3 June 2011

Your money to prop up the Labor party [With Poll]

| johnboy
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The Canberra Times has a story on plans by the Labor Government to pay licenced clubs (of which the Labor party owns four with some skin in the game at two more) around $30 million to cover the costs of the Andrew Wilkie poker reforms.

The Canberra Labor Club group, which operates nearly 10 per cent of the city’s poker machines, could stand to benefit by up to $3million in cash or tax breaks as the ACT Government looks for Commonwealth backing to provide local clubs with a $30million soft landing.

Canberra’s pokies industry says that the Government ministers are in an untenable position, acting as regulators for the pokies trade while their party benefits from the proceeds of gambling.

Gaming Minister Andrew Barr has said that it would cost $25 million to retrofit or replace Canberra’s gambling machines with the new technology and up to $6 million to install a central monitoring capability and that the capital’s clubs could not afford to shoulder the expense without government help.

But the minister says the ACT Government will expect Commonwealth support for the cost of compensating the territory’s clubs for the massive expenditure.

And this way the clubs’ massive contributions to the re-election of the Labor party can continue uninterrupted.

Taxpayer support of pokie parlours

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Chop71 said :

rip em out and put on some live music, clubs are boring!!!

Damn straight! Soul-sucking infernal machines. Melt ’em down and sell the scrap.

rip em out and put on some live music, clubs are boring!!!

How is this all going? SBS has just reported (I only half heard) something about the ACT Government hand in glove with the clubs “insisting on a trial” re Wilkie’s pre-commitment insistence. Nuh. Let’s get ACT Labor off the gambling revenue drip and give the ratepayers who are picking up the tab for so many neglected kids, a bit of a break.

canberralocal6:50 pm 05 Jun 11

creative_canberran said :

Nice to see the ACT Labor Government are just as corrupt as the recently routed NSW and Victorian counterparts. Pity the alternatives are so dire. Libs who can’t spell their own MLA’s names nor write policy or The Greens who at the first chance will outlaw cars and rename the ACT “New Cuba”.

As for the clubs, stuff them. If they can’t turn a profit from things other than gambling, too bad. Plenty of other places to get cheap, nasty meals and crappy entertainment.

+1 for all of the above.

The Frots said :

Whats the difference between a politician and a flathead? Ones a scum sucking , bottom dweller…………………………and the other is a fish!

+++++++++1

shadow boxer1:52 am 05 Jun 11

No I am saying these are private sporting, social or community clubs using internal gambling among their members to raise funds for the benefit of the same members. Very different to NSW where pokie profits go in someones pocket.

You dont have to join or gamble if you don/t like it. I’m also saying this scheme is a massive waste of money because it simply wont achieve anything except further centralising thr club industry to the big players as smaller clubs wont be able to afford it.

PantsMan said :

I suppose this is one way to get a Independant Commission Against Coruption for the London Circut Soviet.

Marching a NSW Govt Agency operating under NSW Law across the ACT border to investigate the ACT bureaucracy?
Good luck with that.

(Also, do we even have such an entity for ACT Govt?)

I suppose this is one way to get a Independant Commission Against Coruption for the London Circut Soviet.

I also found it VERY FUNNY when they changed the gaming tax schedules in a 2005 (in a technical amendment Bill) to hit smaller clubs harder, while leaving larger clubs paying the same!?!

shadow boxer said :

Yeh probably wrong thread but if you change the rules to the extent that a legitimate business can’t survive you need to compensate the business.

It would be a fair enough call ordinarily, but the very _legitimacy_ of the Minister’s interest here is up for question due to the acknowledged association and influence issues of the Labor Party being a beneficiary or the Labor Club Group’s operations, and for the ACT Government (through that Minister) to so quickly volunteer ACT taxpayer cash as compensation for a Commonwealth Outcome before any legislation or regulation is tabled, funded, or even has policy developed is -mighty- strange.

shadow boxer said :

$31 million just in the ACT…

And for an industry that already gets a 40 million dollar deduction, has almost 200 million in revenue locally, and almost two billion dollars wagered locally per annum, a ome-off cost absorbption isn’t a big ask.
Buy the tech and let it depreciate like any other business asset.

shadow boxer said :

Here’s a self regulation idea for you that wont cost anyone anything, if you dont want to gamble… Don’t join the club or cancel your membership.

