1 March 2011

Your taxes: Luxury public housing for teen mum?

| babeeshka
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I wonder when people make decisions that end up providing one single mum with three places to go to the toilet if they consider that only too often the people they are taxing to provide for it often live in less ideal circumsances. Where is the sense of proportionality? Why should bad life decisions be rewarded with what, given the ACT govts policy of life long tenancy, is equivalent to winning the lottery?

Personally I live with a crappy cupboard sized bathroom which serves two adults and two kids.

Below is an excerpt from the sale of a property similar to that given to one young mother I know know whose only distinction in life is to get pregant twice to different fathers at an early age. Her long-term unemployed boyfriend is provided with separate housing. He wants a “large family” and with 3 children between them already (two to different partners) they are working towards another one (she actually sadly just lost a baby).

I wouldn’t mind if it wasn’t planned to be entirely at the expense of our taxes, which in the inner north are becoming unaffordable. Tenants aren’t excempt because your landlord is now paying in the vicininty of $6000 towards the ACT govt in land tax (this is passed on to you or your landlord will soon sell).

Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

THIS IS AN EXCERT FROM A SALE OF A PROPERTY SIMILAR TO THAT PROVIDED TO ONE SINGLE MOTHER BRAND NEW.

“Enjoy luxury living with this superb like new, beautifully appointed terrace style townhouse positioned on the end.

“From the moment you enter this stunning energy efficient, light filled three bedroom, ensuite residence that presents like new, you will be captivated by the feel, look and style on offer. North facing to the rear and featuring stunning separate formal and informal living areas, terrific kitchen with stone bench tops and first class fixtures and fittings. Each of the lovely bedrooms feature built in robes with the huge master boasting a large balcony and spacious ensuite with double size shower. Other features include extensive tiling, quality carpets, double garage with remote control door, exquisite bathrooms and a powder room downstairs, all which add to the appeal of this fine townhouse. The large outdoor area is just fantastic with an expansive lawn area, ample room for entertaining plus plenty of room for the kids and pets. Set in a quiet location with a brilliant outlook to both Mount Majura and Mount Ainslie. Walk to schools, shops, transport, Farmers market at epic and the reserve whilst still being only minutes to the city. Just move in and enjoy this stunning home.”

This is not meant to be a general judgement on public housing or those in public housing but to provide a personal specific example of what has occured in the ACT on our watch

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Watson said :

vintagediva said :

You are investing to increase your future wealth and that requires sacrifice and hard work. I can understand your frustration with the system, but there are many people who are indeed in a worse way than you and rather than gripe about them, why don’t we focus on how we can make ourselves better (despite the system)?

+1

PS: What do I need to do to deserve RiotActers to do a working bee at my place? How much details about my personal circumstances do you need? Does it matter that I don’t bear any grudges to people who seem to have it easy compared to me?
PS2: I’m in a private rental, does that matter? Or are working bees only for investment property owners?

I am in! What do you need? I am generally unskilled, but can provide sweat and hard yakka.

vintagediva said :

You are investing to increase your future wealth and that requires sacrifice and hard work. I can understand your frustration with the system, but there are many people who are indeed in a worse way than you and rather than gripe about them, why don’t we focus on how we can make ourselves better (despite the system)?

+1

PS: What do I need to do to deserve RiotActers to do a working bee at my place? How much details about my personal circumstances do you need? Does it matter that I don’t bear any grudges to people who seem to have it easy compared to me?
PS2: I’m in a private rental, does that matter? Or are working bees only for investment property owners?

Btw without stiopping by to read personal negative comments by people like Monty directed at my departing back or subject myself to more endless cross-examination about my personal circumstances I want to say that Pommie bastard I care about people like you and genuine social justice. I care that young kids are slogging their guts out in IGA to pay for little miss entitlements to produce families of eight (yes, eight) neglected and abused kids (quite a drain on the health and education budget huh?). I care that the odds are stacked against the kids I see working hard and giving it a go and I care that the odds will be stacked against children produced by a system that rewards irresponsible mothers with an entitlement mentality.

Pommiebastard I hate social workers who contribute to the social injustice you’re talking about. I wish people had taken up the issues you raised rather than just taking pot shots at me. Maybe we can have a bbq some time and invite over some social workers- I hear they make wonderful kebabs.

Compassion does not require leaving your brain at the front door.

When I see someone raising two children in government housing with a partner working I applaud that they are getting help from the govt, although I feel sorry for the satansmans of this world that face a hard road getting into the property market. I find it interesting that no-one cares when they get kicked out of their home although they’ll squawk about ‘justice’ and fight to keep public housing empty for twelve years for a criminal in jail. Funnily enough the ones who are doing the right thing after one ‘mistake’ (although its hard to call a beautiful well-behaved child a mistake) know they are lucky. In the words of another young mum I know who is doing a great job with her children “we get a house for life. They are never getting me out. I don’t know what people like little miss entitlement are complaining about.’

So why is little miss entitlement so angry when she now has luxury housing FOR LIFE that she has done nothing to earn? Because she knows deep down she is getting ripped off. She can stop having children and work but she faces an effective tax rate of 80%. How much easier to just have another child. Because if you don’t work for something you don’t appreciate it as much as you do if you don’t. Because if you don’t work and overcome obsacles you don’t know how any one else has managed and assume they must be “lucky,” or got more than you were given.

You may even, like little miss entitlement, resent someone who isn’t able to have children and has been trying unsuccessfully for several years for the fact they can ‘afford’ ivf- (“yes Monty you DO get the whiff of a medicare rebate here- put it back in your pants- you are tilting at windmills).

