8 November 2007

Federal Election Email Interview – Troy Williams, Liberal Candidate for Fraser.

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In our continuing series of Email Interviews with local candidates in the coming Federal Election we bring you Troy Williams – the Liberals Candidate for Fraser.

Troy Williams - Liberal for Fraser

Troy’s responses, in full and unedited, can be found below:

Q1 Provide a short (no greater than 200 word) employment application
style Resume (CV), including what work have you done apart from being
a politician or political staffer or party/union/lobby employee and
what experience or qualifications you have with regards to economic
management?

As CEO of a national trade association, I’ve had the chance to make a substantial contribution to the building profession by providing workplace training opportunities for older workers and graduates from universities. I’ve been able to tackle the challenge of climate change by successfully lobbying for building codes and standards that make our buildings more energy efficient.

Prior to accepting this appointment, I was CEO at the peak professional institute for those with an ownership or management interest in some 165,000 properties (valued at AUD$57billion) falling within a community titles / strata titled scheme in Queensland. During my time as CEO the organisation doubled in size, returned to financial stability and became influential in body corporate law reform.

In other roles I worked with industry and consumers to phase-out the use of chemicals that destroyed the ozone layer and travelled extensively overseas to promote Australia’s success in this area. This was really rewarding work that made a difference.

As a director of several peak industry groups, I’ve had the experience of working with government to ensure that our economy is properly structured to meet future and current challenges. We have spent a lot of time retraining workers to help them take advantage of new employment opportunities.

Q2 What would you like to see as the first piece of legislative change
brought about by your Government? What are your personal goals for
your first year representing the ACT?

Well, I’m fairly certain it won’t be “my” government as it would be pretty unusual to become PM straight from obscurity. However, as a new member I’ll be pushing for programs to further increase the rate of Medicare Bulk Billing in the Fraser electorate. Nationally it’s on the increase and non-referred GP attendances have increased by 10% from 68.2% in 2003/04 to 78.2% in the Jun 2007 quarter. Within Fraser it’s not yet up to the national average and I’ll be working at a local level to build upon the work that’s already been done to date.

Q3 What private opinions do you hold which are different to those of your party? On which issues do you disagree with your Party’s stated position?

Like many in the Coalition, I believe it is time to end discrimination of same-sex couples. The Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission (HREOC) report identified several important steps that should be taken in areas such as superannuation, welfare entitlements, and veterans benefits. The existing arrangements in these areas are not satisfactory.

Q4: Are you in favour of fixed election terms? Why or why not and if so
what length of term are you in favour of and why?

I’m comfortable with the current arrangements and for a long time I’ve held a view that the supremacy of the House of Representatives in deciding the tenure of the Prime Minister, and by implication the Government, must be paramount and on this basis fixed-terms run counter to this philosophy. However, in recent times my thoughts are changing and a three-year fixed term (that maintains the six year term of senators) could be an option so long as there was a mechanism to facilitate an early election if the Government failed to secure a majority in the House or the Senate was obstructionist and a double-dissolution was required. Four year terms for the House are problematic as I believe in the stability that a longer (and split) senate provides, but eight-year Senate terms is too long.

Q5: Do you think that it is important for the Prime Minister and their
family to live in Canberra? Why or why not?

If I’m elected as the MP for Fraser I’ll certainly be encouraging the Prime Minister to spend the majority of his time here in Canberra. However, like every other member of parliament the PM has a local community to represent so it’s not unreasonable that he remain accessible to the neighbourhood he represents and, most importantly, his family.

Q6 Do you consider that making observations about the structure and
makeup of the other major political party as beneficial to your own
party’s role in the election?

Sure, where there are fairly obvious flaws in the composition of the alternative Government. Around 70% of Labor’s front bench are union officials but only 15% of the private-sector workforce belong in a union. It seems that the only way to get ahead in Labor is to have a union background. For example, Labor had a farmer in the party, but he got booted out to make way for a senior union guy.

It’s no different in the seat of Fraser. The current member was a union official in Western Australia, then a party official there and later nationally before heading to the Senate, then off to the Seat of Canberra finally coming to rest in the Seat of Fraser. I don’t think he’s actually ever held a normal job in his life.

Q7 What are your thoughts on the permanent trading of water entitlements,
as per The National Water Initiative, and do you believe that
giving water a tradable, economic value is really the best method to
ensure that this scare Australian resource will be utilised sensibly
in the future?

The days where people used to use water to clean paved areas (rather than sweeping with a broom) and leave the running when washing the car are long gone. We need a balance of regulated and economic measures to encourage people to use less water.

It all makes sense and I’m all in favor of providing an economic incentive to save water so long as domestic residences (i.e. the water we use in our homes) are quarantined from commercial trading arrangements. It’s great news that a re-elected Coalition Government will help secure the future reliability of ACT and Queanbeyan water supplies by transferring ownership of Googong Dam to the ACT Government with the condition that Queanbeyan will receive a dedicated entitlement from the Dam.

Q8 Canberra has a large student population and Govt funding per capita
for public education facilities seems to be on the slide with there
being an apparent shift towards encouraging more people to enter the
private education sector. What are your thoughts on this?

