Crace Roundabout

Anyone with half a brain would realise that if traffic is slow moving bumper to bumper, that moving some of the traffic from one lane to two for 20 metres to merge back into one is not going to improve the flow of traffic whatsoever, but create more traffic problems. The vast majority of Canberrans do not understand the rules of merging, how to use an indicator or what give way means. Anyone thinking they can use the 2nd lane and try and force someone on the other side to give way in that traffic is a moron.

Vegemite said :

Mothy said :

GBT said :

While there is nothing legally wrong with doing this, it isn’t helping anyone but yourself, to the detriment of others waiting. If you think this speeds up traffic flow as a whole you are delusional.

+1

Same for the bloody left hand lane on the GDE where the traffic can exit to Barton highway, but the lane continues on for 50 meters before a “Form One Lane”.

Asshats see the queue in the right hand lane, often all the way back to the lights at Mitchell, jump in the left lane, dash down to the merge point, and shove their nose back in the queue.

Drives me crazy, gains them so little.

Oh golly!!! I have been waiting for someone to post on this exact situation. I have been trying very hard not to lose my patience with the idiots who do this on Gungahlin Drive every morning…..

Keeping in the right hand lane on Gungahlin Drive actually does serve a purpose in the mornings as it keeps the lane clear for those people who are turning on to the Barton Highway towards the city. So the people who use the left hand lane to get ahead in the long line of traffic really are a bunch of impatient ass hats who need to learn the basics of waiting in a line, respect for others and some ettiquette for your fellow citizens who are all stuck going slow!!!

Those of you who get angry by this need to lighten up.

Both the left and right hand lanes can continue down the GDE. There isn’t a sign that says Left Lane City, Right Lane GDE. I don’t see the problem. The lane is there to be used. I find it stupid to see 50 cars in a line with a free lane next to them. Am I going to be car 51, or use the free lane as intended? No points for guessing.

Using two lanes to get traffic through the roundabout faster only works if the traffic is not banked up on the other side of the roundabout too.

Merging two lanes into one will reduce the rate of passage (cars passing a fixed point, per unit time) of traffic in the two lanes to about 1/3 the speed of the traffic in the single lane. Splitting one lane into two increases the rate of passage of vehicles by 2. So curiously enough, if you have a single lane that then splits into two, then merges back into one, guess what happens? That’s right! You get a net speed decrease of roughly 1/3 over exactly the same traffic staying single file.

If traffic in the single lane after the merge is travelling smoothly at 100km/h, you’ll see traffic in the double lanes travelling at about 40km/h, and traffic in the single lane before the split will be travelling smoothly at about 70km/h (to one significant digit).

So please, if the road is full of single file traffic before and after the roundabout, stay single file.

Vegemite said :

Oh golly!!! I have been waiting for someone to post on this exact situation. I have been trying very hard not to lose my patience with the idiots who do this on Gungahlin Drive every morning…..

Keeping in the right hand lane on Gungahlin Drive actually does serve a purpose in the mornings as it keeps the lane clear for those people who are turning on to the Barton Highway towards the city. So the people who use the left hand lane to get ahead in the long line of traffic really are a bunch of impatient ass hats who need to learn the basics of waiting in a line, respect for others and some ettiquette for your fellow citizens who are all stuck going slow!!!

So you have labelled others as idiots and impatient ass hats while asking for respect and etiquette from the same people you have just insulted. That’s brilliant, haha!

el said :

Except twice as many cars are able to enter and exit the roundabout each time there is a gap in traffic, so yes, it does speed up flow

Or, as is the case, there isn’t CAPACITY on the other side of the roundabout for that increased volume to pass THROUGH the roundabout – i.e. the stupid road goes back to one lane.

There is no need to wait for a “gap in the traffic” – beyond the courtesy of not queuing through across/through the intersection/roundabout – very few people come from Belconnen into Crace across the flow of traffic.