Wait, so in your mind Clubs are synonymous with gambling?
Strange then, that they claim to only use the poker machines as a means of supporting their primary activities, then.
The only entities that supports gambling for the sake if gambling tend to be casinos and TABs.
Should we regulate, tax, and oversee Clubs as much a we do those?

I-filed said :

Where the hell is our Opposition when we need one?

Where the hell is your support for an opposition when we need one?

Too many people blindly voting for and supporting one party = weak opposition, plus a government who knows they have a LOT of leeway to just walk all over you again and again. They will get voted in again anyway.

If you want a strong / existant opposition, how about supporting one? (crazy talk, I know)

shadow boxer6:22 pm 04 Jun 11

Yeh probably wrong thread but if you change the rules to the extent that a legitimate business can’t survive you need to compensate the business.

$31 million just in the ACT for an idea that quite clearly wont work is somewhat ridiculous, the clubs will just have generic pre-filled out forms that pre commit for $10,000 and you sign it on the way in.

Here’s a self regulation idea for you that wont cost anyone anything, if you dont want to gamble or dont trust yourself, don’t join the club or cancel your membership.

Scum. Mongrels. Bastards.

My blood boiled when I read this. I’ve voted Labor almost all my life, but the situation in the ACT is so bad that I feel compelled to vote against these turds at the next election.

I never thought I’d see the bloody day.

creative_canberran5:39 pm 04 Jun 11

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

If you don’t like the way your club is run get involved, if you’re not a member it’s not really your problem or concern.

It damn well is when tax payer money may be paid to sustain clubs.

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club.

Are you sure you’re in the right topic?
The clubs who are begging for a handout of public money to maintain their business operations?

Those private Clubs?
I never said I wanted a share of their money, but somehow when those ‘private’ clubs feel they deserve a share of your taxes, I”m the one with entitlement issues?

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

Would those be the same private clubs that are being given taxpayers’ money to allow them to maintain their business model?

I-filed said :

Where the hell is our Opposition when we need one?

Who knows?

I thought, ‘perhaps the Canberra media aren’t reporting those nasty Libs’ (not unheard of), so I looked for something, anything on their website, and the lastest thing is this:
http://canberraliberals.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=1574&nav_cat_id=168&nav_top_id=55

So unless there’s a sneak attack brewing, there’s nothing from the Libs.

As for the Greens (ok, I know a coalition partner is not an opposition, but I live in hope), nothing there either.

So, opposition? What opposition would that be?

Where the hell is our Opposition when we need one?

shadow boxer6:08 am 04 Jun 11

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

If you don’t like the way your club is run get involved, if you’re not a member it’s not really your problem or concern.

Ban the lot – they do far more harm than good.

creative_canberran said :

….or The Greens who at the first chance will outlaw cars and rename the ACT “New Cuba”.

I’m happy to go along with that, so long as there is plenty of rum.

creative_canberran6:26 pm 03 Jun 11

Nice to see the ACT Labor Government are just as corrupt as the recently routed NSW and Victorian counterparts. Pity the alternatives are so dire. Libs who can’t spell their own MLA’s names nor write policy or The Greens who at the first chance will outlaw cars and rename the ACT “New Cuba”.

As for the clubs, stuff them. If they can’t turn a profit from things other than gambling, too bad. Plenty of other places to get cheap, nasty meals and crappy entertainment.

dungfungus said :

No matter what way you look at it, there is something obscene about a political party owning a “community” club that preys on people with a terrible gambling addiction. Imagine the fuss there would be if, say, the Liberal Party started “The Liberal Club” with the aim of raising campaign money through alcohol sales and gaming.

They probably should start such a club. Ironically though, if both major parties owned large dens of gambling, drinking and sin Community based clubs, then all the clubs would loose some of the motivation to donate to the politicians, since they would know that someone has an interest in pokies no matter who gets in.

Whats the difference between a politician and a flathead? Ones a scum sucking , bottom dweller…………………………and the other is a fish!

There’s a word for this: corruption.

