24 April 2013

The Great Civic 40 Zone unveiled!

| johnboy
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Shane Rattenbury has announced the works he’s been up to rolling out expanded 40 zones in the town centres:

Work to improve safety in the Belconnen, Civic and Tuggeranong town centres has started as the Government moves to introduc 40 kilometre per hour speed limit precincts, Minister for introduce Territory and Municipal Services, Shane Rattenbury, announced today.

“Following community and stakeholder consultation and success of reduced speed limits in Gungahlin and Woden, 40 km/h areas will be introduced in the Belconnen, Civic and introduced Tuggeranong town centres,” Mr Rattenbury said.

“Research indicates that a 40 km/h speed area can significantly reduce the risk of death for pedestrians and cyclists if there is a collision. For example, a 10 km/h decrease in speed from 50 km/h to 40 km/h can reduce the risk of death by over 50 percent.

“Slower speed environments are an important part of making our town centres safe for safer everyone to walk and cycle, and will have a minimal impact on drivers.

“At the same time they will encourage more people to walk and cycle which will help make me Canberra a more sustainable and active city.

“We’ve identified precincts in each of these three town centres where there is a high level of pedestrian movement and a minimum of 400 metres of retail and commercial development.

“This week, work will commence in these precincts to install traffic calming devices, such as speed cushions, in preparation for the reduced speed limit.”

speed zone speed zones

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fromthecapital said :

Masquara said :

I drove across Shane Rattenbury’s two speed bumps in Akuna Street today. They are ridiculous – it’s a short bit of road, and I’ve never seen anyone speeding in it.

I’m not surprised… speed humps will prevent you from escaping cyclists brandishing pitchforks.

I work near there and motorists sometimes run the red if they are unfamiliar with the road. The risk is they could easily kill a pedestrian,

There are MANY streets in suburbia that need speed bumps far more urgently than these. What do they cost the ratepayer? I think this is just posturing.

fromthecapital11:56 pm 03 May 13

Masquara said :

I drove across Shane Rattenbury’s two speed bumps in Akuna Street today. They are ridiculous – it’s a short bit of road, and I’ve never seen anyone speeding in it.

I’m not surprised… speed humps will prevent you from escaping cyclists brandishing pitchforks.

I work near there and motorists sometimes run the red if they are unfamiliar with the road. The risk is they could easily kill a pedestrian,

Masquara said :

I drove across Shane Rattenbury’s two speed bumps in Akuna Street today. They are ridiculous – it’s a short bit of road, and I’ve never seen anyone speeding in it.

They put some speed cushions in on Reed St between Homeworld and the Hyperdome earlier in the week. Must say I think they are well placed – between the two Homeworld carpark entry/exit points. It slows the cars travelling towards Athllon down, allowing cars to get in and out of both the Hyperdome and Homeworld carparks a little more easily.

Looked like they were also about to lay some on Pitman St after the interchange exit, just before the entry to the old Markets carpark. Not sure if they’re really necessary there. Can’t think there’d be any significant pedestrian traffic there – given most would just cross at the lights at the top of the interchange.

gooterz said :

AAMI says that 59% of drivers admit to Carelessness and Distraction/Loss of concentration.

http://www.aami.com.au/sites/default/files/fm/news/accident-hot-spot-act.pdf

How are 40km/h limits going to improve attention and concentration?

As far as I can tell the top five hotspots linked by you are mostly 80 zones.

To quote your source:
Each of the crash hot spots in ACT that AAMI has identified are both high-traffic and have relatively high speed limits.

Shouldn’t 40 or even 50 and 60 zones be occupying the top 5 hotspots according to your theory?

And seeing how empirical evidence is allowed, I drive Monaro Highway daily and have yet to see a rear-ender near the speed cameras I pass. I don’t see regular heavy braking.

I drove across Shane Rattenbury’s two speed bumps in Akuna Street today. They are ridiculous – it’s a short bit of road, and I’ve never seen anyone speeding in it.

