27 June 2010

Young too lazy? Or employers too crap?

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times is running an epic whinge by Domino’s Belconnen Manager David Hutchinson:

Manager David Hutchinson said the store needed at least two extra staff members a month just to keep up with demand.

”Maybe four or five years ago there were a lot of kids who seemed to want a job, but there’s not as many as there used to be,” Mr Hutchinson.

”Kids are a bit lazier these days. They will just go and watch TV or go and play the Xbox instead going to work.

”You do get a lot of kids, too, who get a fair bit of coin off the parents.”

McDonalds are also saying “it has always struggled to fill jobs at its 15 Canberra restaurants.”

Now thats odd. Some of us distinctly remember queues around the corner for maccas jobs when youth unemployment in the ACT was over 50% (thank you Paul Keating).

Now here’s a thought. Rather than employers thinking the youth of Canberra are an indentured labour force, required to slave away in their kitchens to deliver up the funds to open up another franchise, maybe they need to offer pay and conditions that make the positions attractive?

Crazy talk I know.

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Maybe Hutch wouldnt be so short staffed if he wasnt so quick to fire his best workers over rumours from other lazy jealous workers. Sorry hutch but wake up to yourself, you made your bed.
It seems everyone wants kids to work for nothing and be perfect at their jobs. All these franchise owners like hutch or the managers of subway etc think they can run a business, employ 15 yr olds to work 24/7 for peanuts and have a perfect business and booming profits. sorry but they all live in a dreamland.

georgesgenitals7:01 pm 07 Jul 10

All kids should work part time in a basic job for at least a couple of years, to learn about work ethic and acceptable behaviour. It would also make some of them a bit more grateful for more skilled jobs when they get them (some of the graduates where I work could sure use an attitude adjustment).

robyncatwoman said :

Maybe a lot of people don’t know this yet; it is compulsory in the ACT to stay in education or training (ie school or apprenticeship) until the age of 17. You therefore won’t be finding any full-time employees below that age; it would be illegal unless they somehow managed full-time hours working on top of school hours.

Unless they are from interstate? Or doing Grade 12 at TAFE after hours?

robyncatwoman3:38 pm 07 Jul 10

Die Lefty Scum said :

Gen Y’ers are lazy and insolent, I should know – I have 2 of them living under my roof. My youngest is 16 and has no interest in working despite not attending college anymore. I guess its hard to find the time to put in job applications in between games of Grand Theft Auto. My eldest is 18 and was fired from his job at Red Rooster a few months ago for skimming. If I had’ve known all those years ago that they’d turn out to be such bums I’d have given them the baby Adam treatment.

Your daughter should be at school or other training until she is 17; didn’t you know that? You could be the one in trouble for this absence.

If your children are this lazy, insolent and one is a thief to boot, you can and should blame yourself. Parents develop their children’s attitudes, one way or another, passively or actively.

I’m technically a member of Gen Y, and while I’m not currently employed (I am at Uni though) I wouldn’t call myself lazy. The problem is, as many have pointed out, that the wages and conditions are just terrible. I remember my first job at Coles 8 years ago when I was 17, and looking now for casual jobs I cringe at what is expected. The wages barely more than they were back then (I used to be on $17/hour, now I’m lucky to be offered $19). Apart from that, we are expected to work more hours just so we continue to get shifts, and it is nearly impossible to find anything except full time or casual work (what ever happened to part timers getting 15 hours?). Not only that, but centrelink will take 50c for every dollar you earn away from its payments, meaning that you’re essentially working for half price, and lets face it, why would I want to work MORE to get paid LESS?

robyncatwoman2:56 pm 07 Jul 10

Maybe a lot of people don’t know this yet; it is compulsory in the ACT to stay in education or training (ie school or apprenticeship) until the age of 17. You therefore won’t be finding any full-time employees below that age; it would be illegal unless they somehow managed full-time hours working on top of school hours.

It is true that many ACT teenagers are receiving so much pocket money and anything else they want (as well as need) from their parents that they can’t be bothered working. When they do have jobs, their parents condone their calling in sick when they can’t be bothered working. This attitude overflows to work attitude at school, with students and parents alike expecting good grades even if students don’t ever hand in work or turn up for class.

My daughters expected to pay their way and did, working part-time in retail or other low-paying jobs, studying full or part-time and paying tertiary fees, borrowing and paying off car loans. They are as disgusted as I am at parents’ paying their adult children’s car registration or or paying them “pocket money” even after they are in “proper” full-time employment and not living with their parents.

Having said all that, my daughters NEVER worked in fast food places; the thought was repulsive to them and in Canberra there is always another job somewhere.

Other reasons students don’t stay on in fast food places or supermarkets are:
these employers often try to force students to work during school time or after midnight;
job locations are difficult to get to without parental help and the petrol cost and inconvenience can outweigh the benefits of having a job.

If money’s the only thing that can inspire a kid to work, then no kid is going to want to work in entry level fastfood/hospitality/retail jobs. That’s a fair amount of hours they’d have to do before they could even come close to affording a xbox360 or an iphone. Much easier to wait for the parents to buy it for them.

Casual jobs used to have an element of status when I was growing up. Even HAVING a job (be it McDonalds or wherever) was the thing to do, and if you were lucky enough to land Stock Jeans (ooh memories) or Footlocker you hit the jackpot. Was also because the crew you’d work with were all in the same boat so you’d make friends of your own age from nearby schools and it’d all just be fun fun fun..

These days if you were to work at Hungry Jacks or McDonalds you’d more likely end up working with middle aged ethnic people; while the “youth of today” could really benefit from cultural exchanges with people old enough to be their parents, it’s probably not something 16yo kids see as a cool way to spend their Saturdays.

colourful sydney racing identity11:04 am 02 Jul 10

cleo said :

Die Lefty Scum

I say give them an choice, go back to school or get a job, if not leave home

Here, here! Is there anything better for building society than desperate, desolate children?

cleo said :

Die Lefty Scum

I say give them an choice, go back to school or get a job, if not leave home

Yeah, you should turf your children onto the street without any means of support, that’s the right thing to do.

