6 December 2011

burqa hat removal powers for police

| johnboy
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Simon Corbell has announced he’s bringing new laws into the Legislative Assembly to allow police to make people take head coverings off.

He’s trying really hard to not make this about muslim women wearing the burqa:

“It is very important to note that this is in no way an attempt to ban head coverings of a particular culture or religious group, but rather is a law to allow legitimate enforcement activities that are essential for road safety.”

The amendments include provisions to enable people who have cultural or religious concerns about uncovering their face in public or in front of a male police officer or authorised road transport official to request that they uncover their face only in front of a female police officer or female official. These provisions also ensure that if requested, reasonable privacy is provided while the person?s face is uncovered.

Mr Corbell said the laws also ensured that if part or most of the person?s face was covered by something that was necessary for the person?s medical treatment, the person is not required to remove that item.

“After consulting with the Islamic community, via the ACT Muslim Consultative Council, information on the proposed laws has been translated into Arabic for wider circulation within the Islamic community. The Human Rights Commission was also consulted on the proposed laws. These groups did not express concerns during this consultation process about the new laws.”

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TheDancingDjinn4:23 pm 06 Dec 11

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

The crayons keep me occupied when things on RA are a little slow.

How do they taste?

Ralph Wiggum: “Miss Hoover my crayon went into my mouth and i , uh ate it”

Mysteryman said :

The crayons keep me occupied when things on RA are a little slow.

How do they taste?

Return of the fashion police.

johnboy said :

Jim Jones said :

But the typical comments here that surrounds the decision is pretty typical.

Typical comments are typical?

Typical poster typically doesn’t read typical post before posting … typically.

Jim Jones said :

But the typical comments here that surrounds the decision is pretty typical.

Typical comments are typical?

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Presumably, yes.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I think this legislation is a good idea.

Colour me unsurprised

Unsurprised, uninteresting, uninformed…

We could use a whole box of crayons on you 😉

I take your comment to mean that you don’t agree that police should have the power to identify drivers during traffic stops and other operations. How do you suggest they do their job, then, if they aren’t allowed to see the face of the person driving the vehicle?

I don’t disagree. But it’s a non-issue. How often do police run into problems identifying drivers? I’d suggest ‘absolutely fecking never’.

Nice to know you own some crayons though.

Not being a police officer myself, I wouldn’t know how often it does or doesn’t happen. I’d suggest that they’re raising the issue for legitimate reasons but I’m not really in a position to know for certain.

The crayons keep me occupied when things on RA are a little slow.

Erg0 said :

Jim Jones said :

aceofspades said :

If there had not been attempts to escape justice and punishment elsewhere in this country by headdress wearers then this would not be an issue. I have no sympathy to anybody culturally offended, they brought it on themselves.

Who did?

I’ve heard (anecdotally) about a single incident – and haven’t even had this verified.

Here you go: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/middle-east/news/article.cfm?l_id=8&objectid=10733890

Ta!

Honestly, the legislation seems fine, and it sounds like everyone’s been consulted and isn’t fussed about it.

But the typical comments here that surrounds the decision is pretty typical.

“46-year-old mother of three Carnita Matthews” who allegedly made a false complaint against a policy officer. I hardly think that constitutes serious “attempts to escape justice and punishment elsewhere in this country by headdress wearers”. This is just someone being a pain in the ass. Being a jerk is completely cross-cultural.

Funky1 said :

Diggety said :

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Yes, they are.

But the hoody is not likely to impede facial recognition anyway, unless it is worn back-to-front.

You obviuously haven’t seen the hoodies that can be zipped right up the front of the face, creating a mask.

No, I haven’t. Thank Allah.

m00nee said :

Interesting to see how few people actually read the media release. To Quote:
“Mr Corbell said that the new laws would cover such head coverings motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, large sunglasses and *hooded jackets*.”
Specific mention is made regarding woman wearing religious headwear, and the provisions in the legislations for their specific needs.
I personally am in full support of this legislation. If you have nothing to hid, then uncover. it’s as simple as that.
It is such a pity that the likes of Carnita Matthews, a career criminal who hides behind a naqib when it suits her needs, have caused such distrust in the general community towards muslim woman.

That’s partly becuase of teh way the original post is presented. With the obvious title and only quoting part of the press release relating to the ‘cultural issues’.