Ben_Dover said :

Do you have any views on the topic being discussed Jim?

I’m here primarily to poke fun at the idea that ‘slowing down will cause accidents because people will be bored and distracted’.

The ‘speed cameras cause accidents’ thing is pretty funny too.

The operating assumption seems to be that, if you try to limit anyone’s speed in any way, they’ll freak out and have an accident, which doesn’t leave one with much confidence in the basic competence of anyone on the roads.

The idea of traffic free zones in cities is personally appealing, but pragmatically difficult to institute. I’m not a big fan of the speed cushions, but to tell the truth, it’s hard to see how you’d slow people down any other way (even with speed cushions a certain amount of people will fang it).

The underlying cultural addiction to going as fast as we possibly can all the time is probably what needs to be addressed, and it’s precisely the reason why people propose such ludicrous arguments as the hoax ‘research’ cited by gooterz.

AAMI says that 59% of drivers admit to Carelessness and Distraction/Loss of concentration.

http://www.aami.com.au/sites/default/files/fm/news/accident-hot-spot-act.pdf

How are 40km/h limits going to improve attention and concentration?

Postalgeek said :

gooterz said :

I would argue that their slow speed and attention to the speed cushions caused inattention, as it was reaction time rather than speed that prevented the accident.

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

So do these stats you are citing indicate whether these people braking for speed cameras are going the speed limit, or whether they are going faster than the speed limit?

And is 100kmph too slow to notice a speed camera,
or anything for that matter? I am loving your rationale. Please continue.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3760348.html

People break and slow down even when doing 90 in a 100 zone around a speed camera.
This is evident to anyone who has ever travelled the Tuggeranong parkway in the last 5 years.
There was always a number of cars parked under the cotter road overpass giving each other driver details. Too many focused on their speed rather than what the other cars were doing.

Already in the main centres I’ve seen a number of cars line up with the bumps so their car goes over the edges, this means that serious time is taken from them looking around the road for pedestrians and other dangers

The timed camera’s are even worse. People constantly and unnecessarily breaking.
99.9% of people don’t speed though speed camera zones, yet how many are pulled up by undercover cops speeding elsewhere?

Speed cameras only catch the stupid, and fine them, but over time even those stupid wise up. The number of people caught by the camera’s drops over time. So they become more cost with little revenue.

Anyone who has any history of Canberra will realise that all the group centres used to have many more roads than they do now. Over time they had been closed off and opened to pedestrians alone.

Since the Canberra centre redevelopment they’ve made the roads stay open.

Woolley street
Anketell street
Bunda/Alinga Street
Benjamin way
Should all be closed or partially closed to most traffic, and made into malls.

For those that insist on asking me for stats etc.. Where has the government provided theirs?

Jim Jones said :

Keijidosha said :

gooterz said :

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

[citation needed]

It’s probably the same *cough* “study” that he was citing earlier … you know, the one that was actually a hoax … that he took seriously.

Actually, the comment makes complete sense. If you ‘break’ for a speed camera, then the mere act of breaking means you have had an accident. QED

Do you have any views on the topic being discussed Jim?

Keijidosha said :

gooterz said :

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

[citation needed]

It’s probably the same *cough* “study” that he was citing earlier … you know, the one that was actually a hoax … that he took seriously.

Keijidosha said :

gooterz said :

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

[citation needed]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1300830/Speed-cameras-caused-28-000-accidents-decade.html

gooterz said :

I would argue that their slow speed and attention to the speed cushions caused inattention, as it was reaction time rather than speed that prevented the accident.

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

So do these stats you are citing indicate whether these people braking for speed cameras are going the speed limit, or whether they are going faster than the speed limit?

And is 100kmph too slow to notice a speed camera,
or anything for that matter? I am loving your rationale. Please continue.

gooterz said :

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

[citation needed]

Keijidosha said :

Rollersk8r said :

Speed cushions were installed yesterday on Akuna Street. Classic case of spending money on a problem that doesn’t exist.