Die Lefty Scum I say give them an choice, go back to school or get a job, if not leave home

vg said :

Icepoet said :

VG

You’re right – lower level full time jobs do tend to lead to higher level ones and I am currently working one low level (supermarket) job and one mid level (not aps but equivilent APS 5) job for a large research centre. I work more than 40 hours per week in these two jobs to pay for my university studies as I do not want to be receiving government money to study and have still managed to maintain my HD average. I work damn hard. The APS is certainly not the be all and end all and as I said I haven’t fully investigated other options yet – I am still testing the waters to see what’s around and to see what I might be suited to for when I finish studies at the end of the year. I also have nearly 10 years of work experience in other low/mid level jobs. I am not approaching my job search with the attitude of ‘only the perfect job will do’.

To be honest I don’t even know what the perfect job is. Which is partly the reason why I’m intersted in a graduate program so I can gain some experience in a variety of roles and hopefully find something that I’m both good at and enjoy.

I’ve no doubt there will be a job for me at the end of my studies – whatever it may be, but I hark back to Mark’s original comment to which I was replying – where he stated that it’s hard for a university graduate to get a position within the APS straight out of university. I wanted to share my experience to let others know that it really is hard. Are there other jobs out there as or even more competitive? Sure there are. But I posted to support Mark’s comment about the difficulty.

@Rebcart – thanks for your advice, that sounds like a good plan if I don’t make it through this round of offers.

@Mark – Best of luck with your job search too. I hope you find something soon. Ps. (Don’t you just hate those silly aptitude tests?)

Good to see you have a sound work ethic anyway, but don’t think working 40hrs a week and studying makes you special these days. I got my Masters whilst working 40-50 hrs a week and doing on call and overtime.

Good luck with your endeavours though

Nope – not special. Just determined to make a better life for myself – and that may well be outside of the public service. Thanks though for your good wishes. 🙂

Glad to hear you’ve got something on the go Mark. Hope it pans out into something more permanent for you.

@Icepoet – the aptitude tests lol…everyone at the assessment centre bitched about those.

It’s good to share how hard it is, because no one else seems to be talking about it these days, and my older friends are like, “the public service is easy to get into”, of course they remember the days when any seat-filler would be snatched up in the pre-GFC climate. I think that’s the issue as a lot of people aren’t retiring, and Departments don’t have the budget for additional fulltime staff.

Yeah, I’ve got 2 short term APS contracts (both 4s) coming up soon – so I’m just going to be strategic in both scenarios and try to get them extended. The last one, my supervisor was so nice but said they don’t have the budget now.

colourful sydney racing identity1:34 pm 30 Jun 10

divion123 said :

Offer better pay & conditions?

Unlikely! The Labour government through that amazing workers’ friend > the Fair Pay Commission refused to grant a pay increase to 41,000 casual workers at McDonalds last Thursday!
quote]

Completely factually incorrect.

I’d be worried if teenagers weren’t lazy and insolent. They were in my day. The ones that weren’t were boring little tits.

thelozenger said :

I am so sick and tired of people complaining that Gen Y are lazy.

The problem with some of these retail/hospitality places is that they expect High School/Uni students to treat their casual job like nothing else matters. When I was in Year 11 I was working at Woolworths doing 4 supervisor shifts a week (8-10 hours each) and then they would get angry with me when they called up asking me to do another shift and I said no. School was my priority because it would help me with the rest of my life whereas Woolies was just a temporary job until I finished school. They expect teenagers to be available 24/7 and drop everything to work another shift.

I work in clubs now, and the pay is much better (thanks to poker machines) and the management is much for understanding with things like exams, other commitments ect, but it’s still hard sometimes because of the hours. I try to get Office type jobs but employers seem to want semi-retired or return to work mums for those jobs, not students.

Also, someone said that the reason Gen Y are lazy is that it’s because they just stay at home for longer, not moving out ect.

For a student, it is really difficult to move out of home. One, landlords don’t want to rent out to share houses- the only way students can afford to move out- and with the rental shortage, it is almost impossible to get a place. Who are you going to rent out to? Three students or a young professional couple with jobs in the public service? Two- with the pitiful amount of Youth Allowance & work you can do, its hard money wise to move out (the only students I know living out of home all have help from their parents.)

I work very hard, both at uni and when at work, as do most people I know. I hate the stereotype that Gen Y have. Either way, it’s a lot harder these days for us. I’m 20 years old and know that I will probably never be able to buy a house, because it’s just too expensive and that the profession I want to go into rarely pays well (unless you get lucky.) You baby boomers and Gen Xs can’t say that can you? It was just a given that after working for a while, you buy a house, pay it off, ect.

Mate, I’m certainly only referring to when my staff were working. If casual staff knocked back shifts, that was certainly their prerogative and I never had a problem with it. What they do with their own time is entirely their business, and if they choose to make work a lower priority, good for them. But when they are working I expect them to treat my business like it’s the only priority – because for the time I’m paying them, it is.

Every business has downtime and I encouraged staff to take full advantage of that – but the lazy and insolent attributes I described are unacceptable whether they rate my business and their wage as a priority in their life or not.

Icepoet said :

VG

You’re right – lower level full time jobs do tend to lead to higher level ones and I am currently working one low level (supermarket) job and one mid level (not aps but equivilent APS 5) job for a large research centre. I work more than 40 hours per week in these two jobs to pay for my university studies as I do not want to be receiving government money to study and have still managed to maintain my HD average. I work damn hard. The APS is certainly not the be all and end all and as I said I haven’t fully investigated other options yet – I am still testing the waters to see what’s around and to see what I might be suited to for when I finish studies at the end of the year. I also have nearly 10 years of work experience in other low/mid level jobs. I am not approaching my job search with the attitude of ‘only the perfect job will do’.

To be honest I don’t even know what the perfect job is. Which is partly the reason why I’m intersted in a graduate program so I can gain some experience in a variety of roles and hopefully find something that I’m both good at and enjoy.

I’ve no doubt there will be a job for me at the end of my studies – whatever it may be, but I hark back to Mark’s original comment to which I was replying – where he stated that it’s hard for a university graduate to get a position within the APS straight out of university. I wanted to share my experience to let others know that it really is hard. Are there other jobs out there as or even more competitive? Sure there are. But I posted to support Mark’s comment about the difficulty.

@Rebcart – thanks for your advice, that sounds like a good plan if I don’t make it through this round of offers.

@Mark – Best of luck with your job search too. I hope you find something soon. Ps. (Don’t you just hate those silly aptitude tests?)

Good to see you have a sound work ethic anyway, but don’t think working 40hrs a week and studying makes you special these days. I got my Masters whilst working 40-50 hrs a week and doing on call and overtime.