So any “gaps in the traffic” are just the opening up of space on the other side of the intersection. Getting in the left hand lane and overtaking maybe one car, just jams you into that space on the other side marginally quicker, and at the expense of the right hand lane traffic that your were, until the second lane opened up, sitting in, slowly crawling towards the roundabout, wondering why the line was moving so slow.

You aren’t solving the problem utilizing that lane. You ARE the problem.

Given what I have read here, I think it’s fair to say that I am a better driver than anyone anywhere ever. Bow to me and by shitty merging! MWAHAHA!

sepi said :

#34 – so if what you are doing causes traffic to slow, why keep doing it?

Based on the account given, that question would be better directed to the truck driver. grumpyrhonda’s only mistake was to assume competence on the part of others.

In an ideal world, people would see others using the empty lane, realise it saves time, and start doing it themselves. Eventually we will achieve equilibrium and, inevitably, nirvana.

Mothy said :

GBT said :

While there is nothing legally wrong with doing this, it isn’t helping anyone but yourself, to the detriment of others waiting. If you think this speeds up traffic flow as a whole you are delusional.

+1

Same for the bloody left hand lane on the GDE where the traffic can exit to Barton highway, but the lane continues on for 50 meters before a “Form One Lane”.

Asshats see the queue in the right hand lane, often all the way back to the lights at Mitchell, jump in the left lane, dash down to the merge point, and shove their nose back in the queue.

Drives me crazy, gains them so little.

Oh golly!!! I have been waiting for someone to post on this exact situation. I have been trying very hard not to lose my patience with the idiots who do this on Gungahlin Drive every morning…..

Keeping in the right hand lane on Gungahlin Drive actually does serve a purpose in the mornings as it keeps the lane clear for those people who are turning on to the Barton Highway towards the city. So the people who use the left hand lane to get ahead in the long line of traffic really are a bunch of impatient ass hats who need to learn the basics of waiting in a line, respect for others and some ettiquette for your fellow citizens who are all stuck going slow!!!

#34 – so if what you are doing causes traffic to slow, why keep doing it?

The Axe Man said :

Why don’t people realise that if you used both lanes until you had to then the queue would be shorter?
If you knew how to drive you’d realise that is should not slow you down 1 iota if someone is merging into your lane; especially when it’s slow moving traffic

I disagree with that one. The queue would be shorter if people used the road space available to merge properly. Doing it at the last possible minute isn’t the time to do that as it slows down the though line of traffic.

Keijidosha said :

I’m not sure who is responsible for the spate of short-sighted road developments in Canberra, but they should be publically flogged for their incompetence. The Crace roundabout is a nugget of failure atop the turd that is Gundaroo Drive.

Ironicly you will find one of the reasons it has two lanes is because they have thought for the future, for when the road might get duplicated. That’s not short sighted. Some of the early Gungahlin roundabouts (this isn’t one though) even have the approach lanes in place and covered with gravel.

georgesgenitals said :

Roundabouts are where you see another typical Canberra driving brainfart – queueing through and across intersections.

Give the man and his genitals a medal! It is a typical brain fart by drivers who are too moronic to use the lanes appropriately. They are dual lanes and not ‘an inside overtaking lane’. Try and use both lanes as designed and you’ll find that merging is easier as traffic flows more smoothly. Not like the flat bed truck who cut diagonally in front of me to try and stop me from getting a head of him. I wasn’t trying to get ahead, just to merge safely behind him. By the time he straightened out his rig from his pig headed and thoughtless actions it had delayed traffic. Go figure.

Roundabouts are where you see another typical Canberra driving brainfart – queueing through and across intersections.

It’s just the same argument in every post, we are……….

Wait for it……

Going around in circles!!

I’m not completely sure how using an intersection in the manner for which it was designed makes someone a wanker but hey, there you go. If someone’s too scared that other people will care whether they use the right lane when appropriately marked then more fool them.

