A modest proposal on public holidays [With poll]

LSWCHP said :

Actually, while I’m here…didn’t Swift entitle one of his essays “A Modest Proposal” of some kind? Something about eating babies to mitigate a famine or something like that?

Yep, that’s the one.

(A lot of his audience didn’t get that it was satire and they weren’t supposed to take it seriously.)

johnboy said :

And yet somehow we manage to have leave entitlments

Moving somewhat away from the religious debate this has ignited, we have leave entitlements thanks mostly to the work put in by the early union movement. Indeed, when I was working in the late 80s in a factory to the north of Adelaide, leave was determined for workers by management. They enforced a one month shutdown from mid December to mid January. Too bad if you didn’t fancy taking leave, you had to clear three weeks worth, leaving one week available for use at other times.

I have a vague recollection of reading an article many moons ago that the traditional arrangement of Mon – Fri being a normal work week was primarily attributable to biblical practices. I hate quoting Wikipedia, but it’s the easiest source to find on the subject at the moment.
Link -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend

As I argued earlier, but may not have argued eloquently, strictly regulating when workers can have a day off is in an employers best interest in most circumstances. They can plan around when staff will be available. Think about it this way, what’s better for an employer:
– juggling the demands of staff with no fixed days off (can take 32 days off during any stage of the year);
– juggling the demands of staff with 12 fixed days off and 20 days unfixed; or
– fixing 32 days over a year when staff will not be onsite?

Sorry if I’ve come across as a god botherer; I don’t consider myself to be one, having a more syncretic (and therefore probably heretic) view of religion, where to a degree I acknowledge that a supreme being may exist. Maybe I should label myself as an Agnostic Polytheist.

Very, very few Australians treat Christmas or Easter as religious holidays. They are pretty much secular shopping festivals. And people of all religious persuasions indulge in Christmas – Jews, Muslims. There’s nothing to prevent Buddhists from enjoying Christmas. And do you know any kids of any religious persuasion, other than from diehard non-Christian families, who are deprived of chocolate Easter eggs on Easter Sunday? I think there are only four “religious” holidays.
Australia Day has been appropriated as just a jingoistic celebration – not many people bother too much with the colonial anniversary link.
What does that leave? Canberra Day. Any problem there? A long weekend in June – nominally the Queen’s Birthday. Who minds celebrating a random day and pretending it’s about the Queen? Any excuse should do.
New Year’s Day – where’s the exclusion of minority religions there?
I don’t even know what the October long weekend is for – (is there one?).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with anachronistic legacies of past culture if they benefit us. Two lots of four-day weekend in the course of the year is pretty healthy I would have thought.
Oh – and who is going to put their hand up and object to all of us taking a bit of time out on Anzac Day and remembering, say, Sandakan … Pozieres … Fromelles. Joizuz people – what are we complaining about again?

We should abolish all public holidays, but make every weekend a long weekend.

We have Sunday off for the christians, and Saturday off for the jews, so we should have Friday off for the muslims and for the hindus.

After all, Australia is a multicultural society, and nothing says we respect christianity, or judaism, or islam, like a three-day weekend…

Mr Gillespie said :

The problem is, like he says, the whole country shutting down to keep some group of religious bigots happy and allow them to “observe” their religious rituals, be it Easter, Christmas, Good Friday, or whatever.

Plus this double, and triple-time scheme is nothing but expensive nonsense because whatever day it is, equal work is equal value, no??

I have always believed in taking holidays in your own time, not on everyone else’s time. Have a swap system, rotate the rostered days off, within reasonable and sensible boundaries.

+1 to this and JB’s proposal. i’d take great pleasure in working christmas day and avoiding the nonsense of everyone trying to get along at great expense (petrol prices, flights), and invariably using more of my voluntary annual leave, to awful forced large family gatherings interstate just because it’s ‘tradition’ and instead agreeing with my family (also non-religious) to take that set of holidays at another time. what a load of BS! not to mention more even productivity and lower costs for both business and consumers without artificial salary and therefore product/service cost spikes on random days throughout the year.

As a Jew it has always annoyed me that one religious movement has managed to enforce a few days of officially sanctioned sloth on 100% of the population. I’d rather we do away with Christmas and Easter and add those days to annual leave entitlements. Then each of us could decide what religious or irreligious festivals we can celebrate. I’ve no problem with Anzac day, Australia Day or the Queen’s birthday.

keep posting people, john boy is almost the mully cup winner for April if i read things right – lets see him get get there

While I like the idea, it lacks a little something in practicality.