Good luck with your endeavours though

VG

You’re right – lower level full time jobs do tend to lead to higher level ones and I am currently working one low level (supermarket) job and one mid level (not aps but equivilent APS 5) job for a large research centre. I work more than 40 hours per week in these two jobs to pay for my university studies as I do not want to be receiving government money to study and have still managed to maintain my HD average. I work damn hard. The APS is certainly not the be all and end all and as I said I haven’t fully investigated other options yet – I am still testing the waters to see what’s around and to see what I might be suited to for when I finish studies at the end of the year. I also have nearly 10 years of work experience in other low/mid level jobs. I am not approaching my job search with the attitude of ‘only the perfect job will do’.

To be honest I don’t even know what the perfect job is. Which is partly the reason why I’m intersted in a graduate program so I can gain some experience in a variety of roles and hopefully find something that I’m both good at and enjoy.

I’ve no doubt there will be a job for me at the end of my studies – whatever it may be, but I hark back to Mark’s original comment to which I was replying – where he stated that it’s hard for a university graduate to get a position within the APS straight out of university. I wanted to share my experience to let others know that it really is hard. Are there other jobs out there as or even more competitive? Sure there are. But I posted to support Mark’s comment about the difficulty.

@Rebcart – thanks for your advice, that sounds like a good plan if I don’t make it through this round of offers.

@Mark – Best of luck with your job search too. I hope you find something soon. Ps. (Don’t you just hate those silly aptitude tests?)

Deadmandrinking6:20 am 30 Jun 10

Agree with VG (Again! What is happening to me?). There’s heaps of jobs out there in Canberra – not just a Dominos. Working these sort of jobs will give you some kind of experience and can give you extra sets of skills to fall back on.

Thelozenger – I know exactly where you’re coming from. The guilt trips about not staying back caused me to cave in and fall to sleep in class in the morning. The good thing is, though, is that it’s near impossible to get fired. I called in ‘sick’ almost every week and kept my job.

@ Icepoet: I know! And the Graduate Assessment days, if you’re lucky to even be invited, are just a series of hurdles and hoops that only those with job experience can handle. Then there’s the charming APS ‘merit’ process, translation: graduates with employment experience temping in our Department will get through.

You’ve got a bloody HD average, I’ve only got Credit!…It’s like their zealously seeking perfection.

It’s not about grades it’s about connections.

Icepoet said :

I am currently completing my honours year of my 2nd degree at university and have applied for numerous graduate positions within APS departments for 2011.

I have a high distinction GPA, am on track for first class honours and as a mature aged student have 10 years of work experience behind me.

Of the eight departments that I applied for a graduate position with for next year, I received seven rejections. In some cases, such as the Department of Broadband and Communications I was competing against 600 applicants for just 12 positions. The Department of Human services had over 1200 applications for less than 100 positions.

I am still in the process of being assessed for one final department, but have accepted that if I do not make it through the selection process there I will probably be looking for a temp job early next year simply to get my foot in the door.

There’s plenty of full time work you can engage in while you seek your best choice of employment. The best position from which to seek a full time job is being in one currently. Sure you may not be in the job you see yourself in for the rest of your life, but prior to my current employ I was a furniture removalist, garbage man, nightclub bouncer and clerical assistant in the APS. Beggars can’t be choosers

Icepoet,

Last year I applied for graduate positions in the hope that I would have something this year, and got summarily rejected. (Granted, I was just finishing off my 3-year bachelor degree, and only applied to a few places due to its narrowness, but…)

Upon moving to Canberra half a year ago, I called up the sub-department (division… it’s complicated) where I thought I wanted to work and said “Would you take me on as an intern?” A month later I was on a full time non-ongoing contract, which has already been extended, and I’m using my degree’s skills more than I probably would have with a graduate position initially. So just from that experience, getting a foot-in-the-door temp job seems quite easy with a bit of initiative! Especially if you pick a division that, without your knowing, is chronically understaffed…

Icepoet said :

I am currently completing my honours year of my 2nd degree at university and have applied for numerous graduate positions within APS departments for 2011.

I have a high distinction GPA, am on track for first class honours and as a mature aged student have 10 years of work experience behind me.

Of the eight departments that I applied for a graduate position with for next year, I received seven rejections. In some cases, such as the Department of Broadband and Communications I was competing against 600 applicants for just 12 positions. The Department of Human services had over 1200 applications for less than 100 positions.

I am still in the process of being assessed for one final department, but have accepted that if I do not make it through the selection process there I will probably be looking for a temp job early next year simply to get my foot in the door.

Maybe you should transfer to London, live in a surreal, dingy student share house with 4 totally mismatched, off the wall students with a penchant for Cliff Richard. It’ll be completely original I promise you.

How much to comedy writers make?….

georgesgenitals said :

Icepoet said :

I am currently completing my honours year of my 2nd degree at university and have applied for numerous graduate positions within APS departments for 2011.

I have a high distinction GPA, am on track for first class honours and as a mature aged student have 10 years of work experience behind me.

Of the eight departments that I applied for a graduate position with for next year, I received seven rejections. In some cases, such as the Department of Broadband and Communications I was competing against 600 applicants for just 12 positions. The Department of Human services had over 1200 applications for less than 100 positions.

I am still in the process of being assessed for one final department, but have accepted that if I do not make it through the selection process there I will probably be looking for a temp job early next year simply to get my foot in the door.

Perhaps you need to cast the net a bit wider. Also, don’t assume good uni grades mean anything in the real world.

You’re right George. At the moment I’m just testing the waters to see what’s around as I’m still focusing on finishing my thesis. I just wanted to let others know how incredibly competitive it is for a grad position these days. (Acknowledging that not having applied for any grad programs before, I don’t know what previous years have been like).

georgesgenitals6:37 pm 29 Jun 10

Icepoet said :

I am currently completing my honours year of my 2nd degree at university and have applied for numerous graduate positions within APS departments for 2011.

I have a high distinction GPA, am on track for first class honours and as a mature aged student have 10 years of work experience behind me.

Of the eight departments that I applied for a graduate position with for next year, I received seven rejections. In some cases, such as the Department of Broadband and Communications I was competing against 600 applicants for just 12 positions. The Department of Human services had over 1200 applications for less than 100 positions.

I am still in the process of being assessed for one final department, but have accepted that if I do not make it through the selection process there I will probably be looking for a temp job early next year simply to get my foot in the door.

Perhaps you need to cast the net a bit wider. Also, don’t assume good uni grades mean anything in the real world.

