Wanted: Big Canberra Battery providers with spark

The services were typically provided by gas generators in the past, but due to their ability to inject or draw power from the grid almost instantly, batteries are more suited to the task.

Due to the wider proliferation of renewables, particularly small scale residential solar, the services are becoming more important.

Those problems with the fancy, technical names were never a problem when we has 100% fossil fuel generation.

Capital Retro,
By “fancy technical names”, you mean basic concepts that have always existed and been managed regardless of generation technology.

Thanks for admitting your ignorance on this topic, always happy to help educate you.

Not only me that is ignorant on this topic chewy, it appears you are the only person in Australia that understands it because when I Google “what is grid frequency control and short term peak supply in electricity distribution” no information is forthcoming.

Perhaps I should have included the word “renewable”?

Anyhow, I am comfortable knowing that you have our backs. Meanwhile for me. ignorance is bliss.

Capital Retro,
I always knew you had a different “selective” Googling habit but maybe your spelling is off and you’re blind too.

Conducting the exact search you claim to have made brings up mountains of information and explanations on the topic.

At least you admit your ignorance though, perhaps we’ll get less of these types of ridiculous posts from you now.

Please send me the links.

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=frequency+control

Thanks chewy – that’s a very comprehensive search engine link.

As I said initially, we didn’t have these “frequency” problems before renewables took over and the ABC appear to have confirmed that: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-24/aemc-says-australias-power-system-weakened-by-wind-solar/8381356

Capital Retro,
I’m happy to provide links but not when people deliberately lie as you have done here.

Also hilarious that apparently you couldn’t click on the first link of the previous google searches but you can find a 4 year old news article because you think it supports your predetermined position.

Thanks for once again confirming your extreme cherry picking and confirmation biases in your selective googling.

The problem with your claim is that if you weren’t so selective in that googling, you would understand that these issues always existed and are a fundamental part of grid management.

As I’ve always said the transition to more renewable energy sources creates new and different challenges to managing the electricity grid but those challenges are more than made up for in cheaper electricity and better environmental outcomes.

Your comments are akin to saying that there were less problems with maintaining horses and carriages when the automobile was invented. Actually, thinking about it, you probably did say that at the time.

A good thing there is an easy solution through the newer, cheaper, more efficient technology then, eh CR?

Windmills needed no boiler maintenance. Stone adzes needed no smelting fire.

Windmills (AKA wind turbines) actually need fossil fuel generated electricity from the grid when the wind stops blowing. How stupid is that?

Capital Retro,
I’ve provided you multiple links showing that isn’t the case.

Its like saying that Coal power stations need other generators when they break down or run out of fuel.

Dispatchable power generators old fella, no fossil fuels required.

Nice deflection from my claim that wind turbines sometimes have to draw power from the grid and I don’t think it has anything to do with “dispatchable power generators” either.

I have picked some fresh cherries and I hope you get indigestion on what is confirmed here: https://www.energywarden.com/how-do-wind-turbines-work-without-wind/
namely “they could also be drawing power from the grid to rotate the blades during cold periods of the year to prevent the blades and gears freezing up.”

Capital Retro,
this isn’t even cherry picking now, it’s actually sad.

Most of us have to deal with the reality of what is affordable and practical and the ICE powered vehicles are way in front.

One can buy a quality 10 year old 2 litre ICE vehicle with 100,000 kms on the clock for about $7500 (10% of the new price of a new EV). There is no warranty included but if the service history has integrity there should be no major problems. You also mention the cost of replacing a timing belt which usually recommended at 100,000 kms. I have never replaced one and I don’t know anyone that has. Most people only drive about 5000km a year so looking 10 years down the road the ICE vehicle will be still be going strong and worth a few thousand dollars whereas the EV will have a clapped out battery and will be worth nothing.

Sure, there are potentially more maintenance costs in owning a ICE but even if these are $1,000 a year the end cost is still miles ahead of the capital cost of an EV.

The price of electricity is still increasing as more renewables come on line yet the price of petrol will probably reduce as there is still plenty of it on tap and it’s available “on every corner”.

There are still fire risks with EVs so until they are sorted out there will be restrictions on where they can be housed.

Avoiding the point, yes, CR?

I corrected kenbehrens’ distortions around warranty and replacement, so you have charged in with several other absurdities of your own.

Dragging in current new (and falling) price of EVs has zero to do with kenbehrens’ claim. I properly compared actual engine costs on the same terms to dismiss the myth of massive battery expense at 8 years either being necessary or economically different compared with ICE.

I am sorry to hear you know only people who do not maintain their vehicles (and doubtless in most respects if such is their habit). Please give us a list of names so others know from whom never to buy.

Your “Most people drive only about 5000km a year…” is complete rubbish. Average car mileage in Australia is about 13,000 Km and average car age 10.1 years (go on, Google them). Even the ACT fleet averages 9.4 years.