Diggety said :

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Yes, they are.

But the hoody is not likely to impede facial recognition anyway, unless it is worn back-to-front.

You obviuously haven’t seen the hoodies that can be zipped right up the front of the face, creating a mask.

54-11 said :

So that means that servos that insist that motorcyclists take off their helmets must call the cops, who are the only ones with the authority to enforce removal?.

a servo is private property, they can do what they like. If you don’t want to remove your helmet don’t enter the servo in the first place.

TheDancingDjinn said :

I’d like someone to point me in the direction of a woman driving here in Canberra while wearing a burqa. – i can honestly say i have not seen a woman wearing that perticular headdress here. I have seen Hijabs (the regular see your face kind), and and older woman wearing a niqjjab (the ones that looks like a ninja) but not a burqa. Has anyone else seen one? and if so was she the age to drive and not like 80 or something?

I have, but I couldnt tell you if she was 80 or something coz all I could see was the shape of a person inside the cloth.
Great law!! Glad to see Hoodies also included, I get really annoyed when I see some kids walking up to a bar in a club with the hood on. Same when I see them driving along with hood on and apparently no front seats

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Yes, they are.

But the hoody is not likely to impede facial recognition anyway, unless it is worn back-to-front.

m00nee said :

It is such a pity that the likes of Carnita Matthews, a career criminal who hides behind a naqib when it suits her needs, have caused such distrust in the general community towards muslim woman.

It is unfortunate, but it also exposed a loophole that needed to be closed. It sounds like nobody has any major objections to the proposed solution, so hopefully this will be the last we’ll hear of it.

Interesting to see how few people actually read the media release. To Quote:
“Mr Corbell said that the new laws would cover such head coverings motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, large sunglasses and *hooded jackets*.”
Specific mention is made regarding woman wearing religious headwear, and the provisions in the legislations for their specific needs.
I personally am in full support of this legislation. If you have nothing to hid, then uncover. it’s as simple as that.
It is such a pity that the likes of Carnita Matthews, a career criminal who hides behind a naqib when it suits her needs, have caused such distrust in the general community towards muslim woman.

Jim Jones said :

aceofspades said :

If there had not been attempts to escape justice and punishment elsewhere in this country by headdress wearers then this would not be an issue. I have no sympathy to anybody culturally offended, they brought it on themselves.

Who did?

I’ve heard (anecdotally) about a single incident – and haven’t even had this verified.

Here you go: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/middle-east/news/article.cfm?l_id=8&objectid=10733890

aceofspades said :

If there had not been attempts to escape justice and punishment elsewhere in this country by headdress wearers then this would not be an issue. I have no sympathy to anybody culturally offended, they brought it on themselves.

Who did?

I’ve heard (anecdotally) about a single incident – and haven’t even had this verified.

If there had not been attempts to escape justice and punishment elsewhere in this country by headdress wearers then this would not be an issue. I have no sympathy to anybody culturally offended, they brought it on themselves.

Mysteryman said :

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Presumably, yes.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I think this legislation is a good idea.

Colour me unsurprised

Unsurprised, uninteresting, uninformed…

We could use a whole box of crayons on you 😉

I take your comment to mean that you don’t agree that police should have the power to identify drivers during traffic stops and other operations. How do you suggest they do their job, then, if they aren’t allowed to see the face of the person driving the vehicle?

I don’t disagree. But it’s a non-issue. How often do police run into problems identifying drivers? I’d suggest ‘absolutely fecking never’.

Nice to know you own some crayons though.

Picking on devout women. Shame on you.

If any of you had any balls you would be screaming down the pollies to do something about hoodys rather than wasting your time on a “isolated incidents and “what if” that the burqa presents. If you say “no hoodies” why aren’t you doing something about it? Why hasn’t there been legislation drawn up to deal with them? Where’s your conviction for a better society?

fgzk said :

The logic defies me. Dozens of robberies each day are committed with hoodys used to obscure the face. Yet, it is the burqa that is hysterically feared.

I don’t think hoodies are excluded from this legislation. It’s not targeting the Burqa, it’s just identifying the cultural sensitivities associated with them. They’re going to make sure that it’s a female officer that goes through the process of identifying a woman in a Burqa.

