to a conclusion on potential lawsuits. I think it would genuinely set a bad precedent though.

Wow, shock, horror – more airy-fairy stuff from Dr Watchirs and the Human Rights dept.

And can someone please tell this woman that doing your hair up with hair clips like a little girl when you aren’t a little girl anymore looks pretty ridiculous!

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