If the gain someone achieves by utilising the unused capacity of a road is so insignificant, then necessarily so is the loss. Why then does it worry some people so much?

grumpyrhonda said :

Rollersk8r said :

Because it’s bloody rude and unecessary to use it as your own personal overtaking lane.quote]
That’s just it, Rollersk8r, I don’t understand why it is ‘bloody rude’ when I am using it for the purpose it was designed for. It’s not my fault that people are foolish and don’t use it and would rather line up single file for God knows how long.

I am not a traffic engineer but I would argue its intended purpose is not a very very short overtaking lane.

And as I said – it slows traffic down on the whole. Ever driven from Sydney to Coffs Harbour? Notice how everyone speeds up to 140kmh on the overtaking lane only to reach the end where traffic is doing 40kmh?? This is why they often close the overtaking lanes in peak periods – because merging slows traffic, full stop. This is what you are doing, just on a smaller scale.

GBT said :

While there is nothing legally wrong with doing this, it isn’t helping anyone but yourself, to the detriment of others waiting. If you think this speeds up traffic flow as a whole you are delusional.

+1

Same for the bloody left hand lane on the GDE where the traffic can exit to Barton highway, but the lane continues on for 50 meters before a “Form One Lane”.

Asshats see the queue in the right hand lane, often all the way back to the lights at Mitchell, jump in the left lane, dash down to the merge point, and shove their nose back in the queue.

Drives me crazy, gains them so little.

Except twice as many cars are able to enter and exit the roundabout each time there is a gap in traffic, so yes, it does speed up flow (unless of course people have such difficulty merging after the roundabout that traffic comes to a complete stop while still IN the roundabout, which isn’t out of the question given the ‘gifted’ nature of some drivers.)

Growling Ferret said :

Grumpyrhonda

I’m not a huge fan of the roundabout undertakers. You already have hundreds of cars in a queue, going nowhere. Its frustrating but orderly. Then someone decides to jump the queue to get a grand total of two spots further up and pisses off everyone else who is waiting patiently. Are you more important than everyone else?

I’m with you here, we all waiting on the outside lane for ages and wait for our turn, then some wanker at the back of the queue decided to take a shortcut on the inside. Is not Canberra people fault, but its the designer of that stupid round about.
How about putting RED LIGHT at the Barton Highway round about, that would be a better solution.

and whilst we are on the topic of merging, last time I checked pretty much every car manufacturer in the world now includes INDICATORS as standard features. When merging you are required by law to indicate your intention to merge. So folks… two lanes into one lane requires those in the left lane to use their RIGHT indicator (thats the one closest to the external ASH-TRAY) and those in the right hand lane get to use the LEFT indicator (thats the one closest to the make-up mirror ladies!!!)

I know it means Jack Sh*T to most of you out there but at least it lets me know that you have at least/maybe/potentially/remotely LOOKED before you swerve/merge

Depends on the roundabout, really. If there are a lot of people turning right and left then it will probably be faster for everyone if traffic uses both lanes. If the road is busy in two or three directions then it may allow two cars to get through the roundabout during a gap in traffic instead of just one. I’ve never really seen the point in clawing your way to the front one car at a time, though.

But GBT, and others, if you turn right at this intersection at Abena Avenue and Gundaroo Drive (travelling south) – and this thread was about that particular intersection – there is no where to go! This is a three-way intersection, not a four-way one (if you go right you only go back the way you came – or around in circles)!

I think we should live and let live: if people are using both lanes safely and courteously, and all within the law, we should all take a deep breath and calm down. We will all get to our destinations eventually.

I’ll try that again, with a bit of context this time:

luther_bendross said :

No it’s not. If it has an arrow for going straight and right, then its use is for going straight and right. Anyway I digest….

Good for you. Bon appetit.

Reply

It’s a grey line between polite orderliness and mindless stupidity.

If there are two lanes around the round-about logic would say that there are two equal lines of cars…. there I go, bringing logic into it.