I am currently completing my honours year of my 2nd degree at university and have applied for numerous graduate positions within APS departments for 2011.

I have a high distinction GPA, am on track for first class honours and as a mature aged student have 10 years of work experience behind me.

Of the eight departments that I applied for a graduate position with for next year, I received seven rejections. In some cases, such as the Department of Broadband and Communications I was competing against 600 applicants for just 12 positions. The Department of Human services had over 1200 applications for less than 100 positions.

I am still in the process of being assessed for one final department, but have accepted that if I do not make it through the selection process there I will probably be looking for a temp job early next year simply to get my foot in the door.

Hmm not sure I agree, there’s a fair bit of pressure on the current generation; to make it into uni, then battle out the job market (try entering the APS now as a university postgraduate, go on give it a go, you’d be lucky to get a data entry job). However, I think there are a lot of young ‘uns out there thumbing their nose up at perfectly good apprenticeships and even jobs as awful as these – which can provide skills that *could* fill selection criteria tick boxes (provided you are very creative in your writing talents). So, I don’t think that we can generalise and say that young people are lazy or these retail employers are crap (though I am veering towards the latter as I write this)…

fgzk said :

Genie. From comments above you should be living it large on the dole. Why get a job when the Government gives you money for nothing?

Centrelink wont pay me… apparently my last paycheck of less than $500 is enough to last me for 4 weeks and I can reapply late July.

Last time I was unemployed due to a back injury it took me 4 months to get approve because I “own” a $25k car, and I quote “your assets are too high, you should consider selling your car then reapplying in a month or 2” Apparently my answer of if I sold my car I still had a loan to pay off and I would then still have no money and now no car wasn’t good enough.

I’m still convinced if I went out and got knocked up they’d be throwing cash at me, instead of me being temporarily unemployed and in need of a hand and getting thrown away.

I heard something today which made me think. I am old enough (ouch, hate to admit it!) that I lived through the last recession – and iit left its mark pretty deeply.

So, there are times when I agree that “the youth of today” have it easy. But it’s all relative – they can’t afford to move out of home, whereas I could back then.

Anyhow, what I heard was this: How can we expect good service from our young people when nobody gives it to them? How often are teenagers told to go away by shopkeepers etc because they are “making the place look untidy”, etc?

And when was the last time many adult retailers treated a teenager as a worthwhile customer who deserved respect?

Clown Killer7:59 pm 28 Jun 10

A few more boatloads could really have Mr.Hutchinson’s kitchen buzzing again.

It’s a model that works for countries that share a border with a third world economy. The US for instance has Mexico and Canada to draw on.

Gen Y lazy? Maybe some are but wasn’t it the same with Gen X, Baby Boomers etc?

My 15 yo son has worked for a Canberra small business for the past 2 1/2 years.

My son earns above award wages and has a boss that asks him how much homework he has, and how far advanced he is in his assignments(!), before allocating extra shifts to him (my son is his only assistant). During the slow times (ie winter) he still manages to give him a couple of shifts per week because “Young kids need a bit of pocket money”.

I has this discussion with a friend whose two daughters work at a local restaurant chain. She got their finish time wrong and sat in the carpark waiting for half an hour during the ‘cleaning’ time. She saw the Manager shout pizzas for all the staff as they were cleaning the restaurant.

Why would our kids want to work for some multinational, (for less than parental pocket money), who have no stake in this community except to peddle crap food?

Hells_Bells747:10 pm 28 Jun 10

My daughter born in 1994 has worked since she was 12. First at a baby animal petting zoo for a couple of years on weekends and some holidays and for the last couple of years or more at Dominos Belconnen. She is not lazy (better not be) and comes home absolutely buggered and filthy, God love her. That’s just from the one shift a week she now does (used to do more but her dad thought it messed with her school work, fair enough) and her pay was $7 something an hour til they sort of recently signed a W.A and now gets $10 an hour.

I’m all for her working, but I must say, my next daughter is almost 14 and there is no way she could work really anywhere. She just doesn’t have that level of maturity that her elder sister did. I worked very early as did some of my friends back in the day, but heaps didn’t. Nothing wrong with not working at a shit kicker job if you don’t desire to.

Now, could I please have a thread for a epic rant against Dominos for the absolute crap service I’ve endured this year.

Roadrage77 said :

So am I really losing it or are their “large” pizzas half the size they used to be?

While I have no proof, I believe you are correct. Surely there should be a government website that monitors things like this?

Beserk Keyboard Warrior3:36 pm 28 Jun 10

A better illustration as to why we need to open the floodgates to immigrants has never been seen. A few more boatloads could really have Mr.Hutchinson’s kitchen buzzing again.

A few weeks ago, having acquired a severe case of the munchies (someone spiked my cigarette) I broke a 5 year boycott and ordered a couple of pizzas from Dominoes Erindale. When I opened the boxes to give my nose a preview of the sweet garbage I was about to ingest I was shocked to see the size of the pizza had diminished. Merely out of interest I asked the manager who was serving me whether they’d reduced the size of their pizzas, (like Kingsleys did with their breast fillet burger, Maccas with their [not so] Big Mac, Mars Bar etc etc). Well from his reaction you’d thought I called his late grandmother a two-bit prostitute. He implied I was cuckoo and totally belittled me.

So am I really losing it or are their “large” pizzas half the size they used to be?

That’s a sweet bit of speculation from Hutcho. Maybe he should take some sphincter relaxents and pay a few bucks more.

Die Lefty Scum3:14 pm 28 Jun 10

Gen Y’ers are lazy and insolent, I should know – I have 2 of them living under my roof. My youngest is 16 and has no interest in working despite not attending college anymore. I guess its hard to find the time to put in job applications in between games of Grand Theft Auto. My eldest is 18 and was fired from his job at Red Rooster a few months ago for skimming. If I had’ve known all those years ago that they’d turn out to be such bums I’d have given them the baby Adam treatment.

I really don’t see the sense in complaining about Gen Y being lazy – if they are then it’s because we, as a society, have made them that way.

I am so sick and tired of people complaining that Gen Y are lazy.

The problem with some of these retail/hospitality places is that they expect High School/Uni students to treat their casual job like nothing else matters. When I was in Year 11 I was working at Woolworths doing 4 supervisor shifts a week (8-10 hours each) and then they would get angry with me when they called up asking me to do another shift and I said no. School was my priority because it would help me with the rest of my life whereas Woolies was just a temporary job until I finished school. They expect teenagers to be available 24/7 and drop everything to work another shift.