I would have agreed with this comment prior to this morning, when some dope in an SUV heading west on Akuna Street failed to recognise a red light at the pedestrian crossing. Because they’d just negotiated the speed cushions they managed to pull up just short of disaster. If they’d been cruising along at 60 it probably would have been a very different story.

I would argue that their slow speed and attention to the speed cushions caused inattention, as it was reaction time rather than speed that prevented the accident.

The same can be said for the large number of accidents that are caused by people breaking for speed cameras.

I’m sure suspension companies are going to love the increased trade.

It could also be the lousy euro style traffic lights which are more difficult to read without the contrasting black border. If we are all about safety why install a completely different nonstandard traffic signal. Are they even legal in Australia?

Rollersk8r said :

Speed cushions were installed yesterday on Akuna Street. Classic case of spending money on a problem that doesn’t exist.

I would have agreed with this comment prior to this morning, when some dope in an SUV heading west on Akuna Street failed to recognise a red light at the pedestrian crossing. Because they’d just negotiated the speed cushions they managed to pull up just short of disaster. If they’d been cruising along at 60 it probably would have been a very different story.

Speed cushions were installed yesterday on Akuna Street. Classic case of spending money on a problem that doesn’t exist. Funny thing is they’ll probably cause cycling accidents.

La_Tour_Maubourg9:27 pm 25 Apr 13

I knew once Rattenbury was elected as chief of TAMS the city would fall into further decline.
If Belconnen Town Centre must have speed limits reduced to 40km/h – scrap the speed “cushions” (or make them small enough to drive over and not actually make contact) and make the Community Bus Interchange open to through traffic after the last bus service and before the first morning service.

gooterz said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

You got any sources there, bud?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/HRAR_REPORT243.pdf
a study in Adelaide found that one-third of pedestrian fatalities would most likely
have survived if vehicles had been travelling only 5 km/h faster – and one in ten pedestrians
would not have been hit at all.

Did you have a look at the acknowledgements? Names like Quentin Skoda,Tiff Hummer,Professor William Wagon, Professor Alex Lotus, Brian Vitara,Gary Benz,Grant Dodge,Gary Alpha and Professor James Romeo! 🙂

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/HRAR_REPORT243.pdf
a study in Adelaide found that one-third of pedestrian fatalities would most likely
have survived if vehicles had been travelling only 5 km/h faster – and one in ten pedestrians
would not have been hit at all.

Research Team
Jeremy James
Clark Hammond
Richard Mayson

Enuf said there about the quality of that research.

Masquara said :

DrKoresh said :

if we here on the RA decided to play Spot the Loony, it would be you and only you.

Like I said, 666 announcer and two callers raised the topics – interesting that feathers are so ardently ruffled in defence of Mr Rattenbury. Perhaps there’s some sensitivity around a Green being reported as sounding quite inured around a disabled issue. At least he clearly isn’t practised at spin – more experienced politicians with more of a behemoth party machine behind them might have been equally uncaring – but would have answered very differently. But the Greens do set themselves apart in their rhetoric and it’s only fair to call them when they appear to fall short.

The government can’t cater to each and every person’s particular unusual circumstances. To condemn a minister for pointing this out in slightly different words is just playing the populism game. The greater good is how policies need to be determined, not trying to find ways that everyone wins and no one loses.

kean van choc6:14 pm 25 Apr 13

If you’re interested in the peer review of that ‘research’: http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/speed-scammers-stir-up-media-storm-20110209-1amaf.html

gooterz said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

You got any sources there, bud?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/HRAR_REPORT243.pdf
a study in Adelaide found that one-third of pedestrian fatalities would most likely
have survived if vehicles had been travelling only 5 km/h faster – and one in ten pedestrians
would not have been hit at all.

Utter nonsense. There are hundreds of peer reviewed scientific research that says the opposite.