Now the bit where I stick up for myself: I am the type of person who will take someone elses disadvantaged child out to dinner at a Korean restaurant because I want to expose them to more culture than they are getting at home. I am the type of person who refuses to put up a low income workers rent up to unaffordable levels but will instead take on extra costs as a reduction in my own standard of living- even when I myself, am showering under a garden tap in winter, pregnant. Imagine the headline if I was a public housing tennant doing this?!?! But I’ll let you in on a little secret. It was actually quite fun. I am also that happiest person I know and my children- well, they are truly delightful. The adjective used most often in relation to them is “JOY.” I wonder why? I guess I must just be lucky.

babeeshka said :

Btw I couldn’t help but duck back in to tweak your noses and send you into paroxysms of envy by letting you know that I am also Satansman’s landlord. I can’t believe you missed it.

So let me get this straight… you own two houses and once you sell the one you are in, you’ll probably be able to pay off the one you are moving into (or near to it…?)? So you’ll own a home worth over half a mill…

You are investing to increase your future wealth and that requires sacrifice and hard work. I can understand your frustration with the system, but there are many people who are indeed in a worse way than you and rather than gripe about them, why don’t we focus on how we can make ourselves better (despite the system)?

When’s the working bee?

babeeshka said :

If any bleeding hearts out there in my community who are so fond of the chronically unemployed and single mothers whose condoms keep breaking have genuine compassion and would like to help me out getting my house ready to sell – I would love to hear from you.

Sounds like a working bee! I’m in!! (I am a little bit of a bleeding heart, but think of myself as more of a pragmatist/realist if that’s ok)

Maybe what we’re all missing here is a real community? How about this – we organise a working bee for babeeshka and then everyone else who wants it in RIOT-ACT?

babeeshka – anything particular you require? tiling? grouting? painting? or just hard labour? (and just in case you think I am being a cynical and sarcastic, I am not) …. come on RIOT-ACT, let’s be a real community and help each other out!

babeeshka said :

I can’t believe you missed it.

Perhaps if you wrote a tad more coherently?

georgesgenitals10:38 pm 05 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

1. to negative gear you have to have a loss first. Just like any business if you lose $5000 a year that is recognised when your income is taken into account for tax consideration. So at the maximum rate of 50% you will get back $2500 leaving you effectively $2500 out of pocket for that year

Yeah but here’s the problem: you DON’T get 50% back! You get back proportional to your tax rate. Realistically, you get back 30%, not 50%, which is why negative gearing is not, in itself, a good way to buy property (barring some specific exceptions).

To the bleeding heart left:

Btw I couldn’t help but duck back in to tweak your noses and send you into paroxysms of envy by letting you know that I am also Satansman’s landlord. I can’t believe you missed it.

Satansman (devils advocate) is a low income nice guy sharing a house, together they are paying $350 a week rent of which half is immediately consumed by land tax and rates because someone in the Stanhope govt was envious and decided to up land tax .25 % of pv at a time land tax was already going through the roof. This mainly effects non-units and is particularly bad in the inner north and south.

Hopefully Satansman will be able to move into somewhere else with reasonable rent. Once I sell my house and move in to his I’ll be well off-but I would not like to be in his situation.

Property investment 101 for the envious:
1. to negative gear you have to have a loss first. Just like any business if you lose $5000 a year that is recognised when your income is taken into account for tax consideration. So at the maximum rate of 50% you will get back $2500 leaving you effectively $2500 out of pocket for that year
2. if you don’t have an income you can’t negative gear
3. many investors aren’t in it for quick cash of capital gains (which is also taxed) but to sacrifice or save now because they recognise they are in crap super funds and want a stable source of income when they retire.
4. Negative gearing can’t compensate you for the time and effort you put into your property when your tennants wreck it because they believe you to be capitalistic pigs who deserve it
5. far from being wealthy many investors are on the same incomes as everyone else and don’t “have” two properties what they have is two mortgages
6. to pay no income tax an investor would have to reduce their liveable income to nothing
7. Many items such as a new fridge or fence are up-front costs that are not negative gearable in any real sense.

Now many of you might delight that you have driven me to the point where I am selling my home and moving into Satanmans but sadly I’m going to have to rain on your parade. The last time the labour government tried to cut negative gearing rather than leading to a fall in property values it lead to a crisis in rental accomodation and wait for it…the irony is beautiful…increased demand for public housing.

Complex isn’t it?

Anyway I won’t wait around to hear your shrieks of indignation. I’ve been told I’m lucky by the envious, like the girl I was talking about who hasn’t worked an eight hour day in her life, all my life. What do you really expect me to say? Yes you’re right. You poor thing to have two kids without a job. I’m really sorry you were born with no common sense and weren’t there when the job bus went around handing out jobs like lollies.

BYE ;))

@ Monty Ha ha Monty that is so funny because I’d just popped back in to post a very humorous post at your expense. But I’ll divert: I judged my “friend,” who you really remind me of, after hearing her talk. Telling me I’m “lucky” and having her attack me for no reason as “going nowhere and doing nothing with my life.” Ha ha ha. Like you reality had no effect on shaking her world view that she was the most picked on and unfortunate person on earth. I’ve provided enough examples for you of her entitlement mentality, that to keep reversing the tables and accusing me of envy in a neat post-modern fashion either you must be having immense fun, you are stupid, or you are so busy making your next point you can’t actually understand what is being said.

As I’ve made it perfectly clear the facts I’ve shared about my life weren’t a sympathy grap, I don’t need or want your sympathy but a futile attempt to shake you loose from your nice safe assumptions about the big bad world and what it “owes” you. You know what? Life struggles have only made me stronger and happier. In the words of my favourite song, “thanks for making me a fighter.”

I wasn’t complaining about paying taxes in general, I’m not envious and I don’t have a mental illness. When did I say that I’d never benefited from society?