Insofar as Commonwealth funding of schools is concerned the question is based upon a false premise because funding has increased. At a local level, I’ll be an effective advocate for our primary and secondary schools and I understand the harm that ACT Labor’s school closures have caused – in my final year of college my own school was closed by a state Labor government. The Coalition Government has used the dividend of a strong economy to:

* Increase federal funding for State schools by 70% in real terms since 1996, while enrolments have increased by 1.2% over that time.
* Provide funding for specific purposes, such as the $1.2 billion Investing in Our Schools Programme and the $1.8 billion Literacy, Numeracy and Special Learning Needs Programme.

An important fact that is often overlooked is that 67% of students are in State Government schools and receive 75% of total taxpayer funding.

What initiatives would you pursue in regard to HECS fees, full fee
paying uni courses, increasing/decreasing Austudy payments, funding
for education/ R&D/communications infrastructure and assistance or
encouragement to private sector research and technology companies?

When it comes to research and development funding, the “Backing Australia’s Ability” initiative provides $5.3billion over seven years to support local research. The Cooperative Research Centres (CRC) provide a opportunities for universities and the private sector to collaborate on research and translate it for use by our community.

Small business undertaking research benefits through the “Commercial Ready” program that aims to stimulate greater innovation and productivity growth in the private sector by providing around $200 million per year in competitive grants to small and medium-sized businesses (SMEs). A wide range of project activities can be supported, extending from initial research and development (R&D), through proof of concept, to early-stage commercialisation activities.

University finding now stands at around $8.5billion which is much better than the $5billion Labor was funding when it left office. The recent allocation of $6 billion into the “Higher Education Endowment Fund” provides additional ongoing funding for capitals works and, importantly, this initiative allows individuals and companies to contribute to the fund too, providing opportunities for further growth.

What measures will you take to ensure the best possible education is
available to all Australians?

I like choice in our education system in which a properly funded and resourced public education system is augmented by the private school sector. We need to provide a system of incentives to reward the really good teachers that takes into account external parameters such as the past performance of the students and schools.

Q9 What’s the single most pressing issue in your electorate (local
electorate issue – not a broader issue that has an impact on your
electorate) and how do you plan on addressing it?

Security of our water supplies is arguably the most important issue and I’ve already referred to the transfer of the Googong Dam.

Unlike other capital cities we can’t just whack up a desalination plant so we need to increase the roll-out of water efficient toilets, shower roses and taps in our existing homes and offices and further enhance measures to further reduce water consumption. In my current role I’ve been involved in some fairly exciting projects that work towards these objectives and I’d welcome the opportunity to use my expertise in this area to facilitate legislative change.

Q10 Suppose that you and I are stuck in an elevator for 5 minutes. You
know nothing about me other than I’m enrolled to vote in your
electorate. What do you say to convince me to vote for you.

Well first I’d press the alarm button or call the maintenance company – a fairly practical step.

Normally I just start singing Herman’s Hermits “Henry VIII” over and over again which normally makes people give in – my singing has that effect, for better or worse. However, I’ll accept that this tactic is probably not going to win me the seat, unless we get some very large speakers and rig them up everywhere.

Seriously though, politicians often talk way too much and a five minute speech from me wouldn’t be all that exciting, my dog can attest to that having listened to me practice several. Being a parliamentary representative means helping our community, so the first thing is to develop an understanding of what’s important to the poor sod I’m stuck in an elevator with. I’d explain that over more than a decade I’ve been working with employees and employers to develop workplace training opportunities, foster sustainable development and help business to meet the challenges of global warming. This is practical experience that is relevant to people’s every day lives and has really allowed me to understand issues that many locals face. We would discuss opportunities to address affordable housing, delivering more effective health care.

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Troy went up several notches in my opinion when he congratulated McMullan and said (paraphrase) the electorate will be ok, McMullan is a decent man.

That should have read ” That is just it, there…..”

That just there is nothing wrong with having union representation in the labor party – BUT its a mono-culture, you MUST be a union member to join Australia’s predominant social democratic party.

How can a party profess freedom of association and then not act on it with their own organisation.

How can it critise closed shops and yet not have one non-union member?

I would love to know which unions each of the front benchers are members of.

nemo- unions are not only interested in their own survival; in the past week i have seen the union i’m covered by stand up for a worker who was wrongly told they were unable to obtain compensation for an workplace injury and stand up a very young staff member who was counsled over a matter the agreement specifically prohibited. thats just one week in one workplace.
what exactly is the issue with having union representation in the labor party? all being a union offical shows is that you are willing to sacrifice potentially higher incomes in order to protect vulnerable workers. I’d much rather see a government composed of people willing to protect the ideals of a fair go, fair pay and conditions and safe workplaces than the current mob who think it’s okay to tell blatant lies to the australian people. the liberal party and it’s leadership are ethically bankrupt.

Unions are only interested in their own survival.

My partner was a member of the CPSU for 14 years (god knows why), last year he sought their help with an issue. His first three or four attempts to get assistance resulted in no reply at all. In frustration he wrote asking what he was paying union fees for and whether he would be better leaving the union. The only response he got was instructions on how to quit – they didn’t even mention the issue at all.

Dont think they will rush to your assistance if you need them. They are all about self preservation.

The fact is that the word encouraged is made redundant by the state constitutions that make it a requirement.

IE You cannot join the labor party without being the member of a union. That is the Labor party itself is a closed shop. Despite saying “Labor does not and will not have a policy of closed shops. Labor supports the rights of working Australians to join or not join a union”

So those that believe in social democracy, but also freedom of association (non-association) can only join loopy extreme parties or the Liberal parties.