I work at ANU, and there is a certain benefit to having consistent public holidays. It means that we can run classes or not, knowing that people will be there or not. Can you imaging a class of 100 students and 12 staff members when they could ALL decide what days they wanted off? And the amount of extra work to make up those missed classes?

Considering that I already have an excess of annual leave accrued despite being there only 4 years because we don’t take time during session, organising days off would be chaos. Though I could take the same day *every* week during one session (say 12 Wednesdays) and miss one of my classes entirely…

chewy14 said :

It also ignores the fact that most people already have 4weeks leave every year and can choose to take off important days to them already.

I don’t actually care what days public holidays are on but I would say that they have to be the same for everyone.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts. We already have public hols (for whatever reasons, even if we don’t all individually ‘celebrate’ them for their reasons) planned. I would assume if I wanted another particular day (or days) off for my reasons, i’d utilise some of my annual leave or TOIL etc, which I had accumulated. My 2c…!

Actually, while I’m here…didn’t Swift entitle one of his essays “A Modest Proposal” of some kind? Something about eating babies to mitigate a famine or something like that?

This seems like a great idea to me. i don’t give a rats arse about Christianity or the Queen. In fact, I despise both institutions, and their coupling to time off work has always annoyed me.

We had an enforced Christmas shutdown imposed at my workplace a few years ago. All employees were required to use part of their annual leave to “fill the gap” between Christmas and New Year. It almost started a revolution, particularly amongst the young skiing fraternity, who liked to take their leave when there was snow on the hills.

How do we make this happen?

And to further simplify matters, let’s give the whole of Australia just the one time zone.

For simplicitys sake call it UTC/GMT + 9.25138. In the summer time all states and territories make their own arrangements…

johnboy said :

well my aim is to do away with economy wide go slows.

Which is why weekends should be included as well, isn’t it?

I think the idea of nominating your own public holidays probably has merit. I just don’t think it will ever be subject to serious debate (in my lifetime anyway).

Some things just are.

Holden Caulfield said :

How come Saturdays and Sundays aren’t on your hit list JB?

Shouldn’t we have 52 days, plus the public holidays we can nominate?

Perhaps if your post Italian & Sons experience resulted in, erm, a home run, or something, you might have had a smile on your face today.

johnboy said :

…And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

On behalf of all the Christians reading, I demand our “heaven” back, haha.

Great. Now the inevitable tacky references after a restaurant review by JB thread, are coming together (ooh err) with what is turning into a ‘I’m free to say what I like about religion so I’ll be as unnecessarily insensitive to other people as possible’ thread. If I wasn’t gifted with such a stellar sense of humour, and such a good anglican agnostic, I’d despair (thank you Duffbowl, but I’ve actually heard that latter term in church). In between lots of hideous and primitive rituals, of course.

poetix go bye-byes (probably for as much as 5 minutes…).

come on you lot – can’t you see this is johnboy trying to make a late run for his own mully cup award?

But what would happen with things around Christmas?

It works well to have periods where you could predict that everything will slow down because everyone is on holidays at the same time. Would many workers even relaly be able to effectively do their job over Christmas or during easter?

They’d probably be able to just go in to the office and bludge, and then skive off in periods of peak demand.

From an economic point of view, having everyone at the coast at the same time, to use that example, does have benefits.

Predictable peaks and troughs allows for business planning in construction, retail, administration, basically everything.

How come Saturdays and Sundays aren’t on your hit list JB?

Shouldn’t we have 52 days, plus the public holidays we can nominate?

Perhaps if your post Italian & Sons experience resulted in, erm, a home run, or something, you might have had a smile on your face today.

johnboy said :

…And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

On behalf of all the Christians reading, I demand our “heaven” back, haha.

poetix said :

Could we try and discuss the proposal without bashing any particular religion?

Absolutely. We should bash them all equally.

These “religious” holidays in Australia have, in my long experience, had religious significance for nought but a tiny proportion of the population.

They may have had a religious foundation but for most Australians they’ve been secular for yonks so it’s neither surprising nor improper that they’re celebrated by Australians of all religions and none – they’re just part of the Australian way of life.

Long may it continue.

johnboy said :

personally I’d run it as a seperate entitlement to leave, but yours works too.

I used to work for a large IT organisation where we were entitled to one day off every calendar year as global diversity day. This was to encourage us to have the day off on days of cultural or religious significance. This day off was not part of our annual leave balance.
I kinda miss GDD now. *sigh*

I can’t see anything wrong with the plan. It could be done very simply, but only by the feds.
-increase leave entitlements for part/full time workers to compensate
-proportionately increase the casual loading for casuals
-eliminate the holidays
all done.