@busgirl I also have two friends in housing on a combined income of $150,000. It’s just the way it works in Canberra. I personally don’t care because they are both contributing towards the system, probably paying back more than what it cost the government to buy the houses back in year dot. You’d really have to ask them for their reasons.

beejay # 76

The land owner will be selling the land so it can be bulldozed to put up units, that’s what’s happening all around where I live.

vix # 24

Yep always like to get a bit! lol

Mothy # 55
+ 1
babeeshka # 34
What makes you so special, don’t you think that most people in their lives have gone through similar circumstances? Or had tragedies in their lives. You sound like you are in your early thirties, wait till your older, and you can’t work, or work for long periods, at least you can work, you sound very cynical and bitter, if like you say you went to uni, do you have your own home? Why be jealous of these other people. Who cares!

ummm…why is your neighbour in Housing when she owns an investment property? Surely she should be living in her investment property to free up the Housing property for someone else?

Pommy bastard5:19 pm 04 Mar 11

Mothy said :

What you have had happen to you is relevant only to you.

It might be sad, tragic, and hard, but it does not have a bearing on the criteria that Housing use when assessing whether a 19 year old single mum is eligible for placement – There is no “Babeeshka Index” through which Housing make their assessments.

When looking at what others receive, you will always be better served to leave aside your experience, and know that just because you cannot understand or see what befell them to get them where they are, does not mean it is there.

If you’d have done better in the same circumstances – well, good for you.

Take some pride from that, rather than spite.

And walk away.

.

Typical apologist claptrap.
Who is prioritised for housing?
Who jumps the queue?
Who claims benefits having never contributed?
Who has armies of social workers and do-gooders looking after their interests?
Who gets extra?

Housing someone who is a low paid worker, who has contributed to the social fund, who does not want to stay in public accommodation, who may have put off child rearing until they can provide a decent home and life for a CHILD, will always take second place to housing the feckless teenagers who have never worked, have no desire to work, will be happy to live in public accommodation for the rest of their days, has no intention of providing a good prospect for their kids, and those who will blow their benefits on drugs, and will indulge in other petty crime.

If public housing was awarded on merit, rather than on who can rack up the most points, we’d soon see a shift in attitude towards it.

I speak from experience here, long experience.

babeeshka said :

I don’t think it unreasonable to have a sense of entitlement that if you work and contribute to society that you will get some benefit for it.

Let go back to those statistics again;
* 23.9% Education and Training
* 14.5% TAMS
* 25.6% Health & Hospitals

You’ve been educated in schools, and made it to University. If you’ve been working for 20 years, your university education likely had a greater proportion of its funding coming from Government sources than it would were it to have occurred now.

Might I suggest if you feel the need to extract further upon the benefits of society you take a walk in the park? 14.5% of your taxes went to fund them, be sure to extract the benefit from that.

Or if indeed your past and the troubles you experienced are haunting you, as it perhaps you should use some of the health benefit and speak to someone professional about it.

babeeshka said :

Ironically the ones on Austudy were all from wealthy backgrounds and knew how to negotiate the system

This one, Babeeshka, was the best pointer to what’s irking you the most. You did it hard, others have it easier. They did then, and they do now.

I won’t try to contest your past with you, because you’re the best judge of it. The reason you’re finding it difficult to get sympathy for it, despite the increasing detail of it, is that you’re expressing what is your problem – i.e. jealousy – through trying to bring others back to your level. By taking away from, or riling against the provision to, others what you never had for yourself.

You attempt to discredit their right to a second chance. You’ve judged them.

And the Colorful Racing Identity, in asking why you didn’t report crimes to the police/crime stoppers, is simply pointing out how hollow your judgment is – you don’t actually care what they’ve done, you only care that the “reward” that they have received has not been received by you too.

But can I tell you something?

What you have had happen to you is relevant only to you.

It might be sad, tragic, and hard, but it does not have a bearing on the criteria that Housing use when assessing whether a 19 year old single mum is eligible for placement – There is no “Babeeshka Index” through which Housing make their assessments.

When looking at what others receive, you will always be better served to leave aside your experience, and know that just because you cannot understand or see what befell them to get them where they are, does not mean it is there.

If you’d have done better in the same circumstances – well, good for you.

Take some pride from that, rather than spite.

And walk away.

Oh, and one last thing – Heavs @ #37 was just trying to inject some humor. A little laugh once in a while goes a long way.

georgesgenitals2:07 pm 04 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

I find I’m being goaded into revealing my life only to be mocked so I won’t be returning to this site. Its a bit pointless. And no, before you rub your hands in glee and sharpen your sarcasm I’m not going off to cry I’m taking my daughter to the park.

Thanks for the supportive comments-those that gave them 🙂 Its good to know you’re out there.

Overcoming true adversity is not something a lot of people will thank you for, because few manage it.

colourful sydney racing identity2:04 pm 04 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

I find I’m being goaded into revealing my life only to be mocked so I won’t be returning to this site. Its a bit pointless. And no, before you rub your hands in glee and sharpen your sarcasm I’m not going off to cry I’m taking my daughter to the park.

Thanks for the supportive comments-those that gave them 🙂 Its good to know you’re out there.

Don’t forget to pop in at the cop-shop on the way to the park, you know, to dob in your ‘friend’.

I find I’m being goaded into revealing my life only to be mocked so I won’t be returning to this site. Its a bit pointless. And no, before you rub your hands in glee and sharpen your sarcasm I’m not going off to cry I’m taking my daughter to the park.

Thanks for the supportive comments-those that gave them 🙂 Its good to know you’re out there.

I also want to make it clear that after I greedily stuffed myself with half a bolognaise meal as well as being unable to afford a train and bus ticket I was i also unable to eat for the next couple of days. And while it might be fun to call me a whining “pussy” I think the fact someone can do that after I’ve mentioned sexual, physical and emotional abuse proves my point that the “left” has no genuine compassion only ideology.

@racing identity Why is this so important to you? What point are you trying to make with it? I’m not going to answer questions about serious criminal activity on a public forum. Re the pitbulls- if anyone did dob them in they would put down the puppies.

