HMAS Canberra arrives!

indeed

johnboy said :

I’d guess we might even start with US Marine’s

Pardon the pedantry:

US marines

Snarky said :

this boat… by boat?

A ship, being transported by a ship. Reasons all explained quite well.

farnarkler said :

I am truly surprised that Defence didn’t buy the US Wasp class carriers.

Bigger than needed, with a crew that’s unachieveable on current manning levels. The RAN could get one, which means no redundancy and a move away from a two ocean system.

farnarkler said :

Sorry but the septics have had over 20 years and 8 examples of the Wasp class to get things right. I’m sure they’d sell a couple to their good allies like Australia.

From memory, the last time the Yanks looked after us, we got two landing ships that were barely serviceable, and paid more per ship for them than Morocco did. Strong allies do not get the discounts…

Pork Hunt said :

Stop it, you’re making sense. DMO is completely incapable of buying anything off the shelf.
First they have to argue and get xx % Australian content and partial assembly in Australia followed by a squillion modifications from the standard bit of kit.
If you bought a car the same way defence buy weapons platforms, you would get your MY 2012 wheels in about 2020.
They would be brand new of course with zero k’s, just obsolete…

The problem with just about any hi-tech weapons platform is time to service, and time to expire. I’m sure Defence would be more than happy to get your opinion on it. It feels like burning to defend DMO, so I’ll stop now 🙂

Pork Hunt said :

BerraBoy68 said :

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On a positive note, the Hercules C130J project was a good one. They wanted new C130’s so they went to Lockheed and bought some. Doesn’t get easier than that.

Also the C-17 and Super-Hornets. Problem is, what we want isn’t always what is readily available (or on offer).

johnboy said :

farnarkler said :

Sorry but the septics have had over 20 years and 8 examples of the Wasp class to get things right. I’m sure they’d sell a couple to their good allies like Australia.

US makes their ships waaay more manpower instensive than we can afford to operate.

Luckily they’re working on that now: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13576_3-57477138-315/navys-new-ship-sails-the-seas-on-half-the-gas/

BerraBoy68 said :

Pork Hunt said :

farnarkler said :

If you bought a car the same way defence buy weapons platforms, you would get your MY 2012 wheels in about 2020.
They would be brand new of course with zero k’s, just obsolete…

Except of course no shipbuilder builds these in bulk in the hope that someone will just wonder by and buy one. The process to buy a new aircraft, ship etc. takes years during which time new technology will be developed that buyer will also want at additional cost etc.. Occasionally, a supplier will let you jump the queue and take a platform nearing completion, but there you go….

For my money, flying any UAV of decent size (e.g. at least a Predator) off one of these within the next 10-15 year is a dream.

Half of the problem is the time taken to reach agreement to the specification from all the stake holders.
One way of expediting progress would be to embed ADF personnel with US Defence people when they look at new ships/aircraft etc. They are our number one ally after all.
Do it with members of several different ranks, get them to make contacts for their the whole of their defence force career so that when they become Air Vice Marshall’s and Defence Chiefs there is some corporate knowledge in house
This way we could get spots on production lines, commonality of design and delivery dates that are realistic and within budget.
IMHO the F35 saga is just another repeat of the F111 story except much more expensive.

On a positive note, the Hercules C130J project was a good one. They wanted new C130’s so they went to Lockheed and bought some. Doesn’t get easier than that.

farnarkler said :

Sorry but the septics have had over 20 years and 8 examples of the Wasp class to get things right. I’m sure they’d sell a couple to their good allies like Australia.

US makes their ships waaay more manpower instensive than we can afford to operate.

With the ski ramp I think this will turn out to be far more useful.

It’s big, it’s roomy, it’s capabilities are largely determined by what we load it up with so it’s very flexible and good into the future.

Also the well dock has some intriguing possibilities for running unmanned underwater craft in the future too.

All that and it will be the first asset sent for disaster relief too.

Sorry but the septics have had over 20 years and 8 examples of the Wasp class to get things right. I’m sure they’d sell a couple to their good allies like Australia.

Pork Hunt said :

farnarkler said :

If you bought a car the same way defence buy weapons platforms, you would get your MY 2012 wheels in about 2020.
They would be brand new of course with zero k’s, just obsolete…

Except of course no shipbuilder builds these in bulk in the hope that someone will just wonder by and buy one. The process to buy a new aircraft, ship etc. takes years during which time new technology will be developed that buyer will also want at additional cost etc.. Occasionally, a supplier will let you jump the queue and take a platform nearing completion, but there you go….

For my money, flying any UAV of decent size (e.g. at least a Predator) off one of these within the next 10-15 year is a dream.

farnarkler said :

Considering the superstructure is going to weigh in at 2-3 thousand tons, the ship would lean and capsize if it was floated right now.

I am truly surprised that Defence didn’t buy the US Wasp class carriers. Seeing as we lean on the US as defence partners in the region, why not have the same hardware? Off the shelf, they’re $100 million more, however, are bigger. The Spanish design which has been purchased looks to be just like the subs; the hull made by one company, the weapons systems by another, the propulsion by yet another, etc. Ultimately not working properly. It looks like Defence didn’t learn from their mistakes!!

Stop it, you’re making sense. DMO is completely incapable of buying anything off the shelf.
First they have to argue and get xx % Australian content and partial assembly in Australia followed by a squillion modifications from the standard bit of kit.
If you bought a car the same way defence buy weapons platforms, you would get your MY 2012 wheels in about 2020.
They would be brand new of course with zero k’s, just obsolete…