Yet Another Giralang Shops Development Application

aidan 6 May 2011 24

giralang plan

Another week, another Giralang Shops Development Application. Seems to have less Supermarket and more specialty shops.

We’ll have to see if it can survive the onslaught of the professional objectors, but for now it is live.

ACTPLA welcomes objections and comments from interested parties. If you want the DA to be approved you should put in a submission to that effect.

You will need to detail the nature of your interest in the shop site e.g. resident, user of the shops, family member of a pupil at the school etc. You can submit your feedback in a number of ways:

• Email: app.sec@act.gov.au
• Mail: ACTPLA Applications Secretariat PO Box 365, Mitchell 2911.
• Deliver to: ACTPLA, Ground Floor South, Dame Pattie Menzies House, 16 Challis Street, Dickson

The more submissions the better. If you have a stake in the future of Giralang shops then send in a submission. Your voice does count.


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24 Responses to Yet Another Giralang Shops Development Application
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lostinbias lostinbias 12:40 am 09 Jun 11

I think it’s completely sensible to want LOCAL shops in Giralang, ie. an IGA supermarket and some other ‘local shop’ style stores. We simply don’t need more Woolworths stores. If, for whatever reason, you can’t stand to shop at Kaleen Supabarn (like Giralangian, who also seems to be quick to imply that the staff do a poor job), then there is a rather close-by Woolworths (and a Coles) in Belconnen, and if you’re not keen upon braving the mall and its horde of twelve year old gangstas/gangas, you can also go to Dickson which isn’t unreasonably far either.

Supabarn is not at all anti-competitive. I think its actions in the past couple of years have proven that. Supabarn is expanding and taking risks, not just trying to protect its existing turf.

I suppose we’ll see how this latest DA goes, eh?

Tempestas Tempestas 9:22 pm 07 Jun 11

Interesting that this is back again. The effort required as well as personal & legal risk entered to try to get the current lease holder found in breach of lease (and lets be clear three failed DA’s has got to suggest something) are what makes this so painful.

If there was a reasonable way for the ACT Govt to go with suggestions about re-auctioning the site then that would move things along.

I suspect many residents would rather the site was cleared and re-auctioned, hopefully leading to a viable local shops.

The DA has been a choice between blocks of apartments or an Oversized major Supermarket chain that will ensure Crace/Lawson won’t get a viable supermarket and that Kaleen/MacKellar will lose one of its existing ones.

Maybe the site needs a flat surface with a small number of basic retail to see what happens and then expansion later when the viability is there. Given the vast amount of vacant retail in the ACT at the moment maybe a demolition and clean site is what is really needed now.

smart_b_tch smart_b_tch 5:45 pm 07 Jun 11

The Giralang residents are being used by the developer/Nikass. The developer previously ran the supermarket which closed down. He then leaves the site looking like an eye saw for years on the pretence that there is no other option then a group centre sized Woolworths, complete with basement and travellators.

The developer had two opportunities to go to ACAT and test his design. Withdrew from both. Are the alarm bells ringing yet? Well if they’re not, they will be shortly… Then there is another ACAT proceeding. This one has been brought on by Woolworths against all the residents that objected to ACAT, (including Giralang residents) Kaleen IGA, Supabarn, Evatt IGA, Cotrell etc. etc. but we can’t talk about that can we, because big brother is wwwwatching you.

Like I said the Giralang residents are being used and us residents at Kaleen and Evatt will lose our local centres if this goes ahead.

The Combined Residents Action Association (which apparently, according to CRAC don’t exist, obviously CRAC are taking their own drugs), have been very vocal about their support for a local centre in Giralang…one that is a real local centre…you know the ones where you can park at the door of the supermarket and then go and get your coffee next door… the ones that have limitation on their GFA…you know its those applications that say to the public ‘its only a 1500m2 supermarket’ designed to go to 3000m2… CRAA stand for all residents Kaleen, Giralang and Evatt alike. CRAA want to see a true local centre one that is sustainable and also allows the neighbouring local centres to continue trading, so all residents in the area have their local centre.

The Government should take the site back, design a local centre and put it to the market. Everyone’s a winner…except for big brother w.

poppy poppy 5:45 pm 17 May 11

I really hope this development application gets through this time. If it goes ahead I will never shop at Kaleen supabarn again. Whilst their quality and range is reasonable, their prices are in most cases absolutely ridiculous. And when I go in just to get a few things after work, I find the place absolutely packed and waiting ages in line.

D2 D2 9:56 am 09 May 11

bd84 said :

A NIMBY whinger is all you are.

“NIMBY whinger”: Anyone who objects to the inalienable and God-given right of developers and corporate entities to do what they want, where they want, when they want to whom they want.