Re drugs it was a small part of my response to being asked to provide further details of the situation or risk sounding like I was projecting “my own sense of entitlement” onto her. She feels entitled to get moved to better housing by complaining about the neighbourhood where it was (is) occuring while directly benefiting from the problem. Full stop. Another young person I know in housing complained that there were nails in her back yard and housing hadn’t come to clean them up so her kids couldn’t play. I’m surprised it didn’t hit the papers. She is a gorgeous person but it had genuinely not occured to her to pick them up herself. I also know an older hard working single mum in housing with a do it yourself mentality- she lives next door to me and I admire her. Contrary to your expectations she owns an investment property.

Are you genuinely interested or do you just want to try and be clever and mock me because you’ve decided I’m a big fat meany? Why do I feel like I’m being led down various side-streets by a pack of wolves eager that I slip so they can misconstrue my words, take them out of context, divert attention from what I’m saying, focus on irrelevancies and devour me? That was why I didn’t answer your question. Not the fact that I didn’t have a computer at uni. I don’t even know what you want to achieve here with this question.

georgesgenitals1:09 pm 04 Mar 11

beejay76 said :

breda said :

beejay said:

They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.
——————————————————————
Yes, they will. If he is not earning any money from the property, he won’t be taxed.

Whatever the reason was for your eviction, that wasn’t it, though, unless you were being charged $50 a week rent. More likely he wants to redevelop the site, and didn’t want to spend money on maintenance in the meantime. Or, he was re-arranging his tax deductions. The reason he gave you just doesn’t make sense. No way could a market rent be more than the land tax.

No, they won’t! He said “excessive land tax”. Land tax is independent of any tenants. It is based on a) not a primary residence and b) land value. End of.

He probably decided to sell the property and move the proceeds to a higher yeilding asset.

Oh, and FWIW, negative gearing is nowhere near as effective as it was 20 years ago, due to changes in tax rates and rules on what can be claimed. Many property investors (including me) don’t select properties based on negative gearing effect.

colourful sydney racing identity11:39 am 04 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

I just want to make it perfectly clear I couldn’t afford a computer.

Is that why you were unable to respond to my question about what the police said when you reported all of that illegal activity?

I just want to make it perfectly clear I couldn’t afford a computer.

” Pussy. We didn’t have trains and busses in our day” Oh and farnarker it wasn’t that long ago. I couldn’t afford a computer. 😛

Pommy bastard9:37 am 04 Mar 11

farnarkler said :

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

No, probably not Babeeska would probably have too much dignity and want to work to earn enough to get out of that situation, as would most people with some self respect. What a stupid pointless thing to ask!

babeeshka said :

Thanks for ridiculing me for being brave enough to talk about my life in a seemingly vain effort to challenge the indoctrination that we seem to have in society that anyone who makes a go of their lives must be punished and anyone who puts out their hand must ergo be disadvantaged

Hear hear! Bravo, well said!!!

breda said :

beejay said:

They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.
——————————————————————
Yes, they will. If he is not earning any money from the property, he won’t be taxed.

Whatever the reason was for your eviction, that wasn’t it, though, unless you were being charged $50 a week rent. More likely he wants to redevelop the site, and didn’t want to spend money on maintenance in the meantime. Or, he was re-arranging his tax deductions. The reason he gave you just doesn’t make sense. No way could a market rent be more than the land tax.

No, they won’t! He said “excessive land tax”. Land tax is independent of any tenants. It is based on a) not a primary residence and b) land value. End of.

colourful sydney racing identity9:32 am 04 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Erg0 said :

I have to ask… why would you describe this deadbeat as your “friend”?

And why you would take her daughter out?

Let’s just say I’m a genuienly nice person worried about the fact that no matter how much $ is thrown at the mother her kids are still disdvantaged because you can’t do anything about the moral and intellectual poverty of the mother except maybe stop indulging her as a poor unfortunate.

Yes, you strike me as a genuinely nice person. In fact, when I read your posts it was my immediate thought.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Erg0 said :

I have to ask… why would you describe this deadbeat as your “friend”?

And why you would take her daughter out?

Let’s just say I’m a genuienly nice person worried about the fact that no matter how much $ is thrown at the mother her kids are still disdvantaged because you can’t do anything about the moral and intellectual poverty of the mother except maybe stop indulging her as a poor unfortunate.

Heavs said :

babeeshka said :

farnarkler said :

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

I remember when I was out of home living on $90 a week as a receptionist and putting myself through university I was told how “lucky” I was to go to university and how university students should pay more tax because they were all from “middle class backgrounds.” Ironically the ones on Austudy were all from wealthy bakgrounds and knew how to negotiate the system, At one stage I was living in a one bedroom unit with four people. I remember going out to dinner with my boyfriend for his friends birthday and ordering the spagetti bolegnaise to share with my boyfriend because it was the cheapest thing on the menu. When the decision was made to split the bill I cried for three days. This was easy because I was stuck at home unable to afford the bus and train fare to get in to university. Btw I achieved an honours degree in psychology including writing a 50,000 word thesis without even owning a computer.

Pussy. We didn’t have trains and busses in my day. I had to get to school on my own steam. The closest one was 14miles away. I had to get there and back every day. And I had no legs. I still remember crying for a week when, one day crawling the 14 mile into school on my knuckles, I got caught in a storm and turned up 30 minutes late and soaking wet. The teacher humiliated me in front of everyone so I wet (and ruined) my pants (i’d picked the cotton for them myself – particularly hard when you have no legs) and for that he belted me across the knuckles. Lucky for me all those years of crawling around to get to school had built my knuckles up and it didn’t hurt as much as it would have. I didn’t get no public transport so I think you should be thankful you got to catch a bus when you weren’t being profligate with your spaghetti dinners.

Thanks for ridiculing me for being brave enough to talk about my live in a seemingly vain effort to challenge the indoctrination that we seem to have in society that anyone who makes a go of their lives must be punished and anyone who puts out their hand must ergo be disadvantged

colourful sydney racing identity9:09 am 04 Mar 11

Erg0 said :

I have to ask… why would you describe this deadbeat as your “friend”?