For example, “Nevertheless, a strong dependence on impact speed is found, with the fatality risk at 50 km/h being more than twice as high as the risk at 40 km/h and more than five times higher than the risk at 30 km/h. Our findings should have important implications for the development of pedestrian accident countermeasures worldwide.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457509000323

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15389580210517

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.93.9.1541

Just slow down and see if we can save a life or two.

@ gooterz

The point you make that one is more alert when driving at a faster speed is something i’ve experienced and been aware of for decades.A classic example is when one is driving at maximum speed on a racetrack or even,dare i say it,on windy country roads for one’s heart rate is highly elevated and reflexes are in overdrive.

The main problem we’ve got in our society is quite simply that most people who possess licences are very ordinary behind the wheel.If we issued licences only to those with highly developed driving skills the roads would be mostly deserted.As for reducing speed in high traffic and pedestrian areas i guess it’s only reasonable given the high number of very average drivers out there who will never be able to achieve the high standard that is required to save lives.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd5:21 pm 25 Apr 13

gooterz said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

You got any sources there, bud?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/HRAR_REPORT243.pdf
a study in Adelaide found that one-third of pedestrian fatalities would most likely
have survived if vehicles had been travelling only 5 km/h faster – and one in ten pedestrians
would not have been hit at all.

Can you post a link to to the peer reviewed article this was originally in?

DrKoresh said :

if we here on the RA decided to play Spot the Loony, it would be you and only you.

Like I said, 666 announcer and two callers raised the topics – interesting that feathers are so ardently ruffled in defence of Mr Rattenbury. Perhaps there’s some sensitivity around a Green being reported as sounding quite inured around a disabled issue. At least he clearly isn’t practised at spin – more experienced politicians with more of a behemoth party machine behind them might have been equally uncaring – but would have answered very differently. But the Greens do set themselves apart in their rhetoric and it’s only fair to call them when they appear to fall short.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

gooterz said :

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

You got any sources there, bud?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/HRAR_REPORT243.pdf
a study in Adelaide found that one-third of pedestrian fatalities would most likely
have survived if vehicles had been travelling only 5 km/h faster – and one in ten pedestrians
would not have been hit at all.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd3:12 pm 25 Apr 13

gooterz said :

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

You got any sources there, bud?

Deckard said :

just sounds like you’re having a go at the mayor just for the sake of it.

Well that’d be the 666 announcer and two callers (neither of them me) “having a go just for the sake of it” then.

Let’s check the personalities at the door people

Deckard said :

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

Is that you shane?

I thought it was quite obvious to the great unwashed that when the average person is travelling at 40km/h they are probably going to be doing other things than concentrating on the road (adjusting the radio talking to passengers etc.) When travelling at such slow speeds reaction time decreases dramatically.

So in the end.. you have

someone travelling at 60km/h which will probably see a pedestrian and break sooner so by the time they hit them they could be doing about anything between 0-60km/h

vs

Someone travelling at 40km/h and hitting someone at 40km/h though inattention or the pedestrian trying to beat the slow moving car, then getting clipped.

At the rate this government is going most of the speed camera’s will be converted into toll cameras.

How many accidents are caused by the government developing over all the carparks and forcing drivers to walk for several blocks to reach where they want to go?

I’m sure a larger number of Canberra people would support blocking off key roads rather than slowing the traffic to each towncentre.

Masquara said :

Deckard said :

I think Gungahlin Al hit the nail on the head.

I think a NSW Right bovver boy attitude has infiltrated Getup – howzabout some substance and a defence – if you would care to – of Rattenbury’s 1984-speak, disdain for the disabled, and light touch on cyclists’ responsibilities?

Just because you’ve decided some turn of phrase or other is “Orwellian” does not mean we’re living in a totalitarian dictatorship, the very fact you’re suggesting as such on a public forum is proof of that. You can harp on about what you supposedly heard Rattenbury say about disabled people on the radio but be honest, if you weren’t looking for any bit of flak you could possibly find to chuck at him, you wouldn’t give a flying feck.