Mysteryman said :

That’s great, but it’s still got nothing to do with the point. The forming of the Australian nation and the founding of a British colony are not the same thing. Keep trying, though.

Yes, the national day is wrong and you are right.

I don’t know how this proposal would be supposed to increase productivity.

If anything it would make things significantly worse as large sections of the community would want to have many different days off creating massive headaches for businesses.
ie most people would want to have Christmas/New Years time off regardless of religious reasons.

It also ignores the fact that most people already have 4weeks leave every year and can choose to take off important days to them already.

I don’t actually care what days public holidays are on but I would say that they have to be the same for everyone.

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

Do you not know the difference between a colony and a nation? Probably best to familiarise yourself with the terms if you’re going to make claims about what a country is, or it not, founded on.

I’m sorry what day is Australia celebrated on again?

What has that got to do with the issue? You’re really grasping at straws, mate.

Hmm, what have we here…

Australia Day (previously known as Anniversary Day, Foundation Day, and ANA Day) is the official national day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, the date commemorates the arrival of the First Fleet at Sydney Cove in 1788 and the proclamation at that time of British sovereignty over the eastern seaboard of New Holland.

Although it was not known as Australia Day until over a century later, records of celebrations on 26 January date back to 1808, with the first official celebration of the formation of New South Wales held in 1818. It is presently an official public holiday in every state and territory of Australia and is marked by the presentation of the Australian of the Year Awards on Australia Day Eve, announcement of the Honours List for the Order of Australia and addresses from the Governor-General and Prime Minister.

With community festivals, concerts and citizenship ceremonies the day is celebrated in large and small communities and cities around the nation. Australia Day has become the biggest annual civic event in Australia.

But no, I’m sure you’re right.

That’s great, but it’s still got nothing to do with the point. The forming of the Australian nation and the founding of a British colony are not the same thing. Keep trying, though.

Mysteryman said :

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

Do you not know the difference between a colony and a nation? Probably best to familiarise yourself with the terms if you’re going to make claims about what a country is, or it not, founded on.

I’m sorry what day is Australia celebrated on again?

What has that got to do with the issue? You’re really grasping at straws, mate.

Hmm, what have we here…

Australia Day (previously known as Anniversary Day, Foundation Day, and ANA Day) is the official national day of Australia. Celebrated annually on 26 January, the date commemorates the arrival of the First Fleet at Sydney Cove in 1788 and the proclamation at that time of British sovereignty over the eastern seaboard of New Holland.

Although it was not known as Australia Day until over a century later, records of celebrations on 26 January date back to 1808, with the first official celebration of the formation of New South Wales held in 1818. It is presently an official public holiday in every state and territory of Australia and is marked by the presentation of the Australian of the Year Awards on Australia Day Eve, announcement of the Honours List for the Order of Australia and addresses from the Governor-General and Prime Minister.

With community festivals, concerts and citizenship ceremonies the day is celebrated in large and small communities and cities around the nation. Australia Day has become the biggest annual civic event in Australia.

But no, I’m sure you’re right.

youami said :

Did you, Duffbowl, would (or had) tick(ed) in the census “Anglican” even though you admit yourself you are agnostic and non-practising?

I would suggest that there are significantly more than 15.5% who have no formal established religion because they either completed the census wrong by assuming that religion status also includes non-practicising or they didn’t want to offend. Non-practicising means just that, you are either not religious in the first place or you are simply not aligned to the stream of your religious upbringing. I was baptised Presbyterian but I am an atheist now so my upbringing is a moot point.

Of course if anyone who is non-practising yet still thinks there is a magic and mystical almighty in the sky, then I would put it to them that they are simply a non-denominational believer in an omnipotent monotheist etc (either #29 or #699) not anything else (eg. not Anglican #201 in your case Duffbowl).

I do apologise, I forgot to post the more granular Religious Groups list. Under that, the ABS recognises, for example, two Anglican groups; Anglican Church of Australia (#2012), and Anglican Catholic Church (#2013). However, Islam is still lumped together, as is Judaism. Given the range, I’ll just suggest folk have a look for themselves.

I self identified in my comment as an agnostic anglican more in jest than anything else. Most people think of the Anglican Church as being protestant; the church itself claims to be Catholic and Apostolic, as announced in the creed.