And why you would take her daughter out?

Erg0 said :

I have to ask… why would you describe this deadbeat as your “friend”?

That’s why I used the inverted commas, it was meant ironically and I was trying to stay away from perjorative terms. I didn’t regard her as my friend but I did offer her friendship until one day she turned around and threw it back in my face becaue despite everything she is angry at her life and envious of mine

I have to ask… why would you describe this deadbeat as your “friend”?

farnarkler said :

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

Besides Farnarkler if you’d read my follow-up post you’d realise that I’m selling my home.

colourful sydney racing identity8:17 am 04 Mar 11

babeeshka said :

I don’t think it unreasonable to have a sense of entitlement that if you work and contribute to society that you will get some benefit for it. So yes, bd84 I would expect that after twenty years of working I do not just get the old housing that Housing discards that costs a lot to maintain and refurbish to pay increasingly higher taxes to put someone who has never worked and never intends to work into new public housing, which yes, she has been “given” effectively for life because her pension is also part of what the taxpayer picks up the bill for.

What is the incentive for young people to work and contribute to society when they are doing without, trying to sacrifice for the future when they see that all they have to do is fall pregnant while still a child and they will be given brand new luxury housing for life? For them, it would be like winning the lottery. If I have to spell the social implications out for you then we are in real trouble.

@Monty OK -what resale value? She will be in there her entire life. It is luxury housing. My friend herself admits to laughing when she got the keys and the first thing her partner did is take a dump in it. But it wasn’t long before she was asking for more. Her general attitude towards Housing is, “how DARE they treat us like this?” Sense of entitlement: OK- I would have thought plans for a large family completely on the public purse would have been enough but I’ll spell it out for you.
1. Entitlement to be supported by society because, “I am breeding the workers of the future.”
2. Entitlement to get moved to better housing because the environment was bad for her kids despite the fact her own partner is selling drugs and helping make it a crappy environment
3. Entitlement to write letters of complaint and threaten to sue Housing for not providing a stair rail on stairs enclosed down the side in said luxury housing
4. Entitlement that housing should fit the bill for a new fence to enclose her pitbulls so she can breed them unliscened. I notice those in private housing in the same group of houses are making do with what they have got
5. Entitlement to blame the school for punishing her child for punching another child, “because what was he meant to do? The kid called him a girl.”
6. Entitlement to threaten to sue school for her son still being violent despite a dedicated teachers aide being assigned to him because, “what the hell were they doing? They are f*** hopless. They’re being payed to look after my son. I’m being discriminated against cos I’m a young mum.”
7. Entitlement to drive drunk with her kids in the car.
8. Entitlement to sit around drinking and taking drugs playing “which genocide?” with her boyfriend. for those of you who don’t know it, it goes like this, “All those f*** people in china. what do we need those for? They should die” (As a result I cannot take her child into an Asian grocery store without his starting to abuse the stor owners)
9. Entitlement for her to use her pension card like a visa. For example, eight free visits to the chiropractor (well free for her, not society). Free vet bills cos the vet feels sorry for her.
10. Entitlement to tell me and a friend who is working two jobs that we better not ever complain about anything in our lives to her because we are lucky

Do I need to go on?

Well she must have come from a difficult background I hear you say? No. Middle class, white, no abuse.

Would you care to guess my background?

On the other side of the ledger I am being forced to sell my home because I can’t afford the taxes anymore. I will miss my beautiful home and my beautiful community and I will grieve for the fact that I have to rip my son from his school where he has made good friends. I don’t think its sensible for the ACT govt to tax people to the point that they are destroying their own revenue base.

I do not have a sense of entitlement. I just want a fair go.

I spent several months last year trying to “shower” under a garden tap pregnant in winter because we were trying to renovate our 1960 cupboard sized bathroom by ourselves while holding down to full-time jobs and looking after a child without any social support. If any bleeding hearts out there in my community who are so fond of the chronically unemployed and single mothers whose condoms keep breaking have genuine compassion and would like to help me out getting my house ready to sell – I would love to hear from you. I have been hit with life circumstance after life circumstance (you know the kind you can’t actually control) and quite frankly I’m not coping all that well

Right. So what did the police say when you contacted them about the illegal breeding of dogs and selling of drugs.

babeeshka said :

farnarkler said :

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

I remember when I was out of home living on $90 a week as a receptionist and putting myself through university I was told how “lucky” I was to go to university and how university students should pay more tax because they were all from “middle class backgrounds.” Ironically the ones on Austudy were all from wealthy bakgrounds and knew how to negotiate the system, At one stage I was living in a one bedroom unit with four people. I remember going out to dinner with my boyfriend for his friends birthday and ordering the spagetti bolegnaise to share with my boyfriend because it was the cheapest thing on the menu. When the decision was made to split the bill I cried for three days. This was easy because I was stuck at home unable to afford the bus and train fare to get in to university. Btw I achieved an honours degree in psychology including writing a 50,000 word thesis without even owning a computer.

Pussy. We didn’t have trains and busses in my day. I had to get to school on my own steam. The closest one was 14miles away. I had to get there and back every day. And I had no legs. I still remember crying for a week when, one day crawling the 14 mile into school on my knuckles, I got caught in a storm and turned up 30 minutes late and soaking wet. The teacher humiliated me in front of everyone so I wet (and ruined) my pants (i’d picked the cotton for them myself – particularly hard when you have no legs) and for that he belted me across the knuckles. Lucky for me all those years of crawling around to get to school had built my knuckles up and it didn’t hurt as much as it would have. I didn’t get no public transport so I think you should be thankful you got to catch a bus when you weren’t being profligate with your spaghetti dinners.

beejay76 said :

satansman said :

I was given notice to move out of my shared home in O’Connor last year because the landlord said he couldn’t afford to have anyone live there anylonger. It was a old property on a big piece of land and therefore attrracted excessive land tax.