The main point of the Libs is the level of influence the unions have over the Labor Party – the fact is that 100% of members are unionists.

BTW – which union is Kevin07 a member of? In that case Garrett, Swan, Gillard, Lundy, Ellison, Stanhope, McMullin anyone know?

In balance I would be interested to see what restrictions the Libs, Nationals, greens and Dems put on membership.

what exactly does the fact that you have to be a member of a union (if there is an appropriate union) to be a member of the labor party have to do with anything? Mr williams lies in his statement. Mr howrad lied during his campaign launch. In doing so they showed themselves and the party they represent to be ethically bankrupt. Simple as that.

Err, strike the first “do not” from the last sentence.

You are missing the entire *point* of organised labour – which is that unions only have the power to protect their members that are in a weak position through collective action of their fellow workers, including those that are currently in a strong position.

It’s the fact that even those people who were doing OK were prepared to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with their colleagues who weren’t that made the whole idea of organised labour work. The “I’m-all-right-Jack” mentality is anathema to unionism because it leaves workers susceptible to divide-and-conquer tactics. After all, if a union only represents those workers who are currently in trouble, then it’s not going to have much bargaining power to help them, is it?

Now that we have hopefully established why it is that universalism is a key historical underpinning of organised labour, it should be obvious why “Members of the Party are encouraged to be members of a union or to employ union labour”.

The policy statements on IR reflect the way that the ALP says it would govern the country, as opposed to governing the Party. It does not seem, to me, to be inconsistent to be saying in effect “The ALP believes it is a moral essential to join a union / employ union labour, but does not believe it should be made illegal not to.” This is analagous something like “I do not believe it is immoral to gamble, but I do not believe it should be made illegal.”.

I went to the constitution of the ALP and found the membership rules. Note to the best of my research (and I am prepared to be corrected) – All State and Territory constitutions required union membership – REMEMBER ONLY 15% of the Australian population is a union member.

“Membership

Membership of the ALP is open to all residents of Australia who are prepared to accept its objectives and who have associations with no other political party or proscribed organisation. This right to join shall not be impaired other than in circumstances in which it can be demonstrated clearly that an individual cannot meet the requirement outlined above.
Members of the Party are encouraged to be members of a union or to employ union labour. State and Territory Branch rules should require members of the Party to be members of a union or to employ union labour to the maximum extent permitted by law.
To further encourage union members to join the Party, State and Territory Branches should offer discounts in membership subscriptions for members of affiliated unions.”

Then compare this requirement with the policy statements:

Gillard National Press Club: “It (IR Policy) gives people a totally free choice about whether or not to join a union. If you join that’s fine. If you don’t that’s fine.”

Independent Contractors Assoc Q&A (2/10/07):

“Question: Will the ALP outlaw clauses in industrial instruments that prohibit, restrict or control the use of
independent contractors?
ALP reply: Labor does not and will not have a policy of closed shops. Labor supports the rights of working Australians to join or not join a union.”

Thetruth is they talk the talk, but don’t really believe in it

I kinda agree – but then I heard Rudd and Swan claiming that the 11 years of uninterupted economic sunshine was the result of Hawke / Keating.

If the labor party is the party of organised labor then it should have about 15% of the vote. This attitude of ownership is what is wrong with it.

I can have solidarity of purpose without joining a union – it is the 21st century you know.

I find any comparison with the current Labour team presenting for Government against the performance of the Hawke/Keating and earlier governments simply a parting shot from a defeated opposition.

There are many reasons, but most notably it has been over a decade since that time. Dwelling on the past…

If this is the way that the Coalition want to present themselves, then they really haven’t moved on at all and are unworthy of representing the people who are trying to live in this decade.

You don’t need a “union background” to join the ALP, but you do need to be a member of the appropriate union for your line of work, if there is one. This is because the entire underpinning of organised labour is solidarity, and if you don’t believe in solidarity it makes little sense for you to be joining the party of organised labour.

tom tom – try and join the ALP without a union background. hell there was a time there that your father had to be a former minister in the Whitlam Government before you could lead it!

I would love to join the ALP, but it has not moved with the times. It is going in the right direction, but I fear that the old ways are just under the surface and have not been removed.

Health – Feds do not have to answer for poor performance states do because they run them. Who in the NSW government has got up and said sorry? We must make them accountable or they will all blame shift. I note that you instantly absolved the state government, by blaming the Feds. This is why they are crap – because we do not hold those responsable accountable. THE STATES RUN HOSPITALS – AND THEY DO IT BADLY!!

DoCS failed failed failed – THEY ARE CHARGED WITH PROTECTION THEY WERE AWARE AND THEY FAILED!!!!!

DR Death WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON!!!!!!!! READ THE ACCOUNTS OF THE NURSES. THE STATE GOVERNEMT FAILED!!!!!!!

Immigration – THE HOWARD GOVERNMENT HAS ALSO FAILED!!!