I do take issue that saying because a person self identifies but does not attend a fixed religious service lessens their right to call themselves a member of a certain religion, as it seems somewhat condescending.

johnyboy is an idiot we need a coup

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

Do you not know the difference between a colony and a nation? Probably best to familiarise yourself with the terms if you’re going to make claims about what a country is, or it not, founded on.

I’m sorry what day is Australia celebrated on again?

What has that got to do with the issue? You’re really grasping at straws, mate.

poetix said :

youami said :

johnboy said :

Remind me again why the day a jew was crucified 2,000 years ago, as signified by phases of the moon is a cause for non christians to not go to work now, while those non christians still have to work the days they do care about?

Not to mention there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone that went by the name of Jesus Christ was even crucified. And also keep in mind Christmas in all it’s glory is a pagan holiday celebrating the Winter solstice and gift giving from Saturnalia. And I support johnboy’s claim that Australia was not founded on Christianity, it was almost the opposite given the socio-economic class that the convicts derived from.

Not that I believe everything I read, especially Wikipedia, following link does have some great references to look up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

Could we try and discuss the proposal without bashing any particular religion?

No we can’t. After all, a free country means it’s acceptable to lambast any religion you don’t believe in or disagree with.

Mysteryman said :

Do you not know the difference between a colony and a nation? Probably best to familiarise yourself with the terms if you’re going to make claims about what a country is, or it not, founded on.

I’m sorry what day is Australia celebrated on again?

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

We had some 80 or so years of convicts being sent here, the last of which occured quite some time before federation (or the process thereof). Voluntary migration was a much, much larger part of shaping our nation, as were the people born here. According to the records, some 96% of people in Australia in 1901 identified themselves as being Christian. And still more than 63% as of 6 years ago. Hardly representative of “a distinct lack of Christian values”.

Ahh right, so you’re only counting since federation now?

And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

Do you not know the difference between a colony and a nation? Probably best to familiarise yourself with the terms if you’re going to make claims about what a country is, or it not, founded on.

No, I would knock back the proposal because I think it’s foolish. How is allowing anyone to take their own public holidays going to improve productivity (which seems to be one of your complaints)? Planning around absence and periods of down time is easy to do with a set calendar of sactioned public holidays. Allowing people to take off whichever days they want to will make things far more complicated, and harder to account and plan for.

youami said :

johnboy said :

Remind me again why the day a jew was crucified 2,000 years ago, as signified by phases of the moon is a cause for non christians to not go to work now, while those non christians still have to work the days they do care about?

Not to mention there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone that went by the name of Jesus Christ was even crucified. And also keep in mind Christmas in all it’s glory is a pagan holiday celebrating the Winter solstice and gift giving from Saturnalia. And I support johnboy’s claim that Australia was not founded on Christianity, it was almost the opposite given the socio-economic class that the convicts derived from.

Not that I believe everything I read, especially Wikipedia, following link does have some great references to look up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

Could we try and discuss the proposal without bashing any particular religion?

“in fact I think the whole calendar needs a revamp. Why have 7 days a week because of some story in the bible. I say we move to a ten day week; three days on, one day off, four days on, two days off. As we can’t change the number of days in a year there would need to be a 5 day end of year festival (6 in a leap year) to sync up the astronomical cycle. No public holidays, just 14 days annual leave which would make the number of days worked in a year the same as now.”

This is the best idea I’ve heard in a long time.

As an atheist, I feel like a hypocrite for enjoying the time off granted to me by our sky-fairy-believing overlords, and often wonder what other non-christian people make of the whole arrangement.

Is it just me, or are the most intolerant responses here coming from the god-botherers (as usual)?

HenryBG said :

Or is this a PC-initiative being pushed on their behalf by rather-too-earnest vegetarians?

Erm, it’s one writer, me, thought bubbling a better way to organise society to the benefit of all not just the largest single grouping in a diverse society (at not cost whatsoever to that grouping and in fact with significant advantages to all concerned).

My lucky husband gets the both of Australian and American holidays. I want his job!

Duffbowl said :

“It’s 2012 and we’re not all white anglo saxon protestants around here trooping of to church every Sunday and observing the Sabbath.”

You’re right. I’m not a white anglo saxon protestant; I’m white-ish anglo celt agnostic anglican. I certainly don’t troop off to church on any Sunday, as I’m not keen on organised religion. However, according to the ABS, 68% of Australians still consider themselves to be Christian in 2001. The next biggest groups were:
– No religion (15.5%)
– Not stated/ inadequately described (11.7%)
– Other religions (4.9%)

…

Of course the difficulty with using the census is that people who are not “practicising” or who consider themselves agnostic or borderline atheist have in the past generally still ticked the religion of their upbringing and/or the religion that they were baptised against.