“Excessive?” So this bloke who owns at least two properties and is very likely taking advantage of massive tax concessions through negative gearing, is moaning over having to pay some tax. Call the waaaaaambulance. If he didn’t want to pay tax he should have just sold it. No need to kick the tenants out! They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for landlords who moan about paying their taxes, as you can probably tell.

Sounds like another case of envy politics to me.

farnarkler said :

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

Hey are you going to wait for me to answer? I think some people have heir brains so wrapped in the”wooly cotton balls of infancy” that they are incapable of independent thought and believe that anyone who has achieved anything in life must be somehow “privledged,” and anyone who hasn’t has been hard done by.

I might swap my background for hers (she comes from a middle class background no abuse) but I’d lose all the lessons I’d learnt overcoming being brought up by a single mum after my father dropped dead when she was pregnant with me and overcoming sexual, physical and emotional abuse throughout my childhood to achieve something with my life.

I remember when I was out of home living on $90 a week as a receptionist and putting myself through university I was told how “lucky” I was to go to university and how university students should pay more tax because they were all from “middle class backgrounds.” Ironically the ones on Austudy were all from wealthy bakgrounds and knew how to negotiate the system, At one stage I was living in a one bedroom unit with four people. I remember going out to dinner with my boyfriend for his friends birthday and ordering the spagetti bolegnaise to share with my boyfriend because it was the cheapest thing on the menu. When the decision was made to split the bill I cried for three days. This was easy because I was stuck at home unable to afford the bus and train fare to get in to university. Btw I achieved an honours degree in psychology including writing a 50,000 word thesis without even owning a computer.

So yes, if I’d been given a 3 bedroom home at 19 I would have been pretty happy.

So Farnarkler I’d put up more about by current circumstances but I don’t trust the audience not to further ridicule me and make assumptions about my life. Certainly I don’t think getting told to “sick it up” would be at all helpful because I’ve been sucking it up all my life. My capacity to “suck it up” however has well and gruly been reached. Sorry -no more capacity.

Certainly when i was sitting at work crying with the pain of endometriosis but still working i might have been very tempted to turn back time and swap my life for a pension.

So tell me Farnarkler what do you think it is about the decision to put someone in luxury housing for life because they have one accident or life hiccup and then decide to live the rest of their lives contributing nothing to society that is a smart decision? (remember: my mother was a working single mum-go mum).

beejay said:

They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.
——————————————————————
Yes, they will. If he is not earning any money from the property, he won’t be taxed.

Whatever the reason was for your eviction, that wasn’t it, though, unless you were being charged $50 a week rent. More likely he wants to redevelop the site, and didn’t want to spend money on maintenance in the meantime. Or, he was re-arranging his tax deductions. The reason he gave you just doesn’t make sense. No way could a market rent be more than the land tax.

beejay76 said :

So this bloke who owns at least two properties and is very likely taking advantage of massive tax concessions through negative gearing, is moaning over having to pay some tax. Call the waaaaaambulance. If he didn’t want to pay tax he should have just sold it. No need to kick the tenants out! They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.

Contrary to popular opinion, your don’t actually make money from negative gearing, you just get to spend less of it. Most landlords would be lucky to break even on the rental income from tenants and are dependent on capital gains to make a return on their investment. In many cases it is more profitable to leave the house empty than to rent it out. There was a study in Melbourne late last year that identified that up to 20% of properties in decent suburbs were vacant (based on the water bills showing no water usage) even though the rental vacancy rate was less than 2%.

Clown Killer11:28 pm 03 Mar 11

Beejay, if he was ‘negative gearing’ the property then having no tennant may have been some advantage, but its unlikely to be sustainable. Then again moving to what is essentially a ‘land banking’ situation can work for some investors. Especially if you have a property with heritage issues that you need to strategically let run down to justify a knock down for safety reasons to free it up for units or other more rewarding development.

satansman said :

I was given notice to move out of my shared home in O’Connor last year because the landlord said he couldn’t afford to have anyone live there anylonger. It was a old property on a big piece of land and therefore attrracted excessive land tax.

“Excessive?” So this bloke who owns at least two properties and is very likely taking advantage of massive tax concessions through negative gearing, is moaning over having to pay some tax. Call the waaaaaambulance. If he didn’t want to pay tax he should have just sold it. No need to kick the tenants out! They aren’t going to stop taxing him just ‘coz there are no tenants.

I don’t have a lot of sympathy for landlords who moan about paying their taxes, as you can probably tell.

Tell me babeeshka, would you want to swap your life and your cupboard sized bathroom with a housing ACT tenant?

Didn’t think so.

I was given notice to move out of my shared home in O’Connor last year because the landlord said he couldn’t afford to have anyone live there anylonger. It was a old property on a big piece of land and therefore attrracted excessive land tax.

The 1.95 appropriations disguises the fact that with 10% public housing in the ACT those paying reasonable rents for it aren’t managing to support the rest who aren’t therefore its still costs 1.9%. If rents from housing weren’t being funneled back into the system they could be contributing to the schools, hospitals etc that the other 90% are paying for.

Leeches also use hospitals, schools, parks etc to which they are not contributing. They even require the trolley police-in fact may even be more likely to do so. Rather than a small insignificant problem I would say those with a bad attitude hanging off the public tit number in the thousands. They are actually leechion.

I don’t think it unreasonable to have a sense of entitlement that if you work and contribute to society that you will get some benefit for it. So yes, bd84 I would expect that after twenty years of working I do not just get the old housing that Housing discards that costs a lot to maintain and refurbish to pay increasingly higher taxes to put someone who has never worked and never intends to work into new public housing, which yes, she has been “given” effectively for life because her pension is also part of what the taxpayer picks up the bill for.

What is the incentive for young people to work and contribute to society when they are doing without, trying to sacrifice for the future when they see that all they have to do is fall pregnant while still a child and they will be given brand new luxury housing for life? For them, it would be like winning the lottery. If I have to spell the social implications out for you then we are in real trouble.