In 1966 Herbert Opperman abolished immigration on the basis of race – anything else

Might I suggest that we would be much better served if we stopped looking at politics as barracking for football teams and started looking at the complexity of the issues and hold people who are responsible accountable

nemo- you’re the defender of the 70% of ALP frontbenchers being trade unionists lie (I deliberately use the term ‘trade unionists’ as thats how our beloved leader described them in his campaign launch, a description which is demonstrably false, a fact which i dare say mr Howard is well aware of) and yet your accusing me of lacking facts; does the word hypocrite mean much to you? the liberals did pick on the sudanese refugees the liberals did push through unfair workplace laws. the liberals did lie to us over children overboard, ethanol and keeping interest rates low. The liberals did let education funding drop below OECD standards. That enough facts?
What i’m saying is emotive. It’s also true.

What did the liberal/national governments do in regards to removing these policies? nothing Mr Truth. As for who is accountable, granted the Pm may be at the head of the pile, but as I am sure that you know, policyt decisions usually more than one hand in the air in a democracy.

As for your call about state govt mismanagement of a few issues, lets looks at these (Govt economic records nothwithstanding – crap at maths therefore steer clear of that gear):

mismanagement of hospitals in states: state and federal govts are overly burdonesome and bureacratic in regards to health service delivery, and as it currently written, the feds have more to answer in regards to how they allocate funding i.e. into marginal seats, and not according to demographics in most cases.

DoCS / Dean Shillingworth: IMHO – skirting the small fact of responsible parenting. Govts cant teach, or be held accountable for bad parenting. This is a community, grassroots, societal issue.

Dr Death: Again, the licensing and compentency of Overseas Trained Doctors is handled by the Federal Govt and whichever speicalist college they apply to in order to be able to practice in Australia.

Granted it is an election period, but at least try to appear bipartisan when attempting to deliver a coherent logical argument.

It is worth noting in the historic sense that the white Australia policy was most vigorously defended by the Labor party. The Curtin Government sent a communique to the US requesting that no Afro-American soldiers be sent to Australia. Arthur Calwell deported non-British refugees from Australia after the war (while Harold Holt allowed 800 to enter the country, including Japanese war brides). It was only really Whitlam Government that signified that Labor was now on the anti-White Australia Policy – most of the breakthrough reforms were the Libs and predecessors.

The citizen test is neither here nor there – most countries have one. The big ticket items here are still Tampa, Children Overboard, deporting and imprisioning Australian citizens, stopping immigration on the basis of integration instead of focusing on helping people to integrate. The immigration story is very poor on the part of this Government.

I think we should hold the appropriate peole to account on issues – Howard needs to be made accountable for this.

Labor needs to be held accountable for its history of economic mismanagement, mismanagement of hospitals in the states, failure to protect children like the young child that starved to death, Dean Shillingworth, peole having miscarriages in tiolets, Dr Death and vicotian police/ union corruption.

Agreed Sepi. its amazing how easy the first fleet is forgotten when it is convienient. Granted it was 200 odd years ago, but it still should be fresh in our minds, particularly those peanuts on the former bench in light of the who-ha over the ‘citizenship test’. White Australia policy folks? or another shot at showing the red neck to stop their queen Pauline Hanson taking a bite out of the Farmers vote in QLD?

Here’s a fact. Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has stopped the Sudanese migration program, claiming the Sudanese do not fit in to Australian – because one Sudanese boy was murdered by white Australian boys.

Minister Andrews was brought in to toughen up imigration, after Amanda Vanstone did her best to make it a fairer place.

So now it is impossible for Sudanese refugees to reach Australia, except as illegal migrants. (They can’t be queue-jumpers, as there is no queue for them to join.)

I find this government an ambarrasment.

The using minority charge I have to agree with – this government has definitly used that, as well as snatching australian citizens off the street, locking them up and deporting them.- very big cross and we should politically hang them for it.

Workchoices – we will end up there. This is the first election that I can remember that will won by the opposition saying we will anti-reform (ie take us back). It will cost jobs at the low skill end, no doubt.

I worry in this election that we have been run and won without a serious appraisal of the oppositions policies. This election has been style over substance and the fact that labor has given the senate to the greens is not going to be good – at least the dems had people like Lees, Chip and powel. Brown has made the Green party his own little dicatorship (no talk of leadership in that party – who would dare challenge the demi-god himself)

I’d have to agree with Tom-Tom on this, Nemo. The present government has shown a remarkable tendency to reach for the dog whistle when in trouble, and to pander to the worst of us.

As to the workplace laws, I am old enough to remember our present PM talking on campus as a very new politician, and even at that stage he was obsessed with the share of money going to wages as opposed to profit. Whatever his good points, and I’m sure he has some, this obsession looks like it might bring him down this time. Whether his party wins or loses, he is finished.

“they pick on minority groups like sudanese refugees as a way of political point scoring or force through unfair workplace laws in order to pay back their big buisness mates? “

You have no facts, just emotive rubbish.

nemo- by saying that abbott hockey et al have grown up are you referring to the way they pick on minority groups like sudanese refugees as a way of political point scoring or force through unfair workplace laws in order to pay back their big buisness mates? and when you say gillard and macklin and the rest are still fromulating student union policies do you mean policies such as increased education funding, action on climate change and standing up for the rights of ordianiry workers?
geez, wonder which group sounds more mature and grown up. You really dont like it when your B.S. gets called do you?

sally – also my experience. Love to join the party as a social democrat BUT I will not be forced to join a union in order to participate.

I believe this is the reason that labor will continue to decline over the long term. The Hawke Wran Review was spot on the money. A Rudd victory will only delay the inevidable. Watch union membership rise in the short term – jobs for those workers continue to go overseas construction become more expensive through union control and general international competitiveness fall.