Did you, Duffbowl, would (or had) tick(ed) in the census “Anglican” even though you admit yourself you are agnostic and non-practising?

I would suggest that there are significantly more than 15.5% who have no formal established religion because they either completed the census wrong by assuming that religion status also includes non-practicising or they didn’t want to offend. Non-practicising means just that, you are either not religious in the first place or you are simply not aligned to the stream of your religious upbringing. I was baptised Presbyterian but I am an atheist now so my upbringing is a moot point.

Of course if anyone who is non-practising yet still thinks there is a magic and mystical almighty in the sky, then I would put it to them that they are simply a non-denominational believer in an omnipotent monotheist etc (either #29 or #699) not anything else (eg. not Anglican #201 in your case Duffbowl).

johnboy said :

HenryBG said :

In what way can “everyone else” currently not practice their holidays as they see fit?

Because they have to shut up shop on days they care nothing for and yet get no consideration for their own days.

So you’re suggesting that 63% of the population “have to shut up shop on days they care nothing for” on account of the 4.9% who do care about those days?

Do we have any stats on the percentage of this 4.9% who actually get their knickers in a twist over this?
Or is this a PC-initiative being pushed on their behalf by rather-too-earnest vegetarians?

johnboy said :

Because the phases of the moon in relation to a 2 millennia ago event held sacred by a faith you don’t even follow is the rational basis for your work life?

Tch, JB – the Easter Bunny died for your sins! Isn’t that enough reason for a holiday?

Let’s have more! How about Festivus?

HenryBG said :

In what way can “everyone else” currently not practice their holidays as they see fit?

Because they have to shut up shop on days they care nothing for and yet get no consideration for their own days.

if staff get triple time for their designated days of significance I can bet you bosses would be lining up to let them have the day off.

Somewhat in reverse in the hospitality industry they’re always oversubscribed with staff willing to work christmas to get the penalty rates.

johnboy said :

And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

In what way can “everyone else” currently not practice their holidays as they see fit?

Duffbowl said :

– Other religions (4.9%)

I’m happy if we give them 4.9% of our public holidays.
That’s 4 hours 42 minutes per annum (4 hours 24 minutes and 40 seconds for the pubes among us).

They can fight it out amongst themselves to decide whose holy day gets up.

I’m a catholic. I’ll keep my days off, thanks.

Now I don’t know if other religions require days off for observance. Maybe they like other things, like concealing their faces in public, banning plastic bags or having special lanes screened off in swimming pools.

But if they want days off as well then I don’t oppose their right to have them. They can use their popular influence like everyone else these days.

This approach probably won’t work out well for businesses – especially small businesses – but that boat sailed eons ago.

johnboy said :

And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

So, only Christians that are recognised under some system as being Christian are entitled? Cool.

Personally, I thought sharing of the religious holidays was a very Christian thing to do 😉

Getting rid of public holidays and turning them into 10 discretionary days off would mean we lose them. Also, part of the scene is that they are events, marked in the calendar, something of remark and note.

As for celebrating other cultures’ holidays, sure, when they celebrate ours. There seems to be a one-sided stampede to reduce our own cultural markers while inflating those of other cultures, after all, they wear funnier clothes and have more interesting food, so their cultures are “stronger” than ours. Our public holidays, with the exception of that fake ACT Government one, are part of our culture and they mark out the year.

I’m with you on this one johnboy.
In fact I think the whole calendar needs a revamp. Why have 7 days a week because of some story in the bible. I say we move to a ten day week; three days on, one day off, four days on, two days off. As we can’t change the number of days in a year there would need to be a 5 day end of year festival (6 in a leap year) to sync up the astronomical cycle. No public holidays, just 14 days annual leave which would make the number of days worked in a year the same as now.

Mysteryman said :

We had some 80 or so years of convicts being sent here, the last of which occured quite some time before federation (or the process thereof). Voluntary migration was a much, much larger part of shaping our nation, as were the people born here. According to the records, some 96% of people in Australia in 1901 identified themselves as being Christian. And still more than 63% as of 6 years ago. Hardly representative of “a distinct lack of Christian values”.

Ahh right, so you’re only counting since federation now?