@Monty OK -what resale value? She will be in there her entire life. It is luxury housing. My friend herself admits to laughing when she got the keys and the first thing her partner did is take a dump in it. But it wasn’t long before she was asking for more. Her general attitude towards Housing is, “how DARE they treat us like this?” Sense of entitlement: OK- I would have thought plans for a large family completely on the public purse would have been enough but I’ll spell it out for you.
1. Entitlement to be supported by society because, “I am breeding the workers of the future.”
2. Entitlement to get moved to better housing because the environment was bad for her kids despite the fact her own partner is selling drugs and helping make it a crappy environment
3. Entitlement to write letters of complaint and threaten to sue Housing for not providing a stair rail on stairs enclosed down the side in said luxury housing
4. Entitlement that housing should fit the bill for a new fence to enclose her pitbulls so she can breed them unliscened. I notice those in private housing in the same group of houses are making do with what they have got
5. Entitlement to blame the school for punishing her child for punching another child, “because what was he meant to do? The kid called him a girl.”
6. Entitlement to threaten to sue school for her son still being violent despite a dedicated teachers aide being assigned to him because, “what the hell were they doing? They are f*** hopless. They’re being payed to look after my son. I’m being discriminated against cos I’m a young mum.”
7. Entitlement to drive drunk with her kids in the car.
8. Entitlement to sit around drinking and taking drugs playing “which genocide?” with her boyfriend. for those of you who don’t know it, it goes like this, “All those f*** people in china. what do we need those for? They should die” (As a result I cannot take her child into an Asian grocery store without his starting to abuse the stor owners)
9. Entitlement for her to use her pension card like a visa. For example, eight free visits to the chiropractor (well free for her, not society). Free vet bills cos the vet feels sorry for her.
10. Entitlement to tell me and a friend who is working two jobs that we better not ever complain about anything in our lives to her because we are lucky

Do I need to go on?

Well she must have come from a difficult background I hear you say? No. Middle class, white, no abuse.

Would you care to guess my background?

On the other side of the ledger I am being forced to sell my home because I can’t afford the taxes anymore. I will miss my beautiful home and my beautiful community and I will grieve for the fact that I have to rip my son from his school where he has made good friends. I don’t think its sensible for the ACT govt to tax people to the point that they are destroying their own revenue base.

I do not have a sense of entitlement. I just want a fair go.

I spent several months last year trying to “shower” under a garden tap pregnant in winter because we were trying to renovate our 1960 cupboard sized bathroom by ourselves while holding down to full-time jobs and looking after a child without any social support. If any bleeding hearts out there in my community who are so fond of the chronically unemployed and single mothers whose condoms keep breaking have genuine compassion and would like to help me out getting my house ready to sell – I would love to hear from you. I have been hit with life circumstance after life circumstance (you know the kind you can’t actually control) and quite frankly I’m not coping all that well

Captain RAAF2:08 pm 02 Mar 11

georgesgenitals said :

Don’t you mean shopping trolley police?

Yes! Did someone call?

cleo said :

Sounds like sour grapes to me, SUCK IT UP!

geez, Cleo – tell me you’re baiting everyone again, right???

breda said :

The trouble with public housing as it is currently set up is that it is often a poverty trap. 25% of the income of a long term social security recipient (such as someone on a sole parent pension) is so far removed from the real market price that it is a strong disincentive to leave if it can be avoided.

+1

Exacerbated by a housing affordability crisis.

While we are at it, could we stop government money being spent on regulating mortgages and interfering in the free markets. How about all the money spent on idiots that make a poor life choice and purchase house’s in flood plains. Also handouts to industries drunk on their own importance. How about all the money spent on treating self induced sporting injuries in our hospitals. Our tax’s are supporting a whole lot of self interest groups ripping off the public purse. Enough of the hand outs to the useless and stupid. I deserve to pay less tax and make more money.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, SUCK IT UP!

What a utterly rediculous post. I’m not even sure what you’re complaining about, if it’s because the tenant has been placed in a newish house? that it’s because she’s a single mother with bum of a boyfriend? or that you’re jealous that their house is better than yours?

Old properties cost a lot to maintain or refurbish, Housing progressively sell the old and buy more modern properties. Yes, the new properties will be nicer and have more bathrooms, you will find that a lot of townhouses built in the 90s also have 3 toilets, not just new ones. I believe that Housing’s placement of tenants are based on the needs of the tenants (i.e. size of the house compared to occupancy and location to work/school etc of the teant), not because they look at them and judge them to be a bum who will never get of benefits and therefore don’t like them. If they did that, there would be very few tenants and a lot of people living on park benches.

Quote: “This is not meant to be a general judgement on public housing or those in public housing but to provide a personal specific example of what has occured in the ACT on our watch”

We are on a watch?

Who’s watching right now? When is it my turn? Is there a roster somewhere?

Can I ask for this weekend off? I have already made plans and I honestly didn’t know I was on watch.

The appropriations are only a fraction of what public housing costs ratepayers. The real killer is the opportunity cost. If we own an asset which could be returning $350 a week in rent, but we are only getting $100, that’s $250 a week ($12,500 a year) for a start. Throw in free maintenance, and no rate revenue for that property, and you could safely say $15,000. Then add valuable but run down inner city properties which a private owner would redevelop for a higher return, and it is more still.

In 2003, there were 11,400 public housing units in the ACT, which then represented 9.5% of the housing stock. If the opportunity cost is only $10,000 per unit per year (which is very conservative indeed), that’s $1.14 billion a year in foregone income. On today’s numbers, it would be considerably more.

http://www.dhcs.act.gov.au/__data/assets/word…/AssetManagement.doc

The budget appropriation is the tip of the iceberg.

Pommy bastard5:21 pm 01 Mar 11

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Should make them sleep in parks should they?