No matter what way you look at it, there is something obscene about a political party owning a “community” club that preys on people with a terrible gambling addiction. Imagine the fuss there would be if, say, the Liberal Party started “The Liberal Club” with the aim of raising campaign money through alcohol sales and gaming. Also, this nonsense that the clubs are claiming that poker machines subsidise member’s meals is nonsense. Most catering in the large clubs is outsourced now and this is why it is expensive, generally bland and tasteless. There was a time when community clubs functioned without poker machines and it would be great to return to those times.

neanderthalsis11:26 am 03 Jun 11

Not a bad deal for the Labor/tradies clubs, they’re getting a nice little return on the $500 000 odd that they donate annually to ACT Labor. Now if only their pokies machines paid the same sort of returns…

no taxpayer’s money was given to canberra’s smaller venues that could not afford the licence hike last year after the new laws were introduced, therefore no taxpayer’s money should be given to clubs when these new laws are introduced
sink or swim……..same attitude as was taken last year i reckon…….

Short of doing a sector-level Revenue vs Costs analysis with outlet-level granularity or a systemic audit, you’re not going to see total accuracy in information.
If you in any way wanted to reduce the number of poker machines in use, surely you would actually push for clubs to recover their own costs on a user-pays basis, or dip into their 24% ‘net revenue’ deductible, which adds up to about $40mil per year.
The entire point of giving them that $40mil deduction is so that they can maintain their poker machine operations.

NGMR [as in the bit the 'Community benefit' contributions come from], as defined in the legislation, is calculated as follows:
Gross Gaming Machine Revenue (GGMR) derived by the licensee, less:
a) any amount of gaming machine tax payable on the GGMR; and
b) 24% of GGMR.
GGMR is the total of all moneys inserted into machines less winnings to players and approved amounts set aside for the payment of linked jackpots. The 24% deduction is recognition of the expenses a licensee incurs in gaming machine operations.

Source: Page 1, Community Contributions made by Gaming Machine Licensees 1 July 2009 to 30 June 2010, ACT Gambling and Racing Commission, October 2010

But for reference, giving a $30 million handout to the entire Gaming sector with no strings attached is equivalent to giving them a one-year tax exemption.

Its terrible policy to keep increasing the tax burden on your entire population (including your precious working families…) because you want to give tax breaks to the end of town already with the deepest pockets.

Remind me again Mr Barr, why did we allow the Labor Club Group to own the Labor Party the Labor Party to have an associated entity in the Gaming sector?

I love that song by The Whitlams

NO…………………………NO…………………………..NO!

Taxpayers shouldn’t be footing the bill for businesses who can’t afford to comply with legislation changes.

qbngeek said :

Really Andrew? Honestly? You really expect us to believe that the clubs can’t cough up $30 million in total between them? I reckon the aggressive taking over of smaller clubs has cost them more than $30 million and everytime I walk into any of the clubs in Canberra they seem to be spending money on doing the joint up.

Before we give them any money, lets see honest independent figures of what they pull out of pokies each year. If they can recoup thier costs within 5 years then they don’t deserve a cent. Having worked in several small businesses and owning my own I can tell you that I have always planned for a major investment to be paid off in 5 years. I know many business owners who work on 7 or 10 year plans and finance the investment accordingly.

+1

Really Andrew? Honestly? You really expect us to believe that the clubs can’t cough up $30 million in total between them? I reckon the aggressive taking over of smaller clubs has cost them more than $30 million and everytime I walk into any of the clubs in Canberra they seem to be spending money on doing the joint up.

Before we give them any money, lets see honest independent figures of what they pull out of pokies each year. If they can recoup thier costs within 5 years then they don’t deserve a cent. Having worked in several small businesses and owning my own I can tell you that I have always planned for a major investment to be paid off in 5 years. I know many business owners who work on 7 or 10 year plans and finance the investment accordingly.

If it costs so much to up grade the machines to be compliant that is isn’t worth it, why don’t they just rip them out and go without?

Surely the clubs can finance the upgrade with loans against the huge income stream they will get from the upgraded machines?

Ohhh, wait, they already have financial commitments against that income stream. So now they are in a position where they can’t afford to upgrade to a standard where they will get the gaming revenue, and they also can’t afford to go without the gaming revenue.

Hell of a way to run a business, especially when a big chunk of you income comes from something as heavily regulated and politically variable as gambling machines.

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