And because 63% self identify as christian with no particular christian practice (or heaven forfend understanding) you would knock back a proposal which would still let christians practice christian holidays but let everyone else have a fair crack too?

johnboy said :

Mysteryman said :

This country was founded by people claiming to be of Christian beliefs/ideals, like it or not. Those ideals have been upheld through our relatively short history by both government and the general public, and played a very large part in influencing a great many aspects of our society, including our public holidays. You don’t like it? That’s ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But I think you’ll find that you are in the minority.

This country was founded by convicts in chains being regularly physically assaulted while the original inhabitants of the land were dispossessed.

There was a distinct lack of Christian values in the nation’s foundings. And there are what, 3 days of holidays on the calendar that existed in 1788?

Actually, colonising a place and creating a nation are two separate things. Related, yes, but they are not the same. The country was founded by a group of people who wanted to see the British colonies unite and become self-governing. Most of these people were practicing Christians, or of Christian influence.

We had some 80 or so years of convicts being sent here, the last of which occured quite some time before federation (or the process thereof). Voluntary migration was a much, much larger part of shaping our nation, as were the people born here. According to the records, some 96% of people in Australia in 1901 identified themselves as being Christian. And still more than 63% as of 6 years ago. Hardly representative of “a distinct lack of Christian values”.

youami said :

Not to mention there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone that went by the name of Jesus Christ was even crucified.

I especially like how in the Bible, the “prophet” Isaiah prophecies that god will send a son called “Immanuel” down to earth, and this prophecy comes true when Mary has her magically-conceived son and calls him…er….”Jesus”.

Like, when you’re making up stuff, it kinda helps to keep it at least semi-consistent. Whoever wrote the Bible wasn’t even trying.
Maybe it’s a gullibility test?

“It’s 2012 and we’re not all white anglo saxon protestants around here trooping of to church every Sunday and observing the Sabbath.”

You’re right. I’m not a white anglo saxon protestant; I’m white-ish anglo celt agnostic anglican. I certainly don’t troop off to church on any Sunday, as I’m not keen on organised religion. However, according to the ABS, 68% of Australians still consider themselves to be Christian in 2001. The next biggest groups were:
– No religion (15.5%)
– Not stated/ inadequately described (11.7%)
– Other religions (4.9%)

Link -> http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/bb8db737e2af84b8ca2571780015701e/bfdda1ca506d6cfaca2570de0014496e!OpenDocument

While looking for the above, I did find that the ABS only breaks down Christianity by sect.
From ABS 1266.0 Australian Standard Classification of Religious Groups, Second Edition, 2011.

1 BUDDHISM
101 Buddhism

2 CHRISTIANITY
201 Anglican
203 Baptist
205 Brethren
207 Catholic
211 Churches of Christ
213 Jehovah’s Witnesses
215 Latter-day Saints
217 Lutheran
221 Oriental Orthodox
222 Assyrian Apostolic
223 Eastern Orthodox
225 Presbyterian and Reformed
227 Salvation Army
231 Seventh-day Adventist
233 Uniting Church
24 Pentecostal
28 Other Protestant
29 Other Christian

3 HINDUISM
301 Hinduism

4 ISLAM
401 Islam

5 JUDAISM
501 Judaism

6 OTHER RELIGIONS
601 Australian Aboriginal Traditional Religions
603 Baha’i
605 Chinese Religions
607 Druse
611 Japanese Religions
613 Nature Religions
615 Sikhism
617 Spiritualism
699 Miscellaneous Religions

7 NO RELIGION
701 No Religion

johnboy said :

Remind me again why the day a jew was crucified 2,000 years ago, as signified by phases of the moon is a cause for non christians to not go to work now, while those non christians still have to work the days they do care about?

Not to mention there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone that went by the name of Jesus Christ was even crucified. And also keep in mind Christmas in all it’s glory is a pagan holiday celebrating the Winter solstice and gift giving from Saturnalia. And I support johnboy’s claim that Australia was not founded on Christianity, it was almost the opposite given the socio-economic class that the convicts derived from.

Not that I believe everything I read, especially Wikipedia, following link does have some great references to look up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

johnboy said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Is there a specific reason for this topic? The tone of your story seems kinda angry.

You don’t see that the current system is

[…]
b) deeply unfair to large sections of the community
[…]

?

Don’t exaggerate. Non-christians in this country are a tiny, tiny minority, and nowhere near to being “large sections”.

You may have noticed, but most of the celebrations you mentioned as being potential alternatives to our Christmas/Easter/etc… belong to cultures from countries whose people are mostly desperate to *leave*.
This stands in contrast to this country, which has a huge demand for migration places every year.