Anyone tried to join the Labor party lately?

I tried to join a couple of years ago and because I was a public servant and not a member of the union I had my membership application rejected.

It appears that the ALP is 100% union driven rather than just having 70% ex-union officials on the front bench.

Whilst I wont be voting for Tory Williams (yes – intentional misspelling), his mob do have a valid point about the union control.

Lets get to the nub of the issue – the percentage of unions is neither here nor there. The debate over the number is a union hack job to deflect the fact that the labor Party is the lacky of a single group. This was found to be a weakness in the hawke Wran review. Crean tried to implement the reviews finding by reducing the influence of the unions within the party.

BUT the unions showed their muscle by bumping crean – in a desprite attempt to implement the changes and keep the Crean forces in power the Latham option was played. – as he managed to split some of the union vote from Beazley.

Beazley knew that his best chance laid with the union vote and after the 2004 election he gained the ascendancy with the backing of the unions and became their puppet (unable to move for fear of losing their support) – He and the unions then set about to destroy Latham and ensure the reformers could never get up again (with some help from Latham himself and Swan, Gillard and others).

Beazley was too constrained and compromised to ever chanllenge Howard so some smarties from the anti-reformers were prepared to split from the Beazley camp and play a compromise Rudd / Gillard ticket.

They hope that they will have enough sway to let the unions back into everyday Australian life, because Howard has been very effective at destroying their influence.

So Howard is playing the connections which only mean something to the people who were around when a union rep was on every committee, advisory board or decision making entity in the country.

Tom Tom- the difference is that Hockey et al grew up, unlike Gillard and Macklin who formulate policy like they’re still running the Student Union.

Since when were unions a bad thing? Unions are groups of workers looking after each other so they don’t get done by powerful people with vested and narrow interests.

also a significant number of liberal ministers belong to and acted as officals for professional associations; otherwise known as white collar unions. wonder why troy failed to mention this in his little speil about the evils of having unionists in the labor party?

so what if julia gillard was a memeber of a student union, i think you’ll find so were a significant percentage of all pollies were, the names joe hockey and tony abbot certainly spring to mind…. and didn’t gazza humphries tout his own involvement in a student union on these very pages?

CanberraGreen. Yeah, you’re right, it’s not OK to lie, and I shouldn’t have. The lib’s smear and fear campaign is driving me crazy though. I’m off now … I gotta take my medication.

CanberraGreen6:53 pm 11 Nov 07

Crank’s last sentence says it all. Over and out.

CanberraGreen6:29 pm 11 Nov 07

We should stop tormenting Fluges, it’s unfair to do this to the mentally disabled. Anybody who says that “I don’t find this cavalier disregard for the truth a particularly admirable quality” yet then argues that if one person lies it’s ok for him to do so is clearly unhinged. I’m not wasting any more time on him.

Can I express my displeasure at the increasingly shrill ‘Unions are Going to Ruin the World as We Know it’ adverts from team Liberal. They have become self defeating, creating anger instead of agreement.

I have yet to see a positive Liberal ad in this campaign.

Troy, Gazza and the Libs have had 11 years to spend the money they are promising now. And then we have to assume the promise is one of the very few ‘core promises’ that get up.

Gaz and Troy, you may well be a nice blokes, but you keep lousy company.

nemo- of course the liberal party website is the most accurate source of information on the workings of the labor party…. if your going to add sources you might want to pick less obviously biased ones; otherwise you look like an idiot.
besides that what does it matter if a MP was a union official; all that demonstrates is that they have already shown themselves to willing to sacrifce potentially higher personal incomes in order to protect other ordinairy working people.
I also wish to take issue with mr william’s statetment that only 15% of the private sector workforce is a member of a trade union; while correct this is misleading, the figures for the toatl workforce are significantly higher; while the totals for the public sector, ie the sector government would spend most time working with are again significantly higher.
Troy, if the best you can offer the people of fraser is a bizarre scare campiagn backed up by misleading us of statistics you dont deserve a single vote.

You may want to familiarise yourself with the link at the bottom of the following page titled ‘labor-union lies’.

http://www.liberal.org.au/rol/unioncontrol.php

Then try and tell me that the Labor party dont manipulate the truth to suit their own agenda.

Fluges, I didn’t say she was a ‘trade’ union official. For someone who is accusing others of manipulating the truth, you seem to be doing a lot of it yourself.

The Liberal party website says “70% of Labor’s front bench are former union officials. ” No mention of ‘trade’ there either.

http://www.liberal.org.au/rol/unioncontrol.php

Perhaps you need to do your sums again.

BeyondThought4:27 pm 11 Nov 07

I got a bit carried away there.

No, you forgot to blame Williams for extinction of the dinosaurs, 9/11, the holocaust, the fall of the Roman empire and the end of the Cosby Show.

You are pathetic, you really are.

I should clarify that I am not accusing Williams of price fixing, I got a bit carried away there. The point I was trying to make is that if it’s OK for the libs to make wild accusations and play fast and loose with the truth throughout their fear campaign, then we should all have a go.

Nemo. The Australian Union of Students is not a trade union. Just like the Australian Rugby Union is not a trade union. The Australian Institute for Building – now, that’s more like a trade union.