You invent these ‘issues’ out of the most inconsequential and mundane trivialities and then attempt make unfathomable and ludicrously tenuous links to how this all the fault of Left-wing governments. You conveniently ignore any gaffs made by Right-wing politicians and whenever somebody tries to counter your frankly insane theories you either ignore them, side-step any relevant points or you deliberately misread, misrepresent and misinterpret the body of the argument, as evidenced in the “Why We Can’t Have Nice Things” thread where you accused Al’s responses as being “unhinged”.

All I’m saying Masquara, is that if we here on the RA decided to play Spot the Loony, it would be you and only you.

Deckard said :

1. They are traffic cushions. They’re bolted to the road and can be moved. Speed humps are bolted down.

Sorry, that should be speed humps are concreted in.

Masquara said :

Deckard said :

I think Gungahlin Al hit the nail on the head.

I think a NSW Right bovver boy attitude has infiltrated Getup – howzabout some substance and a defence – if you would care to – of Rattenbury’s 1984-speak, disdain for the disabled, and light touch on cyclists’ responsibilities?

No Getup around here mate, just sounds like you’re having a go at the mayor just for the sake of it.

1. They are traffic cushions. They’re bolted to the road and can be moved. Speed humps are bolted down.

2. What’s he meant to say? ‘OK we’ll take them away then.’? ‘Tough luck?’ ‘Ok we’ll build a special road for people with bad backs’?

3. Didn’t hear his actual comment and given your prejudice against cyclists in previous threads who knows what he really said.

If it was a Liberal mayor putting this up, as both parties pretty much come up with the same ideas, I’m sure you’d be defending what a great idea it is and calling the person complaining about their back some kind of nimby.

Deckard said :

I think Gungahlin Al hit the nail on the head.

I think a NSW Right bovver boy attitude has infiltrated Getup – howzabout some substance and a defence – if you would care to – of Rattenbury’s 1984-speak, disdain for the disabled, and light touch on cyclists’ responsibilities?

Masquara said :

Shane Rattenbury gave some pretty lame responses in an interview on 666 yesterday.

1. He referred to speed bumps as “traffic cushions” even after being called on that Orwellian language by I think Ross Solly.

2. When a caller whose partner has a spine injury that means speed bumps cause her great pain, Rattenbury’s solution was that she should take a different route – no interest whatsoever in investigating whether these speed bumps are in places too harsh for the context.

3. When Rattenbury was asked what he thought of cyclists breaking the road rules, his only suggestion was that cyclists “tinkle their bells more often around pedestrians”.

I agree with Rioters who are bemused that this ideologue has been put in charge of our road conditions and experience.

I think Gungahlin Al hit the nail on the head.

Shane Rattenbury gave some pretty lame responses in an interview on 666 yesterday.

1. He referred to speed bumps as “traffic cushions” even after being called on that Orwellian language by I think Ross Solly.

2. When a caller whose partner has a spine injury that means speed bumps cause her great pain, Rattenbury’s solution was that she should take a different route – no interest whatsoever in investigating whether these speed bumps are in places too harsh for the context.

3. When Rattenbury was asked what he thought of cyclists breaking the road rules, his only suggestion was that cyclists “tinkle their bells more often around pedestrians”.

I agree with Rioters who are bemused that this ideologue has been put in charge of our road conditions and experience.

gooterz said :

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60.

When you say people you mean you right?

Sorry I couldn’t be bothered reading the rest of your bulls*** after that.

gooterz said :

Having random and idealistic 40 km speed zones show the complete lack of contempt for the Canberra community.

And there was me thinking you were arguing against 40km zones.

People pay less attention while driving at 40 than 50 and a hell of a lot less attention than when driving at 60. Pedestrians will try to chance it more as the cars are moving slower they might be able to beat it.

Driving at 40 also means there is more traffic around and thus all these things mean that collisions will increase. Anyone who thinks that large hunks of metal with engines and people should co habitat a road should be thrown out off office.