Since there’s no cultural sensitivity associated with removing hoodies, they don’t get mentioned.

fgzk said :

The logic defies me. Dozens of robberies each day are committed with hoodys used to obscure the face. Yet, it is the burqa that is hysterically feared.

I’m pretty sure this legislation will apply to hoodies too.
Maybe the question you should be asking is why the government has to pussy foot around the Muslim community on this issue?
Apparently they all think it’s a good idea.

fgzk said :

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Presumably, yes.

Jim Jones said :

Mysteryman said :

I think this legislation is a good idea.

Colour me unsurprised

Unsurprised, uninteresting, uninformed…

We could use a whole box of crayons on you 😉

I take your comment to mean that you don’t agree that police should have the power to identify drivers during traffic stops and other operations. How do you suggest they do their job, then, if they aren’t allowed to see the face of the person driving the vehicle?

A quick search of the RA photo archive should prove the point. Whats the ratio of criminal head gear?

The logic defies me. Dozens of robberies each day are committed with hoodys used to obscure the face. Yet, it is the burqa that is hysterically feared.

Mysteryman said :

I think this legislation is a good idea.

Colour me unsurprised

TheDancingDjinn said :

I’d like someone to point me in the direction of a woman driving here in Canberra while wearing a burqa. – i can honestly say i have not seen a woman wearing that perticular headdress here. I have seen Hijabs (the regular see your face kind), and and older woman wearing a niqjjab (the ones that looks like a ninja) but not a burqa. Has anyone else seen one? and if so was she the age to drive and not like 80 or something?

Then there shouldn’t be anyone inconvenienced, should there?

I think its obvious the “hoody” that poses the greater threat to our society. Are Hoodies to be uncovered.

Thoroughly Smashed11:29 am 06 Dec 11

TheDancingDjinn said :

I’d like someone to point me in the direction of a woman driving here in Canberra while wearing a burqa. – i can honestly say i have not seen a woman wearing that perticular headdress here. I have seen Hijabs (the regular see your face kind), and and older woman wearing a niqjjab (the ones that looks like a ninja) but not a burqa. Has anyone else seen one? and if so was she the age to drive and not like 80 or something?

I suspect there’s a correlation between wearing a burqa or other islamic full face cover and not driving.

I think this legislation is a good idea.

It is not necessarily about the removal being needed to identify an offender. It is simply about knowing who the person is.

If the cops can’t look at your face, I could be one of those “licence suspended until two thousand and dickety three” drivers of a white commodore – but I show the cops the licence of someone else, and they can’t tell who it is.

Holden Caulfield10:31 am 06 Dec 11

So long as the coppers are given the appropriate training and understand the cultural aspects involved I don’t have a huge drama with this.

The potential for such laws to be abused by the Police is quite high, I would imagine. So hopefully that is managed competently and respectfully.

dvaey said :

Im wondering exactly what giving police the power to remove a burqa, has to do with road safety?

Road safety generically can mean anything that occurs on the roads i.e. breath tests, speeding, being pulled over for dangerous driving.

The removal of the burqa would assist in the identification of the offender. I believe there has been a few occasions were people sporting the burqa have been fined then later backflipped and denied ever being in the vehicle…

TheDancingDjinn10:20 am 06 Dec 11

I’d like someone to point me in the direction of a woman driving here in Canberra while wearing a burqa. – i can honestly say i have not seen a woman wearing that perticular headdress here. I have seen Hijabs (the regular see your face kind), and and older woman wearing a niqjjab (the ones that looks like a ninja) but not a burqa. Has anyone else seen one? and if so was she the age to drive and not like 80 or something?

The whole thing arose from a case in Melbourne or Sydney (forget which) where a Muslim woman was asked (or forced, depending on whose version you believe) by a police officer to remove her head covering so that she could be identified during a traffic stop. From memory, if you don’t remove your head covering then you can’t be identified, and if you can’t be identified then you can’t be charged with a traffic offence.

Im wondering exactly what giving police the power to remove a burqa, has to do with road safety?

So that means that servos that insist that motorcyclists take off their helmets must call the cops, who are the only ones with the authority to enforce removal?

I always take off my helmet but I know others who would rather not, specially those with fliptops.

Cool: the strike-out in the title of this article is causing WordPress to have a hernia.

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