I work in clubs now, and the pay is much better (thanks to poker machines) and the management is much for understanding with things like exams, other commitments ect, but it’s still hard sometimes because of the hours. I try to get Office type jobs but employers seem to want semi-retired or return to work mums for those jobs, not students.

Also, someone said that the reason Gen Y are lazy is that it’s because they just stay at home for longer, not moving out ect.

For a student, it is really difficult to move out of home. One, landlords don’t want to rent out to share houses- the only way students can afford to move out- and with the rental shortage, it is almost impossible to get a place. Who are you going to rent out to? Three students or a young professional couple with jobs in the public service? Two- with the pitiful amount of Youth Allowance & work you can do, its hard money wise to move out (the only students I know living out of home all have help from their parents.)

I work very hard, both at uni and when at work, as do most people I know. I hate the stereotype that Gen Y have. Either way, it’s a lot harder these days for us. I’m 20 years old and know that I will probably never be able to buy a house, because it’s just too expensive and that the profession I want to go into rarely pays well (unless you get lucky.) You baby boomers and Gen Xs can’t say that can you? It was just a given that after working for a while, you buy a house, pay it off, ect.

Genie. From comments above you should be living it large on the dole. Why get a job when the Government gives you money for nothing?

ddj said :

Just to make a point known that all teens arn’t lazy, im 15 years old. work 40 Hours a WEEK whilst studying year 11.

Congratulations.. Although I remember being 16 when I started yr 11.

Anyways ! I’m with gospeedygo.. I’m out there looking for work ! Not really keen to go back to working at min wage, but will take what I can get. Which at the moment is nothing ! I’m too old for fast food and retail and dont have enough experience elsewhere. Sooooo anyone wanna tell me how I can get a job !?

I would like to suggest that many of the businesses referred to are victims of their own success.

As rampant consumerism has been pushed by these corporations, advertising has convinced us all that we need the latest flatscreen, and that a couple of grand to replace a working unit is good value. We are also being pushed the idea that a “meal” at Macca, or a couple of pizzas at Domino’s is the kind of discretionary spending that we should not even think about. Spend spend spend spend….

So, having absorbed these lessons, the youth of today then get asked to give up several good xbox playing hours to earn barely enough to buy one of the burgers they are selling? I don’t think so.

Just to make a point known that all teens arn’t lazy, im 15 years old. work 40 Hours a WEEK whilst studying year 11.

Ryoma said :

+10 Johnboy.

Professor Richard Florida (he of the “Creative Class” theory) says that we all need to find a way to make service industry jobs more creative and inherently interesting, or we will all find that it impacts upon us. See http://www.creativeclass.com

This is an interesting article and certainly a good way to engage today’s youth. I remember back in the day when I worked in retail, the particular company we worked for allowed us to make suggestions or improvements to processes.
I understand that this cannot be done in every work place but when you empower employees you engage employees and this generally leads to job satisfaction.

forgoodnessake11:01 am 28 Jun 10

AND…apparently the highest rate of unemployement is youth between the ages of 15-19. This would have to be the prime target for hospitality food industry jobs. But as all the focus is being placed on skilled jobs, the unskilled labour shortage is growing. When you can get training and be placed in a decent job, why would you go work for pizza hut??? the govt needs to give some incentive for young people to take the jobs no one seems to want.

From the Fin review today: Training essential to fix shortages –
A priority in population policy must be to ensure unemployed young people get the training they need to help fill the national skills shortage, Families Minister Jenny Macklin has said. She said the needs of the economy needed to be considered in future population
growth plans and, in the past, that had included encouraging skilled migration in areas where there were skilled shortages. We have areas of serious unemployment, particularly youth unemployment, and I know one of the new Prime Minister’s areas of grave concern is to see another generation of young people unemployed,” she told the Ten Network yesterday.

But aren’t the lazy tv watching, xbox playing, cashed up teenagers their main market?

Unless you can find a job locally, reliance on public transport is a big factor, especially after hours, both for reliability and safety. 1 bus per hour can mean a lot of hanging around interchanges.

Not to mention that fast food outlets congratulate you on turning 18 by cutting your hours…

forgoodnessake10:07 am 28 Jun 10

Well, young people are statistically living in the family home longer so it stands to reason that they will not be as concerned with an income, so why would they bother working a sh*tty embarrassing job like that? Also, the stereotype that Gen Y-Z etc want it all now is as true as it was in my time (not that Im that old…)

I worked in retail for years before getting a ‘respectable’ office job. I personally couldn’t go the food industry though. There is a stigma attached to it. Just saying…
Its not like you can make a career out of it can you? I guess thats why places like ALDI advertise themselves as providing a career path rather than a job. And offer good incentives to work there.

But as someone else said, back in the day, there were massive queues to get jobs at maccas. Every one wanted one. If you had maccas on your resume it was a really big deal.

Has anyone else noticed that this David Hutchinson IS a member of Gen Y himself?

I don’t think anyone (other than RiotAct commenters) are blaming this spurious generational divide; it’s a cultural shift. In Old Australia, young people were readily available and that made them cheap. In New Australia, fewer young people see the value in working a dead-end job for a pittance in an environment where tertiary education is more accessible. The issue is that in a more affluent society, young people have more choice, so employers have to compete for their labour, and the unskilled labour supply will be of a lower quality than in a less affluent society. So if fast food chains are not competitive in the labour market, they will miss out on labour; just as if they are not competitive on quality and value, they will miss out on custom.

And to be quite honest, I think fast food is a blight on our society, so if we lose Dominos and McDonalds, good riddance to bad rubbish!

This is just whining from business owners.
Like everything else in the economy, if supply is low, up your attraction to increase your appeal. Whining about it is pathetic.
Esepcially when some such businesses (and I know Maccas does this, and Hungry Jacks as well, unsure about Dominos) put their whole workforce on “traineeships” so a substantial chunk of the already low staff salary cost is paid by the government because the kids are supposedly doing bogus “retail traineeships”.

la mente torbida9:17 am 28 Jun 10

It’s not a case of the dole/youth allowance/austudy paying too much….these employers are paying too little!
Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

thy_dungeonman9:00 am 28 Jun 10

As a job-searching 20 year old student, I have to say the biggest problem I face is that most jobs will require experience in a similar job and since most of the jobs require this it creates a catch 22 situation. However I’m not expecting to get an amazing job without relevant experience, I know that hospitality usually hires unskilled workers however I have already had a number of hospitality jobs and while the work and pay was fine, I found them on the whole unrewarding in terms of a sense of achievement. I really wish some (non-hospitality) employers would simply give me a fair go, I’m bright, punctual, have my own transport, very polite, able to do physical work and use computers. I’m free from University on friday, saturday and sunday, if any of the employers commenting want to give me a go.