In everyone of these places there are ways for pedestrians to safely cross a road. Traffic lights and crossings, lowing the speed limits does nothing to affect a stationary car waiting at the lights.

Whats more likely that shane is trying to force people out of cars. Instead of being a reasonable government and offering a decent alternative, they’re using bully like school yard tactics to make it hard for regular people to do regular things in hope that a small percentage of them will start catching a bus.

Canberra knows that most accidents happen with illegal drivers, yet will do nothing to curb unlicensed drivers from the roads. Nothing is done to increase the penalties. Most accidents occur when the driver isn’t driving to the conditions/speed limit.

Case in point was the GDE a road designed to be 90 yet the limit was 80. Most drivers ignored the limit and thus are now much more likely to hold contempt with speed limits. Most construction/roadwork traffic is similar. If there is no read reason for it, then the driver stops paint attention to it and drives how they think they should. The result is many Canberra drivers don’t respect the completely artificial speed limits in Canberra.

Having random and idealistic 40 km speed zones show the complete lack of contempt for the Canberra community. Instead of investing in ways to improve access they are just taking the most affordable solution that makes them appear to be trying. While no evidence or scientific method is used nor are the alternatives discussed.

One only has to note the 20km /h limit for the buslanes in Belconnen to realise that 40 is just the start.

Another waste of taxpayer $ that could go to schools, mental health, public transport etc.

For civic and Belco, you can’t get to 40km in most of these areas anyway. As a result, the speed humps are totally unnecessary and therefore a waste of money. I am unsure about Tuggeranong as I think I’ve been there about 3 times in my life.

Are there statistics available (either official or unofficial) that show how many accidents/injuries.deaths have occurred in these specific areas over the last decade? I really want to know what problem (if any) the government is trying to fix.

I am a pedestrian and have never even come close to being hit by a car in Belconnen or Civic (had a couple of close shaves in Dickson but I was at fault). There are plenty of pedestrian crossings around and there are already too many traffic lights. Canberra is becoming too pedestrian friendly.

I don’t drive. I don’t cycle. I rely on public transport and foot to get around Canberra. Seriously if there really is that much pedestrian traffic, build a pedestrian overpass/underpass. The money you save on these pointless speed limits can help fund plus you will be accommodating for future population growth.

End rant

poptop said :

Re Tuggeranong – I am delighted at the new 40km envelope. It has cunningly excluded the roads that
– Lake Tuggeranong students,
– FaHCSIA staff,
– people exiting the Vikings or Southern Cross Club, and
– befuddled tourists searching for coffee
need to cross in order to access the Hyperdome.

Anyone that can achieve a decent speed in the block immediately surrounding the Hyperdome is doing something wrong – or possibly right.

If they want to save people from vehicle based death around the Hyperdome, they would do a lot better removing the covered cafe seating that blocks visibility at the pedestrian crossing at the main entrance (or put in some mechanism to prevent the nimbler pedestrians from bounding out from behind those structures).

There are tourists in Tuggeranong? They must be very befuddled…

IP

Make that Benjamin Way… *facepalm*

If my eyes aren’t deceiving me, there seems to be a hint of a pedestrian overpass across Belconnen Way between the mall and the Bus Interchange… now that seems like a fantastic idea. An easy, safe and weatherproof way for pedestrians to cross a busy road… why didn’t someone think of that before? I also love the fact that they look to be introducing some much needed cover along the length of the bus interchange. Both of these wonderful initiatives would remove the need for the mad dash to the bus stop from the mall when the weather is bad.

They’re are going about it all wrong. They need to have incentives for people to stop using cars all together, put some electric or maglev trams through these areas and build better infrastructure. Less cars, less road maintenance, more people will feel comfortable to use these areas. No more speed cushions, they are a band-aid fix. The government needs to put REAL money instead of always taking the cheap and easy way out.