Renewables are driving down the cost of electricity across Australia and elsewhere, compared with coal. Sorry to have to remind you of truths so unpalatable to you.

Per hundred thousand cars sold, hybrid (ICE+electric) have twice as many fires as pure ICE, and pure ICE have 60 times as many fires as pure EV. For example Kia and Hyundai have recalled 6.5 million vehicles, dated 2010-2021, for risk of spontaneous fire, so they should be parked outside.

Have you any legitimate and relevant points to make at all?

Phydeaux,
Stop raising these inconvenient facts.

Well, it’s great we have choices. You and the other wealthy and gullible virtue signaling warmists can have their EVs and the rest of us can bank on the certainty of proven and efficient ICE powered vehicles at a fraction of the price.

The point about EV fires I was making relates to the fact that they can’t be extinguished and while they are “burning out” in confined spaces (like apartment basements) the toxic fumes could kill lots of people.

How about you go your way (if you can find a charging point) and the rest of us will go ours, knowing there is a petrol station where we are going.

Ha, ha chewy. I see you are channeling Al Gore’s “inconvenient truths” climate change mantra.

I think every doom and gloom prediction he made was a dud. Meanwhile, he has made millions out of the renewables industry while still making dubious claims.

“ The point about EV fires I was making relates to the fact that they can’t be extinguished…”

Incorrect.

For your peace of mind, I suggest putting fires out.
https://www.fireextinguisheronline.com.au/blog/post/lithium-ion-battery-fire-extinguishers-a-guide

Other relevant information may be found in your choice of non-selective search engine.

You’ve go to be joking. Attempting to extinguish a lithium battery fire in an EV would be tantamount to trying to extinguish a bushfire with a wet bag.

Capital Retro, you appear to have no idea what you are talking about. From the link I provided (others available), “Lithium Ion Battery Fire Extinguishers can be used to protect a variety of different locations, from data centres, EV charging stations to wind farms, Tesla showrooms, industrial workplace and electrical vehicles.”
Do EV charging stations host no electric vehicles?
Do Tesla showrooms have no electric vehicles?
Are electric vehicles not electric vehicles?

Here is another for the same purposes, available in large and small sizes:
https://evse.com.au/product/lithium-ion-battery-fire-extinguisher/
Read the detail, pick one up while it is still in stock.
I remind you that ICE vehicle fires are 60x as likely as an EV fire. Petrol vapour is explosively flammable, which is why an ICE runs at all.

Phydeaux
I do think we are wasting our time with this one.

Last time CR tried to say that EV fires at dedicated charging stations would be horrific and extremely damaging in the future.

When I pointed out that existing ICE vehicles and petrol stations already regularly have large and damaging fires, he refused to listen nor read any of the actual evidence supplied as to the impact and cost of those petrol caused fires.

EV fire = bad

ICE fire = good

“I think the Big Battery might be more about making a political statement than serving any real purpose.”

Well, this doesn’t really make any sense when these types of batteries have clearly defined network functions providing a valuable service to the grid.

They make money from the provision of that service, typically grid frequency control and short term peak supply.

There is definitely a question whether we will pay a reasonable price for the service but there’s no question about the benefits.

Political statement = bad
Virtue signaling = good.

Renewable energy = bad
More expensive coal = good.

No, I’, not the last and I don’t understand what you mean by suggesting that politicians can make some money by supporting renewables.

Re your father’s coal dust problem, he must live in a third world country because all Australian coal is prior to being loaded on trains, crushed and washed to remove impurities and a high proportion of coal dust and fine particles.

Try again.

We are both right.

Capital my old man lives in Maitland adjacent to the line that brings coal in from the Hunter minefields. Some may say it’s 3rd world, but being Australia it isn’t. Whilst you are right coal is washed before being loaded, it still generates dust which is expelled from uncovered moving trains. Only need to go see the grubby look of the weatherboard houses in the area to see the black dust that covers them. It’s been a problem in the area for many years.

As for pollies making money, you really are living in lala lane if you think the liberal/nationals pushing of coal was not driven by donations and personal investment in that industry. My point about making money is now the renewables industry is making money it’s worth investing in.

Has your father apologised to you and your other family members for being involved with the evil fossil fuel industry for most of his working life?

If he were my father I would be idolizing him.

You must be one of the last people in the country who is still anti anything and everything that isn’t renewable. Even most of members of the COALition government have finally come to their senses and worked out that renewables are the future. Or more to the point they can make some money.

And even my old man, who earned his living for the best part of 50 years driving a coal truck had finally come around too, to the extent he has now installed solar panels on his house. Now he can be heard cursing the very coal dust he has breathed in since birth because the constant parade of passing coal trains is covering his panels!