If you want a whinge, try the cars that slow down as the come to merge with the traffic on the parkway. Logic says if you speed up to the same speed of the traffic on the road you should be able to merge safely without causing an accident. (There’s that logic thing again.)

bugmenot said :

It also happens at the roundabouts on Majura Ave out near Brand Depot.

However, people there seem to stick to the right lane, which enables the people to exit off to BD, or join in from that area.

It funny you mention the roundabout outside Brand Depot, cause it reminded me about a discussion that has already taken place HERE.

I don’t have any problem with people overtaking on the inside, or outside of roundabouts. The other lane is there for a reason. I believe traffic flows better if cars use both, then properly merge back when it becomes one lane again.

But this is Canberra. Who properly merges anymore?

While there is nothing legally wrong with doing this, it isn’t helping anyone but yourself, to the detriment of others waiting. If you think this speeds up traffic flow as a whole you are delusional. It doesn’t matter that the queue may seem shorter as there are two lanes, if they are all merging into a single lane it isn’t saving any time. Not only that but as people have trouble merging, it only serves to slow traffic.

I never said it was illegal, just that the intended reason for having two lanes merging back into one at a roundabout is so that in traffic people who actually want to use the roundabout are able.

But then screw it if it gets you to work 10 seconds earlier but makes everybody else later. That’s not your problem, is it/

luther_bendross said :

GBT said :

I can’t stand people using the inside lane to overtake. It is not, as you put it, its intended use. The intended use is for people who actually want to turn at a roundabout.

No it’s not. If it has an arrow for going straight and right, then its use is for going straight and right. Anyway I digest….

Agree, if it was for people turning right only, it would have an arrow showing you.

I don’t see a problem with what you are doing.

The one that annoys me is the light at the end of the Monaro Highway where there is one lane to go straight (in the direction of Majura Road) and a lane that goes to the turning lanes to the airport.

WHy do so many people get in the ‘airport lane’ and think that they are fast enough off the lights to get in front of everyone to go straight adn then change lanes. In the end hey either slow right down or stop adn block a lane so they can go straight.

Then they get upset when you lean on the horn.

To amke it worse a cop was driving through there the other day and a guy stopped to change lanes and blocked the traffic. The cop did nothing……

You’re doing everything correct, no need to change just because some people get their knickers in a knot.

I particularly like coming up to roadworks with a sign saying that 1 lane of a multiple lane road is closed and everyone merges into the one open lane leaving a few 100 metres of usable lane clear, right up to where the lane has witches hats to merge you across.

Why don’t people realise that if you used both lanes until you had to then the queue would be shorter?
If you knew how to drive you’d realise that is should not slow you down 1 iota if someone is merging into your lane; especially when it’s slow moving traffic

GBT said :

I can’t stand people using the inside lane to overtake. It is not, as you put it, its intended use. The intended use is for people who actually want to turn at a roundabout.

No it’s not. If it has an arrow for going straight and right, then its use is for going straight and right. Anyway I digest….

Unfortunately this isn’t the only roundabout in Canberra with this issue. I agree that Canberra drivers are mostly crap at merging, but look at the infrastructure. Gundaroo Dr and Majura Rd have the same crappy roundabouts when both should be dual lane in each direction. And the other one I love is the “Form 2 Lanes” signs in 80km/h zones, with no notice of which one of the outside lanes is about to merge. Those are downright dangerous for those who don’t know the roads, as are these roundabouts. I call for patience, as we’re all stuck with the same atrocious infrastructure brought on by shithouse forward planning.

I can’t stand people using the inside lane to overtake. It is not, as you put it, its intended use. The intended use is for people who actually want to turn at a roundabout. While it’s perfectly fine to use either lane while traffic is flowing, you really are just about a jerk switching lanes in order to get two car spaces ahead in a line of traffic.

As people have pointed out, some people are terrible at merging, and in jumping out and then forcing people to merge again, you are only slowing traffic down for everybody for the sake of saving yourself 5 seconds.