It annoys me that bd84 tarnishes the majority of young people born since 1989 as lazy.

I have 2 kids born post 89 – one who just turned 15 who simply does not yet have time to work due to her schooling and extra curricular activities (but belive me, she is keen to start and will be as soon as she is able) and one university student who has been working since he was 15 at a major retailer – where he still works part time 4 years later. He has also added in a hospitality job as well, and occasionally works both in the same day, regularly working upwards of 45 hours a week as well as studying full time.

He is certainly not alone – most of his friends have similar stories. To make a claim that the majority of them are lazy is perhaps a relection of those that bd84 knows rather than a true picture of what the majority are really like.

I must admit though that it was me who steered him away from the Dominoes/Maccas/fast food job line, as there are so many opportunities out there where they can learn better skills for their futures than the fast food industry offers. But plenty of his friends went down that route, although most did not last long and went into part time jobs that offered them more than burger flipping.

swamiOFswank said :

I’m just about over hiring Gen Y’s entirely…and we pay above award rates for basically unskilled labour, irrespective of age, and also pay to train our employees up. Those that will commit are few and far between, and the ones that get a start have the hide to backchat their boss – it’s nothing to be told back that you have an attitude problem because you’re expecting them to do (actual) work. Then there are those who think that it’s no privilege to be paid real wages to attend TAFE – and that they deserve to be paid to be there. Believe me, I made $4.50 an hour as an apprentice and my boss never paid my TAFE fees. I’m over Gen Y. Bring on the return-to-work mums and the downsizing-their-roles seniors. Both have far more going for them then the Gen Y mouths who should be renamed Gen Yne. And bring on 8% unemployment!

Where are you, what do you do and how can I get an interview?

My previous post thinks I’m quoting myself ie “Cameron said” when in fact I was quoting Tetranitrate. 🙂

My girls worked while still at college, it gave them the incentive to stay at school, they now have great jobs, and it teachers them to manage their wages, also to be responsible adults.

What’s your point? That doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s high enough to entice people to enter the labor force, particularly given that we’re talking about young people who are in all likelyhood still living at home with food/board provided by parents.

My point is that it’s not like employers are trying to pay people a pittance, they’re paying them rates that unions, government, employers and employees have determined are appropriate for the job description. I think you’ll find the vast majority of better paying youth jobs pay more because the award is higher, not because the employer has chosen to pay more.

If young people are unsuitable then… *gasp* hire adults!

*gasp* I did. I also continued to try to give opportunities to the local youths, because I’m not entirely ignorant of the fact that working whilst at school provides invaluable experience (not to mention an income) to those that are keen to take it. The simple fact is, the kids that turned up and did a great job and showed some initiative and enthusiasm got fantastic references from me (and still do) and I know it has led to them getting full time work now that they’ve entered the workforce full time. Others – not so much.

Yeah, I know *I* always work out of sheer altruism for my employer and would totally be doing it all the same were I not being paid a cent.

Don’t be ridiculous – I wasn’t suggesting that anyone work out of sheer altruism for their employer. The relationship between an employer and an employee is a two way street – the employer, if they create a good and rewarding environment with good conditions (good as defined by the relevant industry award) then they are absolutely entitled to expect a whole lot more than the lazy half hearted efforts of hormonal teenagers who are only at work to pay for their Friday night or because their parents make them. At the same time, if a teenage employee turns up, works hard and shows a bit of commitment and enthusiasm then they are entitled to expect that their employer will reward them with advancement, more desirable shifts etc.

If it’s the case that these employers have having such a terrible time with young people whom they’re legally allowed to systematically underpay (junior rates) then they should simply stop crying about it and hire adults.
And if in addition, it isn’t viable to pay the sort of living wage adults demand then perhaps it’s the business model that’s at fault.

Or perhaps it is the system? Junior rates is not underpaying – again, that is what many minds have defined as an appropriate way to pay junior staff. Personally, I’m not a fan of age based pay – I’m a much bigger fan of merit based pay. When I employed a 19-year-old as a store manager, I would have been well within my rights to pay him at 85% of the full time manager wage for that job. I instead reasoned that if I was employing him to fill a role, I would pay him the full rate for that role irrespective of how old he was.

The same was true for other teenagers I employed – if they demonstrated the right attributes and a genuine desire to help me and the store(s) succeed then I would pay them at a higher rate. I would reward their efforts. Those that didn’t put in, didn’t get out.

Suggesting that we cast aside all teenagers and instead employ adults doesn’t wash with me. First of all, teenagers WANT to work hours that adults don’t. They WANT to work after school, they WANT to work shifts where penalty rates will see them get the most cash. Not all adults do. Secondly, whilst the same hormonal teenager issues don’t necessarily apply to adults, the adult workforce suffers from issues of their own.

Whilst not displayed by everyone, and probably not even the majority, there are plenty of employees that think their employer owes them EVERYTHING simply because of the fact that they’ve turned up to work. Employers have taken a risk and have fronted the cash to put that person in the job to begin with – and like I said, it’s a two way street. That said – there are as many bad egg employers out there are as there are dud employees.

I’m sure all of us have been to a retail or fast food outlet and been served by two very different types of teenage staffers – those that clearly want to be there and are clearly good at their job – and those that you wouldn’t hire if someone paid you to.

One incentive to work is having security of home ownership.
Not so long ago you could start with nothing, earn an average wage and become a home owner after many years of work.
This is not possible now. Why work hard when real security is out of reach.
Earn eneogh for your idea of a good time, thats it.
Hey the employers wanted a flexible work force.
they will just have to get slaves on work visa’s.
Don’t get caught driving them to the airport after they are injured.

swamiOFswank11:22 pm 27 Jun 10

I’m just about over hiring Gen Y’s entirely…and we pay above award rates for basically unskilled labour, irrespective of age, and also pay to train our employees up. Those that will commit are few and far between, and the ones that get a start have the hide to backchat their boss – it’s nothing to be told back that you have an attitude problem because you’re expecting them to do (actual) work. Then there are those who think that it’s no privilege to be paid real wages to attend TAFE – and that they deserve to be paid to be there. Believe me, I made $4.50 an hour as an apprentice and my boss never paid my TAFE fees. I’m over Gen Y. Bring on the return-to-work mums and the downsizing-their-roles seniors. Both have far more going for them then the Gen Y mouths who should be renamed Gen Yne. And bring on 8% unemployment!