BeyondThought. Are you comparing Williams with Oppenheimer? If Oppenheimer were alive today, he’d be a member of the Nuclear Disarmament Party. He was a Communist who passionately advocated the cause of nuclear disarmament and who suffered greatly as a result. Troy, of course, is an advocate for the nuclear industry.

Well, considering it wasn’t the point I was making Fluges, I’ll just say that she was involved with the Australian Student Union at one point I think, but I’ll leave it for an acknowledged union expert and historian like yourself to check. Gillard supporters do know how to use google don’t they?

Thanks Nemo. So you also agree that Gillard’s not a union official. Cheers.

Perhaps Communist sympathiser (and liar) would be a more appropriate description of Julia.

BeyondThought8:59 am 11 Nov 07

Fluges, you can’t help yourself can you??? Why do you make unsubstantiated comments like he hasn’t put much effort into anything much when most of the candidates are spending months away from whatever it is they do to fight an election that McMuppet is going to win anyway. Well, Williams along with the other candidates took the time to respond so people like you can make unfounded attacks on their reputations. You will accuse the guy of hate crimes next, I’m sure you have a list you are working through.

There is no need for Williams to defend himself from all of your insults that are without foundation? If you had met Williams fine, but you said you haven’t and also said that you don’t want to, yet you clearly feel entitled to make up any sort of rubbish then demand a response. Bloody cheek!

It’s people like you who turn good people off getting involved in politics. Gungahlin Al said it all And that is the thing I have *almost* always found with people who are brave enough to put their hands up for political positions – good people, with hearts in the right places. Well said, Gungahlin Al.

Fluges, go and play with all of your mates in the Nuclear Disarmament Party that you find so “inspirational”. Pitty Oppenheimer and Teller are gone, you could try and trash their reputations.

to sort of read out
Thanks for the response JR. The stupidity of team Liberals to expect that (and thus the word demand) that respective party platforms would be read out is just bewildering.

Gungahlin Al5:57 pm 10 Nov 07

WordPress’s $#@**! password reminder has defeated me yet again, so apologies if this comes out as yet another ID change for Gungahlin Al…

It’s a shame when fools choose to attack the person rather than the topic – the whole debate just takes a nosedive, and from what I’ve seen over the couple of years on RA, it’s the best thread killer there is. But it does show the fool for the pratt they are, and everyone else then starts to ignore them…

Anyway, as to the merits of different candidates for Fraser and for ACT Senate positions, I have been impressed by all the candidates who have talked with GCC, either at the Meet the Candidates night or those who have previously attended our meetings (i.e. Bob, Troy, Kerrie). All have the best intentions for their role if successful, and while one may or may not agree with their party’s stance on national issues, they are all solidy in touch with what our area needs. They have been listening to concerns we been putting out there about Gungahlin, so thanks to them all.

And that is the thing I have *almost* always found with people who are brave enough to put their hands up for political positions – good people, with hearts in the right places. It is such a pity that the media we have today has done such an effective job of training us as a population to:
1/ only absorb the headline or grab, never the body text
2/ always think the worst of all politicians

It’s ironic then that the average person actually tends to hold journos in lower regard than politicians!

Greentrees, sorry, but I don’t know what LMFAO means. The ITAB reference was a bit below the belt, I admit, but I’ve sat on these committees and I’ve seen the young employer reps perform. They don’t contribute very much.

I didn’t say ITABs are great, by the way. I said they’d been “effectively scuppered by the Howard government.”

As to whether responding to me is worth Troy’s effort, I seems to me that he hasn’t put much effort into anything much, besides rehash liberal party spin (I suppose these lib candidates get some sort of a kit from HQ). This guy is asking people to vote for him, he should be able to present, and defend, his own position.

Someone call Fluges’ nurse, I think he’s been skipping his medication again… either that or he talks shit naturally.

I’m sure the idiots of Fraser, like fluges, will be out in force again voting for a guy who hasn’t been seen for 3 years and hasn’t done a thing for his electorate.. Come to think of it I don’t think I’ve even seen him in this election campaign either?! I would be seriously looking at other candidates like Troy and the other candidates (no idea who they are??) who may actually give a shit about their electorate.

Jonathon Reynolds2:45 pm 10 Nov 07

Whilst many contributors to the the RiotACT engage in healthy and “robust” debate in the comments to particular articles published, unfortunately in this instance the Gungahlin Community Council Inc. needs to ensure the protection of its own interests under Section 329 of the Commonwealth Electoral Act.

Contrary to what has been asserted, no candidate demanded that speeches be read out on their behalf at the Gungahlin Community Council Meet the Federal Candidates Event.

In fact the actual quotation made by Alan Kerlin, President of the Gungahlin Community Council relation to the alleged comment was:

“Now I have had a request from both Troy Williams and Gary Humphries about whether they can circulate a summary of their positions on the things Gungahlin. I don’t know that we have enough time to sort of read out several hundred words from each, and I am not sure that that is entirely fair… but I have discussed with the executive of the GCC and prepared to extend an offer to all candidates that they can submit five hundred words, no more, to us and we will publish it on our website.” (transcription from video available from the GCC website)

We trust that this suitably clarifies the matter.


Jonathon Reynolds 
Vice President 

Gungahlin Community Council Inc 
PO Box 260 Gungahlin, ACT 2912 
e vicepresident@gcc.asn.au
w http://www.gcc.asn.au

CanberraGreen10:06 am 10 Nov 07

LMFAO –

Fluges says he never wants to meet Williams but demands Troy respond. Fluges says ITABs are great but won’t put his involvement on his CV. I love this guy’s logic.