William Hovell 2 lanes to one lane and back to 2 lanes, every morning I feel it is a government created bottle neck to stop West Belconnen blocking up the gridlock interchange. If C-Crossing had a major upgrade to freeway status then 10%-20% of traffic would be bypassed between Belco and Woden/Tuggers.

Rollersk8r said :

Because it’s bloody rude and unecessary to use it as your own personal overtaking lane.quote]
That’s just it, Rollersk8r, I don’t understand why it is ‘bloody rude’ when I am using it for the purpose it was designed for. It’s not my fault that people are foolish and don’t use it and would rather line up single file for God knows how long.

Given the amount of practice Canberrans get at merging it still baffles me why so many people can’t grasp the concept…

My personal favourites are the people that get right to the point where merging is required before they start to have a look at what’s around them, only to come to a complete halt whilst they make their incredibily difficult merging decision.

Because it’s bloody rude and unecessary to use it as your own personal overtaking lane.

And, if you’d applied any logic to this, you’d realise that jumping out of line and forcing your way back in slows down the whole queue.

If you go from Ginniderra Dr out to Horse Park Dr there’s something like 9 roundabouts in a row. Aggressive a-holes therefore get 7 or 8 double-lane chances to cut you off and be 1 car ahead.

It absolutely should be a 2 lane road all the way from Barton Hwy through to Horse Park but that’s another issue…

Given that Canberrans are so rubbish at merging, does the splitting of lanes around roundabouts actually help traffic flow or does it just make people angry, as evidence by this thread?

The roundabouts between Canberra airport and Queanbeyan are the same and drivers seem to regard the inside lane as an opportunity to practice taking the ‘racing line’ in order to get one car length ahead. Brilliant.

Drive a large, powerful and old car. Merging lanes are for people destined to give way to you!

When the traffic is actually moving don’t use the inside lane because as mentioned people can’t seem to merge efficiently so everyone just comes to a stop because of 1 car. If the traffic is already at a stop then i think you are more justified using it.

It is definitely one of the triggers for aggressive drives out there who swerve across to block the spare lane when someone decides to ‘run the gauntlet’.

I think they build them like that to cut costs in the future for when they double lane up to the roundabout. In the mean time they should make the left lane a left turn only with no option to go straight maybe.

I’m not sure who is responsible for the spate of short-sighted road developments in Canberra, but they should be publically flogged for their incompetence. The Crace roundabout is a nugget of failure atop the turd that is Gundaroo Drive.

I always use the inside lane at the Abena Avenue/Gundaroo Drive intersection at Crace, when the outside lane is busy. That is, after all, what lanes are for – and it makes the queue of traffic behind you – between Abena Avenue and Nudurr Drive, that little bit shorter.

Use your indicators, change lanes safely, and keep the traffic flowing, that’s my motto!

Grumpyrhonda

I’m not a huge fan of the roundabout undertakers. You already have hundreds of cars in a queue, going nowhere. Its frustrating but orderly. Then someone decides to jump the queue to get a grand total of two spots further up and pisses off everyone else who is waiting patiently. Are you more important than everyone else?

I hate the Gungahlin Drive/Barton Highway merge – come off the highway, and merge at the end of the merging lane, not the start.

Its really not that hard.

I’m with you GrumpyRHonda … we have lanes there for a reason. If people are unable/unwilling to merge when two lanes turn into one that’s not my problem.

Indeed, a very good way to make movement through Sydney traffic slightly less painful is to use the inside lanes that are, more often than not, virtually empty.

The new four lane section of the Hume has to be seen to be believed, haha. Madness! God forbid anyone should actually use the two new inside lanes that have just been added. Imagine the social stigma if someone saw you in those “slow” lanes?!

It also happens at the roundabouts on Majura Ave out near Brand Depot.

However, people there seem to stick to the right lane, which enables the people to exit off to BD, or join in from that area.

Whilst I would normally agree that splitting to two lanes will help, perhaps you haven’t noticed that Canberra drivers are woeful at merging. It (splitting and rejoining) would only lead to a significant choke-point that will just slow everything down more.