Tetranitrate10:54 pm 27 Jun 10

Cameron said :

You do of course realise that the vast majority of these employers would be offering pay and conditions as dictated by award rates etc.

What’s your point? That doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s high enough to entice people to enter the labor force, particularly given that we’re talking about young people who are in all likelyhood still living at home with food/board provided by parents.

Cameron said :

My experience as an employer of young people (250 odd over my years as an employer) is pretty similar to those related above. A lot of youth simply expect to turn up and get paid simply for having turned up. There are plenty that don’t appreciate the fact that they are in fact expected to work in exchange for being paid. The casual indifference to work and to the correct treatment of customers amongst young employees was stark and alarming.

If young people are unsuitable then… *gasp* hire adults!

Cameron said :

Whilst there were exceptions to the rule, there weren’t that many. I offered above award conditions, a fantastic working environment with frequent rewards and incentives. Some kids simply don’t care and are more concerned with the dollars than any sort of positive outcome for their employer.

Yeah, I know *I* always work out of sheer altruism for my employer and would totally be doing it all the same were I not being paid a cent.
As before, if the youth of today are so terrible the simple solution is stop whining and hire adults.

If it’s the case that these employers have having such a terrible time with young people whom they’re legally allowed to systematically underpay (junior rates) then they should simply stop crying about it and hire adults.
And if in addition, it isn’t viable to pay the sort of living wage adults demand then perhaps it’s the business model that’s at fault.

Tetranitrate10:43 pm 27 Jun 10

squashee said :

There are two issues here. Firstly, employers are not paying enough to entice young people to work for them and secondly, people are payed too much to sit on the dole and never work.

Implying that the young people they’re after are even living out of home, let alone collecting unemployment benefits.

Fast Food outlets and Restaurants need to bring back penalty rates, why would anyone want to work a night job for the same pay as day work? It is hard work psychically, and then putting up with rude customers. I wonder if the Domino’s owner is talking not only about young one’s working in the shop or including drivers, who would want a dangerous job like that, driving around Canberra, with what’s been happening of late, I for one would not like my teenager doing deliveries at night.

“people are payed too much to sit on the dole and never work.”

You tried living off the dole recently?

I have and it doesn’t come close to being enough to live on.

Man gospeedygo, wtf is wrong with you? Knocked back by Maccas. Have a go at Subway they take anyone! I should know I work there!

divion123 said :

Offer better pay & conditions?

Unlikely! The Labour government through that amazing workers’ friend > the Fair Pay Commission refused to grant a pay increase to 41,000 casual workers at McDonalds last Thursday!

& who is, ooops, was the Minister responsible? no other than Julia Gillard!

Who let Abbott on here???

Me! Here! Over here! I’m looking for a job. I’m not lazy. Too bad its in Belconnen. Incidentally I have been turned down by Maccas amongst others. Fancy that.

You do of course realise that the vast majority of these employers would be offering pay and conditions as dictated by award rates etc.

My experience as an employer of young people (250 odd over my years as an employer) is pretty similar to those related above. A lot of youth simply expect to turn up and get paid simply for having turned up. There are plenty that don’t appreciate the fact that they are in fact expected to work in exchange for being paid. The casual indifference to work and to the correct treatment of customers amongst young employees was stark and alarming.

Whilst there were exceptions to the rule, there weren’t that many. I offered above award conditions, a fantastic working environment with frequent rewards and incentives. Some kids simply don’t care and are more concerned with the dollars than any sort of positive outcome for their employer.

I have to agree with the article, maybe not the ‘lazy’ bit, but certainly about it being impossible to find staff. I own a Subway store in Canberra. We offer better pay than most other retail places, free lunch, clean environment and a friendly atmosphere. No early starts, no late finishes, and yet we are finding it nearly impossible to find decent staff for the store.

Any suggestions from the field for an employer looking to attract late teen staff? ‘Higher pay’ doesn’t work, it’s simply that we don’t get good applicants, it’s not that they are turned off by pay rates.

I always said that I’d never work for Macca’s/Pizza Hut/KFC/Domino’s. I had friends that were working there, but it just diddn’t make sense to me. The pay just diddn’t justify the job IMO.

I went off to work for a “named after a Nepalese city starting with K” retail store, where I actually had an interest/expertise in the area and got paid at least 1.5 times what my good fast-food friends were.

I’d prefer to live without a car (main reason for most of my friends getting jobs from the fast food chains) and catch busses than slave away in front of a hotplate.

Domino’s Belconnen Manager, Mr Hutchinson basically saying young people are too lazy to work – they are probably at home playing x-box… hmm, let’s see, teenagers, with no NEED to work – of course they are! Let them enjoy their youth – before they settle down into responsibilities of families rent/mortgage etc… We need to let our kids be kids, and that goes for our youth too…

Meanwhile, hire some adults – paying adult wages – or offer higher wages to lure some teens in… not brain surgery Mr Hutchinson.

Maybe they should consider running a business that people would be proud to work at.

Clown Killer5:30 pm 27 Jun 10

It’s most likely to be the second one. Canberra’s employment market is bloody tight, so people have plenty of options in seeking a job and employers have to work pretty hard to attract and keep employees. I’m guessing that churning out crap pizzas for fifteen bucks an hour just dosen’t cut it with many people – and hell if you’ve got the choice why would you do that for money?

Offer better pay & conditions?

Unlikely! The Labour government through that amazing workers’ friend > the Fair Pay Commission refused to grant a pay increase to 41,000 casual workers at McDonalds last Thursday!

& who is, ooops, was the Minister responsible? no other than Julia Gillard!

+1 re pay & conditions, especially when employers are competing against Centrelink paying their “customers” so well for doing sweet FA.

+1

Yes it is crazy talk and it’ll never happen.

There are two issues here. Firstly, employers are not paying enough to entice young people to work for them and secondly, people are payed too much to sit on the dole and never work.

If you walk around DFO and even the Canberra Centre the majority of shops are displaying Position Vacant signs. It is very difficult to find young people with a good work ethic and with reliability.