Troy, don’t respond to this old codger, he’s not worth the effort.

Nemo, it is obvious that I’m not in the least concerned that 60% of the ALP front bench have once worked for a union. Why should anybody be scared of that, unions are the good guys. I’m not concerned that Brendan Nelson was once president of a union either. I am concerned that the libs persist in saying the figure is 70%, when it’s not. It’s the main feature on Troy’s website. Constantly repeating something that is untrue is called lying. Why should anybody vote for a bunch of liars?

For Godsake, Howard sent the country to war and lied to the Australian people about the reason for doing so, while turning a blind eye to kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein to ensure wheat sales. And what did he have to say about that? ‘I cannot recall,’ ‘I don’t recollect,’ ‘I wasn’t informed,’ ‘I can’t remember,’ ‘I have no recollection of that.’ It’s all on the public record. From the libs we’ve had 11 years of lies, deception, manipulation, scandals, sleaze, corruption and public policy failure.

But, never mind all that, all I’m trying to do here is ask Troy why the predominant feature on his website (http://www.liberal.org.au/locallib/troywilliams/) is a bald-faced lie. Oh, and I’ve also called his CV and his answers above into question. I’m sorta expecting him to respond to me. I might be an old codger (I was working for a liberal minister before you were born Troy) but I’m under the impression that these forum things (or is it a blog, I dunno) are meant to be interactive? Or are we supposed to read Troy’s lies and then just sorta talk among ourselves?

BeyondThought8:54 am 10 Nov 07

Nemo has a point in Fluges, if unions are as great as you would have us believe in your original post, why are you so concerned that the Libs claim 70% of the shadow front bench are officials?. Wouldn’t it be something to be proud of?

Fluges, get a grip dude .. you are one bitter person, are all ALP / union officals so?

If you could mount a creditable argument you would not need to insult people in the way that you do. It says a lot about you, it really does.

Since you seem preoccupied with Williams’ role as a CEO his background wasn’t hard to find online. He’s the CEO of the Australian Institute of Building which is one of the more prestigious professional institutes with a Royal Charter. They built that office building ‘Construction House’ on Northborne Avenue. Presumably the Directors did their due dilligence when appointing Williams to a plum job at quarter-mil ya year.

**Sigh** Sit back and see what new baseless accusations Fluges can come up with.

I hear a lot about Gungahlin issues, however it would be nice to see Troy campaigning in Belconnen also.

I’ve lived in the Fraser electorate for a number of years and have never seen Bob McMullan.
It would be nice to have a local member who actually gets out and listens to the concerns of the community they represent.

Fluges, if unions are as great as you would have us believe in your original post, why are you so concerned that the Libs claim 70% of the shadow front bench are officials?

Troy. I see from the http://www.gcc.asn.au Youtubing intro to Meet the Robinsons, opps candiates, you did not attend and demanded that a 500 word speech be read out. Oh good I wish it had been. I listened to Kerrie Tucker drone on for 9 minutes on climate change. I think she even blamed her siler hair on that too.

It’s a bit rich for Team Troy to have a go at me for calling Troy a dickhead, as part of a valid question about why he’s persisting with the 70% LIE. What about the people who did nothing more than ridicule the shape of Troy’s head for Godsake? (Hey Mat, if you’re reading this, I’d take real offense if somebody compared the shape of my head with that of Troy’s.)

Now, Troy, I’ve never met you, and hopefully I’ll never have to, but I know your type only too well. I was a director of an ITAB myself once, pre-Howard. For the others, they were tripartite committees formed by an ALP government to advance the ALP’s training reform agenda, before it was effectively scuppered by the Howard government. Directors were appointed to represent their various employer or employee organisations. The positions were unpaid and, as the Boards only met two or three times a year, not very onerous. I certainly don’t list my previous ITAB membership on my CV.

I stand by my accusation that your responses to the questions are nothing more than cut ‘n pastes from lib ‘policy documents’ that are, in themselves, rehashes of old lib-spun press releases. The education figures you’re using are smoke ‘n mirrors stuff. The $6 billion HEEF is one case in point. On the most optimistic estimates, this will generate perhaps $300 million a year, to be spread over 42 universities, minus whatever hefty fees are extracted by the American finance company, based in Singapore, that will be appointed by Howard, through one of his lackey’s like David Murray (I guess Richard Pratt’s out of the picture now) to administer the fund and invest in God-knows-what unethical schemes are around. It’s ineffective trickle-down funding. Each university will get far less than the Rugby League Hall of Fame! If you knew anything about the Higher Education sector, Troy, you’d know that all the VC’s regard HEEF as a complete joke, along with all of Howard ‘s Higher Education initiatives, in general. And to cite BAA, geez, give us a break. That was announced in May 2001, and the sector hasn’t exactly prospered since then …

Speaking of Higher Education by the way, Troy, your CV is unusual in that it doesn’t mention your educational qualifications. Did you go to school, or did you start your life by having some CEO business cards printed up? Your CV is particularly unhelpful on this point. I’ve seen a lot of CV’s, and yours is as good a piece of spin as I’ve ever seen. It’s the sort of CV you have when you don’t really have that much to sell.