Giralangian Giralangian 8:28 am 09 May 11

screaming banshee said :

Perhaps I should have made it more obvious, although I have mentioned my reasons on other threads, my ongoing objection to the proposed development remains that Woolworths is the core tenant.

It sounds like your fight needs to be taken up with the ACCC rather than the battlefields of Giralang.

bd84 bd84 8:23 pm 08 May 11

screaming banshee said :

Perhaps I should have made it more obvious, although I have mentioned my reasons on other threads, my ongoing objection to the proposed development remains that Woolworths is the core tenant. The second shopping centre proposal (3rd proposal over all and just prior to this one) showed the Woolworths GFA reduced with a massive vacant space to the right, it was clear to all and sundry that it wouldn’t take very long before they would expand into that space. Now the proposal has spaces marked as Personal Services? and the Restaurant with the pointy kitchen that once again appear to be simply set aside as room for woolworths future expansion. At the end of the day this proposal is too big for the designated space.

Let me say that the Kaleen butcher and bakery appear to be doing just find. Now, onto why I am opposed to woolworths.

Woolworths use their market dominance to kill off their competitors, with tactics such as loss leading and predatory pricing. The woolworths head office in sydney….on woolworths way….is a massive building full of meeting rooms where they march in their suppliers, screw every last cent out of them and expect them to walk out with a smile on their face. I have worked in an industry that supplies products and services to woolworths, we watched our competition go broke trying to meet their demands and when we wouldn’t we lost a major contract. The following year the business lost 1 million in turnover but profit was up $30k.

The one and only reason the last local shops shut down is because the developer wanted to turn the site into units for a profit. Now that’s been kyboshed they have obvioulsly received quite a offer from woolworths to provide them with an open door into the area. I’m certain if they proposed a shopping centre of a reasonable size, say anywhere over 400sqm up to around 1000sqm, which would then be opened up to all entrants not just the behemoth then there wouldn’t be a problem. If the developer lease holder isn’t prepared to do this then they should have the parcel taken off them and receive the proceeds of the auction for re-leasing the site. I guarantee there will be plenty of other developers interested in getting their hands on the lease.

I would happily throw 100% of my support behind a reasonable proposal for Giralang, and having that shithole sit they way it has for many years would burn me up as a local resident, but I’m opposed to woolworths buying their way in to an inappropriate development.

A NIMBY whinger is all you are. It you want the site to be redeveloped, it will be with a Woolworths supermarket or alternatively you can have the multi-unit residential that was previously proposed. The development should have been approved years ago instead of giving into the people who enjoy complaining for the hell of it and from the anti-competitive Supabarn.

screaming banshee screaming banshee 4:44 pm 08 May 11

Perhaps I should have made it more obvious, although I have mentioned my reasons on other threads, my ongoing objection to the proposed development remains that Woolworths is the core tenant. The second shopping centre proposal (3rd proposal over all and just prior to this one) showed the Woolworths GFA reduced with a massive vacant space to the right, it was clear to all and sundry that it wouldn’t take very long before they would expand into that space. Now the proposal has spaces marked as Personal Services? and the Restaurant with the pointy kitchen that once again appear to be simply set aside as room for woolworths future expansion. At the end of the day this proposal is too big for the designated space.

Let me say that the Kaleen butcher and bakery appear to be doing just find. Now, onto why I am opposed to woolworths.

Woolworths use their market dominance to kill off their competitors, with tactics such as loss leading and predatory pricing. The woolworths head office in sydney….on woolworths way….is a massive building full of meeting rooms where they march in their suppliers, screw every last cent out of them and expect them to walk out with a smile on their face. I have worked in an industry that supplies products and services to woolworths, we watched our competition go broke trying to meet their demands and when we wouldn’t we lost a major contract. The following year the business lost 1 million in turnover but profit was up $30k.

The one and only reason the last local shops shut down is because the developer wanted to turn the site into units for a profit. Now that’s been kyboshed they have obvioulsly received quite a offer from woolworths to provide them with an open door into the area. I’m certain if they proposed a shopping centre of a reasonable size, say anywhere over 400sqm up to around 1000sqm, which would then be opened up to all entrants not just the behemoth then there wouldn’t be a problem. If the developer lease holder isn’t prepared to do this then they should have the parcel taken off them and receive the proceeds of the auction for re-leasing the site. I guarantee there will be plenty of other developers interested in getting their hands on the lease.

I would happily throw 100% of my support behind a reasonable proposal for Giralang, and having that shithole sit they way it has for many years would burn me up as a local resident, but I’m opposed to woolworths buying their way in to an inappropriate development.

Giralangian Giralangian 1:59 pm 08 May 11

screaming banshee said :

Giralangian said :

Charnwood also has a group centre as well as a secondary local shopping centre with Melba and Fraser also having local shopping centres nearby. Ainslie has an IGA of 1,200 m2 in a local shopping centre.