Dominoes has the worst pay conditions no wonder they cant get staff.

Offer the kids pay and conditions that are better than what? The $0 they earn sitting at home doing nothing?

Prior to leaving high school (and having have something that made me slightly more employable, i.e. a Yr 12 cert) if I wanted my ‘own’ money I got a job. Some paid better than others but it got me my own money.

I’m with Mr. Hutchinson here, the yoof of today have attention spans of gnats and the get up and go of a 3 toed sloth

Agreed. Would be interesting to see how much staff turnover Mr Hutchinson accrues through his management style.

I’ve never seen a decent manager have a great deal of problems retaining staff as there’s plenty of egomaniac shockers out there and workers know when they’ve got some decent manager who knows everyone is there to do their jobs, not submit to some weird feudal loyalty caper that some of these clowns get in their heads when handed a sliver of power for the first time in their life!

The difficulty with fast food chains is that they are only willing to pay junior wages to 16 year olds in order to keep costs low enough to sell cheap food and still make a profit for the owner. I bet if they opened up the positions to adult workers at adult wages, they wouldn’t have vacancies.

word. this made me rage on this morning when i read it. also the article says something about how they cant find kids to fill “full and part time” positions – REALLY. apparently they would rather people working at dominos instead of in school. call me crazy but i’d rather have focused on finishing y12 than doing 25 hrs a week.

but having said that, i dont know ANYONE who didn’t have a job in highschool and college, and it wasn’t that long ago. i’m pretty bloody sick of this ‘lets shit on lazy gen y’ bullshit.

Tetranitrate1:22 pm 27 Jun 10

Having worked in quite a few different hospitality related jobs over the years from high school through to uni, ranging from fast-food through to nightclubs and hotels, I do believe you’re correct in your assessment.
I worked at maccas when I was a fair bit younger, and the pay was pathetic (~$11 an hour as an 18 y/o), yet generally the amount and intensity of the work was actually a lot more then working in a hotel, in catering, or in a bar because Maccas *never* had what in any other job would be considered an adequate number of staff on. It strikes me as similar in most other fast food places. Why would anyone want to work in these sorts of places when there is less intense, less stressfull work which is still more or less entry level, that pays more!?!?

On a somewhat related note, I actually very much preferred the AWA I was on back before they got rid of them, because the pay was pretty good and everyone doing the same job was on the same damn contract. In a lot of places there’s a tendency for the relatively small number of full time workers who are members of the union to sell out largely younger, non-member casuals who make up the greater part of the workforce.
As I started at maccas they’d *just* got rid of weekend pay loading for casuals in whatever the collective agreement or whatever was. It’s a similar story with the ‘junior rates’ – and in that case some unions(*cough* SDA) actually support them!

Well, at $6.95 a pizza, the first three pizzas every hour barely cover the cost of their minimum wages.

The other part of this story was Supabarn complaining that there wasn’t a supply of qualified staff (like butchers) they could tap into for free and they were having to resort to training their own staff.

It amuses me the amount that companies pay in training and trying to get new staff when a slight increase in pay will keep many there and save all the extra effort and training costs!.

georgesgenitals12:53 pm 27 Jun 10

Most of the ‘kids’ who used to do these kind of jobs can now find better jobs, and those who are left are, typically, lazier by nature.

So the entry level employers get the numpties. Which is why service in this part of the hospitality sector is garbage in this town.

I can assure you that there is very little wrong with most employers in the retail/fast food industry, the employees are all on fairly generous union negotiated certified agreements. The pay rates reflect the basic work expected of them.

Unfortunately what the employers are saying us absolutely correct and has been a problem for at least the last 5 years back when I was still working in the industry. A large portion of kids born in about 1989 onwards are absolutely the laziest people in this city as they can’t be bothered working.

Gone are the days of kids lining up for jobs to work after school and weekends. Even when employers do hire these kids, they think the word casual means “show up if I feel like it and when I want to” and can provide every excuse possible for not showing up and their parents are normally willing participants.

I’m sure most people have stood in a long line at the supermarket or at the fast food place and complained about why there wasn’t more people serving, it’s normally because the kids working there haven’t shown up and the employers can’t get people to replace them.

Lazy is an accurate description.

screaming banshee11:52 am 27 Jun 10

When I started my apprenticeship I wasn’t going to be earning as much as my friends that worked at macca’s until I was a third year. I dare say a few years later that those who hung around to become ‘management’ were probably earning more than me when I was a third year too.

I dont know what the going rate is but in most franchises its unskilled labour in the truest sense.

+10 Johnboy.

Maybe the fact that those of us who’ve worked in fast food restaurant chains did not enjoy the experience, or learn anything from it, beyond the fact that we knew damn sure we didn’t want to ever return to it?

Maybe that encouraged us to knuckle down at our studies more, and to encourage younger friends and relatives to do the same?

Maybe that 97.5% of Canberrans are employed (at least officially) and therefore all of those with the customer service skills and numeracy levels are either working else, or doing volunteer work to build their skills for something a bit higher?

Perhaps there are indeed some young people who don’t wish to work. After all, they watch their parents and others go off to work each day, and not all of those adults seem to enjoy their work, so why would they rush into something they percieve as miserable before they had to?

And finally, hands up who wishes to work at Domino’s or McDonald’s for their long-term career? As the article mentions, there are some, and good luck to them – but it appears many of them have only discovered that desire after they begin working there.

The hospitality industry needs to think long and hard about why it’s not seen as an attractive long-term career, alongside the other industries with skills shortages.

Professor Richard Florida (he of the “Creative Class” theory) says that we all need to find a way to make service industry jobs more creative and inherently interesting, or we will all find that it impacts upon us. See http://www.creativeclass.com

i think it is the hours / security.

parents don’t like their kids finishing up after dark in places like dickson or that dodgy back bit of belco by the lake.

I don’t think that’s crazy talk at all!

I think it used to be that fast food joints and supermarkets were the only jobs around for young people still at school. Ten years ago when I was looking for my first casual job, my choices were McDonalds or Woolworths.

Now there seem to be a lot more options, particularly in the shopping malls. Why work stupid hours at Maccas and Dominos when they can get staff discounts at Dendy, cheap books atreading at Borders or play with the puppies at a pet store? Or, get hospitality experience at a restaurant or cafe?

You’re right JB, that perhaps McDonalds and Dominos need to make their wages and conditions a little more appealing to compete with other employment opportunities for teenagers…

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