Hope to hear from you personally Troy. I assume the whole point of this exercise is to enable you to be able to engage with people who take the trouble to respond to your public position.

I don’t think it is at all reasonable to call a lawyer who has had unions as clients a union official.

Hmmm, Fluges seems to be wrong.

At the risk of getting abused by him, he said that fully 40% of the Labor front bench have never held union office or worked for a union and in so doing conveniently overlooking that Julia Gillard was a union lawyer, presumably paid for the task.

Fluge’s abuse is bad enough, criticising somebody for being less than truthful while being caught out being a liar is just sad.

BeyondThought9:57 am 09 Nov 07

…just a dickhead

Why is it Fluges resorts to insults and thinks it’s ok for him to make unsubstantiated statements like party hack or dodgy figures but doesn’t take the time to substantiate them. How is Williams a party hack, by simply being a member? I’d suggest Fluge is simply a grumpy Labor hack unable to mount an argument without resorting to insults.

Does it actually matter whether unions comprise 23%, 60% or 70% given that only 15% or thereabouts of the private sector workforce belong to a union. Incidentially, a quick check of the parliament website shows that two-thirds of ACT Labor federals members are union officials (two of three, hardly representative).

At least Williams is having a go and making an effort …

He looks like Robocop without his helmet.

I still don’t understand what a split infinitive is.

I may allow, grudgingly to adverbially split an infinitive, but NEVER with an adjective. The particular problem arises when “better” is used because English has no way of dfeciding if it is an adverb or adjective except by its position. Thus “to better educate the cretin” means in the first instance that the education itself is deficient not its application to the cretin.

English is a positional language. That is what was caned into us old curmudgeons!

Or 23% depending on how you value the label.

thats 60% too many imo

The thing about percentages is that they are easy to change depending on your classification of the sample set.

Jazz, the ‘proof’ is as simple as being able to add up, or hit the % key on your calculator:

Only 23% of the front bench have held positions in trade unions senior enough to merit the use of the word “boss” (a person in authority). Another 37% have held junior positions or been union employees – in some cases only briefly and/or many years ago. Fully 40% of the Labor front bench have never held union office or worked for a union. This 40% includes Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan, Steven Smith, Peter Garrett and Robert McClelland.

I’d like a response from Troy the Boy, btw.

goes both ways doesnt it Fluges? Where’s your proof that 70% of the shadow front bench AREN’T union officials

Mr Williams, why do you keep repeating the lie that 70% of the shadow front bench are union officials? This figure has been proven to be untrue, yet you libs keep promulgating the lie. As you lie about lots of things. As a former ‘CEO’ or ‘director’ of a ‘national trade association’, ‘peak professional institute’, several ‘peak industry bodies’, and a ‘group training scheme’, one would have thought that you understand how unions work and the contribution they make to the labour market, particularly in the area of training. Your answers are mostly taken verbatim from lib press releases. On education, you’ve rehashed lies and dodgy figures issued by the Ministers for DEST and DITR. You’re just a dickhead liberal party hack standing for one of the safest labor seats in the country. Thank God you’ve no chance of being elected.

It’s fine to casually split the infinitive. It’s a made-up rule only 100 years old, made up to frequently allow old schoolmasters an opportunity to harshly admonish young boys by using a cane to annoyingly whack their bottoms.

It’s not always good style though.

Absent Diane12:10 pm 08 Nov 07

cloning is rad. congrats troy on being succesfully cloned.

CanberraGreen12:05 pm 08 Nov 07

He may be an alien clone … He’s bloody everywhere at the moment and it’s not possible to go to a shopping centre or walk the streets without finding him canvassing for votes. Now I know why. There are multiple life forms identical in appearance to Troy.

Hey… come to think of it, Matty Ellis’ sidebar ad has him looking decidedly Coneheadic as well… WARNING: INVASION

Where is the split infinitive (and what is it?)

Heheh, yeah, I reckon he’s got a garotte in his hands as he’s posing in that photo, ready to choke the cameraman…

But I still think he looks like a Conehead. You’ll notice that the top of his cranium isn’t shown, probably for good reason. He’s not smiling either, because Coneheads have three rows of teeth.

Troy, you never have to hone your cone alone.

Anyone who looks like he should be starring in the Hitman movie……. will get my vote everytime.

“Mr Speaker, I’d like to respond to the opposition with *phFt phFt phFt* and as a further point of order, can he not bleed so profusely from the forehead while in the chamber.”

HAHAHA! “I agree, it is wrong to EVER split an infinitive.”

Seriously, even Henry Fowler thought there were times judicious use of the split infintive prevented prolix communication. I’m far more interested in his CV indicating Troy sprang, fully formed, into a CEO role but is too modest to shoot for PMship in his first term.

I agree, it is wrong to EVER split an infinitive.

And is it just me or does Troy look a little bit android-like in that photo? I can just imagine him turning his head robotically to face me and saying “I am not programmed to understand your emotion of ‘love’.”

Pedantic old curmudgeon that I am, I will never vote for anyone who splits infinitives.

Troy what I want from you is an assurance that you will build light rail from Gungahlin to the Airport CBD along the Majura Valley. Then on to Russell and Parliament House. Your Government is flushed with money and has promised billions for transport for SA. The track should be VFT capable. Are you attending the Lite Wail Coalitions Gungahlin forum next week?

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