It seems that not only is this country happy with its holidays, but most foreigners would rather come and live in a society informed by this culture rather than any other.

If it ain’t broken, let’s not “fix” it. PC has done enough damage to this society already.

The problem is, like he says, the whole country shutting down to keep some group of religious bigots happy and allow them to “observe” their religious rituals, be it Easter, Christmas, Good Friday, or whatever.

Plus this double, and triple-time scheme is nothing but expensive nonsense because whatever day it is, equal work is equal value, no??

I have always believed in taking holidays in your own time, not on everyone else’s time. Have a swap system, rotate the rostered days off, within reasonable and sensible boundaries.

johnboy said :

There was a distinct lack of Christian values in the nation’s foundings. And there are what, 3 days of holidays on the calendar that existed in 1788?

Define Christian values.

The value of public holidays is that employers can predict with certainty that employees will not be available on those days. Tack another 12 days onto annual leave, and forecasting becomes murkier by 4.6%. This is low end, without considering anything other than it becomes 32 days out of 260 vice 20.

The value of removing public holidays for employers is reducing their wage bills, particularly for workers on wages. If you have your employees rostered on for public holidays, for 8 hours work, that’s the equivalent of 240 wage hours. Clawing back the extra cash will give an 11.5% saving per employee.

Many years ago, I worked as a union organiser and was contacted by a group of people whose employer was trying to force them to take parts of their annual leave to fit it with his religious holidays, which they did not want to happen. Surely there would be more of this type of thing with your scheme? I am not trying to prop up any religion here, but I think you would find people in fairly mundane jobs missing out. “Choice” only works for those with bargaining power. It is largely a myth.

Most workplaces allow you to take days of religious significance off if they are from another religion.
I have even heard of small offices closing on days of Jewish signigicance cos the boss was Jewish.

johnboy said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Is there a specific reason for this topic? The tone of your story seems kinda angry.

You don’t see that the current system is

a) ludicrous
b) deeply unfair to large sections of the community
c) bloody awful for anyone trying to get anything serious done

?

a) No it’s not
b) quite possibly, and it would be great to change public holidays to be more inclusive of other cultures
c) No it’s not

Mysteryman said :

This country was founded by people claiming to be of Christian beliefs/ideals, like it or not. Those ideals have been upheld through our relatively short history by both government and the general public, and played a very large part in influencing a great many aspects of our society, including our public holidays. You don’t like it? That’s ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But I think you’ll find that you are in the minority.

This country was founded by convicts in chains being regularly physically assaulted while the original inhabitants of the land were dispossessed.

There was a distinct lack of Christian values in the nation’s foundings. And there are what, 3 days of holidays on the calendar that existed in 1788?

Also, your poll is a joke.

I think this is a great idea. Personally I’d choose the 10 days that would cause greatest incovenience to coworkers I don’t like, and invent colourfully inappropriate names to mark each holiday.

This country was founded by people claiming to be of Christian beliefs/ideals, like it or not. Those ideals have been upheld through our relatively short history by both government and the general public, and played a very large part in influencing a great many aspects of our society, including our public holidays. You don’t like it? That’s ok. You are entitled to your opinion. But I think you’ll find that you are in the minority.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Is there a specific reason for this topic? The tone of your story seems kinda angry.

You don’t see that the current system is

a) ludicrous
b) deeply unfair to large sections of the community
c) bloody awful for anyone trying to get anything serious done

?

trevar said :

I’ve thought the same way for a long time, but there are a few relatively decent-sized snags…

Administering your idea would be a bit bureaucratic for the average small business owner. This essentially amounts to an additional two and a bit weeks annual leave, so it would be better to ditch the notion of ‘public holidays’ altogether and increase annual leave provision to six weeks in its place.

But if every individual in a particular workplace does want to observe ANZAC Day, for instance, but ANZAC Day is not a public holiday, it does create some difficulties for employers in terms of keeping the place open when all staff have an ‘expectation’ of being able to commemorate a day of great cultural significance (even if the tradition is “honoured more in the breach than the observance”, as ANZAC Day is).

And if you maintain a few big ones, how do you reasonably determine which ones to maintain? Even while acknowledging that the religious observances are different for different people, other commenters have nonetheless suggested we maintain those specific dates that are significant only for Christians and Pagans.

And for casual and shift workers, it would be a significant inconvenience as there could be no way of compensating for the loss of penalty rates.