I’m sure Mayor Ratt would be only too pleased to produce the results of the Police speed radar monitoring the traffic on Bundah St., Ankatell St and Benjamin Way (within his new speed limit zone).

I contend it is almost impossible to exceed 40K’s at anytime short of midnight on any of these streets.

So why come out with this feelgood policy?

Oh, he’s a politician. Silly of me.

Now that they’re reducing the speed, is there any chance of at least one or two of the (relatively new) traffic lights being turned into round abouts?

I also agree Emu Bank is dangerous given the poor visibility for pedestrians, yet it wasn’t in the initial scope for consideration! Unfortunate.

I agree that Emu Bank needs to be a lot safer for pedestrians. There is one pedestrian crossing near the l;lighthouse, there should probably be another at the end near the Arts Centre (although there is a set of traffic lights there).

I used to be green but now I’ve gone really brown

I very happy for the streets I walk on each work day to have a slower speed limit. 60km/h is way too fast for pedestrian areas. I’m disappointed that the streets adjoining lake Ginnenderra are not included in the 40km/h zone. Nor the streets outside the Labor club, Ginnenderra College or CISAC. Still, it’s a good start.

dtc said :

Does anyone lese see this as part of a Rattenbury plan to one day completely ban motor vehicles from city centres?

Marcus Clarke Street?

Anyway, the time difference between driving the entire length of MC St at 50km/h (with no traffic lights stopping you) and doing it at 40km/h is….18 seconds. Its hardly going to ruin your day

Yep – frankly, I can’t understand any of the frustrations with some of these proposals. Every major city limits cars and their speed in their CBD’s given the number of pedestrian traffic. I can’t think of one that doesn’t. It’s just basic road safety.

Delete London Circuit, Marcus Clarke St and Benjamin Way from the 40km/h zones and you would have a more reasonable proposal. Either that or not have the zones 24 hours per day.

Encourages cycling because… you’re slightly safer once you arrive at a town centre?? Whatever.

Forget the 40 zone in Civic. Just close Bunda Street to cars. Simple.

Does anyone lese see this as part of a Rattenbury plan to one day completely ban motor vehicles from city centres?

Marcus Clarke Street?

There are a lot of people that use/cross/walk up and down (and ride up and down) Marcus Clarke st now. With the development on the west side of the street (including uni lodge etc) and the newish offices down the lake end, its definitely part of the ‘city centre’ in terms of usage/population.

Anyway, the time difference between driving the entire length of MC St at 50km/h (with no traffic lights stopping you) and doing it at 40km/h is….18 seconds. Its hardly going to ruin your day

What are they doing to Childers St now that all the construction is finished – back to shared zone or 20km/h or what?

….moves to introduc 40 kilometre per hour speed limit precincts, Minister for introduce Territory and Municipal Services, Shane Rattenbury, announced today.

Something is seriously weird with that PDF.

HiddenDragon1:36 pm 24 Apr 13

Does anyone lese see this as part of a Rattenbury plan to one day completely ban motor vehicles from city centres?

Marcus Clarke Street?

Yes, that’s the point I was subtly making…..

I think this is just a first taste of the cook-the-frog-slowly zealotry which awaits us over the next few years.

I see we are travelling back in time with that sat photo of Belco town centre they used. Its at least 3 or 4 years out of date. The Westfield takeover of the publicly owned carparks hasnt yet occurred, nor has the airport style bus lounge been built (actually, we are still waiting for that one).

kea said :

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the last hit and run on Northbourne ave closer to the Dickson end?

Last one I remember was on the corner of Northbourne & Alinga. An aged gentleman was killed crossing the road.

c_c™ said :

Predictable and unwarranted indignation in three, two, one…

Bahahahahaha

Perhaps Sgt Bungers can advise here, but what happens once you’re in the 40 km/h precinct, and then you turn a corner onto a different road? Is the speed limit 50 km/h (default, unless signposted otherwise) until you pass another sign indicating otherwise? Or does this introduce a further tier of speed limit where it’s 40km/h “unless signposted otherwise” within the precinct?