Who is this “them” of whom you speak?

neanderthalsis5:09 pm 01 Mar 11

jsm2090 said :

Of course people have a right to housing, but not at any cost. The system in place needs to be reviewed.

IMHO people who make no effort to make a productive contribution to society should not derive any benefit from the community. I am sick of hearing this nonsense about a hand up, not a hand out when there is blatant abuse in the system. We should just harvest their organs and feed the rest of the carcass to the buzzards.

georgesgenitals4:51 pm 01 Mar 11

p1 said :

Erg0 said :

I looked into it, and it turns out that my taxes are all spent on street lighting and public parks. I feel sorry for the people that have had their taxes earmarked for the “bludging housing public tenants” budget.

Best post ever. How do I get my taxes assigned to pothole repair and shopping trolley inspectors?

Don’t you mean shopping trolley police?

shadow boxer said :

That seems to cover the essentials, where does the other 33% go ?

Enjoy, table starts on Page 6

shadow boxer said :

That seems to cover the essentials, where does the other 33% go ?

Hookers and blow.

shadow boxer4:17 pm 01 Mar 11

That seems to cover the essentials, where does the other 33% go ?

breda said :

The traditional right to stay in the residence in perpetuity is another issue. Who can forget the highly paid MLA sitting in an old public house in ritzy Yarralumla, paying a ‘market rent’ based on the age and dilapidation of the house rather than the market value of the land, and legally entitled to continue for ever? She eventually was forced by public opprobrium to move, but there are many like her who recognise that they would be mad to enter the real market when they are on such a good thing, even if they are now paying something approaching a market rent.

That is why although the ACT has one of the (if not the) highest proportions of public housing of any jurisdiction, as well as the highest incomes, so many truly needy people are on waiting lists for years.

No argument with that. Wish there was a reliable statistic though on what proportion of housing is abused in this fashion.

Erg0 said :

I looked into it, and it turns out that my taxes are all spent on street lighting and public parks. I feel sorry for the people that have had their taxes earmarked for the “bludging housing public tenants” budget.

Ditto Erg0.

At 1.9% of 2010-2011 ACT Budget appropriations, housing ain’t the biggest sinkhole for my taxes.

* 23.9% Education and Training
* 14.5% TAMS (Hello streetlights! Hello lawnmowers in the Park!)
* 25.6% Health & Hospitals

Erg0 said :

I looked into it, and it turns out that my taxes are all spent on street lighting and public parks. I feel sorry for the people that have had their taxes earmarked for the “bludging housing public tenants” budget.

Best post ever. How do I get my taxes assigned to pothole repair and shopping trolley inspectors?

The trouble with public housing as it is currently set up is that it is often a poverty trap. 25% of the income of a long term social security recipient (such as someone on a sole parent pension) is so far removed from the real market price that it is a strong disincentive to leave if it can be avoided.

The traditional right to stay in the residence in perpetuity is another issue. Who can forget the highly paid MLA sitting in an old public house in ritzy Yarralumla, paying a ‘market rent’ based on the age and dilapidation of the house rather than the market value of the land, and legally entitled to continue for ever? She eventually was forced by public opprobrium to move, but there are many like her who recognise that they would be mad to enter the real market when they are on such a good thing, even if they are now paying something approaching a market rent.

That is why although the ACT has one of the (if not the) highest proportions of public housing of any jurisdiction, as well as the highest incomes, so many truly needy people are on waiting lists for years.

colourful sydney racing identity2:57 pm 01 Mar 11

Pommy bastard said :

You think it’s bad here, you should see the state of play in the UK.

Should make them sleep in parks should they?

What Mothy said.

Pommy bastard2:52 pm 01 Mar 11

You think it’s bad here, you should see the state of play in the UK.

Can’t help but want to pull out a lot of the adjectives that the Real Estate agent has put in there;

townhouse
energy efficient
three bedroom, ensuite residence
North facing to the rear
separate living areas
kitchen with stone bench tops
built in robes
master w balcony and ensuite w double size shower
tiling, carpets, double garage with remote door
outdoor area
Walk to schools, shops, transport

Right, so we’ve established that its a townhouse then. And its newish. On that front, can you see the logic in DHCS including in their portfolio of properties under management a range of new and old properties – since doing so means that over the long term the replacement of their available housing stock can be smoothed out, and maintenance costs are kept at a manageable level (assuming newer properties need less maintenance than old)?

On your “three places to go to the toilet” piece, lets just accept that a recently built property is going to have more than one WC in it, and also accept that housing are not custom building “one toilet” properties, just buying (or part funding the construction of) available stock. So that it has resale value, it makes sense to buy what exists.

On the property being “given” to her, please note Tenants of Housing ACT pay either a maximum of 25% of their income in rent, or the market rent, which ever is lower.

On the “sense of entitlement” – please expand on where this comes from, because on the information currently provided, it simply seems you are projecting onto the tenant something you have yourself – you feel entitled to judge how she came to be in the circumstances that qualified her for the housing placement, entitled to decide what is proportional, entitled to pay less tax, and indignant that she, not you, is entitled to multiple locales in which to place her leavings.

I looked into it, and it turns out that my taxes are all spent on street lighting and public parks. I feel sorry for the people that have had their taxes earmarked for the “bludging housing public tenants” budget.

We live in a development in Braddon, and have had to deal with a similar situation where the dregs of society are given free reign of a newish property to take drugs, drink, dump rubbish in communal areas, do burnouts and generally trash the place while deserving DHCS tennants patiently wait in the queue. Of course people have a right to housing, but not at any cost. The system in place needs to be reviewed.

It’s ridiculous, I have a cousin who has got 2 kids with a 19 year old girl, he hasn’t worked in years, and she hasn’t ever worked.

All they do is sit at home taking drugs and drinking, and everything is handed to them. I have family that’s leeching it, so I understand just how bullsh!t it is that they get all this at our expense.

And yeah, they feel they deserve more.

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