I like the idea, but it needs more work to achieve multicultural utopia!

Well, firstly I would do away with all other public holidays as a day off (the government can sponsor whatever commemoration is politic at the time)

And admin would be no more difficult than coordinating annual leave is now. Also note tripletime for those asked to work on their designated holidays covers casuals.

johnboy said :

Because the phases of the moon in relation to a 2 millennia ago event held sacred by a faith you don’t even follow is the rational basis for your work life?

Is there a specific reason for this topic? The tone of your story seems kinda angry.

I’ve thought the same way for a long time, but there are a few relatively decent-sized snags…

Administering your idea would be a bit bureaucratic for the average small business owner. This essentially amounts to an additional two and a bit weeks annual leave, so it would be better to ditch the notion of ‘public holidays’ altogether and increase annual leave provision to six weeks in its place.

But if every individual in a particular workplace does want to observe ANZAC Day, for instance, but ANZAC Day is not a public holiday, it does create some difficulties for employers in terms of keeping the place open when all staff have an ‘expectation’ of being able to commemorate a day of great cultural significance (even if the tradition is “honoured more in the breach than the observance”, as ANZAC Day is).

And if you maintain a few big ones, how do you reasonably determine which ones to maintain? Even while acknowledging that the religious observances are different for different people, other commenters have nonetheless suggested we maintain those specific dates that are significant only for Christians and Pagans.

And for casual and shift workers, it would be a significant inconvenience as there could be no way of compensating for the loss of penalty rates.

I like the idea, but it needs more work to achieve multicultural utopia!

Totally agree JB that the christians amongst us are more catered for than other religions and beliefs.

Let’s even it up.

Personally I like the idea, but I can see how it wouldn’t work for families.

A lot of public holidays allow families to spend time together as both the parents and children have the day off (mostly) – and the higher rates of pay on public holidays allow somewhat for greater inconvenience to parents who have to work.

There’s a bit of a problem in as much as parents then would need to pull the kids out of school on the days they had nominated, if it was to be a ‘family day’.

Of course, I suppose parents could also nominate days for their ‘public holidays’ during the school holidays, but I’d imagine this would give a pretty serious exodus of child-wielding employees from some businesses during school holidays – especially when that is combined with annual leave.

Not sayin’ I don’t like the idea myself, but I can see arguments against it.

No, no, no, no. At least the fact we all have the same days off means that there is some remaining notion of community. Even if we spend those days getting away from each other as quickly as possible. I agree with you about the lameness of the Family and Community Day, which they may as well have called Motherhood Day. Oh wait, we have one of those. And it’s coming up soon.

Love the totally neutral poll too!

Merle said :

Most public holidays don’t hold any emotional or spiritual significance to the majority of the population, it’s true. That doesn’t mean there aren’t practical reasons for public holidays being set dates, as buzz819 pointed out.

And those practical reasons are? Putting everyone on the road to the coast on the same weekend?

JB, I like it. As a Brit who has been living happily in this country for longer than I now care to remember, I still find the Queens birthday holiday amusing, (doesn’t exist in the UK), as well as the bunched up way that they happen around the beginning of the year. And don’t get me started on Family & Community services day…the holiday they gave to show who’s boss and then couldn’t take back when it was declared a dud.

The UK this year has 9 days and this includes the Diamond Jubilee freebie that wouldn’t ordinarily happen. This year in Canberra there will be 12 all up, 13 if you include the Sunday that was also made a public holiday.

I would probably keep Easter in there and obviously Xmas, but other than that – let the proletariat decide how they wish to spend the remainder. Wouldn’t include Anzac day as it’s just become a drink fest without much respect paid to what it’s actually for. There sn’t a universal day off for Rememberance day in the UK – it’s on a Sunday, shock horror. There is no Anzac Day equivalent.

It would also assist with the issue of having to pay double time rates for casual workers who choose or have to work on public holidays. If only a handful of dates are officially public holidays then it reduces the cost to business. And it should be “use it or lose it”.

I’m sure I’ve offended someone with that last statement.

Most public holidays don’t hold any emotional or spiritual significance to the majority of the population, it’s true. That doesn’t mean there aren’t practical reasons for public holidays being set dates, as buzz819 pointed out.

No, I don’t like it.

Working where I do, one of the only perks is actually working a public holiday. You start messing around with “Your own holidays” and the work place will find another way to screw you out of double time, not a good idea really.

All you are really asking for is 10 more rdo’s, then the loss of pay for already gazetted public holidays.