I’m not sure what your point is here, swap Charnwood for Kaleen, Melba for Giralang and Fraser for McKeller, it sounds the same. As for Ainslie I suspect it like Deakin was built long before the group centre designation was thought up.

My point is if you swap Melba for Giralang you need a shopping centre for Giralang. That’s the whole point. It is sustainable if each supermarket is competitive. I am sure Supabarn shed no tears when they took over the fresh fruit and veg store at Kaleen and I am also sure they had little concern for the local butcher and bakery when they introduced those lines.

My point about Ainslie is that this whole “group centre” vs “local centre” is an entirely arbitrary construct. I am not sure when it was thought up but I am sure the fact that Giralang has had a shopping centre for 35 odd years means their residents are also entitled to expect that to continue.

I am not sure what your motive or agenda is here screaming banshee, but mine is to fight for the rights of the residents of Giralang to have a local shops and to expect that any submission brought together by competing parties be based on factual information. I am sick of this rubbish about the proposed supermarket being bigger than Wooworths Belconnen (when it is less than a third of the size) or that the Supabarn is within walking distance of Giralang when it takes a young person 20-50 minutes to walk up and down a number of hills (depending on where in Giralang you live).

The previous centre was mostly abandoned because the owners put no capital into maintaining a reasonable level of service. Say what you want about Woolworths, but at least they will offer security of tenancy and will hold Supabarn accountable for providing a half decent level of service (as my wife and I yet again identified a packet yoghurt 11 days out of date this morning). IGA and Supabarn are fighting their battle on a platform of lies and deception and its outrageous that it has got them this far.

screaming banshee screaming banshee 10:06 pm 07 May 11

Giralangian said :

The Kaleen “group centre” is a very loose application of the term. It has one supermarket and about 10 specialty shops most of which you would expect to find at a normal suburban shopping centre.

Regardless of your impression, it is the designated group centre for the region and in addition to the supermarket plus 15 (by my count) specialty stores and a further 3 vacant shopfronts one of which I expect to be a pizza store very shortly, the tavern, sports club, gym, childcare facility, community centre and 3 churches all form part of the “group centre”, not to mention the Aldi that is reported to be coming shortly.

Giralangian said :

Charnwood also has a group centre as well as a secondary local shopping centre with Melba and Fraser also having local shopping centres nearby. Ainslie has an IGA of 1,200 m2 in a local shopping centre.

I’m not sure what your point is here, swap Charnwood for Kaleen, Melba for Giralang and Fraser for McKeller, it sounds the same. As for Ainslie I suspect it like Deakin was built long before the group centre designation was thought up.

Personally I don’t think things at Supabarn are overpriced and while I have found the odd out of date item I’ve pretty much found the same at any supermarket anywhere in Australia. Even if they are ‘overpriced’ I’m happy to pay a little more for the convenience and to maintain the local shops, same goes for the Kaleen Caltex. I don’t know how the price at the Giralang servo compares, but if any Giralang residents are reading this that appreciate the convenience of a local servo but fill up elsewhere with their f-all cents off vouchers then they have no-one to complain to if the servo shuts down because its not viable any more.

As for Lawson, I expect they will receive another local centre.

Tetranitrate Tetranitrate 6:21 pm 07 May 11

Keijidosha said :

, especially given the proximity to both Gunghalin and Belconnen town centres, not to mention that it is 1km from the larger Kaleen commercial/retail district. Weren’t the existing shops abandoned due to lack of patronage?

No. The owners deliberately ran them down and in the end refused to allow tenants to renew their leases. It went shop by shop as leases expired. The pub in particular was doing very well until they simply blocked form renewing the lease – which pretty much ruined the proprietors who’d spent many years building up the business
At the very end the Vietnamese restaurant remained for something like a year after, still running their restaurant and takeaway business from the otherwise abandoned building.

So no, long story short the shops previously were totally viable, the owners of the centre deliberately ran it down in the hope of flogging it off to developers for re-zoning and apartments.

Giralangian Giralangian 5:40 pm 07 May 11

screaming banshee said :

Giralangian said :

This is even more appalling when you consider the Kaleen Supabarn floor space (1,709 m2) is in fact larger than the proposed Giralang Woolworths.

Do not forget that the supabarn at Kaleen is located in a group centre whereas Giralang and the (equally at a disadvantage yet somehow managing to thrive) Kaleen IGA are both defined as local centres.

The blame for the lack of a viable local centre with supermarket in Giralang lies squarely in the hands of the greedy developer.

The Kaleen “group centre” is a very loose application of the term. It has one supermarket and about 10 specialty shops most of which you would expect to find at a normal suburban shopping centre.

It certainly does not compare with other genuine group centres such as Kippax, Jamison, Mawson and Weston. In any event, Charnwood also has a group centre as well as a secondary local shopping centre with Melba and Fraser also having local shopping centres nearby. Ainslie has an IGA of 1,200 m2 in a local shopping centre.