Re Tuggeranong – I am delighted at the new 40km envelope. It has cunningly excluded the roads that
– Lake Tuggeranong students,
– FaHCSIA staff,
– people exiting the Vikings or Southern Cross Club, and
– befuddled tourists searching for coffee
need to cross in order to access the Hyperdome.

Anyone that can achieve a decent speed in the block immediately surrounding the Hyperdome is doing something wrong – or possibly right.

If they want to save people from vehicle based death around the Hyperdome, they would do a lot better removing the covered cafe seating that blocks visibility at the pedestrian crossing at the main entrance (or put in some mechanism to prevent the nimbler pedestrians from bounding out from behind those structures).

HiddenDragon11:47 am 24 Apr 13

Here is a (preliminary) artist’s impression of Canberra’s town centres circa 2016; the final version will have green flag carriers for cars and cycles, and pedestrians will be licensed, microchipped and required to wear luminescent visibility gear at all times:

http://www.businesscloud9.com/sites/default/files/styles/620×325/public/images/redflag%20act.jpeg

magiccar9 said :

What is the problem is the whinging, children hugging numpties that need to take some responsibility for their own actions and the actions of their out-of-control kids. If you step out onto the road without looking then you should expect to be hit, you’re choosing to engage yourself in an unsafe manner. The pedestrian and cycle groups need to be grateful that they have paths and safe ways to already cross roads instead of always wanting more.
Rant over.

Remind me not to brake should you ever step in front of my car.

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t the last hit and run on Northbourne ave closer to the Dickson end?

What a load of s**t!
Obviously Rattenbury hasn’t been to the Tuggeranong ‘precinct’. The areas identified for speed humps are in areas where high speed isn’t achievable eg. Pittman St has about 100m between traffic lights.
Anketel St isn’t wide enough to open a car door while traffic is coming past, so why does he think increasing cycle activity is a smart idea? Unless he wants to widen the road to accommodate the cyclists. Add the fact that the concrete island is huge and there is a pedestrian crossing – how much safer does it need to be?
Danger to pedestrians and cyclists isn’t the problem in Tuggeranong – we have lived in harmony for all the years so far, what’s changed? I’m yet to see ‘hoons’ raging through the area at excessive speeds in peak hours. I’m yet to see anyone die in the area as a result of unsafe speeds. So where’s the justification?
What is the problem is the whinging, children hugging numpties that need to take some responsibility for their own actions and the actions of their out-of-control kids. If you step out onto the road without looking then you should expect to be hit, you’re choosing to engage yourself in an unsafe manner. The pedestrian and cycle groups need to be grateful that they have paths and safe ways to already cross roads instead of always wanting more.
Rant over.

Don’t agree with the speed cushions … yet. They could have extended to 40 zones to other areas easily. Even Northbourne (between London Circuit and Barry Drive) is hard to get to much over 40.

And Bunda St should be a one way single lane shared zone. 40 is too fast.

I’m glad to see Bunda street is getting them, it’s baffling to see cars driving along that road when there’s all the pedestrians and zebra crossings.

I think 40’s a good idea in those zones. But they might also want to think about adding a few more pedestrian lights. It can be pretty tricky to negotiate those crossings between parts of shopping centres by car in some of those town centres. And sometimes it is hard to avoid those streets if you’re getting to the carpark.

thebrownstreak6910:32 am 24 Apr 13

I agree with all but the speed cushions.

You’d be doing well to go above 40km/h between traffic lights, congestion etc. on most of those streets anyway (except perhaps for Marcus Clarke St and Benjamin Way).

But what’s with all the spine-jarring lethal-when-wet speed cushions?! Is that going to be Shane Rattenbury’s trademark/legacy left for subsequent generations of Canberrans to suffer – I thought he was supposed to be a Green, shouldn’t he be trying to improve efficiency rather than throw it out the window?

Predictable and unwarranted indignation in three, two, one…

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