Given the development of Lawson and Crace and the lack of other alternatives in south Gunghalin it is certainly not beyond the needs of residents to have another competitive supermarket in the region. I am certainly not defending the owner/developer of the site, who is certainly to blame for the predicament we are in but the current Woolworths proposal seems to be a very viable alternative which gives the residents of Giralang, Kaleen, Lawson, McKellar, Evatt and Crace a genuine shopping alternative, because quite frankly I’m getting a bit sick of the inflated prices I pay at Supabarn and I’m getting tired of having to check the use by date of every perishable item to make sure it’s still edible.

screaming banshee screaming banshee 12:38 pm 07 May 11

Giralangian said :

This is even more appalling when you consider the Kaleen Supabarn floor space (1,709 m2) is in fact larger than the proposed Giralang Woolworths.

Do not forget that the supabarn at Kaleen is located in a group centre whereas Giralang and the (equally at a disadvantage yet somehow managing to thrive) Kaleen IGA are both defined as local centres.

The blame for the lack of a viable local centre with supermarket in Giralang lies squarely in the hands of the greedy developer.

Giralangian Giralangian 9:00 am 07 May 11

Keijidosha said :

For sure ’tis a fine looking building but a little on the grand scale for local shops. Underground parking and travellators seem like overkill and only add to my questions about the financial viability of this development, especially given the proximity to both Gunghalin and Belconnen town centres, not to mention that it is 1km from the larger Kaleen commercial/retail district. Weren’t the existing shops abandoned due to lack of patronage?

This is because Giralang residents have been conditioned to expect dilapidated and broken down facilities. Why not have something sophisticated and modern looking, so heaven forbid Giralang gets dragged into the 21st century!

Giralangian Giralangian 8:53 am 07 May 11

What concerns me is the dirty tricks IGA and Supabarn continue to engage in to drum up support against the proposed centre. Getting customers to sign petitions against Woolworths, claiming the proposed development is as large as Belconnen Mall (when it is less than 1/3 the size or 1,500 m2 compared to 4,800 m2).

This is even more appalling when you consider the Kaleen Supabarn floor space (1,709 m2) is in fact larger than the proposed Giralang Woolworths.

(Figures as per ACTPLAs 2009 Background Paper on Supermarket Retailing in the ACT).

Enough is enough. Giralang residents deserve a competitive local shopping centre. Submissions against the proposal based on this blatently misleading information should be rejected.

niftydog niftydog 3:41 pm 06 May 11

screaming banshee said :

I’m curious to know…

I’m curious to know how they fit a restaurant kitchen in the pointy end of a triangle.

screaming banshee screaming banshee 2:37 pm 06 May 11

Its a disgrace that the developer still holds the lease for the property, way back in 2005 or 2006 when they tried for a unit development the govco should have taken control, re-leased it and duly compensated the previous lease-holder.

At the very least the lease-holder should be made to clear or secure the site otherwise be penalised. Looking at it just recently I’m sure it could have been refurbished quite well 5 years ago but know it would appear the only option will be to knock it down and build something that remains appropriate to the local centre designation.

The main difference I could see between the last offering and this one is the pre-amble stating how the poor Nikias family have been trying to do the right thing by Giralang but the nasty evil supabarn empire has thwarted their every warm hearted gesture to the community. Well if supabarn have made it so difficult to compete with a small centre why hasn’t the Kaleen IGA shut down yet.

I’m curious to know how any of the other tenants are to make use of the loading dock area as it will be under woolworths control, and in that case how any other tenants are to gain access to the main switchboard or comms room.

aidan aidan 1:15 pm 06 May 11

sepi said :

I went to giralang fete and I couldn’t believe the state of the shops – it looks like beirut, and right next to the school.

It is a disgrace. It is the Government’s responsibility to put the owner’s feet to the fire about the state of the site. The owner is quite happy for it to be an eyesore, as it puts pressure on the Govt. for a resolution.

The Govt. should have required them to flatten the place once it became obvious it was never going to remain in it’s current configuration and the owners showed they were unwilling to maintain it in a safe manner.

sepi said :

I was also amazed giralang still has a working servo – with a working servo and school right next door, the shops should do really well – if they ever get any actual shops open.

Not only a servo, but a mechanic now as well. Northside Automotive. Used to be in Macquarie I believe.

D2 D2 12:54 pm 06 May 11

Chop71 said :

Specialty shops…..pffff they will be empty from the minute they are constructed. There is this thing called the internet nowdays where people buy stuff.

Can’t be right! All the malls are just row after row of women’s clothing and shoe shops! Their must be an undersupply!

niftydog niftydog 11:48 am 06 May 11

sepi said :

…it looks like beirut…

The place looked a bit like that when it was still trading!

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